I have decided on which rifle I want to purchase. Cooper is now making their Varmint Laminate in LH configuration. So I decided on one of the Cooper's. This decision leaves me enough money to buy the optics I want. I have decided on a 6.5 mm cartridge. They have 3 choices. The 6.5 CreedMore, 260 Remington, and 6.5X55 Swede. I was leaning toward the 260 Remington, but I have heard some bad things about the brass. The 6.5 Swede appeals to me because of the availabilty of Lapua brass. What do you guys think about these cartridge's?? Which do you consider best?? This will be a hunting rifle. Long range deer and some varminting. Out to about 800 yards. Thanks, Tom.
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6.5 Cartridge Decision
- Thread starter HOGGHEAD
- Start date
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
I think your not limited to just Remmy brass anymore, Terry Cross posted in a thread one time about the multitude of options now, maybe he'll find this and chime in.
I think it's pretty tit for tat. I went with the Creedmoor recently b/c I was uninformed at the time that other options were out there for the Rem brass on the .260. It was kinda a haste decision, as in the smith was standing there with the barrel asking "what'll it be?" so I went with the CM.
The rifle shoots great, only complaint I have is how slow it is, but I think that's an issue with the barrel, not so much the ammo. I just got my dies in today, so I plan on loading up some of my own ammo and try to heat them up a bit to fix the problem.
I was turned on by the affordable match ammo from Hornady, but sadly, it looks like I won't be able to take advantage of using the factory ammo with this barrel. Which really sucks b/c the CM brass is so expensive, it's almost cheaper to buy the factory ammo then all the components to load!
I'm loading up some 139 Scenars this weekend and gonna see what kind of velocity I can get.
I think your not limited to just Remmy brass anymore, Terry Cross posted in a thread one time about the multitude of options now, maybe he'll find this and chime in.
I think it's pretty tit for tat. I went with the Creedmoor recently b/c I was uninformed at the time that other options were out there for the Rem brass on the .260. It was kinda a haste decision, as in the smith was standing there with the barrel asking "what'll it be?" so I went with the CM.
The rifle shoots great, only complaint I have is how slow it is, but I think that's an issue with the barrel, not so much the ammo. I just got my dies in today, so I plan on loading up some of my own ammo and try to heat them up a bit to fix the problem.
I was turned on by the affordable match ammo from Hornady, but sadly, it looks like I won't be able to take advantage of using the factory ammo with this barrel. Which really sucks b/c the CM brass is so expensive, it's almost cheaper to buy the factory ammo then all the components to load!
I'm loading up some 139 Scenars this weekend and gonna see what kind of velocity I can get.
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
I love 6.5's I am currently shooting a 6.5x47L (65L) in F-class and it great as it does not take a lot of powder and Lapua makes the brass for it so the brass lasts and lasts and needs little to no prep. I want something in 6.5 with a little more speed and I am having a 6.5 x 55 AI reamer with the same freebore as my 65L. Why go with the Swede instead of the 260 or a 260 AI, Lapua makes the native brass and that is a good thing. I realize there are good options for brass that can be formed into a 260.
Remember most of the data you will see in the reloading manuals for the Swede are light because there are a lot of small ring mausers running around that may not be able to handle modern pressures. Years back I bought a dozen model 96's with cracked stocks for $49 a piece and it was the best gun purchase ever as they were beautiful. I still have a couple left and one of the non-matching numbers was sporterized and taken some deer.
The great thing today is there are a lot of good choices and I would guess you will be happy with either route.
Just some thoughts,
I love 6.5's I am currently shooting a 6.5x47L (65L) in F-class and it great as it does not take a lot of powder and Lapua makes the brass for it so the brass lasts and lasts and needs little to no prep. I want something in 6.5 with a little more speed and I am having a 6.5 x 55 AI reamer with the same freebore as my 65L. Why go with the Swede instead of the 260 or a 260 AI, Lapua makes the native brass and that is a good thing. I realize there are good options for brass that can be formed into a 260.
Remember most of the data you will see in the reloading manuals for the Swede are light because there are a lot of small ring mausers running around that may not be able to handle modern pressures. Years back I bought a dozen model 96's with cracked stocks for $49 a piece and it was the best gun purchase ever as they were beautiful. I still have a couple left and one of the non-matching numbers was sporterized and taken some deer.
The great thing today is there are a lot of good choices and I would guess you will be happy with either route.
Just some thoughts,
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
Norma and Nosler also make 260 brass. However it is pretty pricey. Tom.
Norma and Nosler also make 260 brass. However it is pretty pricey. Tom.
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
Go with the swede. You may be picked on for being old school, but it is a good long range shooter with good barrell life. Like wwbrown stated, if it isn't fast enough, run an AI reamer in it. I have had good luck with winchester brass also. Just my .02
Go with the swede. You may be picked on for being old school, but it is a good long range shooter with good barrell life. Like wwbrown stated, if it isn't fast enough, run an AI reamer in it. I have had good luck with winchester brass also. Just my .02
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Six Five Guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go with the swede. You may be picked on for being old school, but it is a good long range shooter with good barrell life. Like wwbrown stated, if it isn't fast enough, run an AI reamer in it. I have had good luck with winchester brass also. Just my .02 </div></div>
What kind of velocity can I expect from the Swede with 139 or 140 grain bullets?? I have had a hard time finding good modern data because of the old rifles. Thanks, Tom.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Six Five Guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go with the swede. You may be picked on for being old school, but it is a good long range shooter with good barrell life. Like wwbrown stated, if it isn't fast enough, run an AI reamer in it. I have had good luck with winchester brass also. Just my .02 </div></div>
What kind of velocity can I expect from the Swede with 139 or 140 grain bullets?? I have had a hard time finding good modern data because of the old rifles. Thanks, Tom.
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
Basically, it's a question you can only answer with researching the 3 calibers and applying it to your rifle (magazine length options). They all 3 have pros and cons. I shoot a 260 Rem, and the Rem brass is good. My rifle shoots then well. I am on my second loading, so I can't speak of the longevity yet. I do like the Nosler brass, and use it in my 300WM. If you want great brass with more reloads, I'd lean to the Nosler. You can also neck down Win 7mm-08 brass, and use that for a 260. The Swede will hold a little more powder, and in a modern rifle should hold a slight edge on velocity. But it's longer than a 260, and may have trouble with certain magazine systems. So, it's really a choice only you can answer. But, they are all very close in performace.
Basically, it's a question you can only answer with researching the 3 calibers and applying it to your rifle (magazine length options). They all 3 have pros and cons. I shoot a 260 Rem, and the Rem brass is good. My rifle shoots then well. I am on my second loading, so I can't speak of the longevity yet. I do like the Nosler brass, and use it in my 300WM. If you want great brass with more reloads, I'd lean to the Nosler. You can also neck down Win 7mm-08 brass, and use that for a 260. The Swede will hold a little more powder, and in a modern rifle should hold a slight edge on velocity. But it's longer than a 260, and may have trouble with certain magazine systems. So, it's really a choice only you can answer. But, they are all very close in performace.
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
here some good reading. im on the same boat soon i, gonna have to make a desicion.
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
here some good reading. im on the same boat soon i, gonna have to make a desicion.
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
I spent weeks studying on the 6.5mm choices. I read all the articles I could find. Originally, I started the thought process with 260AI or 6.5x47L. Finally settled on and completed a build in regular 260. I like the 260 performance. I'm using mostly reformed Winchester 7-08 brass and some of the softer Remington 260 brass.
I spent weeks studying on the 6.5mm choices. I read all the articles I could find. Originally, I started the thought process with 260AI or 6.5x47L. Finally settled on and completed a build in regular 260. I like the 260 performance. I'm using mostly reformed Winchester 7-08 brass and some of the softer Remington 260 brass.
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
Hogghead, Im using Hodgdon's Hybrid 100 powder for the 6.5x55 driving 140 vld's. Im at near max load but haven't shot any over a chrono yet. As soon as I do I'll let you know how fast they are runnin. I am also using this powder in a 6.5-06 and a 243 all on tikka actions. This powder is the cat's meow for the 6.5's. Just my .02
Hogghead, Im using Hodgdon's Hybrid 100 powder for the 6.5x55 driving 140 vld's. Im at near max load but haven't shot any over a chrono yet. As soon as I do I'll let you know how fast they are runnin. I am also using this powder in a 6.5-06 and a 243 all on tikka actions. This powder is the cat's meow for the 6.5's. Just my .02
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have decided on which rifle I want to purchase. Cooper is now making their Varmint Laminate in LH configuration. So I decided on one of the Cooper's. This decision leaves me enough money to buy the optics I want. I have decided on a 6.5 mm cartridge. They have 3 choices. The 6.5 CreedMore, 260 Remington, and 6.5X55 Swede. I was leaning toward the 260 Remington, but I have heard some bad things about the brass. The 6.5 Swede appeals to me because of the availabilty of Lapua brass. What do you guys think about these cartridge's?? Which do you consider best?? This will be a hunting rifle. Long range deer and some varminting. Out to about 800 yards. Thanks, Tom. </div></div>
Tom -
Terry Cross is the God of all things 6.5mm. (No, really. He is!) He knows more about 6.5mm cartridges than anyone I have ever met. I take Terry's opinion ABOVE all other's. His article will help you out.
Terry Cross' 6.5mm cartridge selection opinion
Whatever you heard about "bad .260 brass" is less than the whole truth. The .260 has an outstanding selection of brass available for it.
FWIW - My opinion is that it's a ballistic toss-up regarding 260 Remington, 6.5 creedmoor, or 6.5x47 Lapua.
Also, IMO, the best brass I've seen for any of these three cartridges is made by Nosler (excellent quality - high price) and by Lapua (excellent value - good / hard brass). Those two sources do not supply 6.5mm Creedmore brass. How good is the Creedmore brass made by Hornady? I don't know.
260 Remington
---------------------------------------
Nosler is making Remington .260 brass. Great stuff / very expensive.
Lapua also makes excellent .243 win brass which can be "necked up" (a total pain in the ass, but I do it with great results) to .260 Remington.
Winchester is making some excellent 7mm-08 brass that is good and hard (will last a long time) significantly less expensive than Nosler or Lapua brass and only required a quick neck sizing down (very quick and easy to do) to resize into being .260 Remington brass.
Remington makes .260 Remington brass, but it's not that great. Still good enough to hit an 18 inch target at 1000 yards, though. I use a lot of Remington brass. However, I don't really give a crap if I can't find all my Remington brass after I'm done shooting.
6.5x47 Lapua
------------------------------------------
Lapua is making 6.5x47 brass (excellent cartridge engineering and an all around outstanding cartridge) which is rapidly gaining popularity.
Lapua, and only Lapua is making this brass. I love this brass and the overall cartridge design, but it's still single source and priced as such.
This brass has been widely accepted in both the original 6.5mm and necked down to 6mm versions for match shooting. I firmly believe that this brass will be around for a very long time.
The performance of these cartridges (6.5x47 Lapua and 6-6.5x47 Lapua) is excellent! I wild-catted the heck out of this brass and got some truly amazing results. FWIW - the 6.5x47 Lapua is my favorite brass and my favorite cartridge of these three cartridges! And yes, I do shoot a .260 Remington.
6.5mm Creedmore
---------------------------------------
There is a single source for 6.5mm Creedmore brass and that is Hornady. As long as Hornady keeps the price down and supplies up, you should be good to go.
Some people swear by this cartridge, I've only read about it.
According to what I've read, the 6.5mm Creedmore is NOT a high pressure cartridge. Be forewarned if your intent is to "super charge" this cartridge.
the 6.5mm Creedmore's LOW pressure means barrels last longer. If that is what you are looking for, then go for it. It certainly is a less expensive way to shoot if you shoot alot and are concerned about burning out barrels.
Most importantly, there is so much that I DON'T KNOW about the 6.5mm Creedmore that my opinion is darn near worthless. I strongly suggest lots of Google searches regarding 6.5 Creedmore and reading every article you can find on the subject.
Here's one to start you off - http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
also use the specialized Google Sniper's Hide search engine.
Google's Specialized Sniper's Hide search engine
Best of luck Tom!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have decided on which rifle I want to purchase. Cooper is now making their Varmint Laminate in LH configuration. So I decided on one of the Cooper's. This decision leaves me enough money to buy the optics I want. I have decided on a 6.5 mm cartridge. They have 3 choices. The 6.5 CreedMore, 260 Remington, and 6.5X55 Swede. I was leaning toward the 260 Remington, but I have heard some bad things about the brass. The 6.5 Swede appeals to me because of the availabilty of Lapua brass. What do you guys think about these cartridge's?? Which do you consider best?? This will be a hunting rifle. Long range deer and some varminting. Out to about 800 yards. Thanks, Tom. </div></div>
Tom -
Terry Cross is the God of all things 6.5mm. (No, really. He is!) He knows more about 6.5mm cartridges than anyone I have ever met. I take Terry's opinion ABOVE all other's. His article will help you out.
Terry Cross' 6.5mm cartridge selection opinion
Whatever you heard about "bad .260 brass" is less than the whole truth. The .260 has an outstanding selection of brass available for it.
FWIW - My opinion is that it's a ballistic toss-up regarding 260 Remington, 6.5 creedmoor, or 6.5x47 Lapua.
Also, IMO, the best brass I've seen for any of these three cartridges is made by Nosler (excellent quality - high price) and by Lapua (excellent value - good / hard brass). Those two sources do not supply 6.5mm Creedmore brass. How good is the Creedmore brass made by Hornady? I don't know.
260 Remington
---------------------------------------
Nosler is making Remington .260 brass. Great stuff / very expensive.
Lapua also makes excellent .243 win brass which can be "necked up" (a total pain in the ass, but I do it with great results) to .260 Remington.
Winchester is making some excellent 7mm-08 brass that is good and hard (will last a long time) significantly less expensive than Nosler or Lapua brass and only required a quick neck sizing down (very quick and easy to do) to resize into being .260 Remington brass.
Remington makes .260 Remington brass, but it's not that great. Still good enough to hit an 18 inch target at 1000 yards, though. I use a lot of Remington brass. However, I don't really give a crap if I can't find all my Remington brass after I'm done shooting.
6.5x47 Lapua
------------------------------------------
Lapua is making 6.5x47 brass (excellent cartridge engineering and an all around outstanding cartridge) which is rapidly gaining popularity.
Lapua, and only Lapua is making this brass. I love this brass and the overall cartridge design, but it's still single source and priced as such.
This brass has been widely accepted in both the original 6.5mm and necked down to 6mm versions for match shooting. I firmly believe that this brass will be around for a very long time.
The performance of these cartridges (6.5x47 Lapua and 6-6.5x47 Lapua) is excellent! I wild-catted the heck out of this brass and got some truly amazing results. FWIW - the 6.5x47 Lapua is my favorite brass and my favorite cartridge of these three cartridges! And yes, I do shoot a .260 Remington.
6.5mm Creedmore
---------------------------------------
There is a single source for 6.5mm Creedmore brass and that is Hornady. As long as Hornady keeps the price down and supplies up, you should be good to go.
Some people swear by this cartridge, I've only read about it.
According to what I've read, the 6.5mm Creedmore is NOT a high pressure cartridge. Be forewarned if your intent is to "super charge" this cartridge.
the 6.5mm Creedmore's LOW pressure means barrels last longer. If that is what you are looking for, then go for it. It certainly is a less expensive way to shoot if you shoot alot and are concerned about burning out barrels.
Most importantly, there is so much that I DON'T KNOW about the 6.5mm Creedmore that my opinion is darn near worthless. I strongly suggest lots of Google searches regarding 6.5 Creedmore and reading every article you can find on the subject.
Here's one to start you off - http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
also use the specialized Google Sniper's Hide search engine.
Google's Specialized Sniper's Hide search engine
Best of luck Tom!
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
According to what I've read, the 6.5mm Creedmore is NOT a high pressure cartridge. Be forewarned if your intent is to "super charge" this cartridge.
</div></div>
Just to clarify, the 6.5 Creedmoor is not high pressure from the factory as it doesn't need to be to get the velocities. That said it's <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT</span> because it can't be pushed harder in reloading or handle pressure like any other cartridge would. I have loaded mine up so I have the 140 AMAX at 2870fps. A full grn over listed box load and after 4 loadings primer pockets are still tight and no pressure signs.
Don't think that because Hornady loaded them to lower pressures that they can't be hot rodded like any other cartridge by the reloader.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
According to what I've read, the 6.5mm Creedmore is NOT a high pressure cartridge. Be forewarned if your intent is to "super charge" this cartridge.
</div></div>
Just to clarify, the 6.5 Creedmoor is not high pressure from the factory as it doesn't need to be to get the velocities. That said it's <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT</span> because it can't be pushed harder in reloading or handle pressure like any other cartridge would. I have loaded mine up so I have the 140 AMAX at 2870fps. A full grn over listed box load and after 4 loadings primer pockets are still tight and no pressure signs.
Don't think that because Hornady loaded them to lower pressures that they can't be hot rodded like any other cartridge by the reloader.
Re: 6.5 Cartridge Decision
Since I have a 700 LA for a ready donor, I'm going with the Swede on m next build. Much the same as you, I spent months reading all I could before coming to that. With very similar ballistics with close to the same powder, it'll work well for me. No short action, but I'll never compete, a quicker cycling gun really would not change how I shoot. The biggest choice for the Swede for me came down to the sheer lengh of time it's been around. It's not as in vogue as what really are pretty awesome 6.5's, but for price, performance, and off the shelf ammo availability, it'll work for me.
Since I have a 700 LA for a ready donor, I'm going with the Swede on m next build. Much the same as you, I spent months reading all I could before coming to that. With very similar ballistics with close to the same powder, it'll work well for me. No short action, but I'll never compete, a quicker cycling gun really would not change how I shoot. The biggest choice for the Swede for me came down to the sheer lengh of time it's been around. It's not as in vogue as what really are pretty awesome 6.5's, but for price, performance, and off the shelf ammo availability, it'll work for me.
