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Hunting & Fishing 6.5 bullet not recommended for mule deer
- Thread starter dzander
- Start date
Where did the bullet enter? If the exit is that far back and it went in somewhere around the shoulder then chalk it up to bad bullet choice.
looking at the hole (supposed entry because of OP's description) if you hit tenderloins from that angle, the shot was a bit far back eh? few inches further north she probably would have dropped dead.
What bullet makes up for bad shot placement?
Doesn't seem like some horrific outcome. Animal died fast and humanely. Lost a little bit of meat because of possible bad shot placement and/or a match bullet.
Judging by exit wound size, deer was pretty close.
Nothing seems remarkable. Successful hunt by my metric.
Judging by exit wound size, deer was pretty close.
Nothing seems remarkable. Successful hunt by my metric.
It was a 150 yard shot, approx 15 mph cross wind. The wierd part was the large hole was on the side the bullet went in.
I know the ELD-m is a match bullet , not a hunting bullet, but when I did some searches quite a few said the -m also worked well on game.
I had a good load worked up for the 130 eLD-m so I used it.
I know the ELD-m is a match bullet , not a hunting bullet, but when I did some searches quite a few said the -m also worked well on game.
I had a good load worked up for the 130 eLD-m so I used it.
Well this is a good lesson not to believe everything you read on the internet
Good on you for showing the other side of the story tho. I respect that. Id be really upset losing that much meat. One of the reasons I moved to monolithic copper bullets. The only thing you need to worry about is blood shot meat. No lead and definitely no shredded meat. Destroys bone tho so have to be careful with shot placement.
You guys worry way too much about the match bullet thing. Ive used nothing but for over a decade now, never had a problem, especially when you shoot the right spot.
I used 140 g Berger VLD hunting on a mule deer and a Antelope last year with good results in different rifle.
I wasn't able to get as good of accuracy In the Rifle I used this year with the VLD hunting or I would of used them.
My mistake taking internet advise. At least the animal didn't go on for minutes and had expired when i got to her. no additional shots required. My intension of posting this was to inform others not to use this style bullet on game. Did it kill humanly, i'd say yes.
Would I use this bullet again, no. Lesson learned. Could I have had better shot placement, yes. I'm not a seasoned expert hunter. This was my 6 th deer I'd ever shot over a span of 30 years. It was blowing and snowing when I took the shot, approximately 19 degrees. Shooting in the field on game when your adrenaline is running, your laying on a cactus vs shooting steel off a benching in 80 degree weather just isn't the same. The other two guys were using 7mm remington magnums, one was shooting Sierra game Kings, the other was using VLD Hunting. Neither one of them had holes in there animals like I had.
I wasn't able to get as good of accuracy In the Rifle I used this year with the VLD hunting or I would of used them.
My mistake taking internet advise. At least the animal didn't go on for minutes and had expired when i got to her. no additional shots required. My intension of posting this was to inform others not to use this style bullet on game. Did it kill humanly, i'd say yes.
Would I use this bullet again, no. Lesson learned. Could I have had better shot placement, yes. I'm not a seasoned expert hunter. This was my 6 th deer I'd ever shot over a span of 30 years. It was blowing and snowing when I took the shot, approximately 19 degrees. Shooting in the field on game when your adrenaline is running, your laying on a cactus vs shooting steel off a benching in 80 degree weather just isn't the same. The other two guys were using 7mm remington magnums, one was shooting Sierra game Kings, the other was using VLD Hunting. Neither one of them had holes in there animals like I had.
If you are aware of the limitations, yes. If not you can lose meat or worse an animal. Whats wrong with a bullet meant for hunting?
You know what I would've been pissed about?
A lost wounded animal getting eaten alive ass first by coyotes. Or fire ants or w.e.
If you don't believe this, you are wrong. Plain and simple. Your goal as a recreational hunter is to kill the animal you chose as humanely and pain free as possible. Everything else is a distant secondary concern. I can say with 99.99% certainty that you are not hunting to survive.
Can you say definitely that using a different bullet would've changed the outcome? Maybe a better shot would've eliminated or reduced the meat loss?
Have people used ELD-ms with success for hunting? Absolutely. I can personally attest to it. I would also continue to recommend them because I fall into the category of shooter who believes that shot placement is the most critical element of humanely hunting.
Is there some risk using a match bullet for hunting, I'd say so. Does the benefit outweigh the risk? For me it does. I've never lost an animal using match bullets.
These are very small samples so they shouldn't carry undue weight.
A lost wounded animal getting eaten alive ass first by coyotes. Or fire ants or w.e.
If you don't believe this, you are wrong. Plain and simple. Your goal as a recreational hunter is to kill the animal you chose as humanely and pain free as possible. Everything else is a distant secondary concern. I can say with 99.99% certainty that you are not hunting to survive.
Can you say definitely that using a different bullet would've changed the outcome? Maybe a better shot would've eliminated or reduced the meat loss?
Have people used ELD-ms with success for hunting? Absolutely. I can personally attest to it. I would also continue to recommend them because I fall into the category of shooter who believes that shot placement is the most critical element of humanely hunting.
Is there some risk using a match bullet for hunting, I'd say so. Does the benefit outweigh the risk? For me it does. I've never lost an animal using match bullets.
These are very small samples so they shouldn't carry undue weight.
I’ve seen plenty of deer killed with 6.5 140 eld-m. If you are really concerned try the 143 eld-x. I often hunt with my match rifle. I shoot 140 eld-m by the hundreds all year long. No need to switch for 1 shot on a 100# deer. Last one I shot was at 169 yards. Right behind the shoulder, tennis ball size exit hole in off rib cage. 0 meat loss.
I find it hard to believe you had a giant “exit hole” sized hole on the Entry wound?
I find it hard to believe you had a giant “exit hole” sized hole on the Entry wound?
Nothing at all, people do it every day. But I’ve seen “hunting” bullets do the exact same thing described by the op, and I’ve seen em pencil through. They can all work, and they can all fail, which is why your point about knowing their limitations is very important. But even more important is hitting them in the right spot, far more important than the type of bullet.
I dont, I watched a 180 gr Hornady SST do far worse than that picture.
A proper hunting bullet is whichever one you can immediately and humanely kill an animal, just because there is a deer on the box doesn’t make it so.
Oh, I’ve seen quite a few “hunting bullet” “failures” over the years. Core/jacket separations, fragmentation, etc. But the animal was still dead. 
I've had similar experiences with old 150gr winchester silver tips in 300 h&h on an antelope at fairly close range. Huge 8 inch cratering entry wound and no exit wound. Same thing on a Grant's gazelle in eithopia. I would attribute it to high impact velocity and a thinly jacketed or poorly constructed bullet.
Watch a bullet in high speed hit steel, i would imagine that since most living things are mostly water and water doesn't compress well that you have a bullet or parts of a bullet disintegrating. Everything takes the path of least resistance. With a thinly jacketed bullet that path happens to be near/at the surface.
I would add that neither animal went further than 20 yards.
Watch a bullet in high speed hit steel, i would imagine that since most living things are mostly water and water doesn't compress well that you have a bullet or parts of a bullet disintegrating. Everything takes the path of least resistance. With a thinly jacketed bullet that path happens to be near/at the surface.
I would add that neither animal went further than 20 yards.
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I need to get my hip waders to get through all the BS in this thread
Smh
Smh
Just my two cents but one bad experience hardly should equal telling the whole interweb “don’t use this bullet for hunting!”. My small experience with 180 Eldm-m’s is two dead elk with two shots total. One last year at just over 400y and one this year @255y, I couldn’t be happier with the bullet performance. The one @400 had a fist size hole in the scapula and small exit wound (slightly quartering toward) not too much meat loss either. My thoughts are “they are accurate and maintain speed and energy way out there. If your expecting to take game at relatively short range and you are in the pie plate/ good enough clan then use a low bc crappy hunting bullet that claims all that controlled/engineered expansion mumbo jumbo. But if you want predictable high confidence shot placement at significant range go with a high bc accurate pill that will get exactly where you want it to go.
I have recovered perfectly mushroomed ELDm's, (match bullet) I have also recovered 190 VLD (Hunting) bullets that you could have almost loaded again. Shot elk with 6s, 6.5s, .300 winnies, .300 ultras, etc, etc, etc. I have also seen the ELDms create massive entrance wounds. Basically all sorts of bullets doing all sorts of weird shit that certainly doesn't line up with what you read in the brochure or see on the innerweb. I am firmly convinced that the reaction of the bullet is so violent and unpredictable that mileage may vary depending on the situation.
I was impressed with the Berger 140g VLDs
Killed a bear, muley and cow elk. None made it past 40 yards after being shot.
Rifle is a christensen arms ridgeline. Topped with a nightforce nxs. It shot the 140s sub MOA. My new favorite rifle.
Killed a bear, muley and cow elk. None made it past 40 yards after being shot.
Rifle is a christensen arms ridgeline. Topped with a nightforce nxs. It shot the 140s sub MOA. My new favorite rifle.
High speed bullets at close ranges, with match thin jackets, yeah, that's what happens. They explode.
I have a buddy that swears off the 7mm Mag because he once had a buddy shoot a dear in the guts at 15 yards that jumped them, and the damage to the guts was terrible. Yeah, no shit, shoot something in the guts with a magnum at 15 yards and that's what happens.
I have a buddy that swears off the 7mm Mag because he once had a buddy shoot a dear in the guts at 15 yards that jumped them, and the damage to the guts was terrible. Yeah, no shit, shoot something in the guts with a magnum at 15 yards and that's what happens.
I haven’t had a problem with the 147ELDM out of my PRC. I guess I’ve just been lucky. Couple antelope around 400ish, some whitetail bucks and does 700ish and a mule deer this year 800ish all have died in there tracks. No tracking required. This is a bullet pulled out of the offside of a whitetail buck shot at 702. I don’t remember the weight but it was around 85-90% remaining.
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I have had great success with 147 ELD-M (handload) and factory 129 SST
Shot placement = king
This is 6.5CM on whitetails at 225 yds, 404 yds, 416 yds, 440 yds, and 632 yds.......I'm sure I'll jinx myself by saying this but none have even taken one step...all DRT
Good thing is the deer expired fairly quick and meat was recovered.
Just shoot more in those conditions and replicate the same shooting position/setup. Most people who only shoot prone would be amazed at how different down range results are when you shoot positional especially out of an unsteady tree stand.
Thanks for sharing and good luck on the next hunt
Shot placement = king
This is 6.5CM on whitetails at 225 yds, 404 yds, 416 yds, 440 yds, and 632 yds.......I'm sure I'll jinx myself by saying this but none have even taken one step...all DRT
Good thing is the deer expired fairly quick and meat was recovered.
Just shoot more in those conditions and replicate the same shooting position/setup. Most people who only shoot prone would be amazed at how different down range results are when you shoot positional especially out of an unsteady tree stand.
Thanks for sharing and good luck on the next hunt
I think far too many people (and with some justification) because the marketing hype and then apply some interesting logic. A bullet marketed as a match bullet must have been designed as a match bullet and therefore cannot be expected to work in another other capacity, seems to be the logic. However, if marketing intent or design intent were the determining factors of function, then a lot of products we use today would be products we would not be using. One of my favorite examples is kevlar ballistic vests. Kevlar was designed to be used to replace the steel belting in vehicular tires, not to stop bullets. Hornady originally advertised their A-MAX bullets as match bullets, but then later advertised them for hunting as well after learning how many people were using them for hunting.
I test a variety of bullets on hogs in 6.5 Grendel. Some match bullets perform fairly well. Some are pathetic. Some varmint rounds do very well on hogs, even large boars. Some are pathetic. Most hunting rounds seem to perform as advertised, but a couple I have tried were not very good at all. Some hunting bullets perform exactly as advertised, but that sometimes turns out to not be the type of performance I want. Can't fault the manufacturer for delivering on what they said, however.
I could not agree more with this statement. I think if you buy most hunting loads that they are apt to be more likely to perform as advertised (so you know what to expect) than you might get from a match bullet because the manufacturer doesn't usually tell you what to expect when using match bullets for hunting.
The OP mentioned a fist sized hole on exit. What I have typically found when I see super large exit holes is not that the bullet is not the only factor at play. Generally the bullet has struck the spine (probably not in his case as the deer traveled some distance before expiring), or other large or dense bone (humerus, head/neck of scapula, femur, portions of pelvis) and the bullet and shards of bone tear out the large exit hole. While I have seen it on hogs, it has been most dramatically apparently on coyotes that are both smaller and much thinner skinned.
Large holes can also result from shots exit at an acute angle, such as on severely quartered shots where the bullet doesn't cross the body laterally, but travels down one side.
From what I have seen of ELD-M in 6.5 Grendel, I would offer that the bullet's behavior can vary quite a bit when going through the body. It may perform akin to a normal hunting bullet and expand nicely, but it may also break up quite irregularly. I know people like them for a variety of game, but their seemingly inconsistent behavior is bothersome.
With that said, use what you find works well for you. If you are able to put game on the ground quickly with the bullet that you are using, why change?
No one using a "new" round/bullet will know the results until it's used in real world application. So we take a chance when we select the round we intend to use. With your experience you seem like you are going to go a different route. Maybe someone else has had better experience with the same round will continue to use it.
In the end we share what we experience hoping to pass on potential concerns with other members. Thank you for sharing.
I can say we (my son and I) have used 129gn 6.5CM with no issues with the game DRT.
In the end we share what we experience hoping to pass on potential concerns with other members. Thank you for sharing.
I can say we (my son and I) have used 129gn 6.5CM with no issues with the game DRT.
My son put a 123 grain ELD-M from a 6.5 grendel through a south texas white tail buck over the weekend. The deer ran about 50 yards and tipped over in a sprint- antlers imbedded in the ground. He was dead when he took off but didn't know it yet. Double lung hit, right behind the shoulder, entry and exit wounds were not note-worthy. There was a fair amount of blood shot on the shoulders, but I haven't yet deboned them to take a close look. Honestly, it was no worse than the deer that I put an arrow through a month ago. Bloodshot meat happens. If you want to minimize it, shoot for the neck or head. I think a good amount of it comes from the deer taking off and rushing blood to those extremities. Drop the in their tracks and you'll see less, though you can't really eliminate it.
That deer was hit back: and if you wrecked the tenderloins I would imagine any bullet would have done that. If that bullet ran though the rib cage this thread wouldn't exist.
Looks pretty good to me. Seen a lot less destruction with a lot bigger cartridges. Granted that’s a small critter too tho.
I got bags full of loins if ur worried. I think they taste gross. Dog Tucker or sausage meat in our house.
I got bags full of loins if ur worried. I think they taste gross. Dog Tucker or sausage meat in our house.
Meanwhile, I got a deer over the weekend with Cabela's Herter's 30-06 ammo at 120 yards...
...granted, it was a paper deer target. But I digress...
...granted, it was a paper deer target. But I digress...
Well, I processed my son’s deer on Tuesday. I have to admit, when I pulled the near side shoulder out of the ice chest, I wasn’t terribly optimistic...
The bullet didn’t hit the shoulder, entering just behind, but it still made a mess. This was a 123 gr ELD-M at 65 yards, with a MV of 2450 fps.
But, as I hope you can see in the image below, there was very little waste (mostly jellied blood in the steel bowl). I did find fragments in the far side shoulder, but the total volume of waste was less on that one. Entry and exit wounds were roughly the same size, but the bullet did fragment- which I consider to be less than optimal in a round used on game destined for the table.
The bullet didn’t hit the shoulder, entering just behind, but it still made a mess. This was a 123 gr ELD-M at 65 yards, with a MV of 2450 fps.
But, as I hope you can see in the image below, there was very little waste (mostly jellied blood in the steel bowl). I did find fragments in the far side shoulder, but the total volume of waste was less on that one. Entry and exit wounds were roughly the same size, but the bullet did fragment- which I consider to be less than optimal in a round used on game destined for the table.
