6.5 Creed - How Little Is Too Little Powder?

[Basic user]

Worked up a load doing what the manual told me to, (i think it was Bergers) which was to start at their lowest load and work up. It wasn't long after (i think my 2nd load ladder) that I started to get sub .75" groups very easily. I then took the 4 charge weights that were the smallest out of both ladders and competed them, and shot this 5 round group. The charge weight was 34.2 of Varget in Alpha brass with 140 berger VLDs loaded to 1.988" BTO.
I then had a reloader that is much more talented than myself tell me this is too little of powder and that I risk a high pressure situation due to the powder not burning in the desired order of back to front.

I shoot for group size only and velocity is not a care of mine. Does anyone else shoot loads more torwards the minimum side of the manual?

 

[spife7980]

That seems like a perfectly reasonable amount of varget for a creed

 

[Haney]

You are fine with that load . Some published data for 140s goes as low as 32 grains of Varget . Looks like you found a load your rifle likes .

Edited to add...Berger book has 33 grains as starting load at 2388 fps w/ 36.7 as max load at 2618...fill rate at roughly 88 percent .

 

[longrange772]

Trying to recall where I heard it, think maybe one of the Hornady Podcasts on sample size and dispersion , but IIRC one of the findings they consistently saw was dispersion always increased between Min and Max loads for any particular cartridge.

 

[stello1001]

I think the reason you have to use such little powder is because varget is a faster burning powder. You're also trying to push a heavier type bullet. This means varget will reach peak pressures before giving you the best velocity. That powder is not the best for the creed.

The slower burning h4350, r16, etc will allow you to use more powder. You're gonna have enough powder of those charges to reach decent velocity before reaching peak pressures.

All this does not matter though since you are not chasing speed and the load is shooting perfectly fine.

That amount of powder seems reasonable for that bullet weight being that it's a slightly faster burning powder.

Keep up the good shooting.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

“I then had a reloader that is much more talented than myself tell me this is too little of powder and that I risk a high pressure situation”
That’s a reference to detonation, which is why you shouldn’t start below a manual minimum. You’re in the book range, it won’t be an issue.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

One other thing. That single group looks really good. I would want to see at least five to ten additional groups that are just as good or even close to it before declaring success.

While your load appears sound from a loading manual perspective, Varget is indeed a little fast for a 6.5CM, especially with a longer ( >=26") barrel.

But hey, if you're getting consistent sub-1/2" groups with that load, drive on and enjoy!

 

[Basic user]

One other thing. That single group looks really good. I would want to see at least five to ten additional groups that are just as good or even close to it before declaring success.

While your load appears sound from a loading manual perspective, Varget is indeed a little fast for a 6.5CM, especially with a longer ( >=26") barrel.

But hey, if you're getting consistent sub-1/2" groups with that load, drive on and enjoy!

Understood. This is the 2nd group this size with this load. The other I think 3 groups were just a TAD larger than this with the other charge weights. The barrel's a rem varmint contour Douglas that I sent in the action to have barreled. Its not a finicky barrel to load for in my amateur opinion.

 

[Basic user]

I did load up some H4350 loads based on a lot of advice I got from my acquaintance and you guys. Well see how they shoot.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Depending on the powder, a fellow a get downright light. Now discontinued SR4759 would allow safe charges in .30-06 sized cases as low as 10 grains considering that a bullet was light enough to allow the charge to push it out of the barrel. However, the .25-06 was the first to suffer with the phenomenon you described. people were using charges as light as 15 grains of the old surplus H4831 and it was thoroughly blowing up rifles. Talking hand grenade type blowups. It was tested under lab conditions and the testers were never able to repeat the incidents.

A good rule of thumb, if not using a powder such as the above mentioned SR4759, Trail Boss or accurate 5744 its just considered safe practice to not go below the recommendations of at least two reloading manuals.

last story and I’ll shut up. Loading a set of 25-06 cartridges using IMR4350 and a 100 grain bullet. Used a popular manual and did not cross check. Rifle shot the best groups ever. (And it is a really good little rifle and the groups from this load were a marked improvement). When I checked another manual, the load was almost 7 grains lighter than any other manuals recommendation. Lesson learned Again! Double check always. No damage and it worked great, for then. Too great. Pulled the bullets, charged it correctly. We all do it including some well respected load manuals.

I’ve been a .25-06 shooter since Remington standardized the round in the late 60’s so all this came to my attention a long while ago.

 

[Haney]

I did load up some H4350 loads based on a lot of advice I got from my acquaintance and you guys. Well see how they shoot.

Did you abandon the Varget load ?

 

[Haney]

Sift through the info above . You have people that don't know a cast bullet load from a jacketed bullet load . Read manuals, listen to less bullshit .

 

[Basic user]

Did you abandon the Varget load ?

I did not; I'm just trying the other powder everyone loves, and recommends to see what it yields. I'm hearing that Varget is tad too fast for this cartridge, so I like to experiment.