4Dof app vs 4Dof on website.

[A&8's]

There has been a lot of people talking, recently, about Hornady's 4Dof app not working correctly. I agree. This past weekend I attended @lowlight 's PR class in Colorado. We gathered hard data out to 1425y and at the end of the day, back at the hotel, I (along with @Jack Master ) spent several hours trying to align our apps with the data we collected earlier in the day. Personally, I never could get mine to line up correctly. @Jack Master did figure out a 'hack' to get all of his to align out to distance.

Today I decided to plug my numbers into the calc on Horandy's website. Low and behold, the numbers line up almost exactly to the hard data gathered. I say almost, meaning from 200y to 1125y they are spot on. However, at 1250 and 1425 the cal showed .3 and .4 higher than actual. However, considering the 14-16mph winds we shot in, I'll call that good enough for a free program (most likely the calc is right and I error on the trigger.)

One thing I did notice is, on the site cal, I had to enter my actual altitude, along with all the other environments. Whereas on the app, regardless of 0 or actual altitude entered, the app was way off. On the app, I could get 0-600 to line up, but above 600 went all to hell. OR I could get the top half to line up, but the bottom half went to hell.

Hopefully, someone from Hornady reads this and fixes the app. While hard data is, obviously, the fool proof method, having an app on hand sure is convenient.

Also, Hornady, please add the option of the end user inputting DA.

 

[Lowlight]

That was the weirdest part,

It was showing station or absolute pressure along with Altitude included on the App. We tried manually putting in the information into the app, but it appears to be messing up.,

Ted ended up making his zero range 600 yards and locking in the data with the zero angle or something new they added and he said that works. His data was good to 1 Mile from that point forward.

The updated happened recently, and I think they broke the weather for sure and adding in Earth-Based Effects and SD without the ability to turn it off has messed the wind-up. We had guys believing they had 7 MPH rifles because the App was adding in a bunch of extra adjustments

 

[Jack Master]

Here was how I "hacked" it

1. "edit your rifle Data" - Rather than using zero range hit the toggle to use zero angle.​

2. go through the zero angle inputs, put your zero range to 600yds and at the bottom input the inches of drop (mine was -72 for 3.3 mills of elevation at 600 we had verified that day)​

3. check your 600 yard drop on the front page (set wind to zero degrees, set wind speed to zero)​

4. adjust your negative drop value in the zero angle input until your 600 yd matches up. (3.3 mils for me)​

5. on the front page enter the distance you want to edit your form factor for​

5a. edit the rifle data and adjust the form factor to your dope. I used 1250 yards​

6. re-check your 600 yard come-up, and adjust inches of drop in the zero angle as needed to get back to your trued dope at 600​

7. again adjust the form factor for 1200 yards.​

8. If you have it, double check you verified dope to see if it lines up.​

I liked doing it this way and I might continue to use this, here is why.

1. The program now knows 3 points. First is zero yards is 0 come-up (or your sight over bore height). Second is my 600 yard drop. third is my 1200 yard drop. This allows the program to draw perfect arc. It takes 3 point to draw an arc or arching shape, I just gave it the start, center and end, I know have a great extrapolation of the extended arc.​

2. Using my actual measured velocity of my round made this really close. I can measure me velocity from a cronogragh, adjust 600 and 1200 and be really close. you might not need to drop your velocity 100fps in the app because you are telling it the 3 arc places. If you cannot get the form factor at 1200 to line up, you'll need to reduce your velocity.​

3. When I changed my environment my 600yd zero angle drop changed with it, perfectly. (Colorado was 3.3, Iowa is 3.5, it did this) I didn't expect this to work... but it did.​

4. of the information that was off a tenth or 2 was inside 600. after 600 was spot on. a tenth or 2 inside 600 can be easily handled by target width, outside 600 its much more critical.​

5. Higher end programs do this exact thing. They allow you to input 2 or 3 ranges and thier exact drops, this draws the best arc.​

6. The only down fall is you need to have actual 600yd and 1200yd dope.​

7. 4DoF is Free, and I can MAKE it work.​

 

[Long Range 338]

Hornady has an update on IOS available today. It fixed some issues I was having in the HUD, no idea if it fixed the issues in the ballistics engine.

 

[A&8's]

Hornady has an update on IOS available today. It fixed some issues I was having in the HUD, no idea if it fixed the issues in the ballistics engine.

Where did you see this? What version is it? My current IOS version is 226. According to my notifications, except new bullets added (A tips and 22LR), the most recent update to the system was on 17 Dec '18, which was "MultiHUD."

 

[LoneWolf_052713]

I'm interested to know if the Kestrel version is holding true or experiencing similar issues? I tried the app for a bit, but found GeoBallistics to continue to be a better option and I was testing both utilizing the weatherflow meter.

 

[Long Range 338]

Where did you see this? What version is it? My current IOS version is 226. According to my notifications, except new bullets added (A tips and 22LR), the most recent update to the system was on 17 Dec '18, which was "MultiHUD."

It comes up in the App Store notifications..... Another update today as well (version 2019.1009.230)

 

[Long Range 338]

Ran a test profile on both 4DOF app and online 4DOF with the same inputs. Off just slightly like .04 mils at 2k yards so it looks like they have them jiving again.

 

[seansmd]

That was the weirdest part,

It was showing station or absolute pressure along with Altitude included on the App. We tried manually putting in the information into the app, but it appears to be messing up.,

Ted ended up making his zero range 600 yards and locking in the data with the zero angle or something new they added and he said that works. His data was good to 1 Mile from that point forward.

The updated happened recently, and I think they broke the weather for sure and adding in Earth-Based Effects and SD without the ability to turn it off has messed the wind-up. We had guys believing they had 7 MPH rifles because the App was adding in a bunch of extra adjustments

@lowlight yeah I showed that to you on the flight up to Alaska a few months back, the sliders on environmental data are messed up in the app. If you set the pressure then the altitude the altitude will change the pressure, you then can go and override the pressure and it doesn't change the altitude, a bit confusing for me if it is correct.

There was flight cocktails involved so I forgot until the podcast and this thread.

 

[A&8's]

Ran a test profile on both 4DOF app and online 4DOF with the same inputs. Off just slightly like .04 mils at 2k yards so it looks like they have them jiving again.

I ran both this am and got some weird numbers. From 600y to 1500y the numbers flip-flopped being .3 under, then 100y farther .3 over, then 100y later back to .3 under. It followed this pattern until 1600y where it lined up to the .01.

?‍

 

[rio177]

So l just got back from 3 days at EMRTC in Socorro NM where Dave Emery is now working after retiring from Hornady. Long range ballistics course running 4DOF. There is nothing wrong with the program itself. You have to meticulous with the data input. You need to a good 5 shot zero group then measure all five shots center of hole to center POA verically. Write them down and take the average and save that number. Get a good MV. We Chrono'd at muzzle and then used dopler radar to verify MV and retained MV at 1000y. Once that is done you have to enter those and then edit rifle info and activate "use zero angle". Once done enter in form factor. Most projectiles will be between 1.0 and 1.08. This function is really all we used to get the data collected to line up. *** Once you input all the data and conditions for zeroing do not change it so screen shot or write it down. if you change the initial zero conditions it will show errors. Also, when pairing to hardware for atmospheric updates, collect it then turn that funtion off. I found if there was other BT transmitting it will pair itself to whichever is closest. ld turn off my Kestrel 5700 but was picking up one of the other guys Kestrel in his bag which was trans atmospherics in there and jacking up my data. That was about the only real issue l had with it once l left the zero inputs alone. It tracked spot on out to a mile and was making 2nd round hits out to 1680 on 12" targets with mk316/ab39 out of my issue Shorty OBR.

 

[Long Range 338]

The issue was with an update and was remedied in the next update. It was a great showing of why having a hard copy of your data is so important, total reliance on electronics is bound to bite you in the ass at some point. 4DOF has always been very useful and accurate app from my experience (except during the error in the update).

Sounds like you had an excellent class and 4DOF worked very well for you. Glad to hear it as it is one of my go to apps.

 

[Lowlight]

correct tney broke it with an update and it was fixed we even called Hornady and spoke to Jaden about it

you don't need to defend it or act like we are lying

your 30 seconds of experience means nothing

it's a very good app but shit happens

 

[Jack Master]

and then used dopler radar to verify MV and retained MV at 1000y. O

How many people have the ability to do this!? Maybe 1% of shooters? Most joe-shmoes certainly are not doing this. Most of us have to make the app work with out the fancy stuff.
Its a great app. I still, use it a lot. It was just broken for a bit.

 

[rio177]

I certainly wouldn't if not for the class. The other way is to do all the steps with input and then shoot paper at 1000y and adjust the axial form factor till it matches the correction.

 

[LastShot300]

The real values lies in the radar data. The engine is just another PM and the app itself needs a lot of polishing.