6.5 CM vs .260 Rem

[L2bravo]

Not to start a war, but it there any disadvantage to go going with a 260? I shoot a 308 now, and have tons of brass. If I wanted to get in that 6.5 game this year, considering a 260.

If it matters, I reload now. So factory ammo isn’t really a consideration.

 

[XLR308]

If you reload and would be starting from scratch a 260AI throated long and in a long action would be optimized for that round but nothing wrong with and standard 260rem in a short action.
The 65 Creedmoor is a more modern design in my opinion and optimized for a short action but either would serve you well.

 

[brianf]

Ooooo you started a war.

there are a few threads about this already but...

prices are coming down on 260 components so the cost savings on a creed is not as much as it used to be

if you are a reloader you can push the 260 a little faster (regular casing not AI/modified)

after that its a wash, no one is missing because they are shooting a creed/260 and not the other

if remington didnt let the 260 die on the vine years ago the creed would have never been able to get a foothold

 

[acudaowner]

incase you did not see it

 

[Sig Marine]

The .260 is a longer case with more capacity but, depending on the bullet, that advantage can be a wash because of magazine length restrictions in a short action. As for Lapua brass, it’s a moot point now that Lapua makes Creedmoor brass as well as the .260. Shoulder angle on the .260 also means it can grow and need trimming more often. As suggested above, there are variants of the .260 that work well if you take advantage of the case length and modern high BC bullets by using it in a long action.

 

[L2bravo]

So I guess what’s appealing, is not only can you buy 260 brass, but it’s dirt cheap and easy to make.

So one thing that hadn’t occurred to me, was the use of a long action. I guess bullet lengths, seating depths, oals and all are right on the line???

 

[L2bravo]

incase you did not see it

I didn’t hear anything he said. All I could do was look at that rifle. Lol.

 

[BurnOut]

As others have mentioned, the .260 can have a slight edge in velocity, but that is magazine-length dependent. So, my personal take on it is that if you have magazine length restrictions (call it a max COAL of ~2.85 or less), it's pretty much a wash in terms of performance. If you can load a little longer, then you can take advantage of the extra case capacity in the .260 and get a touch more velocity.

In regard to turning .308 cases into .260 cases, you're almost certainly going to have to neck turn if you go that route.

 

[Steel head]

I still run 260.
Long mags like ARC, MDT, AW’s and accurate mags really helped the 260 situation.

In AR-10 and regular AI mags 6.5CM does make a lot of sense.


I still have 300-400 pieces of new brass still so I’m happily committed to it but may do a 260AI for my next barrel as all I’d need is a new body die.
I run necked up 243 Winchester brass.



There’s actually more 260 factory ammo options now than when I first started with it which surprises me.

 

[Sutherlandsd]

I shoot 260 and it's been very good to me over the years. I most likely will switch to creedmoor soon just because I want the convenience with ar10 and the availability of prefits in 6.5 Creed.

 

[jbell]

I feel like the 260 is a little easier to tune for cutting edge accuracy. But it’s marginal at best

 

[Steel head]

Potato, Potahto. Difference is Potato is on the menu at my local restaurant and Potahto ain’t.

If you want performance, get the 6.5 PRC. You can down load it to 260 performance envelopes and barrel lifes, it’s on shelves, and when you need holy shit FPS it’s right there.

It’s not on any shelves in my area.

 

[Hondo64d]

Not to start a war, but it there any disadvantage to go going with a 260? I shoot a 308 now, and have tons of brass. If I wanted to get in that 6.5 game this year, considering a 260.

If it matters, I reload now. So factory ammo isn’t really a consideration.

The Creedmoor is more likely to allow you to reach the lands with VLD type bullets at magazine length. The 30 degree shoulder is supposedly a little easier on throats. Performance is so close that any differences are insignificant. I reload too but absolutely dread my reloads not showing up after a flight and not being able to get ammo.

John

 

[VP47PPC]

Is 260 barrel twist as fast as 6.5C?

 

[Steel head]

Is 260 barrel twist as fast as 6.5C?

Yep
1-8 being most common.

 

[b6graham]

Is 260 barrel twist as fast as 6.5C?

now it is

it didn't used to be and that's why 260 died and 6.5Creed was born. not counting the shoulder angle and case length stuff. same thing with 243 versus 6 creed

 

[SAMR]

If you want performance, get the 6.5 PRC. You can down load it to 260 performance envelopes and barrel lifes, it’s on shelves, and when you need holy shit FPS it’s right there.

That's.....making me rethink things for my next build.

 

[BurnOut]

It’s not on any shelves in my area.

Same. I have yet to see even a single box of 6.5 PRC in person.

 

[Steel head]

Same. I have yet to see even a single box of 6.5 PRC in person.

Or brass.

I remember when 6.5CM was in a similar situation.

The hot, new thing and nowhere to be found.

 

[L2bravo]

As others have mentioned, the .260 can have a slight edge in velocity, but that is magazine-length dependent. So, my personal take on it is that if you have magazine length restrictions (call it a max COAL of ~2.85 or less), it's pretty much a wash in terms of performance. If you can load a little longer, then you can take advantage of the extra case capacity in the .260 and get a touch more velocity.

In regard to turning .308 cases into .260 cases, you're almost certainly going to have to neck turn if you go that route.

I’m sure I’m missing it, but why will I need to neck turn em?

 

[Steel head]

I’m sure I’m missing it, but why will I need to neck turn em?

Because the 6.5 necks formed from 308 brass are too usually thick and don’t provide enough case neck to chamber neck clearance.

 

[Lowlight]

They are nearly identical, it's all hair-splitting as there is no real-world difference beyond the factory ammo offerings.

The difference is in availability and money, 6.5CM is cheap and is everywhere, 260 is more expensive and hard to find in the same quantities. Some companies still charge close to $50 for factory 260 match ammo, the average is around $35 vs $25.

Reloaded it would be hard to see a difference on the range unless you do load it long and either not fit in a magazine or catch the bullet on the lands with an unfired round and pull the bullet out making a mess. Both are downsides to the 260. That said, practically speaking the 260 on average with no downsides will give you about 25fps to 50fps per second more velocity from the same bullet.

The 6.5CM fixed the problem of the 260, it's the replacement round.

I still prefer the 260 but alternate every day between the two

 

[BurnOut]

Because the 6.5 necks formed from 308 brass are too usually thick and don’t provide enough case neck to chamber neck clearance.

^^This^^

Several years ago when putting together my first "custom" rifle (a Savage), I was debating between .260 Rem and 6.5 CM and successfully outsmarted myself by selecting .260 Rem. This was right around the time of the great ammo scarcity, and my reasoning was that I could easily make .260 Rem cases from .308... smart, right? Until I tried it and found out about the neck thickness issue... and ended up buying a $300 neck turning lathe setup from 21st Century to resolve the issue.

Oh, well... that lathe has come in handy for other cases, so I guess it's a good investment overall; but it certainly took the wind out of my sails regarding the wisdom of selecting .260 Rem over 6.5 CM, re: brass availability.

 

[Sutherlandsd]

Exactly what Lowlight said... I still prefer the 260 even if nothing other than for the nostalgia of it. But son of a bitch its nice to walk into academy and buy a box of 6.5cm for $14 of whatever flavor is on sale and bang away with an AR10 without looking at my reloading press.

 

[hollowoutadime]

.260 is way better b/c it's still a niche cartridge. 6.5 was cool until you could buy it in a $400 Walmart rifle. If you can't parrot the guy next to you (at the range) some obscure cartridge, you need to relinquish your SH profile. Ordering a 6mm G(ay)T(iger) now.

 

[Steel head]

.260 is way better b/c it's still a niche cartridge. 6.5 was cool until you could buy it in a $400 Walmart rifle. If you can't parrot the guy next to you (at the range) some obscure cartridge, you need to relinquish your SH profile. Ordering a 6mm G(ay)T(iger) now.

 

[Brandon05_88]

I went .260 over 6.5 for a few reasons. I shot a .260 a few years back, but didn't have the dies, etc. for it and still chose it. I'm shooting an AI AT with Aw mags that allow for the longer OAL. This also allows for more go juice behind the bullet. I did not want to shoot a caliber everyone and their cousin shoot as well.

I think it really comes down to magazine length. If it's mag length and/or AR-10 = 6.5. If you can load them longer, I prefer .260.

 

[AIAW]

It's easy. I can use two words to sum up the entire .260 REM vs 6.5 CM debacle:

Hornady Marketing

 

[Steel head]

6.5-08 master race!

 

[mosin46]

where on this planet are you finding hornady 140gr 6.5 cm for $13 a box? i look everywhere,web and brick,frequently. absolute low is $!/r plus tax or ship. remington was retarded with 260 just like with the 244 to 6mm twist rate change thing. by the time they figured it out,win had the 6mm market cornered with the 243. will be interesting to see how 6cm competes with it. the king is correect cm sucess = brilliant hornady marketing (for the most part). bt,it is a well thought out round. wonder how well it would do if somebody made high quality 6.5x55 match ammo and comparable guns. anyway,fortunately,it is here to stay and i am going to drink the cool-aide. but,ammo cost for factory are going to have me shooting it about 1/2 as much as my 308.

 

[VP47PPC]

where on this planet are you finding hornady 140gr 6.5 cm for $13 a box?

The bulk American Gunner 140BTHP was going for $150 for200. Thats down to $15 a 20 rounds. I think the price has crept up just recently.

 

[stello1001]

where on this planet are you finding hornady 140gr 6.5 cm for $13 a box? i look everywhere,web and brick,frequently. absolute low is $!/r plus tax or ship. remington was retarded with 260 just like with the 244 to 6mm twist rate change thing. by the time they figured it out,win had the 6mm market cornered with the 243. will be interesting to see how 6cm competes with it. the king is correect cm sucess = brilliant hornady marketing (for the most part). bt,it is a well thought out round. wonder how well it would do if somebody made high quality 6.5x55 match ammo and comparable guns. anyway,fortunately,it is here to stay and i am going to drink the cool-aide. but,ammo cost for factory are going to have me shooting it about 1/2 as much as my 308.

Yeah 13 bucks a box for match grade is something I've never seen.

However, academy does sell hornady black which is loaded with HPBT bullets at 14.99 every now and then.

 

[spife7980]

Sportsman’s Warehouse has $129 a box of 200 sales on occasion.

I think if I saw that price I would buy a shit load and then build myself a creed...

 

[XLR308]

So I guess what’s appealing, is not only can you buy 260 brass, but it’s dirt cheap and easy to make.

So one thing that hadn’t occurred to me, was the use of a long action. I guess bullet lengths, seating depths, oals and all are right on the line???

Another option to the 260AI in a long action and one I may explore down the road is getting a barrel chambered for one of my Atlas actions.
In the alpha mags I have I can load out to 2.965" and the inner front edge of the magazine is dead nuts flush with the feed ramp so no chance of hanging on it or need for modifications due to the mag well cut Kelblys uses.
That would give the 260AI a definite advantage without the need for a long action assuming the barrel preferred the higher node from the added capacity.
I'm sure there are other short actions that could be set up the same without the need to modify that's just what I have and an observatiion.
If your not a tinkerer and want the option of low cost high quality match and hunting ammo the 65 Creedmoor is going to be tough to beat.

 

[Kevin1]

I went 260 on my AIAT a few years ago because:


1. I wanted to use Lapua brass. My AIAT has a large fining and Lapua only makes small primer brass for 6.5CM. I never had any blown primer but didn't want to risk it and didn't want to send my bolt for bushing

2. I can use the same trimming and OAL measuring tools as my 308


Personally I don't care about additional speed. My loads are usually on the mild side. I feel like more speed only gives me marginal ballistic advantage and it's not worth getting more recoil and less barrel life.

 

[K.B.808]

6.5mm Shootout: .260 Remington vs. 6.5x47 Lapua vs. 6.5 Creedmoor

Came across this when trying to decide between 6.5 and 6.5x47... still haven’t decided.

 

[patriot07]

Almost no advantage to the 260. Tiny ballistic advantage, somewhat of a cost disadvantage. Not a ton of difference between them, but if I cared about the ballistic difference, I'd just go to 6.5 PRC and be done with it. If I didn't, I'd go with the one that's easier to load for in short action, has a hair less recoil, and has significantly better factory ammo availability and affordability.

 

[patriot07]

The bulk American Gunner 140BTHP was going for $150 for200. Thats down to $15 a 20 rounds. I think the price has crept up just recently.

Got a buddy who shoots 6.5 a good bit, and he always buys this instead of the match 140 ELD-M. I try to explain that the performance at longer ranges is going to be wildly different, but it doesn't seem to phase him. He does miss a lot more targets further out than I have with factory ammo, and way more than either of us misses with our handloads.

 

[Adam B]

oldie but a goodie

6.5mm Shootout: .260 Remington vs. 6.5x47 Lapua vs. 6.5 Creedmoor

 

[Niles Coyote]

Another nice thing about the 260, and this also is dependent on the bullet used, is the case has just enough capacity that you can use H4831sc with many 140 weight class bullets. Because of that and where the accuracy nodes are, I can make 2845fps with single digit SD/ES from my 24" 260 while my 25 and 26" Creedmoor's remain in the 2770-2790 area with H4350. That may not be as big a deal now with some of the newer powders like RL-16&26 but then again I have not tried those in my 24" 260's.

 

[Steel head]

Another nice thing about the 260, and this also is dependent on the bullet used, is the case has just enough capacity that you can use H4831sc with many 140 weight class bullets. Because of that and where the accuracy nodes are, I can make 2845fps with single digit SD/ES from my 24" 260 while my 25 and 26" Creedmoor's remain in the 2770-2790 area with H4350. That may not be as big a deal now with some of the newer powders like RL-16&26 but then again I have not tried those in my 24" 260's.

I’m going to have to try 4831 again now that I have long magazines.
It’s really a great powder in 260 but pretty crunchy if you have to run short.

 

[Niles Coyote]

I use a 5 or 6 inch drop tube for everything, which I am sure helps a bit too.

 

[Action Guy]

After the last decade, I am surprised and reassured that this is still a debate. I chose .260 Remington early in and after some time I began to think I bet on the loser. It works fine for me, but like the .244 Remington versus the .243 Winchester back in the 1960s, I thought it would not make it this far. It reassures me that there are still ardent .260 Remington shooters and fans.

It's easy. I can use two words to sum up the entire .260 REM vs 6.5 CM debacle:

Hornady Marketing

AIAW is right on the money.

The question between the two is not based on performance, at least not much performance. Initially I saw just as many .260s as I did 6.5CMs. This was because both calibers were relatively new to long range shooting. How Hornady handled the 6.5 Creedmoor lead to it being a clear choice in the market today. Don't confuse this as the .260 Remington being not able to ballistically compete with a 6.5, because they are very, very similar. They both launch the same weight bullets at very similar velocities. Even in this thread, users are giving a slight, but real, ballistic advantage to the .260 Remington. It is all about how the two were supported in the market.

The 6.5CM was designed from the start to be a long range cartridge. The .260 Rem was designed as a deer hunting cartridge. Factory loads for the .260 Remington were initially plentiful, but they were all hunting bullets that were relatively light and marginal accuracy for long range shooting but fine for deer. The 6.5 CM from Hornady was available initially only in long range loads, featuring the 140gr AMAX. Contributing to the success of this was the Hornady loads were very accurate, efficient in flight, priced competitively and readily available.

Back in the day, those that chose the .260 Remington, reloading was the only option for long range loads. Also, the factory rifles chambered for .260 did not have match chambers or fast-twist barrels because they were hunting rifles and the SAAMI drawing for the cartridge (from Remington) was for a hunting-oriented load. The SAAMI drawing for the 6.5 CM is already a match chamber with a fast twist rate. The result was .260 Remington shooters had to have a custom rifle built for long range and reloads, the 6.5 CM was available in some factory rifles ready-to-go for long range (like the Ruger RPR) and good factory LR ammo, ready-to-go.

A quick search for factory rifles and ammo available today in these two calibers clearly shows how the 6.5 has eclipsed the .260 Remington in the market, both as a hunting cartridge and a long range cartridge. Hornady nailed this market and now leads it.

I chose the .260 Remington early on (2010). I knew going in I was going to build a custom rifle and reload. It was a flip of a coin decision for me. I am still a huge fan of the .260 Remington and do not feel out-classed against the 6.5 CM. I don't regret the decision. I can still get .260 brass and dies. I will always shoot a custom-built rifle for long range, so no disadvantage there. I am glad to hear that I am not alone in this regard.

If you plan on a custom build, you can choose either one with no penalty. If you reload, the same holds. If you are not building or loading, the 6.5 CM is a turn-key combination that has made it easier and less expensive to make the leap into long range shooting. Today, the 6.5 CM offers more rifles choices and more ammo choices if factory is your preference. This is because of Hornady's savvy market support of their cartridge, not because it far out-classes the .260 Remington.

Just my observations over the last few years. To each their own.

Action Guy

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I was under the impression that 6.5 CM gave longer barrel life due to the 30º shoulder.

 

[lash]

I was under the impression that 6.5 CM gave longer barrel life due to the 30º shoulder.

Nuh uh!
I’ve yet to see a single piece of evidence that bears this out.

You want longer barrel life, try backing off some on the speed/heat/pressure. Use slow burning powders for caliber and try to get a good case fill.

 

[hafejd30]

After the last decade, I am surprised and reassured that this is still a debate. I chose .260 Remington early in and after some time I began to think I bet on the loser. It works fine for me, but like the .244 Remington versus the .243 Winchester back in the 1960s, I thought it would not make it this far. It reassures me that there are still ardent .260 Remington shooters and fans.



AIAW is right on the money.

The question between the two is not based on performance, at least not much performance. Initially I saw just as many .260s as I did 6.5CMs. This was because both calibers were relatively new to long range shooting. How Hornady handled the 6.5 Creedmoor lead to it being a clear choice in the market today. Don't confuse this as the .260 Remington being not able to ballistically compete with a 6.5, because they are very, very similar. They both launch the same weight bullets at very similar velocities. Even in this thread, users are giving a slight, but real, ballistic advantage to the .260 Remington. It is all about how the two were supported in the market.

The 6.5CM was designed from the start to be a long range cartridge. The .260 Rem was designed as a deer hunting cartridge. Factory loads for the .260 Remington were initially plentiful, but they were all hunting bullets that were relatively light and marginal accuracy for long range shooting but fine for deer. The 6.5 CM from Hornady was available initially only in long range loads, featuring the 140gr AMAX. Contributing to the success of this was the Hornady loads were very accurate, efficient in flight, priced competitively and readily available.

Back in the day, those that chose the .260 Remington, reloading was the only option for long range loads. Also, the factory rifles chambered for .260 did not have match chambers or fast-twist barrels because they were hunting rifles and the SAAMI drawing for the cartridge (from Remington) was for a hunting-oriented load. The SAAMI drawing for the 6.5 CM is already a match chamber with a fast twist rate. The result was .260 Remington shooters had to have a custom rifle built for long range and reloads, the 6.5 CM was available in some factory rifles ready-to-go for long range (like the Ruger RPR) and good factory LR ammo, ready-to-go.

A quick search for factory rifles and ammo available today in these two calibers clearly shows how the 6.5 has eclipsed the .260 Remington in the market, both as a hunting cartridge and a long range cartridge. Hornady nailed this market and now leads it.

I chose the .260 Remington early on (2010). I knew going in I was going to build a custom rifle and reload. It was a flip of a coin decision for me. I am still a huge fan of the .260 Remington and do not feel out-classed against the 6.5 CM. I don't regret the decision. I can still get .260 brass and dies. I will always shoot a custom-built rifle for long range, so no disadvantage there. I am glad to hear that I am not alone in this regard.

If you plan on a custom build, you can choose either one with no penalty. If you reload, the same holds. If you are not building or loading, the 6.5 CM is a turn-key combination that has made it easier and less expensive to make the leap into long range shooting. Today, the 6.5 CM offers more rifles choices and more ammo choices if factory is your preference. This is because of Hornady's savvy market support of their cartridge, not because it far out-classes the .260 Remington.

Just my observations over the last few years. To each their own.

Action Guy

I am in exactly the same boat you are since I built a 260 Remington about the same time (around 2010). The only drawback I have ran into is shooting 143 ELDX. Had to run them further off the lands then I intended to so they would fit in the AI mag. No issues with the SMK 142 sitting .010” off lands. CBI Match barrel

 

[AIAW]

I'm surprised they put my commentary up on their website to be honest...

 

[gnatmm]

oldie but a goodie

6.5mm Shootout: .260 Remington vs. 6.5x47 Lapua vs. 6.5 Creedmoor

Worth sticking it is a good candidate for the longest SH thread followed by March vs Nightforce one

 

[Platinumblonde]

.260 rem. More case capacity, smoother recoil. Easier to make brass. Better barrel life due to shoulder angle. .260 rem is sexy, 6.5 Creedmoor is trendy. Slicing hairs between the two. 6.5x55 swede is the king of all .264 mm cartridges.

 

[Bender]

.260 rem. More case capacity, smoother recoil. Easier to make brass. Better barrel life due to shoulder angle. .260 rem is sexy, 6.5 Creedmoor is trendy. Slicing hairs between the two. 6.5x55 swede is the king of all .264 mm cartridges.

Only if it’s reloaded. Factory loads are weak. Like people’s stories.