45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

KYpatriot

KYpatriot

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Mar 31, 2009
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#1
FGMM brass w/ CCI BR2 in a Rem 5r. Not detecting any pressure signs at all. Has anyone run this? Grouped well w/ it during load development but stopped there. Ran 44 to 45.8 in the test.
Anyway, 44.5 and 45 grouped well, and 44.7 reasonable as well. So will shoot those three again. Just curiuos what kind of pressure/velocity the 45.8 load would be at...
 
#2
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

I get 2750 from 44.5 gr Varget with a 26" factory Savage barrel -- but I've discovered that with that much powder, it is keeping me from consistently seating the bullet deep enough to keep it from getting stuck in the lands (nothing like opening the bolt and scattering powder all over inside your action, and having to break out the cleaning rod to knock the bullet out of the lands). I also occasionally will get pressure signs due to the extra pressure from jamming (took me way longer than it should have to diagnose this.. going to be working a new load soon because of it).

If your chamber has more freebore than mine, it may not be an issue for you.
 
#3
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

Try a drop tube when charging cases, I use it when loading .223 with 80gr pills. A Forster Blue Ribbon Powder Funnel with Long Drop Tube works for me.
 
#5
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jBishop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try a drop tube when charging cases, I use it when loading .223 with 80gr pills. A Forster Blue Ribbon Powder Funnel with Long Drop Tube works for me.</div></div>

Out of curiosity, how long is your drop tube? mine's like 6" and not doing the job.
 
#8
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

I run 44.5 grains of Varget with 178 grain AMAXs and 45 grains with 175 grain MatchKings. Groups tend to open up north of either of those loads and I'm at least half a grain from max with each bullet. I'm using Winchester brass in a Remington AAC-SD with a really long throat.

I have a .22-250 that I run a full grain above book max using benchmark (no excessive pressure signs). That rifle has a roomy chamber and a long throat. I seat to just off the lands for that rifle and am on my sixth firing with some R&P cases. Primers pockets are fine.

My .264 win mag hits its max charge about a grain below listed max.

My experience has been to let the rifle tell you where it's max load is for any given combination. Watch for excessive pressure signs and work up to your max very carefully.
 
#9
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mattj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jBishop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try a drop tube when charging cases, I use it when loading .223 with 80gr pills. A Forster Blue Ribbon Powder Funnel with Long Drop Tube works for me.</div></div>

Out of curiosity, how long is your drop tube? mine's like 6" and not doing the job. </div></div>

I use a 12" for some of my loads, especially H4895 in 6x45. Ever tried to stuff 27gr of that in a 223 sized case
grin.gif
Another trick that works is to charge all the cases, turn on your vibratory tumbler, and hold them one at a time against the side. Be sure to put your finger over the case mouth or the powder will jump out.
 
#10
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

It may sound hot but there are no signs of pressure in my rifle. I have heard that you may get signs of pressure with less powder due to the way the powder lays when the gun is being shot. The spark of the primer runs over the top of the powder igniting a larger surface area at one time. Either way, its a one holer load at 100 yards and it works for me. Each gun is different so work your load up safely.
 
#14
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

That sounds way hot. How long do your primer pockets last with this load? I am near the max with 44.8 RL 15 with Lapua brass, 175 smk, Fed 210m primer and melonited barrel. I get 2790 fps with this on a 27" barrel.
 
#16
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

This is a good post. Timely.

I'm doing some load development w/ 175s, Rem 700 PSS with a 26" barrel, suppressed, at 44 grains of Varget I'm only getting 2678 fps with 10 fps SD.
Grouping is about a 1/2 MOA.

44.5 is okay, a little faster, SD opened up more. 14

45 grains gets me to 2750 and the bolt's sticky on a few rounds. SD opens up to
29.

Resized, annealed cases, back to the loading bench, back to the range.
 
#17
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

I think I went up to 45.4 doing my last OCW test. No pressure signs. I'm not surprised you aren't getting any at 45.8.
 
#18
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

Wow that's a rocken load. I run 43.5 with 168's.

One thing I have learned loading over the years. Running on the edge of charge weights is rarely a problem until something changes. But when you shoot on that really hot day or get a warm lot of primers, it bites you in the ass to remind you.
 
#19
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

I am using 46.0 grains of varget under a 168 Nosler CC, with CCI LR primers, while at or over book max, I have at least 8 loadings on a group of winchester cases, they have been full length resized only twice in that time, usually just neck size, and am not set up to anneal. Still have pretty good primer pockets with that load.
I am shooting these out of a 10pc savage, 20" 5r, the run about 2675 average fps
 
#21
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

The Remington is a factory chamber, so it might have room for that much powder, but I am a little suspect. Federal brass is thick. Winny brass + a factory chamber leads to a little more room, but Federal?

I would like to see some pictures of your fired case heads. I can't imagine that there are no ejector marks with a load that stout. Don't expect to read pressure signs in CCI primers. Those are hard cups and pretty resistant to pressure. In other words, the pressure is there and you can't see it.
 
#22
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

I shoot in a local match on sunday, I will try to get a couple pics of my spent cases and primers for you. Varget is a great powder because it is not as tempurature sensative as others. It seems to be consistent. I have yet to hear of anyone with pressure issues while using it. You would have to be going to an extreme from what I have seen.
 
#23
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

Wow.

Using Fed and LC and FA cases (near-identical measured case capacities, I was getting pressure signs with 46.0 Varget and *155* A-Maxes.

And that was the best accuracy with any 155, but still not great.

Then I bought QuickLOAD and tweaking the powder values to match my velocity (about 2810 out of a 22-inch barrel) showed predicted overpressures consistent with one report I've seen which says "pressure signs" don't show up until you're north of 70,000 PSI or so.

If your more spacious case capacities allow those speeds within spec, then good for you. Now, I'm convinced that the most reliable "pressure sign" is velocity, when barrel length and case capacity are ALSO factored in.

And I believe QuickLOAD because I ran it with some loads from a published report of MANY .308 loads which included both chamber pressures and port pressures 14.125" from the boltface. QuickLOAD predicted to within 1,000 PSI, and often closer, to what was actually measured.
 
#24
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flynlow3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am running 45.8gr of Varget behind a 175smk in my 5R. No pressure signs. I am shooting 3/4" groups at 300 yards with this load. My COAL is 2.855
</div></div>
You should be shooting professionally then. 3 or 5 shots @300yds? Id I ran that much in my SPSS my bolt would stick shut.
 
#25
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

3 shots. I was told the same thing. I have shot all my life, Just never competitivly till this week. I am learning. I have a mentor who is the best in the area and I have already outshot him. I just dont know what I am doing yet. I just know I can get behind the gun and get results. There is a lot more than that to it though.
 
#26
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

My 24" 5r loves 44.7gr Varget with 178 A-max/175 SMK, FGMM brass wolf primer, 5 shots 1/2 inch 2800 fps
 
#27
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

[img:center]
group.jpg
[/img]

These are both 3 shot groups. the one holer is at 100 yards and my other is at 300 yrds. Its not my best, Just what I did this weekend at 300 yrds.

I also have a .223 in 5R I am setting up. So far, it seems very promising.
 
#28
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

I have a remington 700 sps-v with a 26" tube 1:12 twist. A load that worked well for me was 45.5gr of varget with 168gr HPBT SMK's at about 2750fps. Im currently working up a load for my 178gr hornady A-max. Im up to 44gr and 44.5 gr with lapua brass fed210 primers and bullets seated at 2.830". 43.5 gr of varget with the 178's was shooting great groups and an avg of 2612 fps (only got 3 shots cuz my chrony errored on the last 2). Just figured i would walk on up and see how that works out for me. If i can get faster fps and keep similar groups as the 43.5gr batch then i will have an excellent load. I also had a load that at 100yds that would shoot through the same hole but it just felt too slow in fps to me. It was 168gr Hornady A-max with 42.5gr of RL-15 seated at 2.818" pushing 2580fps. STD was horrible at 50fps but for some reason could shoot same hole at 100yds.
 
#29
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

I've been running 45.5 Varget and 175smk thru my Savage 10FP for the last ~3k rounds or so.

Lapua brass has held up to 6 or 7 hits so far. Pockets went from tight to not tight, to pretty loose in 3-4 hits, but still take a primer and don't leak, so they're still in service.

I get a faint ejector mark about once out of every 10-15 cartridges. If I bump up to 46gr, I get a mark every other shot.

I validated this load on a sunny 95° day, by letting the cartridges soak in the sun for an hour before shooting. Velocity went DOWN, not up.

Gotta be real careful to be sure the chamber and brass is squeaky clean. A bit of oil, caselube or even water will produce serious brass flow into the ejector hole, and ruin the case.
 
#30
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been running 45.5 Varget and 175smk thru my Savage 10FP for the last ~3k rounds or so.</div></div>

What kind of velocity are you getting with your Savage? What is the barrel length?

Thanks.
 
#31
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: normbal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been running 45.5 Varget and 175smk thru my Savage 10FP for the last ~3k rounds or so.</div></div>

What kind of velocity are you getting with your Savage? What is the barrel length?

Thanks. </div></div>

24" tube. Not 100% sure on velocity, but I believe ~2675. I clocked them between 2660 and 2685 depending on whether with my CED M2. But, that NEVER correlated with my needed scope settings. I was always WAY higher than JBM between 350-700 yards, where it began to converge. JBM was slightly high at 1000. To get JBM to jive, I needed to input 2825...but then JBM would be low at 1000.

Two months ago, I tested tracking on my scope (SB PM-II) and it failed...POI was 2moa too high by the time I had 10moa dialed - but remained 2moa high all the way to 66. Bender was not able to fully reproduce the phenomenon, even though I verified my test 4 or 5 times. They did find it to be "out of tolerance" though and fixed it.

Meanwhile, my chrono clocks my partner at 2655, and JBM jives nearly perfect with that...

...so... My best guess is my chrono is correct, and 45.5gr Varget and a 175smk in Lapua brass in my 24" Savage 10FP goes ~2675.

Sorry for the long winded answer!
 
#32
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: normbal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been running 45.5 Varget and 175smk thru my Savage 10FP for the last ~3k rounds or so.</div></div>

What kind of velocity are you getting with your Savage? What is the barrel length?

Thanks. </div></div>

...so... My best guess is my chrono is correct, and 45.5gr Varget and a 175smk in Lapua brass in my 24" Savage 10FP goes ~2675.

Sorry for the long winded answer!</div></div>

That's helpful. I'm getting somewhere around that with a 26" barrel and about 44.4 grains right now, but I've also got a second set of numbers that were - consistently - lower from another day. Same gun, load, chronograph.

Just made up another set of rounds, off to the range Monday.
 
#34
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cropins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What twist are most of you guys running? Any gas guns? </div></div>

In my case, the Rem 700 PSS DM in .308 is a 1 in 12 twist.

Once I get a decent/accurate load figured out, I'll try it out in an LTR and then a DPMS REPR. I'm trying to find a home load that's very close to factory in gun to gun functioning but a little faster than FGMM factory loading (2600 FPS according to Federal's website). I'd like to get around 2700-2750 which I think is doable from what I'm seeing posted here and elsewhere on the web using H-Varget.
 
#35
Re: 45.8 Varget in a 308 w/ 175 SMK

Well, I went out and shot today. I worked up the load in fed. cases because I have a lot of brass in it. It worked up to 45.8g's of varget were it hit the sweet spot again and was spot on. Never had a sticky bolt and my primers looked perfect. I will try to get pictures up for the skeptics.

according to my buddy's I phone ballistics, I am pushing the 175gr pill out of a 24" barrel at 2715+ FPS
 
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