Please let me know what you all think about the 5.7 as a side arm for personal defense. Would you put your life on the line with one to protect you or your family?
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Suppressors 5.7 as a side arm?
- Thread starter *Bones*
- Start date
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
Nope. A 40 grain bullet may work fine for a ground squirrel but I'd prefer something in 165 grain or larger for a tweaked out meth head/crack head who isn't feeling any pain.
Nope. A 40 grain bullet may work fine for a ground squirrel but I'd prefer something in 165 grain or larger for a tweaked out meth head/crack head who isn't feeling any pain.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
It's better than a sharp stick to the eye...but for personal defense, I'll carry the largest round suitable for the season.
Summer is usually a small 9mm; winter is a 45acp.
It's better than a sharp stick to the eye...but for personal defense, I'll carry the largest round suitable for the season.
Summer is usually a small 9mm; winter is a 45acp.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">big 230grn hollow points going 800fps are my choice </div></div>
Hard to beat that there. Never had to use mine but I feel plenty comfortable carrying it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">big 230grn hollow points going 800fps are my choice </div></div>
Hard to beat that there. Never had to use mine but I feel plenty comfortable carrying it.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
I prefer the 45 too. But having said that, I do have a ps90 and I used to be hesitant of the round, that is until I put down a few hundred varmints with it. Everything on ballistic tables said it will perform like a 22 mag. The reality is, it is quite devastating. The 5.7 round does massive damage, quick expansion, no over penetration and extremely easy to control. I would use it to defend my life, no question, especially if I lived in an apartment or condo. The 5.7 pistol has a 20 round mag and I would choose it over a 9mm any day for firepower, control, accuracy and stopping power. They are also ideal training tools since they have low recoil.
Down side, although the 5.7 is used by the secret service and a few other other countries millitaries. There is very little real world data.
It's hard to find good resources on the 5.7 too, any forums dedicated to the 5.7 are full of gun nerds and stargate fans.
They are a pain in the ass to reload since the brass is very thin and the primers have some sort or sealant.
I personally, think the round is very good, well thought out and very traumatic and like I said before, ideal for areas where you are concerned about neighbors. I like the 45 better because its proven over and over again, I shoot it well and enjoy shooting the 45 and I'm confident with it.
I prefer the 45 too. But having said that, I do have a ps90 and I used to be hesitant of the round, that is until I put down a few hundred varmints with it. Everything on ballistic tables said it will perform like a 22 mag. The reality is, it is quite devastating. The 5.7 round does massive damage, quick expansion, no over penetration and extremely easy to control. I would use it to defend my life, no question, especially if I lived in an apartment or condo. The 5.7 pistol has a 20 round mag and I would choose it over a 9mm any day for firepower, control, accuracy and stopping power. They are also ideal training tools since they have low recoil.
Down side, although the 5.7 is used by the secret service and a few other other countries millitaries. There is very little real world data.
It's hard to find good resources on the 5.7 too, any forums dedicated to the 5.7 are full of gun nerds and stargate fans.
They are a pain in the ass to reload since the brass is very thin and the primers have some sort or sealant.
I personally, think the round is very good, well thought out and very traumatic and like I said before, ideal for areas where you are concerned about neighbors. I like the 45 better because its proven over and over again, I shoot it well and enjoy shooting the 45 and I'm confident with it.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
I have no personal knowledge, just sharing info provided to me from a PD detective friend. He said he investigated 2 fatal shootings involving a Five-Seven. He said in both that the surrounding tissue was turned to Jello and he was impressed by the results.
I can not recall how many times the victims were shot, or the locations, nor am I recommending the huge pistol as a carry weapon. Just sharing info.
I have no personal knowledge, just sharing info provided to me from a PD detective friend. He said he investigated 2 fatal shootings involving a Five-Seven. He said in both that the surrounding tissue was turned to Jello and he was impressed by the results.
I can not recall how many times the victims were shot, or the locations, nor am I recommending the huge pistol as a carry weapon. Just sharing info.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
I thought the key to the 5.7 was first, a whole bunch of rounds and second, awesome bullets (that are tough to come by now). I think I'd stick with a .40 but the best gun is the one you have with you.
I thought the key to the 5.7 was first, a whole bunch of rounds and second, awesome bullets (that are tough to come by now). I think I'd stick with a .40 but the best gun is the one you have with you.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
me thinks..... a .45 is most defense-able in a court than say a caliber that may be considered by some barrister or many of the un-washed as a bullet used in an offensive type firearm ......
me thinks..... a .45 is most defense-able in a court than say a caliber that may be considered by some barrister or many of the un-washed as a bullet used in an offensive type firearm ......
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I prefer the 45 too. But having said that, I do have a ps90 and I used to be hesitant of the round, that is until I put down a few hundred varmints with it. Everything on ballistic tables said it will perform like a 22 mag. The reality is, it is quite devastating. The 5.7 round does massive damage, quick expansion, no over penetration and extremely easy to control. I would use it to defend my life, no question, especially if I lived in an apartment or condo. The 5.7 pistol has a 20 round mag and I would choose it over a 9mm any day for firepower, control, accuracy and stopping power. They are also ideal training tools since they have low recoil.
Down side, although the 5.7 is used by the secret service and a few other other countries millitaries. There is very little real world data.
It's hard to find good resources on the 5.7 too, any forums dedicated to the 5.7 are full of gun nerds and stargate fans.
They are a pain in the ass to reload since the brass is very thin and the primers have some sort or sealant.
I personally, think the round is very good, well thought out and very traumatic and like I said before, ideal for areas where you are concerned about neighbors. I like the 45 better because its proven over and over again, I shoot it well and enjoy shooting the 45 and I'm confident with it.
</div></div>
Performance on varmints is not the same as performance vs humans. Varmint bullets should be devastating on small animals because of their rapid initial expansion. This does limit penetration though and would make it less than ideal for human sized targets. Varmint bullets are generally a poor choice for self defense.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I prefer the 45 too. But having said that, I do have a ps90 and I used to be hesitant of the round, that is until I put down a few hundred varmints with it. Everything on ballistic tables said it will perform like a 22 mag. The reality is, it is quite devastating. The 5.7 round does massive damage, quick expansion, no over penetration and extremely easy to control. I would use it to defend my life, no question, especially if I lived in an apartment or condo. The 5.7 pistol has a 20 round mag and I would choose it over a 9mm any day for firepower, control, accuracy and stopping power. They are also ideal training tools since they have low recoil.
Down side, although the 5.7 is used by the secret service and a few other other countries millitaries. There is very little real world data.
It's hard to find good resources on the 5.7 too, any forums dedicated to the 5.7 are full of gun nerds and stargate fans.
They are a pain in the ass to reload since the brass is very thin and the primers have some sort or sealant.
I personally, think the round is very good, well thought out and very traumatic and like I said before, ideal for areas where you are concerned about neighbors. I like the 45 better because its proven over and over again, I shoot it well and enjoy shooting the 45 and I'm confident with it.
</div></div>
Performance on varmints is not the same as performance vs humans. Varmint bullets should be devastating on small animals because of their rapid initial expansion. This does limit penetration though and would make it less than ideal for human sized targets. Varmint bullets are generally a poor choice for self defense.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I prefer the 45 too. But having said that, I do have a ps90 and I used to be hesitant of the round, that is until I put down a few hundred varmints with it. Everything on ballistic tables said it will perform like a 22 mag. The reality is, it is quite devastating. The 5.7 round does massive damage, quick expansion, no over penetration and extremely easy to control. I would use it to defend my life, no question, especially if I lived in an apartment or condo. The 5.7 pistol has a 20 round mag and I would choose it over a 9mm any day for firepower, control, accuracy and stopping power. They are also ideal training tools since they have low recoil.
Down side, although the 5.7 is used by the secret service and a few other other countries millitaries. There is very little real world data.
It's hard to find good resources on the 5.7 too, any forums dedicated to the 5.7 are full of gun nerds and stargate fans.
They are a pain in the ass to reload since the brass is very thin and the primers have some sort or sealant.
I personally, think the round is very good, well thought out and very traumatic and like I said before, ideal for areas where you are concerned about neighbors. I like the 45 better because its proven over and over again, I shoot it well and enjoy shooting the 45 and I'm confident with it.
</div></div>
Performance on varmints is not the same as performance vs humans. Varmint bullets should be devastating on small animals because of their rapid initial expansion. This does limit penetration though and would make it less than ideal for human sized targets. Varmint bullets are generally a poor choice for self defense. </div></div>
1. No sh*t, Performance on Varmints is not the same.
2. The 5.7 is not a Varmint round, it was designed as a PDW round.
3. My experiance with the round is limited but the round is a hell of a lot more than what it seems to be, IMHO, I think it's a good choice for personal defense, and like I said before it's not my first choice but I'd take it over a lot of other cartridges.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I prefer the 45 too. But having said that, I do have a ps90 and I used to be hesitant of the round, that is until I put down a few hundred varmints with it. Everything on ballistic tables said it will perform like a 22 mag. The reality is, it is quite devastating. The 5.7 round does massive damage, quick expansion, no over penetration and extremely easy to control. I would use it to defend my life, no question, especially if I lived in an apartment or condo. The 5.7 pistol has a 20 round mag and I would choose it over a 9mm any day for firepower, control, accuracy and stopping power. They are also ideal training tools since they have low recoil.
Down side, although the 5.7 is used by the secret service and a few other other countries millitaries. There is very little real world data.
It's hard to find good resources on the 5.7 too, any forums dedicated to the 5.7 are full of gun nerds and stargate fans.
They are a pain in the ass to reload since the brass is very thin and the primers have some sort or sealant.
I personally, think the round is very good, well thought out and very traumatic and like I said before, ideal for areas where you are concerned about neighbors. I like the 45 better because its proven over and over again, I shoot it well and enjoy shooting the 45 and I'm confident with it.
</div></div>
Performance on varmints is not the same as performance vs humans. Varmint bullets should be devastating on small animals because of their rapid initial expansion. This does limit penetration though and would make it less than ideal for human sized targets. Varmint bullets are generally a poor choice for self defense. </div></div>
1. No sh*t, Performance on Varmints is not the same.
2. The 5.7 is not a Varmint round, it was designed as a PDW round.
3. My experiance with the round is limited but the round is a hell of a lot more than what it seems to be, IMHO, I think it's a good choice for personal defense, and like I said before it's not my first choice but I'd take it over a lot of other cartridges.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
A wise old man once told me "Carry the biggest caliber that you can shoot accurately"
Having said that I carried a 5.7 for most of two years. However a 45 was never far away. Back to the old good old 45 ACP from here on out. The 5.7 was one of the most enjoyable pistols I have ever shot. I have nothing bad to say about the 5.7.
A wise old man once told me "Carry the biggest caliber that you can shoot accurately"
Having said that I carried a 5.7 for most of two years. However a 45 was never far away. Back to the old good old 45 ACP from here on out. The 5.7 was one of the most enjoyable pistols I have ever shot. I have nothing bad to say about the 5.7.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
My wife's bedside gun is a 5.7 with a TLR light/laser. Perfect for her....no recoil and 30 round magazine. The are some very good loads available http://www.eliteammunition.net/57_CHART.html
I have shot her loads (Protector) into a variety of things and I am completely comfortable with her using that gun/round. Sure, I carry a .45 acp but the 5.7 is nothing to sneeze at either. You can argue ballistics all day...I have found it to be suprisingly destructive.
My wife's bedside gun is a 5.7 with a TLR light/laser. Perfect for her....no recoil and 30 round magazine. The are some very good loads available http://www.eliteammunition.net/57_CHART.html
I have shot her loads (Protector) into a variety of things and I am completely comfortable with her using that gun/round. Sure, I carry a .45 acp but the 5.7 is nothing to sneeze at either. You can argue ballistics all day...I have found it to be suprisingly destructive.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
Go to the range and see how many rounds you can shoot center mass with the 5.7 versus the 45acp in 5 seconds. Then take a look at the group....
The 5.7 is a great gun. I have shot 200 yard pop up targets with the 5.7 as well.
Go to the range and see how many rounds you can shoot center mass with the 5.7 versus the 45acp in 5 seconds. Then take a look at the group....
The 5.7 is a great gun. I have shot 200 yard pop up targets with the 5.7 as well.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I prefer the 45 too. But having said that, I do have a ps90 and I used to be hesitant of the round, that is until I put down a few hundred varmints with it. Everything on ballistic tables said it will perform like a 22 mag. The reality is, it is quite devastating. The 5.7 round does massive damage, quick expansion, no over penetration and extremely easy to control. I would use it to defend my life, no question, especially if I lived in an apartment or condo. The 5.7 pistol has a 20 round mag and I would choose it over a 9mm any day for firepower, control, accuracy and stopping power. They are also ideal training tools since they have low recoil.
Down side, although the 5.7 is used by the secret service and a few other other countries millitaries. There is very little real world data.
It's hard to find good resources on the 5.7 too, any forums dedicated to the 5.7 are full of gun nerds and stargate fans.
They are a pain in the ass to reload since the brass is very thin and the primers have some sort or sealant.
I personally, think the round is very good, well thought out and very traumatic and like I said before, ideal for areas where you are concerned about neighbors. I like the 45 better because its proven over and over again, I shoot it well and enjoy shooting the 45 and I'm confident with it.
</div></div>
Performance on varmints is not the same as performance vs humans. Varmint bullets should be devastating on small animals because of their rapid initial expansion. This does limit penetration though and would make it less than ideal for human sized targets. Varmint bullets are generally a poor choice for self defense. </div></div>
1. No sh*t, Performance on Varmints is not the same.
2. The 5.7 is not a Varmint round, it was designed as a PDW round.
3. My experiance with the round is limited but the round is a hell of a lot more than what it seems to be, IMHO, I think it's a good choice for personal defense, and like I said before it's not my first choice but I'd take it over a lot of other cartridges. </div></div>
Anyone can shove a three letter acronym up someone's ass. It's still a Varmint round.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I prefer the 45 too. But having said that, I do have a ps90 and I used to be hesitant of the round, that is until I put down a few hundred varmints with it. Everything on ballistic tables said it will perform like a 22 mag. The reality is, it is quite devastating. The 5.7 round does massive damage, quick expansion, no over penetration and extremely easy to control. I would use it to defend my life, no question, especially if I lived in an apartment or condo. The 5.7 pistol has a 20 round mag and I would choose it over a 9mm any day for firepower, control, accuracy and stopping power. They are also ideal training tools since they have low recoil.
Down side, although the 5.7 is used by the secret service and a few other other countries millitaries. There is very little real world data.
It's hard to find good resources on the 5.7 too, any forums dedicated to the 5.7 are full of gun nerds and stargate fans.
They are a pain in the ass to reload since the brass is very thin and the primers have some sort or sealant.
I personally, think the round is very good, well thought out and very traumatic and like I said before, ideal for areas where you are concerned about neighbors. I like the 45 better because its proven over and over again, I shoot it well and enjoy shooting the 45 and I'm confident with it.
</div></div>
Performance on varmints is not the same as performance vs humans. Varmint bullets should be devastating on small animals because of their rapid initial expansion. This does limit penetration though and would make it less than ideal for human sized targets. Varmint bullets are generally a poor choice for self defense. </div></div>
1. No sh*t, Performance on Varmints is not the same.
2. The 5.7 is not a Varmint round, it was designed as a PDW round.
3. My experiance with the round is limited but the round is a hell of a lot more than what it seems to be, IMHO, I think it's a good choice for personal defense, and like I said before it's not my first choice but I'd take it over a lot of other cartridges. </div></div>
Anyone can shove a three letter acronym up someone's ass. It's still a Varmint round.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
Well, f*ck me right... what exactly is you're 5.7 experiance, or did you just jump in here to bust my balls?
Well, f*ck me right... what exactly is you're 5.7 experiance, or did you just jump in here to bust my balls?
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
having just bought a XD .45, I personally lean towards the caliber, but call me biased. I chose it because of some wise words my father-in-law gave me one day: "Son a 9mm might expand, a .40 will PROBABLY expand, but dammit a .45 sure as hell ain't gonna shrink."
having just bought a XD .45, I personally lean towards the caliber, but call me biased. I chose it because of some wise words my father-in-law gave me one day: "Son a 9mm might expand, a .40 will PROBABLY expand, but dammit a .45 sure as hell ain't gonna shrink."
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
A 5.7 would be far from my personal idea of an ideal carry/home defense pistol cartridge, but like so many "this vs. that" caliber discussions...shot placement is everything, not just raw energy!!
As for the ammo issues...there are more and more companies getting into the 5.7 so you are no longer limited to the 3-4 options from FN. Here is one such example:
http://www.eliteammunition.net/57_CHART.html
With all that said...I'll stick to my .45acp unless I don't have access to it when the $H!T hits the fan and the FN is within reach!
A 5.7 would be far from my personal idea of an ideal carry/home defense pistol cartridge, but like so many "this vs. that" caliber discussions...shot placement is everything, not just raw energy!!
As for the ammo issues...there are more and more companies getting into the 5.7 so you are no longer limited to the 3-4 options from FN. Here is one such example:
http://www.eliteammunition.net/57_CHART.html
With all that said...I'll stick to my .45acp unless I don't have access to it when the $H!T hits the fan and the FN is within reach!
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
I shot quite a few rounds from a PS90 and to be honest it reminds me of the .22 magnum. Yes, its fairly accurate and flat shooting but down range performance was lack luster. It zips nice tiny holes in things. The ammo is pricey. I liked the mags and bottom ejection though.Really cool rifle but wimpy caliber.
I would rather have any big bore or magnum pistol round over it for defense or hunting. Admit it or not the 5.7 bullet weight and speed clearly put it in the varmit class of rounds.
I shot quite a few rounds from a PS90 and to be honest it reminds me of the .22 magnum. Yes, its fairly accurate and flat shooting but down range performance was lack luster. It zips nice tiny holes in things. The ammo is pricey. I liked the mags and bottom ejection though.Really cool rifle but wimpy caliber.
I would rather have any big bore or magnum pistol round over it for defense or hunting. Admit it or not the 5.7 bullet weight and speed clearly put it in the varmit class of rounds.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: *Bones*</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please let me know what you all think about the 5.7 as a side arm for personal defense. Would you put your life on the line with one to protect you or your family? </div></div>
Politely put, "oh, hell no!" .45 first choice, .40 or 9mm second, even 12 ga far ahead of the 5.7.
Truck gun: S&W M25 with Corbon .45 COLT. House guns: Springfield .45 and Remington 870 Short barreled shotgun w/surefire forearm light. Back up two black chows!!!
I have owned several FN P90s Police trade ins...fun to shoot, but traded in due to not being a fight stopper at CQB distances.
Seems to be a domestic muslim weapon of choice!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: *Bones*</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please let me know what you all think about the 5.7 as a side arm for personal defense. Would you put your life on the line with one to protect you or your family? </div></div>
Politely put, "oh, hell no!" .45 first choice, .40 or 9mm second, even 12 ga far ahead of the 5.7.
Truck gun: S&W M25 with Corbon .45 COLT. House guns: Springfield .45 and Remington 870 Short barreled shotgun w/surefire forearm light. Back up two black chows!!!
I have owned several FN P90s Police trade ins...fun to shoot, but traded in due to not being a fight stopper at CQB distances.
Seems to be a domestic muslim weapon of choice!!!
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
Go with the 45ACP hornady TAP or remington golden saber. The 5.7 round has to much penetration to be fired in close quarter hence why most Euro angecies are doing away with the 5.7 and going with that new 4.7 round which hits hard and stops. We conducted a test with various rounds with a level 4 vest. Results 5.56, 5.7, and 762 all went through with no problem. Now the 45ACP golden saber rounds hit the vest something fierce. The 5.7 moves at approx 2300fps so if a level 4 bullet proof vest wont stop it what do you think it will do when it hits dry wall? Somthing to think about before you get it.
Go with the 45ACP hornady TAP or remington golden saber. The 5.7 round has to much penetration to be fired in close quarter hence why most Euro angecies are doing away with the 5.7 and going with that new 4.7 round which hits hard and stops. We conducted a test with various rounds with a level 4 vest. Results 5.56, 5.7, and 762 all went through with no problem. Now the 45ACP golden saber rounds hit the vest something fierce. The 5.7 moves at approx 2300fps so if a level 4 bullet proof vest wont stop it what do you think it will do when it hits dry wall? Somthing to think about before you get it.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
I have experience with the .45 and the 5.7 clearing hogs off my lake property, where my .45 will drop a hog almost dead in its tracks, the 5.7 struggles to put one down quickly. it is a very fun gun to shoot, but i find it just doesnt have near the immediate wallop of a larger round. I will admit i dont know much about how it performs in a defensive situation, and i realize that a wild hog can be much more tough to bring down than a human target, which is part the reason i like to test my defensive tools on them.
I have experience with the .45 and the 5.7 clearing hogs off my lake property, where my .45 will drop a hog almost dead in its tracks, the 5.7 struggles to put one down quickly. it is a very fun gun to shoot, but i find it just doesnt have near the immediate wallop of a larger round. I will admit i dont know much about how it performs in a defensive situation, and i realize that a wild hog can be much more tough to bring down than a human target, which is part the reason i like to test my defensive tools on them.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HAVOC615</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 5.7 moves at approx 2300fps so if a level 4 bullet proof vest wont stop it what do you think it will do when it hits dry wall? Somthing to think about before you get it. </div></div>
A bullet that light probably isn't going to retain much energy after hitting something.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HAVOC615</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 5.7 moves at approx 2300fps so if a level 4 bullet proof vest wont stop it what do you think it will do when it hits dry wall? Somthing to think about before you get it. </div></div>
A bullet that light probably isn't going to retain much energy after hitting something.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
Bullet choice has allot to do with how the 5.7 acts. I've shot pigs up to 200ish with them and the 195lf's do allot better than the little v-max does. In fact the little 195 kills better than it should. One shot drops on big pigs. The v-max tends to take a couple. I do carry a 40 due to pistol size, but my 5.7 is right next to my bed with my 12 gauge. My guess is anyone saying that are 22 mag like, have no experience with them.
Bullet choice has allot to do with how the 5.7 acts. I've shot pigs up to 200ish with them and the 195lf's do allot better than the little v-max does. In fact the little 195 kills better than it should. One shot drops on big pigs. The v-max tends to take a couple. I do carry a 40 due to pistol size, but my 5.7 is right next to my bed with my 12 gauge. My guess is anyone saying that are 22 mag like, have no experience with them.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
I haven't shot many pigs with a 45, but I did have one little Javi take 6 before he quit charging my ass. I was shooting my ultra cdp with 230 grain starfires. Onry little bastard!
I haven't shot many pigs with a 45, but I did have one little Javi take 6 before he quit charging my ass. I was shooting my ultra cdp with 230 grain starfires. Onry little bastard!
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
Fk carrying a .22 for defense, especially if the whole gun is plastic. I don't care how fast you can make a 32gr pill fly or how many you can carry in 1 mag either. If you are prepared to spend a thousand dollars on a pistol for self-defense, I can probably think of a thousand better alternatives than a Five SeveN without even getting into the ballistics debate.
Fk carrying a .22 for defense, especially if the whole gun is plastic. I don't care how fast you can make a 32gr pill fly or how many you can carry in 1 mag either. If you are prepared to spend a thousand dollars on a pistol for self-defense, I can probably think of a thousand better alternatives than a Five SeveN without even getting into the ballistics debate.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My guess is anyone saying that are 22 mag like, have no experience with them.
</div></div>
Well good guess but I am not alone in my opinion.
Note I said opinion.
Although I find the weapon system novel and really wanted to buy one...that is until I actually fired one. My friend had one in his shop doing a new sight rail install. The customer also dropped off 3 cases of ammo and said "feel free to shoot it". My friend called me because he knew I was hot for a PS90 at the time. I asked him what he thought about it and he said
"come try it yourself".I burned up a couple hundred rounds and was VERY disappointed. I was firing on paper targets, steel plates,cans and some misc. junk on the range. There is almost zero feedback on targets that are hit with visible damage hard to see at times. The 5.7 is controllable and can carry a lot of rounds and those are the only pluses I got from it. My friend also was very disappointed by the caliber.
The terminal ballistics of it ARE similar to a .22
CUT/ PASTE :
Other than being able to perforate soft body armor, the 5.7 x 28 mm used in the FN P90, as well as the 4.6 x 30 mm fired from the HK MP7 cause wounds less incapacitating than those made by 9 mm FMJ fired from a pistol.
I have personally fired the 5.7 x 28 mm FN P-90; velocity, penetration, and tissue destruction is like a .17 Hornet--far less than we see with 75 gr TAP or 77 MK out of our M4’s. Winchester RA45T 230 gr JHP’s fired from our duty 1911’s crush more tissue and penetrate further than the 5.7 x 28 mm. Use of the 5.7 x 28 mm is a good way to ensure mission failure.
Several papers have described the incredibly poor terminal performance of projectiles fired by the FN P90.
--Dahlstrom D, Powley K, and Gordon C: “Wound Profile of the FN Cartridge (SS 190) Fired from the FN P90 Submachine Gun". Wound Ballistic Review. 4(3):21-26; Spring 2000.
--Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991.
--Fackler M: "More on the Bizarre Fabrique National P-90", Wound Ballistic Review. 3(1):44-45; 1997.
--FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit. FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests 1989-1995. Quantico, U.S. Department of Justice--Federal Bureau of Investigation.
--Hayes C: “Personal Defense Weapons—Answer in Search of a Question”, Wound Ballistic Review. 5(1):30-36; Spring 2001.
--Roberts G: “Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ Bullet Fired by the New FN P-90 , Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant”, AFTE Journal. 30(2):326-329, Spring 1998.
--Roberts G: “Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 31 Grain SS-190 FMJ Bullet Fired by the FN P-90 in 10% Ordnance Gelatin.”, AFTE Journal. In Press.
The early 5.7 x 28 mm 23 gr FMJ bullet fired by the FN P-90 had insufficient penetration for law enforcement and military use. The current 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet has nearly adequate penetration, but the wound resulting from this projectile has a relatively small permanent crush cavity, as well as an insignificant temporary stretch cavity. Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......
Numerous other projectiles commonly used for law enforcement and military special operations applications, such as a good 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP JHP, the better 5.56 x 45 mm BTHP/JSP loads, as well as 12 gauge shotgun slugs and 00 buckshot, all provide better penetration, crush more tissue, and have far greater potential to reliably physiologically incapacitate an aggressor than the 5.7 x 28 mm 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet fired by the FN P-90. Law enforcement agencies and military special operations units are strongly urged to avoid adoption of this weapon system.
Most noted:
Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......
If you have one and like it then good for you.
I REALLY questions anyone judgment to rely on it for stopping power or self defense when there is clearly better handgun rounds available.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My guess is anyone saying that are 22 mag like, have no experience with them.
Well good guess but I am not alone in my opinion.
Note I said opinion.
Although I find the weapon system novel and really wanted to buy one...that is until I actually fired one. My friend had one in his shop doing a new sight rail install. The customer also dropped off 3 cases of ammo and said "feel free to shoot it". My friend called me because he knew I was hot for a PS90 at the time. I asked him what he thought about it and he said
"come try it yourself".I burned up a couple hundred rounds and was VERY disappointed. I was firing on paper targets, steel plates,cans and some misc. junk on the range. There is almost zero feedback on targets that are hit with visible damage hard to see at times. The 5.7 is controllable and can carry a lot of rounds and those are the only pluses I got from it. My friend also was very disappointed by the caliber.
The terminal ballistics of it ARE similar to a .22
CUT/ PASTE :
Other than being able to perforate soft body armor, the 5.7 x 28 mm used in the FN P90, as well as the 4.6 x 30 mm fired from the HK MP7 cause wounds less incapacitating than those made by 9 mm FMJ fired from a pistol.
I have personally fired the 5.7 x 28 mm FN P-90; velocity, penetration, and tissue destruction is like a .17 Hornet--far less than we see with 75 gr TAP or 77 MK out of our M4’s. Winchester RA45T 230 gr JHP’s fired from our duty 1911’s crush more tissue and penetrate further than the 5.7 x 28 mm. Use of the 5.7 x 28 mm is a good way to ensure mission failure.
Several papers have described the incredibly poor terminal performance of projectiles fired by the FN P90.
--Dahlstrom D, Powley K, and Gordon C: “Wound Profile of the FN Cartridge (SS 190) Fired from the FN P90 Submachine Gun". Wound Ballistic Review. 4(3):21-26; Spring 2000.
--Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991.
--Fackler M: "More on the Bizarre Fabrique National P-90", Wound Ballistic Review. 3(1):44-45; 1997.
--FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit. FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests 1989-1995. Quantico, U.S. Department of Justice--Federal Bureau of Investigation.
--Hayes C: “Personal Defense Weapons—Answer in Search of a Question”, Wound Ballistic Review. 5(1):30-36; Spring 2001.
--Roberts G: “Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ Bullet Fired by the New FN P-90 , Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant”, AFTE Journal. 30(2):326-329, Spring 1998.
--Roberts G: “Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 31 Grain SS-190 FMJ Bullet Fired by the FN P-90 in 10% Ordnance Gelatin.”, AFTE Journal. In Press.
The early 5.7 x 28 mm 23 gr FMJ bullet fired by the FN P-90 had insufficient penetration for law enforcement and military use. The current 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet has nearly adequate penetration, but the wound resulting from this projectile has a relatively small permanent crush cavity, as well as an insignificant temporary stretch cavity. Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......
Numerous other projectiles commonly used for law enforcement and military special operations applications, such as a good 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP JHP, the better 5.56 x 45 mm BTHP/JSP loads, as well as 12 gauge shotgun slugs and 00 buckshot, all provide better penetration, crush more tissue, and have far greater potential to reliably physiologically incapacitate an aggressor than the 5.7 x 28 mm 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet fired by the FN P-90. Law enforcement agencies and military special operations units are strongly urged to avoid adoption of this weapon system.
Most noted:
Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......
If you have one and like it then good for you.
I REALLY questions anyone judgment to rely on it for stopping power or self defense when there is clearly better handgun rounds available.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
Never shot anybody with one (or anything else for that matter) All I have to go off of is the animals I've shot with everything from bb to 50.
Compared to a 9mm in wet phone books
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERxZrzigoK4
Not trying to say its better or worse, but its no 22lr.
Never shot anybody with one (or anything else for that matter) All I have to go off of is the animals I've shot with everything from bb to 50.
Compared to a 9mm in wet phone books
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERxZrzigoK4
Not trying to say its better or worse, but its no 22lr.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
Are most people in this country killed by the .22lr, or did I just imagine that up?
How many of you would walk around your property with nothing but a .22 pistol most of the time? Anyone kill a pig with a single shot to the ear?
It's accuracy. I'm getting tired of all the 'size matters' arguments.
Are most people in this country killed by the .22lr, or did I just imagine that up?
How many of you would walk around your property with nothing but a .22 pistol most of the time? Anyone kill a pig with a single shot to the ear?
It's accuracy. I'm getting tired of all the 'size matters' arguments.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
I'm a "the bigger the bullet, the better you are" type of guy. That being said if the 5.7 is all the recoil a person can handle, its better than nothing at all.
I'm a "the bigger the bullet, the better you are" type of guy. That being said if the 5.7 is all the recoil a person can handle, its better than nothing at all.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a "the bigger the bullet, the better you are" type of guy. That being said if the 5.7 is all the recoil a person can handle, its better than nothing at all. </div></div>
You sir, have given me an idea!
How about a 30mm pistol? You'll be the coolest guy with broken wrists!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TCB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a "the bigger the bullet, the better you are" type of guy. That being said if the 5.7 is all the recoil a person can handle, its better than nothing at all. </div></div>
You sir, have given me an idea!
How about a 30mm pistol? You'll be the coolest guy with broken wrists!
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmaHeavy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are most people in this country killed by the .22lr, or did I just imagine that up?
How many of you would walk around your property with nothing but a .22 pistol most of the time? Anyone kill a pig with a single shot to the ear?
It's accuracy. I'm getting tired of all the 'size matters' arguments. </div></div>
+1. I 've heard that more people are killed with .22lr than any other round in America also. And finally someone who understands that shot placement is everything and that size is a small factor. Before the army went to the 9mm, they did extensive tests which mostly consisted of shooting a lot of goats and looking at the damage. They concluded after alot of testing that what decided the lethality of a bullet vs another bullet was in fact the width but that was merely because in a .45 it makes a SLIGHTLY bigger hole. the key word being slightly, generally they were only increased by the difference in the width of the two bullets being tested which would mean that with a 9mm which is .355 and a .45 which is actually .452 you would get .097" bigger. People get this idea that a 9mm creates a tiny whole and .45 blows holes the size of dinner plates when in reality you are getting a very slightly larger hole but nothing to really be concerned over. They also concluded to no surprise that shot placement was ultimately what decided the lethality of a shot more than anything else. And dont forget 9mm has many positive qualities too mainly being higher magazine capacity which lead the army to decide that going with 9mm was a better option. As for "knock down power" they also proved that to be completely false. There have been numerous tests caught on camera of people standing on one leg getting shot repeatedly with a bullet proof vest on and not falling down. This absolutely proves knock down power to be a myth because in a vest the person is absorbing 100% of the force and is not falling over on one leg. Without a vest the bullet usually goes through both sides which would obviously mean that some energy is not expended in the body. So if you are not getting a substantially larger wound channel and as much as every loves to talk about knock down power, its a myth, then what are you getting with a larger round other than less magazine capacity? In my eyes you gain nothing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmaHeavy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are most people in this country killed by the .22lr, or did I just imagine that up?
How many of you would walk around your property with nothing but a .22 pistol most of the time? Anyone kill a pig with a single shot to the ear?
It's accuracy. I'm getting tired of all the 'size matters' arguments. </div></div>
+1. I 've heard that more people are killed with .22lr than any other round in America also. And finally someone who understands that shot placement is everything and that size is a small factor. Before the army went to the 9mm, they did extensive tests which mostly consisted of shooting a lot of goats and looking at the damage. They concluded after alot of testing that what decided the lethality of a bullet vs another bullet was in fact the width but that was merely because in a .45 it makes a SLIGHTLY bigger hole. the key word being slightly, generally they were only increased by the difference in the width of the two bullets being tested which would mean that with a 9mm which is .355 and a .45 which is actually .452 you would get .097" bigger. People get this idea that a 9mm creates a tiny whole and .45 blows holes the size of dinner plates when in reality you are getting a very slightly larger hole but nothing to really be concerned over. They also concluded to no surprise that shot placement was ultimately what decided the lethality of a shot more than anything else. And dont forget 9mm has many positive qualities too mainly being higher magazine capacity which lead the army to decide that going with 9mm was a better option. As for "knock down power" they also proved that to be completely false. There have been numerous tests caught on camera of people standing on one leg getting shot repeatedly with a bullet proof vest on and not falling down. This absolutely proves knock down power to be a myth because in a vest the person is absorbing 100% of the force and is not falling over on one leg. Without a vest the bullet usually goes through both sides which would obviously mean that some energy is not expended in the body. So if you are not getting a substantially larger wound channel and as much as every loves to talk about knock down power, its a myth, then what are you getting with a larger round other than less magazine capacity? In my eyes you gain nothing.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cordoba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't want to get shot in the face/dick area with one! </div></div>
At this rate you might be at 100 post by tomorrow.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cordoba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't want to get shot in the face/dick area with one! </div></div>
At this rate you might be at 100 post by tomorrow.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
I own the 5.7 and though it might not be my first choice for killing in self defense it would be my first choice in subdueing in self defense. Sure it might not kill someone but it sure as hell is going to hurt. And those saying that its not effective might want to try and tell that to those killed/wounded in the ft. hood incident.
That being said I would go to a good .45 before my 5.7, but for anyone uncomfortable with a large caliber, it is a good gun.
I own the 5.7 and though it might not be my first choice for killing in self defense it would be my first choice in subdueing in self defense. Sure it might not kill someone but it sure as hell is going to hurt. And those saying that its not effective might want to try and tell that to those killed/wounded in the ft. hood incident.
That being said I would go to a good .45 before my 5.7, but for anyone uncomfortable with a large caliber, it is a good gun.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmaHeavy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are most people in this country killed by the .22lr, or did I just imagine that up?...</div></div>
It doesn't matter because the point is irrelevant. It makes a statistical statement about the prevalence of the use of a particular cartridge but does not speak to its effectiveness, not even a little, no matter how much you want it to.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmaHeavy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are most people in this country killed by the .22lr, or did I just imagine that up?...</div></div>
It doesn't matter because the point is irrelevant. It makes a statistical statement about the prevalence of the use of a particular cartridge but does not speak to its effectiveness, not even a little, no matter how much you want it to.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
With respect for the soldiers lost at Fort Hood, I am sure a lot of data was obtained from that terrorist attack. It is pretty clear that the cartridge has some merit.
With respect for the soldiers lost at Fort Hood, I am sure a lot of data was obtained from that terrorist attack. It is pretty clear that the cartridge has some merit.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
ArmaHeavy
You know 30mm would be a cool gun, but I don't know if I'm "man" enough.
ArmaHeavy
You know 30mm would be a cool gun, but I don't know if I'm "man" enough.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
The 5.7 will ice pick through bullet proof vest and the doors of armored cars.
The 5.7 will ice pick through bullet proof vest and the doors of armored cars.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
I have seen a moose take 3 338 lapua rounds at 200 yards before he floped, does that mean it's a bad round too? Just bring some prospective to this conversation.
I have seen a moose take 3 338 lapua rounds at 200 yards before he floped, does that mean it's a bad round too? Just bring some prospective to this conversation.
Re: 5.7 as a side arm?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen a moose take 3 338 lapua rounds at 200 yards before he floped, does that mean it's a bad round too? Just bring some prospective to this conversation. </div></div>
Depends on where he/she was shot and the ammo that was being used!
But...your point is a good one and like I said before on this subject...the proper ammo choice, along with shot placement, means everything in a discussion like this one on whether the FN 5.7 is a good/adequate self-defense/personal protection round.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen a moose take 3 338 lapua rounds at 200 yards before he floped, does that mean it's a bad round too? Just bring some prospective to this conversation. </div></div>
Depends on where he/she was shot and the ammo that was being used!
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