4DOF changed

[Bigwheels]

I trued both FFS & 4DOF last fall at the same time. Both have been accurate out to a mile but lately the 4DOF app has been predicting a flatter trajectory (like .5mil) & FFS is still the accurate one. I have triple & quadruple checked all my inputs & they are the same as before. Did 4DOF update again & screw itself up again?
I like the app but have lost confidence in it now.
Anyone else see this?

 

[JMGlasgow]

So are your impacts high at distance?

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

Are all your data points correct?
do you have powder temp stability on?

 

[Bigwheels]

The 4DOF app is calling for dope up to .5mil lower than actual. FFS is still spot on. No I don't use powder temp on either system.
I've changed nothing in the app & have gone through every setting a few times. I've found nothing changed in the app.

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

What distance are you shooting?
shooting in the same direction, and adjusted your shooting angles etc?
they may have just updated their database, and you need to adjust your axial form factor.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

4DOF is OK for people to get thier feet wet with a ballistic app because it is free...and when it works, it works pretty well. When it doesn't, it is shit.

You have way too much shooting experience to keep fucking around with 4DOF. (Especially since FFS is your primary)

If you want another app for cross checking, then get Strelok Pro for $11 and be done with it.

 

[LastShot300]

4DOF is OK for people to get thier feet wet with a ballistic app because it is free...and when it works, it works pretty well. When it doesn't, it is shit.

You have way too much shooting experience to keep fucking around with 4DOF. (Especially since FFS is your primary)

If you want another app for cross checking, then get Strelok Pro for $11 and be done with it.

Good call, for ELR work nothing beats FFS or CB.

 

[A&8's]

Anyone else see this?

Actually, just the opposite. I was having about 3 kinds of hell last fall getting 4dof to line up (this was during one of Frank's classes in Co, along with another hide member. There's a thread someone on here about it.) So much problem, I said to hell with it and focused all winter on working off hard data. Since things have opened up a bit and they're starting to run locals matches recently, I have wrote my match data off my hard dope during the match. The last 2 matches, when I got home and wrote in my log, out of curiosity, I compared my days data with 4dof. Much to my surprise, everything line up perfectly. Granted, this is only out to 1K, but by comparison to last fall where I was .5 - 1.25mil different. I didn't do anything different with my inputs from last fall, so it had to be an auto update in the app. Either way, it's working perfect now.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Ive been a strelok pro and trasol guy for quite some time. Just recently have the 4dof kestrel a try. To my surprise and great pleasure, it has been super accurate for me. If your bullet is in the library, its been great. For anything not in the library, i default back to strelok pro. That is always my backup and has never let me down. If i hit the lotto, im going to have a strelok pro weather meter made. I guess i should start buying lotto tickets.

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

Ive been a strelok pro and trasol guy for quite some time. Just recently have the 4dof kestrel a try. To my surprise and great pleasure, it has been super accurate for me. If your bullet is in the library, its been great. For anything not in the library, i default back to strelok pro. That is always my backup and has never let me down. If i hit the lotto, im going to have a strelok pro weather meter made. I guess i should start buying lotto tickets.

It is a shock to me that the 338 ATIPS are not in the library, WTF?

 

[BLKWLFK9]

It is a shock to me that the 338 ATIPS are not in the library, WTF?

True. I wouldnt know. i dont have a .338. One would think that all of their bullets would be in there.

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

True. I wouldnt know. i dont have a .338. One would think that all of their bullets would be in there.

Yeah its shocking, I wish I could find 4dofs email to contact them about this. The ullets have been out for awhile.

 

[Bigwheels]

My bullet is the 225 ELDM so its in the database. It used to be spot on with elevation but not too sure about windage. Also a few weeks ago I found its angle fire solutions to be suspect. Recently I see that the solutions at 0* are different. My go to has always been FFS & was using 4DOF as a backup. But now at elr ranges its usually way off.

 

[david8989]

I haven't seen any change in my 4DOF solutions over the last 6 weeks. All spot on out to 1100yds. I also whole heartedly disagree that 4dof is for beginners only. There are more than a few top PRS competitors that use 4dof religiously. I couldn't tell you why it is but some ballistic apps just work better for some rifles than others and there isn't any making sense of it any other way.

 

[flyright]

I agree with david8989 that there are some rifles that just don't seem to line up with some apps. 4DOF has been spot on for me. I used it 600 to 1400 yards this past weekend in some varying weather conditions and the solutions were better than my friend's AB and SL numbers. They were impressed with its numbers for 4 different rifles. JMHO

 

[cheyennewyo]

I have had similar issues with 4DOF from time to time. However, my biggest issue is that it crashes a lot on my phone and I can't really trust it to be there when I need it. I really like SL.

 

[kindabitey]

Ive been a strelok pro and trasol guy for quite some time. Just recently have the 4dof kestrel a try. To my surprise and great pleasure, it has been super accurate for me. If your bullet is in the library, its been great. For anything not in the library, i default back to strelok pro. That is always my backup and has never let me down. If i hit the lotto, im going to have a strelok pro weather meter made. I guess i should start buying lotto tickets.

I think the key to this is Hornady's bullet library. If the bullet you're using is in there, it works great, if it isn't, not so much. I keep getting conflicting info in the app and 4dof kestrel.

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

I have had similar issues with 4DOF from time to time. However, my biggest issue is that it crashes a lot on my phone and I can't really trust it to be there when I need it. I really like SL.

So I noticed mine did this IF I had something plugged into the headphone jack. Like my Magneto speed adapter... As soon as I take it out, no issues. Not sure if it will help at all but figured I would bring it up. =)

 

[Bigwheels]

I have Strelok pro as well as AB & Shooter. My go too has always been FFS but I've been dabbling in the others for some time. I thought 4DOF was doing very well after truing but since then I have seen it gradually get worse. A few weeks ago I posted in the angle fire thread that it was way off using an angle & last weekend I was shooting at 0* to -1* angle & at 1440 yds it was .5 mil low. FFS has been within a few inches of elevation since I trued it. Its just weird that it was working great for a while & now its not. Glad I don't have to rely on my phone for dope. Seems that apps just aren't reliable.

 

[cheyennewyo]

So I noticed mine did this IF I had something plugged into the headphone jack. Like my Magneto speed adapter... As soon as I take it out, no issues. Not sure if it will help at all but figured I would bring it up. =)

I hadn't thought about that before. I do everything through bluetooth, but I wonder if it is the same issue. I will mess with that this weekend and see.

 

[LastShot300]

I have Strelok pro as well as AB & Shooter. My go too has always been FFS but I've been dabbling in the others for some time. I thought 4DOF was doing very well after truing but since then I have seen it gradually get worse. A few weeks ago I posted in the angle fire thread that it was way off using an angle & last weekend I was shooting at 0* to -1* angle & at 1440 yds it was .5 mil low. FFS has been within a few inches of elevation since I trued it. Its just weird that it was working great for a while & now its not. Glad I don't have to rely on my phone for dope. Seems that apps just aren't reliable.

Since THEIS announced Genesis coming up this year, running on top of Patagonia's engine, I'm just looking forward to its roll-out, anyway CB on my Nokia is almost perfect but that tech is dying so Android has to be the next platform to run this very accurate engine.

 

[Bigwheels]

I borrowed a buddies CB to try on a PDA for a while. Generally I liked it & was pretty accurate given that I only did some rough truing with it. My only real complaint was the 5yd increment built in. I prefer to enter the exact range & not have to split differences. I also tried Trasol for a while but it never worked right. Never saved any changes & now its gone for Droid. I may try it again if/when its released for Droid but I'm not holding my breath...

 

[LastShot300]

I borrowed a buddies CB to try on a PDA for a while. Generally I liked it & was pretty accurate given that I only did some rough truing with it. My only real complaint was the 5yd increment built in. I prefer to enter the exact range & not have to split differences. I also tried Trasol for a while but it never worked right. Never saved any changes & now its gone for Droid. I may try it again if/when its released for Droid but I'm not holding my breath...

Think about this, what's the largest difference between your actual yardage and CB? 2.5 yards or less. Hardly a difference to lose your sleep over. In terms of accuracy I found it to be the best one around (without any truing which speaks volumes about its engine) followed closely by FFS. IMHO 1 yards increments are good for nothing, because such apparent exactness is not happening in the real world, for instance what's the measurement error of even the best LRF? Way over 3 yards when going the distance and we still call them good. Trasol is another story, excellent engine coupled to a disastrous app which never worked.

 

[Bigwheels]

True. Just a peeve of mine. And if I had to buy a new solver I just might get CB but since I'm still running FFS Delta 3 on my 3rd or 4th cheap pda & its still working I doubt I'll need to any time soon. I'm very happy with FFS but I've been toying with the idea of upgrading to the latest version or making the switch to CB. Haven't had a need so haven't spent the $$. So far FFS is the only one that I have complete confidence in to provide me with accurate dope out to a mile from below freezing at sea level to 100* at 10k ft.

 

[LastShot300]

True. Just a peeve of mine. And if I had to buy a new solver I just might get CB but since I'm still running FFS Delta 3 on my 3rd or 4th cheap pda & its still working I doubt I'll need to any time soon. I'm very happy with FFS but I've been toying with the idea of upgrading to the latest version or making the switch to CB. Haven't had a need so haven't spent the $$. So far FFS is the only one that I have complete confidence in to provide me with accurate dope out to a mile from below freezing at sea level to 100* at 10k ft.

Ye sir, FFS rocks.

 

[Bigwheels]

Just for grins I tried to open 4DOF today but it wanted me to sign in. Wouldn't accept my password. Last straw. Deleted it. Too bad. Like Trasol I think it had potential.

 

[Shootin Stuff]

Just for grins I tried to open 4DOF today but it wanted me to sign in. Wouldn't accept my password. Last straw. Deleted it. Too bad. Like Trasol I think it had potential.

I just opened mine and no issues whatsoever, I have switched off its ability to connect/update though and all of my “favourites” are still there on an effectively isolated app.

 

[Howland]

I'm still waiting for Hornady to add their own .338 300 gr. A-Tip to 4DoF. It's been out for some time. If they've got enough data to publish a BC, it should be added to the app.

It'll probably be in the ABS library sooner.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I think @THEIS 's solver is going to be some next level shit, from what he and I have talked about it.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Luckily the new Alpha One Ballistics App from Genesis Ballistics Solutions does not have much of my personal doings, lolololol

The old saying of "Surround yourself with people smarter than yourself" is the soul of the upcoming app development for sure.

Gus Ruiz from Patagonia Ballistics has to get all the credit for what is coming to market from us.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Bigwheels]

Ok. Whats this app?^^
I Google it & nothing.
Release date?
More info please.

 

[LastShot300]

The most important feature I'd like to have in this new app, is the engine of CB. Is that a fact or is the new app relying on a simple point mass?

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

@Bigwheels
Alpha One is currently in development stage. Should be to the market later this year.

An additional programmer was brought on last week in hopes to knock the Time To Market down from 6 months to 4 months BUT that is not a date I am holding firm.

The CB Engine is over 20k lines of code that have to be interfaced with features, user interface, android requirements, apple requirements, yada yada (Above my knowledge level)

Engine will be the same Engine of CB but the app will be feature rich and easy for android and apple users.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Bigwheels]

Thanks. I will have a look at it when it comes out.

 

[MCHOG]

Gus Ruiz from Patagonia Ballistics has to get all the credit for what is coming to market from us.

Patagonia Balllistics .... if this essentially brings ColdBore to my iPhone, it will be worth every penny of whatever it will cost.

 

[THEIS]

Patagonia Balllistics .... if this essentially brings ColdBore to my iPhone, it will be worth every penny of whatever it will cost.

Hi,

Bringing ColdBore and More to android and apple......

Genesis Ballistics Solutions is a joint venture company between Hoplite Arms and Patagonia Ballistics, .
Gus at Patagonia is handling the programmers and such as I type this.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[VanJoe]

Hi,

@Bigwheels
Alpha One is currently in development stage. Should be to the market later this year.

An additional programmer was brought on last week in hopes to knock the Time To Market down from 6 months to 4 months BUT that is not a date I am holding firm.

The CB Engine is over 20k lines of code that have to be interfaced with features, user interface, android requirements, apple requirements, yada yada (Above my knowledge level)

Engine will be the same Engine of CB but the app will be feature rich and easy for android and apple users.

Sincerely,
Theis

The other thread on here mentioned you were doing Android first. Could you confirm it will run on the tablet version too and not just phones? I have an Android tablet and then an iPhone. There are some apps I go to install in the tablet and the playstore will give a message saying the app isn't designed for my device. Some will download some won't. Could also be the the version level too.

Thanks.

 

[FourT6and2]

Playing around with 4DOF app, all the solutions seem to be about .4-.5 mil flatter as well, compared to tried and trued solutions in TRASOL.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

We are working hard at being able to launch Android and Apple at same time to make both Parties happy.

I will forward comment in regards to tablet over to Gus!!

Thank you for bringing that up.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[VanJoe]

Hi,

We are working hard at being able to launch Android and Apple at same time to make both Parties happy.

I will forward comment in regards to tablet over to Gus!!

Thank you for bringing that up.

Sincerely,
Theis

Thanks, it would be cool to be able to use it on a tablet. Plus you could sell me one on Android and one on Apple that way

 

[BoltActionBrotherhood]

I'm still waiting for Hornady to add their own .338 300 gr. A-Tip to 4DoF. It's been out for some time. If they've got enough data to publish a BC, it should be added to the app.

It'll probably be in the ABS library sooner.

The atip is in the 4dof app now! =)

 

[3of30]

I cannot get my 4DOF to line either now. Works well when trued under 900 yards. Anything past 1000 it seems to fall apart. I've triple checked all my numbers, all the solutions are .5 mil high roughly. Even with an axial form factor of .90 it will not line up. AB app seems to be on point out to 1300 yards so far.

 

[pell1203]

Mine is now low by 0.22 mil at 549 meters. Used to give me +3.90 mil elevation and now it spits out +3.68 mil for exact same conditions. Target still thinks +3.9 mil is the correct solution for 549 meters!

Numbers at 957 meters, albeit at a different location, elevation, pressure, and temperature than above were also off and were between 0.5 - 0.7 mil low in similar conditions from the last time out.

I did notice there were recent updates! It is annoying to get everything to line up properly to 1000 meters and then an update trashes it all.