6.5 CM or 260 Rem

[JayCarver]

I've been searching and reading about 6.5 calibers for the last couple weeks. I have a Surgeon 591 and ordered a 6.5 1in8" barrel. I realize that there's not much difference in the ballistics but there's some pro's and con's to each. One thing I'm worried about is seating depth of the 260 in AICS mags. Not sure if this can be fixed with some reamer's with less freebore, then is the bullet pushed back into the case too far?

So whats some pros and cons for each? Not looking for replies like "Get a 260, mine shoots great". Looking to find out which route you would go if you were starting without anything into one or the other.

Thanks

 

[Longshot38]

Both are fantastic cartridges. The one thing that wins a lot of people over in regards to the 260 is the brass. Lapua brass is available and it is of the quality of we expect from Lapua. With all that being said I run a 6.5 CM because it is in a gas gun. And the 6.5 CM is designed around getting the best possible preformance in a gas gun. The brass is of good quality but I wouldn't call it Lapua quality. I know there are some guys around here running the round in bolt guns and do so very well. I just don't have experience there.

 

[BLDTYLRY]

A run a 260Rem in a bolt gun. Main reason is the availability of Lapua Brass and the ability to convert 308 WIN brass to 260 Rem if needed. Other than that, no other reason.

 

[BobinNC]

On paper the 6.5 CM case is 1.920" long, the 260 Rem's case is 2.035" long. Genuine AICS 308 length mags allow a max cartridge length of 2.880"

Either round will work out of an regular AICS mag, both are accurate, but a 260 will have 0.115" more of the bullet seated deeper into the case than with the same bullet seated into 6.5 CM case.

Even shorter, for your consideration, is the excellent 6.5 Lapua, which is only 1.900" long. Those feed exceptionally well from unmodified AICS mags, use SR primers, and feature Lapua brass.

All are accurate rounds, it is only a matter of which brass you prefer buying ($), which primer (LR or SR) and how much bullet you want inside the case, for your application and mag type.

 

[thrusty]

There's a fun thread about this same question...lemme give you the summary.

The brass is a little shorter in the 6.5Creed than it is in the 260Rem...that's the answer to your mag-length quandary.
The brass in the 260 has more case volume, so, technically, you will be able to add a bit more propellant and achieve a little more velocity.
You can get brass for the 260 from Lapua....which, apparently, makes any gun shoot better.
You can get brass for the 6.5Creed from Hornady....apparently, this caliber sucks because it's not Lapua brass.
260 factory match ammo is a little more expensive...probably due to the long trip it took to get Lapua brass here from God himself.
6.5Creed factory match ammo is a little more affordable...and it also includes a load recipe if you buy Hornady ammo (the load sucks because Lapua brass isn't in the recipe).
Both use the same projectiles.
Both are short action.
Both like H4350.
Both have good barrel life.
How many wildcats are there on the 260 brass? Honestly, IDK
How many wildcats are there on the 6.5Creed brass: 22Creed, 6Creed, 6.5Creed
Both have light recoil.
But only one has Lapua brass for it...so, there's only one clear winner..........6.5 Creedmoor.


Joking and sarcasm aside, you can't lose with either caliber. My vote is for the Creed though.

 

[Rhyno]

Haha that's sums it up, I'm almost to the point where I want to boycott anything Lapua because of the supposed godly quality of it all.

You could and people have formed brass from 22-250 to 6.5 CM.

 

[Niles Coyote]

The only negative in my mind on the creedmoor is single source brass. Have you checked with surgeon on what mags will work in it? IIRC I believe I read it is now made to accept aw's... but confirm that with them. My chamber specs in both my 260's will run some BTHP's like the 142 smk, 139 lapua and 140 a-max into the lands if I wish and are still AICS friendly but VLD bullets from berger are just a bit too long... With the AW mag it’s a non issue. My freebore is .098... Now if I were to do things over I would look closely at the 6.5 Super LR

6.5 Super LR

 

[Eastbay]

Haha that's sums it up, I'm almost to the point where I want to boycott anything Lapua because of the supposed godly quality of it all.

You could and people have formed brass from 22-250 to 6.5 CM.

Exactly. I'd go 6.5 cm

 

[thrusty]

The only negative in my mind on the creedmoor is single source brass.

Well said...and true.......as of today.
Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 6.5 Creedmoor Box of 50

 

[dtibbals]

I went 6.5CM...I debated this exact same thing for close to a year. I did a custom rifle with GA Precision and when I asked George what would he do if given the choice of 6.5CM, 6.5x47 Lapua, or 260 he did not hesitate and said 6.5CM. So that is what I did and I could not be happier. Everyone talks about Lapua now making 260 brass but a couple of things, 1) it is SUPER expensive, 2) not easy to come by and 3) Hornady 6.5CM brass is the same cost as 308 winchester and easy to get a hold of. I bought 500 pieces of brass and figure by the time I have worn out all my brass I will be on a second barrel by then. So I really don't see any advantage in the whole Lapua makes it. Yes I know it is great brass but sure would not be a deciding factor for me.

Also given the two calibers debated here the 6.5CM has match ammo available at 308 pricing and easy to get. Also it is so easy to reload for it is stupid. It really is like the 6.5x47 in the sense it is challenging to find a bad load. 260 on the other hand is a bit more finicky. So do as you wish but I am super happy with 6.5CM and George recommended it so whats not to like

 

[Rhyno]

I actually also just made the same decision.

I choose the 260, for a couple of reasons, one I couldn't find dies for the 6.5cm at the time. Two I had a lot of 308 brass, (now 260 brass).

The fact that I couldn't find 6.5CM dies scared me about the brass, while it's been available it scared me. Meanwhile 260 brass had a few ore sources and was easy to form from other cases.

If I was wanting to shoot factory loads though I would have went 6.5CM because there's nothing for 260 Remington. Haha.

 

[JayCarver]

So does the whole decision come down to the brass? I use lapua brass in most of my other precision rifles but I'm not married to it.

For S&G's I added up the cost of loading 6.5 Creedmore with Hornady brass and 140gr Amax and it's actually cheaper up here to just buy the factory 140gr Amax loads. So I would probably just buy 500rds or so and then reload from their.

I think I'm gonna go with the 6.5CM, If for some reason I find that I really want Lapua brass I guess I could just make it from something else like 22-250. I still have this little voice in my head telling me to just go with a 6mm but I'm concerned about barrel life.

Thanks for all the replies guys.

 

[JayCarver]

Have you checked with surgeon on what mags will work in it? IIRC I believe I read it is now made to accept aw's...

You had me all excited, I went to check my action and it's not AW mag compatible, there's no slots machined out for the wider AW feed lips but the feed ramps of the action look wide enough to feed ramps from the side so it may just be a matter of opening up the action for the feed lips which shouldn't be all that involved, the front of the mag well opening looks like its pushed far enough ahead thou, I'm going to have to call them.

 

[bjay]

Same dilema before.. i went with 260 when asked my smith which should i go he answred, everything a 6.5cm can do 260 can but not the otherway around. Like capacity that gives better fps.. reloading components option like dies brass from 308,7mm08, 243 they can all ne 260....oh lapua that made by zeus..since everyone keep comparing the two i decided to try creed... BUT 6mm creed maybe i didnt want two 6.5love both!

 

[Rob01]

everything a 6.5cm can do 260 can but not the otherway around. Like capacity that gives better fps..

Not true. The Creedmoor can do anything ballistically the .260 can. I am running 140 AMAX at 2930fps from my Creedmoor with not a hint of pressure.

Been shooting the Creedmoor since 2008 and it's never left me wanting in anything from performance, brass or ammo. I shoot factory 140s at matches and they perform.

5 Shots at 100 yards with factory 140 AMAX

 

[Graham]

6.5 CM or 260 Rem

What is the difference in powder capacity between the two?

 

[BoilerUP]

I have two 260s and am thrilled with them.

That said, if I was getting my first 6.5 I'd go with Creedmoor due to availability/price of brass and factory match ammo.

 

[JayCarver]

Not true. The Creedmoor can do anything ballistically the .260 can. I am running 140 AMAX at 2930fps from my Creedmoor with not a hint of pressure.

Been shooting the Creedmoor since 2008 and it's never left me wanting in anything from performance, brass or ammo. I shoot factory 140s at matches and they perform.

5 Shots at 100 yards with factory 140 AMAX

Rob, what's your barrel length and how many reloads are you getting out of your brass? Just wondering what to expect, I know no two rifles are the same thou.

 

[Rob01]

Barrel started at 28" and is at 26.5" now. Have some brass at 8 loadings and still going but those are testing brass as I usually end up losing most of my brass at matches.

 

[JayCarver]

Barrel started at 28" and is at 26.5" now. Have some brass at 8 loadings and still going but those are testing brass as I usually end up losing most of my brass at matches.

Was the 140 AMAX at 2930fps with the barrel at 28"?

 

[Rob01]

26.5" is the barrel length giving me that velocity. Was set back and rechambered at GAP where it was built originally back in 2008.

 

[JayCarver]

Thanks for the replies Rob, have you been running this setup long enough to have a idea on barrel life?

 

[dtibbals]

26.5" is the barrel length giving me that velocity. Was set back and rechambered at GAP where it was built originally back in 2008.

My 6.5CM is a GAP...what kind of round count do you have on your barrel?

 

[Rob01]

Had about 2200 through it when I decided to set it back. Throat was growing a little and seeing as I only shoot factory ammo at matches I wanted it a little shorter. If i was loading all my ammo I would have just left it as it was and kept shooting.

 

[sfogold]

Same diff....just remember, 260 Lapua brass backing up a 139 Lapua Scenar is a match made in heaven.....lol

 

[BobinNC]

Same dilema before.. i went with 260 when asked my smith which should i go he answred, everything a 6.5cm can do 260 can but not the otherway around. Like capacity that gives better fps.. reloading components option like dies brass from 308,7mm08, 243 they can all ne 260....oh lapua that made by zeus..since everyone keep comparing the two i decided to try creed... BUT 6mm creed maybe i didnt want two 6.5love both!

Just for those keeping score at home:

.260 Case capacity = 53.5 grains
6.5 CM case Capacity = 53 grains (or 0.9% less than the 260)
6.5x47 Lapua Case capacity = 51 grains (or 4.6% less than the 260 Rem.)

But once you stuff a bullet in all three cases, the 260 Rem loses most of it's volume advantage compared to the 6.5 CM & the 6.5x47 Lapua, when bullets are seated to unmodified AICS mag. length or shorter. Any major differences in velocity between these three exist only in the mind of the beholder......

I'm not arguing one over the other, as they are all excellent, just trying to keep the record straight.

 

[GONE BAD]

Well I went with the 260.....again! The reason being I have everything to reload for it. I also have a 260 imp.30 reamer that I'm thinking I want to use and yes I have the dies for it also.
Now if I was just starting I might want to try the 6.5-47 or the 6.5 cm.

 

[sanman28]

Ive been following the 260 vs 6.5 stuff for a while....as an outsider. I dont reload at this juncture either. But i have noticed that people seem to recommend the 6.5 for those that dont reload based on the availability of the factory match ammo. That being said, there is 3 or 4x more factory ammo(maybe not "match grade") for the 260. Is it all crap?

 

[BLDTYLRY]

Here's a good article that compares the 6.5CM vs 260Rem vs 6.5x47: http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

Just for those keeping score at home:

.260 Case capacity = 53.5 grains
6.5 CM case Capacity = 53 grains (or 0.9% less than the 260)
6.5x47 Lapua Case capacity = 51 grains (or 4.6% less than the 260 Rem.)

My 260 Lapua brass measures 54.8 grains.

Ive been following the 260 vs 6.5 stuff for a while....as an outsider. I dont reload at this juncture either. But i have noticed that people seem to recommend the 6.5 for those that dont reload based on the availability of the factory match ammo. That being said, there is 3 or 4x more factory ammo(maybe not "match grade") for the 260. Is it all crap?

Probably because 260 is the oldest of the three.

 

[BoilerUP]

None of the "big" ammo manufacturers makes match ammo for the 260. Federal has had 142gr SMK Gold Medal Match load available "in a few weeks" for nearly two years now, and the street price is close to $40 per box.

Hornady is the only game in town for 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, but it has proven to be consistent and accurate, and fairly affordable around at $25/box which is the same price or cheaper than 308 FGMM. If you don't reload, you can save your Creedmoor brass and sell it to help fund more loaded factory ammo.

Of course companies like Cor-Bon & Black Hills, along with Southwest Ammunition, Copper Creek, etc. offer loaded 260 Match ammo but they are pretty much mail order propositions at a price point higher than Hornady 140gr A-Max Creedmoor ammo.

 

[JayCarver]

Going with the 6.5CM, thanks for all the help guys.

 

[BookHound]

I went 6.5 CM. I don't have time to re-load and frankly don't enjoy it. I'd rather spend that time with my 1-year old daughter and her beautiful mother. The Hornady 140-grain A-Max load is outstanding for factory ammo. The .260 factory stuff is more expensive. Thus, I went 6.5CM and couldn't be happier.

In our shop we see it coming down to Lapua brass. The guys who are die hard Lapua brass fans will pick the .260 and be happy.

Neither are a bad choice.

Mark

 

[Skigolfmike]

Well said...and true.......as of today.
Nosler Custom Reloading Brass 6.5 Creedmoor Box of 50

Might be higher quality - might not be. Definately more expensive and I'd less concerned about losing Hornaday brass at a match. But will it shoot better and/or last longer to be worth the extra cost? Me being me, I'll probably get 100 pieces and see.

 

[RobertB]

If hanfloafing isn't always an option go cm. If not, doesn't matter, I have a gap 6.5 cm, a surgeon 260, and a custom 6.5lapua. They all are to close to tell apart ballistically. Havingnonr over the other will not make you hit/miss anything you would have.

I recommend buying the one you feel like buying. If one seems better for any reason buy it.

And just FYI. I find myself shooting the cm the most. Don'thave a real reason . Just how it worked out.

Good luck!

 

[bunsen27]

I have both just for S&G's. Primary match rifle is a .260Rem and my secondary is a 6.5Creedy. Spring 2014 I will be adding a 6.5 SAUM.

 

[Cobracutter]

Thank you for creating a thread, that already hasn't been made about 100 times in the last 5 years.

 

[tho98027]

26.5" is the barrel length giving me that velocity. Was set back and rechambered at GAP where it was built originally back in 2008.

What twist and rifling you have? What powder and how much? Just curious.

 

[Rob01]

What twist and rifling you have? What powder and how much? Just curious.

It's an 8 twist standard 4 groove barrel. Using 43.5grns of H4350. Definitely don't start there though as some people's rifles might not like that stout a charge.

 

[superde]

It's an 8 twist standard 4 groove barrel. Using 43.5grns of H4350. Definitely don't start there though as some people's rifles might not like that stout a charge.

Wow Rob! I'm on my 2nd 260, and 4th barrel in 260 overall. 43.1 is as high as i've ever gotten before showing pressure, and when the ammo got wet in a match, it was over pressure. I stick at 42.5 now, which seems to shoot well in everything with a 142 SMK. You must have some magic juju going, lol.

My next barrel is 6.5 SLR to see if I can get more life out of it.

 

[Rob01]

LOL Nope just the way it is. Every one is different as you know unless George did some special dance around it when it was being barreled

 

[bjay]

On show your 6.5 and 260 thread i post mu custom defiance 260 bartlein 24" 1:8 twist load h4350 42.8 139scenars 2860 fps i got to 29**fps with 43.4gr but preasure bad.and accuracy wasnt there rob thats a great fps.. on my comments on that thread showing result 500yd 1 3/8 center to center (.263 moa) im ok with that im about to replace barrel.. 1.8.5 for 130grainer this better hit 3k fps

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

 

[RobertB]

If it will help you decide I'll say go with the CM. It does everything a 260 can do, you can get good priced factory ammo, brass wont hold you back. Personally, I've got 8K pieces of brass so that's no issue, I have win 7-08 brass and Lapua for my 260, and accuracy isn't any better. You got some play room for when you start chasing the lands in a AICS mag and you can handload or buy factory and swap them out whenever you want. If brass is the only issue then its no big deal for me. I love my 6.5Lapua and my 260 and love the brass its in but I have no problem going to shoot my 260 with win brass, didn't keep me from getting first round hits at 1030 yds at a match. My factory CM ammo will do the same thing. Get the CM and be done, go ahead and get the ball on the build rolling. That alone will make you happier than anything. Nwither will help/hurt you. If you miss, its your fault.

Good Luck!

 

[Pusher591]

Thank you for creating a thread, that already hasn't been made about 100 times in the last 5 years.

Thank you for commenting on a thread, where again, you bring nothing to the table.

OP, flip a coin. Both are great rounds. I chose 6.5 Creed because I do not reload and when factory ammo is in stock, its not that much more then 308. Before everything flew off the shelves factory 140 was going for $22.50-$23.50 a box. I can still find it for $24.99 a box now.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Looking at these speeds, I'm feeling like I've got a super slow barrel on my .260. 24" barrel and I'm getting 2,780 with 43.5 grains H4350...

 

[Pusher591]

Looking at these speeds, I'm feeling like I've got a super slow barrel on my .260. 24" barrel and I'm getting 2,780 with 43.5 grains H4350...

For some reason Rob01 has always gotten alot faster speeds then most. I have had a 21" barrel that saw 2800 fps from factory ammo and dope matched. It can happen but most are like you and seeing 2750-2800 from 23"-26" barrels.

My new barrel is finished at 23" and its Melonited. I'm anxious to find out what it will do accuracy and velocity wise.

 

[2Shots]

For some reason Rob01 has always gotten alot faster speeds then most. I have had a 21" barrel that saw 2800 fps from factory ammo and dope matched. It can happen but most are like you and seeing 2750-2800 from 23"-26" barrels.

My new barrel is finished at 23" and its Melonited. I'm anxious to find out what it will do accuracy and velocity wise.

I shot 43.5 for almost 4000 rounds with 142's through my first barrel, clocked in the 2850 range and still shot moa, my new bartlein rebarrel is shooting slightly over 2900. No pressure at all.

 

[Pusher591]

I shot 43.5 for almost 4000 rounds with 142's through my first barrel, clocked in the 2850 range and still shot moa, my new bartlein rebarrel is shooting slightly over 2900. No pressure at all.

This excites me!!!! What barrel length?

 

[soteaser]

The .260 has more capacity, but the c.m.'s bullets can be seated farther into the case w/o goi.g past the shoulder, so that more than makes up for it. I've been buyi g 120amax for around 20 a box, sub moa factory and sub 1/2 moa reloads in a stock savage long range hunter. Love mine very much.
Good luck
terry

 

[soteaser]

The .260 has more capacity, but the c.m.'s bullets can be seated farther into the case w/o goi.g past the shoulder, so that more than makes up for it. I've been buyi g 120amax for around 20 a box, sub moa factory and sub 1/2 moa reloads in a stock savage long range hunter. Love mine very much.
Good luck
terry

 

[Graham]

Wow Rob! I'm on my 2nd 260, and 4th barrel in 260 overall. 43.1 is as high as i've ever gotten before showing pressure, and when the ammo got wet in a match, it was over pressure. I stick at 42.5 now, which seems to shoot well in everything with a 142 SMK. You must have some magic juju going, lol.

My next barrel is 6.5 SLR to see if I can get more life out of it.

I'm at 44.0 H4350 with a JLK 130VLD.


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