55’s not fully cycling in 223 Wylde 18”

[KneverKnew]

My boys wanted me to start loading some bulk 223/5.56 rounds so they can do more shooting with their AR’s.

I put together several loads and tested them at the range yesterday. All functioned fine except the hornady 55 FMJ’s. While they actually gave one of the best groups of the day, they failed to cycle properly. Most would eject and reset trigger but failed to strip next round. This happened with multiple mags. Several would try to strip next round but road over the rim of the case and cartridge was bound up between bolt and chamber. I’m not sure why, as the velocity average was 2905 fps from my 18” 1/7 twist BA 223 Wylde barrel mid length gas, standard gas block and carbine spring/buffer. Any thoughts what the issue might be. All the others functioned fine.

Here are the loads:

Hornady 55 grain FMJ
R-P cases
CCI 41 primers
OAL- 2.204”
Lee Factory crimp in canalure.
TAC 24.5
V= 2905 FPS

SS-109 62 grain FMJ (pulls)
IVI 85 NATO cases
CCI 41 primers
OAL- 2.243”
Lee Factory crimp in canalure.
TAC 24.5
V= 2849 FPS

SMK 77 grain HPBT
R-P cases
CCI 41 primers
OAL- 2.26”
Lee Factory crimp
TAC 22.5
V= 2472 FPS
TAC 22.8
V= 2510
TAC 23.0
V= 2527
TAC 23.2
V= 2560

 

[ironpony52]

interesting I did not think you could get an AR to fail.

 

[KneverKnew]

Until now my AR hasn’t failed with any factory ammo or reloads.
Could 2900 fps be too slow for the 55’s? Doesn’t seem so to me. It’s like it was just barely not making it back far enough to properly cycle. As if just a little more speed/ pressure it would cycle properly. Obviously my next step is to load some stronger charges. That load listed for the 55’s was not max.

 

[SortOfClear]

Probably too light. This is 55 FMJ factory load-out of a 13.5" barrel!

 

[waveslayer]

Seems odd... I run 55gr going 2800 all the time and no cycling issues among several AR platforms, seems like a Gass issue or buffer

 

[Graves14]

I have a PWS Mk118 with a .223 Wylde chamber that does this occasionally as well when I run the adjustable gas block on its lowest gas setting. One click more gas and it all runs great. if you do not have an adjustable gas block and really want the load to run you could try a lighter buffer or buffer spring.

 

[KneverKnew]

View attachment 8580869
Probably too light. This is 55 FMJ factory load-out of a 13.5" barrel!

I’m loading up more now with stronger charges

 

[KneverKnew]

View attachment 8580869
Probably too light. This is 55 FMJ factory load-out of a 13.5" barrel!

I’m loading up more now with stronger charges

I have a PWS Mk118 with a .223 Wylde chamber that does this occasionally as well when I run the adjustable gas block on its lowest gas setting. One click more gas and it all runs great. if you do not have an adjustable gas block and really want the load to run you could try a lighter buffer or buffer spring.

I do not have adjustable gas block in this rifle. My buffer weighs 2.95 oz. I think my 18” BA barrel has a rifle length gas system instead of mid.

 

[KneverKnew]

I’m also going to shoot some left over 55’s with same charge as yesterday through my sons AR with 223 Wylde barrel. To see if his has similar issue.

 

[KneverKnew]

Well the same load functioned fine through my sons AR, but then I tried a few more through mine and this time they seemed to work although the bolt didn’t lock back. I have new loads with a little more powder I’m going to try.

 

[Ex E6]

Well the same load functioned fine through my sons AR, but then I tried a few more through mine and this time they seemed to work although the bolt didn’t lock back. I have new loads with a little more powder I’m going to try.

Open your gas port a half turn ,then a full turn if that doesn't fix cycling . You might have a stiff spring also .

The velocity isn't an issue ,the gas pulse is . For shits and giggles You could also run a different powder with those 55's and compare cycling .

Example NOT to follow : I purchased some Turan ( Turkish ammo ) says M193 55 Gr. 3166 fps Military spec .

Shoots really nice tight groups for mass produced ammo ,cases are also Nice for reloading . Problem it WON'T cycle ANY of MY AR's Stock or hopped up regardless of Make model or components installed . The Powder is WRONG for any US gas gun system ,I'm aware of !.

 

[KneverKnew]

I don’t g fave an adjustable on my rifle just yet. I have one just not installed. I’m testing with TAC but I also have some 2230 to try. Looking for powder that meters well from hornady AP press powder drop for bulk loading. I have lots of other better powders for accuracy and whatnot but don’t meter well, like Varget or N-140, and others. I use my Lyman digital dispenser scale for precision loads with those powders. Just trying to find a good powder and load to pump out a bulk batch.

 

[mtrmn]

My 55gr fmj load is 26 gr TAC'

 

[owtlaw]

I use 24.4 Gr of TAC under a 77 grn pill.

 

[KneverKnew]

Everyone is being so helpful. Thank you. I am slowly working my loads up to the levels you’ve indicated with TAC. It definately meters fairly consistent. Not perfect but close enough for bulk.

 

[semperfireloading]

Even though you don't have adjustable gas block, the gas block may be installed "flush" with the ledge, thus only "partially" open hole to get gas. Thus it still works, but you are probably taking some off of it from non lined up hole. That is my guess, as I see this issue over and over and over and over. That, or the buffer is like 5 oz or spring is heavy. If its all stock 3 oz and regular carbine spring, then I would bet its the gas block alignment.

Other more rare issues are:
upper has too much friction on bolt, you can easily find this issue from excessive rubbing/wear on the actual BCG
The charging handle is slightly bent. Thus causing friction. Easy to find this.
These 2 issues can be FOUND easily, by simply, with 2 fingers, pulling the BCG & Charging handle in and out from fully in. They should slide easily and not get stuck anywhere.

2900 FPS is not too low for 55 grains, as some AR15's can cycle as low as 2600 FPS using 55 grain depending on the powder. For example, Tac Rifle can cycle the gun with some pretty low FPS, but Varget cannot. But at 2900 I would say every single powder can do it easy.

See how on "this model" there is a small gap between ledge and block? Some are flush, some have 2x that gap. They all different.

 

[Edsel]

Best way to figure out part of the gas port / block alignment problem is to blow into the barrel with the breech end capped by one hand, while fiddling with the gas block position.

You can tell what’s going on by the pressure in your cheeks and the sound that the air makes.

 

[KneverKnew]

Even though you don't have adjustable gas block, the gas block may be installed "flush" with the ledge, thus only "partially" open hole to get gas. Thus it still works, but you are probably taking some off of it from non lined up hole. That is my guess, as I see this issue over and over and over and over. That, or the buffer is like 5 oz or spring is heavy. If its all stock 3 oz and regular carbine spring, then I would bet its the gas block alignment.

Other more rare issues are:
upper has too much friction on bolt, you can easily find this issue from excessive rubbing/wear on the actual BCG
The charging handle is slightly bent. Thus causing friction. Easy to find this.
These 2 issues can be FOUND easily, by simply, with 2 fingers, pulling the BCG & Charging handle in and out from fully in. They should slide easily and not get stuck anywhere.

2900 FPS is not too low for 55 grains, as some AR15's can cycle as low as 2600 FPS using 55 grain depending on the powder. For example, Tac Rifle can cycle the gun with some pretty low FPS, but Varget cannot. But at 2900 I would say every single powder can do it easy.

See how on "this model" there is a small gap between ledge and block? Some are flush, some have 2x that gap. They all different.

I agree with your assessment. My gas block is positioned flush against the gas block journal rear shoulder. I’m pulling it today to check the powder marks on the barrel around the gas port. I’ve noticed no excess friction points on the BCG. It runs smoothly in the upper by hand. I will also measure my gas port size to verify that isn’t the issue. If too small I will look for proper drill bit size to enlarge and then mount my adjustable block. It would be great to get these 55’s running properly as they have given great groups so far, at least at 50 yards. Once I resolve these issues I’ll move further out to see how they open up.

 

[KneverKnew]

Yesterday I went back out to the range for further testing with the 55’s. Long story short, everything seemed to work better at first. It was 55° as opposed to 76° the other day when I had such problems. Not sure if this was affecting things. I was zeroing a scope this time instead of Romeo 5 + Juliet 3 magnifier to be a little more precise. I mounted a Burris E1 2-7x running at 7x.
I used my remaining 55’s in IVI 85 NATO cases and 24.5 gr TAC. These are the ones that gave such problems the other day. They ran fine. ???
Just didn’t lock back. I continued with increasing charges in R-P brass and started out fine but progressively got worse, even once I broke 3000 fps. It must be a gas issue. Probably my poor alignment.

 

[KneverKnew]

Here are my results from range tests yesterday 1/2/2025. 55° at 50 yards. I tested mostly the 55 grain bullets with increasing charges of TAC powder. I did test one load of N–140 under 77 SMK’s. Those seem to function fine, and lock back. The first target shows my adjustments to zero the scope with the final five shot group at center. As you can see that particular load of 24.5 grains TAC groups nicely. If only it would cycle properly.

 

[KneverKnew]

Looks like gas block was lined up enough. But I discovered I have failed my marine corp training/ brainwashing and never deep cleaned my rifle since the last time I shot with a suppressor. It was disgustingly dirty. Not sure if that would lend to the issue. If not, the only other possibility is gas port too small.

 

[semperfireloading]

I am Marines. I am not brainwashed though. Anyway, here are some observations.

There could be some excessive leakage of gas. and the gas hole looks right. it should be around 82k in size. What you can do is "chamfer" the gas block slightly so its more forgiving. Also, check how clean the gas tube is, see if it flows easily. Blow on it. Doesn't look bad. I still bet on gas issue. In 55 grain bullets (TAC), all AR15 should cycle as low as around 24 grains or even less. Optimal load for 55 grain using TAC is 26.0 grains.

Good luck

 

[KneverKnew]

I am Marines. I am not brainwashed though. Anyway, here are some observations.

There could be some excessive leakage of gas. and the gas hole looks right. it should be around 82k in size. What you can do is "chamfer" the gas block slightly so its more forgiving. Also, check how clean the gas tube is, see if it flows easily. Blow on it. Doesn't look bad. I still bet on gas issue. In 55 grain bullets (TAC), all AR15 should cycle as low as around 24 grains or even less. Optimal load for 55 grain using TAC is 26.0 grains.

Good luck

I did blow on gas tube to check clearance. It’s fine. I cleaned thoroughly though. Che led gas key and it’s tight. I noticed a lot of gas residue around tube where it enters upper receiver. I’m going to get it all good and clean and try again, picking up where I left off at 25.7 I believe it was. Will ease my way towards 27 if I can get it that far. I really shouldn’t have let my weapon get that dirty. Now I’m pulling out all of them one at a time and doing a thorough clean.

 

[Two Mikes]

Try this .... Spray Free-All all into gas tube. Let sit for a minute or two then blow tube out with compressed air. Free-All has chemicals in it that dissolve powder and carbon . This fixed my issue that occurs after shooting dirty ammo

 

[KneverKnew]

Try this .... Spray Free-All all into gas tube. Let sit for a minute or two then blow tube out with compressed air. Free-All has chemicals in it that dissolve powder and carbon . This fixed my issue that occurs after shooting dirty ammo

I will add that to my efforts. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[mtrmn]

Far as I know, 26 gr TAC is max or near max with the 55 gr bullets.

 

[semperfireloading]

This guy said he is Marines. So MAX is whatever charge blows the primers. And book max are for the Civilians.

 

[KneverKnew]

This guy said he is Marines. So MAX is whatever charge blows the primers. And book max are for the Civilians.

I resemble that remark!!
I do my best to follow published guidelines in my years of reloading, but I do find it interesting how many times I’ve found that a max load listed ISN’T. Meaning, I quite often find, after slowly working up to the max load, I find no pressure signs at those levels. Generally I don’t continue at that level but back back down to a reasonable level. Most times max or over max doesn’t give best accuracy.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Looks like gas block was lined up enough. But I discovered I have failed my marine corp training/ brainwashing and never deep cleaned my rifle since the last time I shot with a suppressor. It was disgustingly dirty. Not sure if that would lend to the issue. If not, the only other possibility is gas port too small.

I was going to suggest cleaning and lubing the gun.

 

[KneverKnew]

You are a wise man.

 

[KneverKnew]

It has been suggested to me that my bolt may be traveling too fast since it tends to override the next cartridge and jam it in the chamber, halfway pinching the cartridge. I’m not sure if it matters, but one thing I neglected to mention was my ejection pattern. Most all rounds that function properly and the ones that would not cycle properly or caused an override or ejecting at about 430 and would sometimes land on the table next to me or go out 4 to 6 feet. I believe some of the ones on the table were just being caught by my range bag and they would have gone on out further. I will finish cleaning the gun and lubing it today and will reattach the existing gas block and tube to try again and possibly try a heavier buffer to see what happens. Removing the gas block tube will require cutting the pressure washer off.

 

[supercorndogs]

With it not locking back. It's likley running too slow and not too fast.

 

[ironpony52]

The guy saying I am Marines, does that mean we are dealing with multiple personalities ??

I will say though if I meet military personnel and they are any other branch they will say I WAS a xxx, whenever I have met a Marine they always answer I AM a Marine.

 

[KneverKnew]

With it not locking back. It's likley running too slow and not too fast.

That is my current assessment. But I’m not adverse to trying all options. Of course here in Florida the high for today is 59. Down right fridges. I’m sticking close to the fire place today.