6.5 Creedmoor 147 Gr ELD-M. RL16, RL26, H4831SC, H4350 Test and Data

[EDMJustin]

So I have been lurking for a while now, I have made a few posts here and there, but nothing with much contribution yet. Now it is time to put up some meaningful data for all of you. I have noticed it can be hard to find load data on the Hornady 147 Gr ELD-M for the 6.5 Creedmoor. So I did some research and bought a few powders that interested me for this. I chose 4 different powders, loaded up 50 rounds of each, took it to the range and here are the results for anyone who is interested.





The powders I tested were RL16, RL26, H4831 SC, H4350. After testing all four I had great results with all of the in different ways. I will let you all be the judge of what might work for you. This data will hopefully help anyone trying to choose a good powder for the 147 ELD-M.



Use Caution when using any of these loads, be sure start low and work your way up. All these loads below, start high and get over recommended charges. Don't be a fool and blow up your tool.



The Rifle

Action - Defiance Deviant

Barrel - 26" Krieger 1:8 MTU

Break - Area 419 Hellfire

Trigger- Timney Calvin Elite 2 Stage

Chassis - MDT ESS

Rings - ARC M10 Medium

Scope - Minox ZP5 5-25x56



The Ammo



Bullet - Hornady 147 Gr ELD-M

Brass- Virgin Lapua Small Rifle 6.5 CM

Primer - CCI 450

BTO - 2.263

.020 Off the lands



Testing was done at my local range at 100m. Temperature was 22c with 30km wind gusting to 60km. Altitude was 805m above sea level. Sorry but all you guys from the USA will have to convert that from Canadian on your own eh.



Test #1 - RL16

Charge Muzzle Vel. SD ES Group Size "



40.3 2658 9.8 26 1.637

40.6 2687 8.1 18 .998

40.9 2707 6.0 13 .495

41.2 2721 5.6 15 .926

41.5 2749 8.1 22 .754

41.8 2771 6.6 15 .852

42.1 2788 4.5 12 .802

42.4 2808 9.8 26 .735

42.7 2835 6.7 14 1.040

43.0 2851 6.3 14 .926

Test #2 - RL26

Charge Muzzle Vel. SD ES Group Size "



45.3 2715 4.7 12 .757

45.6 2759 8.7 22 .563

45.9 2776 9.5 25 .855

46.2 2794 6.4 16 .834

46.5 2817 5.1 13 .896

46.8 2844 9.2 21 .529

47.1 2855 6.9 19 1.093

47.4 2881 9.6 25 .905

47.7 2904 11 30 .739

48.0 2917 9.4 23 .826

Test #3 - H4831 SC

Charge Muzzle Vel. SD ES Group Size "



42.5 2614 9.0 25 .516

42.8 2631 6.7 16 .555

43.1 2642 11 28 .826

43.4 2665 7.0 18 .668

43.7 2682 6.2 15 .915

44.0 2696 7.6 15 .507

44.3 2714 5.9 14 .437

44.6 2733 5.0 12 .878

44.9 2746 10.8 27 .607

45.2 2760 4.5 10 1.010

Test #4 - H4350

Charge Muzzle Vel. SD ES Group Size "



40.0 2657 7.9 21 .971

40.3 2690 11 30 .888

40.6 2688 8.7 21 .799

40.9 2706 4.0 10 .799

41.2 2719 2.4 6 1.159

41.5 2737 4.7 12 .467

41.8 2750 4.4 11 .742

42.1 2769 9.9 25 .494

42.4 2792 2.6 7 .556

42.7 2806 7.4 19 .806

After doing these tests I thought I would have a clear winner but now I just want to test these all more thoroughly. So this test has turned into phase 1 now. I will see what kind of fine tuning I can do to these in the future. I will keep you all posted when phase 2 is completed and I will post the results for you all.

 

[neomastiff]

Great information. Thanks for sharing.

 

[NLS7162]

Tag

 

[kabarNC]

Thanks!

 

[Geno C.]

Over 2900 with a 147 in a creed is impressive. Too bad it wasn't a tight little group there and you would be done.

A few questions about the test;

how many rounds through the barrel?

What order were these shot in?

Was there any cleaning done?

We're these shot round robin or each group at a time?

 

[Deleted member 113831]

That top RL26 load is about 2 grains over max. It is probably running in excess of 75,000 psi. With that barrel and bullet, you should be pressuring out at about 2,800 fps with appropriate powders.

 

[EDMJustin]

Over 2900 with a 147 in a creed is impressive. Too bad it wasn't a tight little group there and you would be done.

A few questions about the test;

how many rounds through the barrel?

What order were these shot in?

Was there any cleaning done?

We're these shot round robin or each group at a time?

No problem. There were 220 rounds through this barrel at the time of testing. The order they were shot in, is the order posted, test 1-4. After every test of 50 the chamber was cleaned and the barrel had a very light cleaning. I tried to not removed much copper during this test when cleaning. These groups were shot one at at time 5 rounds per. I let the barrel cool between each group.

 

[EDMJustin]

That top RL26 load is about 2 grains over max. It is probably running in excess of 75,000 psi. With that barrel and bullet, you should be pressuring out at about 2,800 fps with appropriate powders.

None of this brass showed any pressure signs, There was very slight primer cratering on the 47.7 and 48.0 gr RL26 loads and also the 43.0 gr of RL16. Nothing that scared me at all. Each gun and barrel are different, maybe I finally lucked out and got a fast one for a change.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Tag

 

[clrblu22]

Thanks fo doing such a detailed test! I have been wanting to test the RL16 and RL26 against H4350. If it's as temperature stable as H4350 and adds a few FPS - I may switch. H4350 is usually about $20-$30 more for an 8lb keg and a hell of a lot harder to find in stock.

 

[Rob01]

Is that .002" off lands or a misprint of .020"? If .002" then try them at .020" off. The ELD-Ms don't need to be jammed into the lands or even very close. The factory loads that are about .090" off the lands shoot great in my rifles.

5 SHots when I started working up my 147 load. Velocity was slower than I wanted so I kept working up and found my load higher up and getting 2820fps from my 27" barrel. These are the slower load but my faster load shoots the same and actually a little better at 300. I only use H4350 with the Creedmoor.

 

[EDMJustin]

Thanks fo doing such a detailed test! I have been wanting to test the RL16 and RL26 against H4350. If it's as temperature stable as H4350 and adds a few FPS - I may switch. H4350 is usually about $20-$30 more for an 8lb keg and a hell of a lot harder to find in stock.

I was looking for an alternative to 4350 as well. It is hard to find in my area on a regular basis. It's a great powder but completely useless if i can never find it. RL 26 and 16 on the other hand I can find in stock all the time. In Canada where I am, the prices are insane already. RL 26 seems to be a bit cheaper in my area.

 

[EDMJustin]

Is that .002" off lands or a misprint of .020"? If .002" then try them at .020" off. The ELD-Ms don't need to be jammed into the lands or even very close. The factory loads that are about .090" off the lands shoot great in my rifles.

5 SHots when I started working up my 147 load. Velocity was slower than I wanted so I kept working up and found my load higher up and getting 2820fps from my 27" barrel. These are the slower load but my faster load shoots the same and actually a little better at 300. I only use H4350 with the Creedmoor.

Yes that is a misprint, I am going to fix that right now. .020 is what it was supposed to be.

 

[TX_Punisher]

I, too, found 41.5g of
H4350 to be a node running the 147s just yesterday. 22" barrel. Didn't get my speeds yet as the labradar is touchy with the suppressor.

 

[CV_Ag]

Tag

Looking forward to phase 2. Currently have ELDm bullets on order for my 6.5 as well. Thanks for the report

 

[EDMJustin]

All right, I was able to make up a few more loads and make it back to the range. I wanted to see how much of an improvement I could get with once fired brass. So after de-priming and and cleaning I ran it through my Whidden full length sizer die (expander ball removed) bumping the shoulder .002. Then I ran them through the Sinclair mandrel die using neck the turning mandrel (.002 neck tension). Cases did not need to be trimmed at this time but I did touch up the chamfer and then de-burred them. One more time in the cleaner and they were ready to prime.



So for this test I really wanted to focus on the RL26 due to the high velocities I was getting in the previous test. If I could Tighten up those groups and possibly get some lower SD's and ES's then I would have a sure fire winner. I also wanted to see what more I could do with the RL16 and H4350. I really wanted to get the RL16 to shoot well, so I thought I would give it one more shot. We all know H4350 shoots well already, but I wanted to see how well I could get it in my rifle. I did not focus on those as much though, seeing as how I really wanted to put my effort into the RL26.



I loaded up 50 rounds with RL26. Starting at 46.3 up to 47.2. I wanted to do .1 Gr increments to see if I could find some flat spot in my velocity and pick something in the middle if possible. In the last test the rounds were seated to be .020 off the lands. In this new test I decided to go a bit closer at .015 off the lands. Below are the results and I would say it was a big improvement in group size but the SD/ES are still a bit high for my liking. I did find 2 flat spots in the velocity which is nice. Temperature was +3 c higher than the previous session and velocities clearly showed and increase due to temperature.

46.3 Is a typo, the MV was 2868.

Below are the test I did for the RL16 and H4350. There are some minor improvements and I would like to explore these more as well. The RL16 seems to be promising but finicky in my rifle. I will do some more testing with this in the future and post some more results.

The brass below are RL16 and H4350. The 5 rows on the left are the RL16 and the 5 rows on the right are the H4350. The charge weights are ascending from left to right.

So In conclusion I am very impressed with the results. I never thought I could reach the velocities with a 147 out of a 26'' Barrel. I also took some pictures of the fired brass for you this time, to show you that I was not blowing out primer's and splitting brass. There are some signs of slight primer cratering the highest loads. For myself, I still felt safe and they were in my comfort zone. I will let you guys be the judge.



If any of you have any suggestions, input, or anything to help me out in any area it would be much appreciated. I hope you have all found a use for this data, and that it helps you out when trying to pick a powder for your 147 Gr, 6.5 Creedmoor loads. I know when I was searching, info was scarce and hard to come by. Happy Hunting and I hope this helps you guys out!

 

[EDMJustin]

Tag

Looking forward to phase 2. Currently have ELDm bullets on order for my 6.5 as well. Thanks for the report

Phase 2 is up

 

[EDMJustin]

Is that .002" off lands or a misprint of .020"? If .002" then try them at .020" off. The ELD-Ms don't need to be jammed into the lands or even very close. The factory loads that are about .090" off the lands shoot great in my rifles.

5 SHots when I started working up my 147 load. Velocity was slower than I wanted so I kept working up and found my load higher up and getting 2820fps from my 27" barrel. These are the slower load but my faster load shoots the same and actually a little better at 300. I only use H4350 with the Creedmoor.

I just added the new test i did and changing the seating dept clearly helped out my groups sizes. Thanks for the advice!

 

[EDMJustin]

Over 2900 with a 147 in a creed is impressive. Too bad it wasn't a tight little group there and you would be done.

A few questions about the test;

how many rounds through the barrel?

What order were these shot in?

Was there any cleaning done?

We're these shot round robin or each group at a time?

Well I managed to stay above 2900 and tighten up those groups. Thanks for the inspiration lol

 

[Steel+Killer]

I am currently working on some 147s out of my 24” Tikka with Superformance Powder I am up to 2730fps at about two full grains over Hornady book max with no pressure signs on the brass (Starline small primer pocket) SD was around 10.

 

[CV_Ag]

Phase 2 is up

Thanks EDM. Just ordered an 8lb of 4350 so I’ll be following suit. Great guide!

 

[PowellSixO]

I really like the looks of the 45.2 grains of H4831sc myself. I know the group is over an inch, but it has the least amount of vertical stringing of any group I've seen so far. This is the group I would work with personally. It also has a low es and sd, which I like. I would take that load, and continue to play with multiple seating depths, to get your horizontal stringing together. That group has great potential. My 2 cents.

Edit: I always look for the best es and sd group I get with the least amount of vertical stringing. Once I get that far, I take that group, and play with seating depth. Works for me 99% of the time.

 

[Savedsoul88]

so i just did a large test with the 147 and rl26. in my rig with a 26 in bartlien i was able to get to 3030 with regular once fired hornady brass, cci LR primers. i got to 3100 with magnum primers and some flash hole work but if they sat in a hot chamber for more then 8 seconds they pierced so 3030 was where i ended up being a safe all around load. at this i had the slightest flat primers. I found a good node at 2950( magneto speed showed 2980), 3 shot groups are one ragged hole and 2 ten shot spreads left me with a sd of 8 and a es of 21. i found the 147 to shoot way better being further off the lands which i think helped me keep better pressures as well. i seated mine to factory 147 oal which in my gun i believe came out to be about .090 off the lands. anything in the regular .020 off didn't group well at all. im sure the large bearing surface contributes to this
i ran this load all the way out to 1200 and 2950 stayed spot on so i believe it to be a true number. i did notice however that with the rl26 and the 147 combo, its the only combo i have ever shot that my magneto speed made a group size difference and not just a POI change.
I just finished making a attachment to my forend to hold the magneto speed with out anything touching the barrel and will be shooting the last 10 shots i have of that load today so im curious to see if there is any effect with my velocity numbers.

my load i ended with is 48.7 gr rl 26, the powder is vibrated with my electric tooth brush down to get below the case neck junction. and 147 seated to 2.808 with cci LR primers. this is for my gun at sea level in 90 degree temps. this is in hornady 1 fired brass with basic prep.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Wow, you guys are getting 6.5x284 speeds out of a 6.5 creed, and doing it with a bullet that is 5 grains heavier! That doesn't ring any alarm bells?

The laws of physics are notoriously rigid.

 

[Savedsoul88]

Well I thought so too and worked my way up there. I think there’s a combination of effects that’s happening that’s not defying physics it’s just different t the the normal of what we see in shooting. I think the slow base of rl26 combined with the heavy bullet just cause a much calmer pressure spike and then much more action happening in the barrel then there is in the chamber. I think the softness of hornady brass as well plays into it. Seems the set has a lot of possible “pressure cushions”
Looking at everyone else’s results with different barrels lengths ,brass choices and load data has pointed me in that direction of thought

 

[clrblu22]

I really like the looks of the 45.2 grains of H4831sc myself. I know the group is over an inch, but it has the least amount of vertical stringing of any group I've seen so far. This is the group I would work with personally. It also has a low es and sd, which I like. I would take that load, and continue to play with multiple seating depths, to get your horizontal stringing together. That group has great potential. My 2 cents.

Edit: I always look for the best es and sd group I get with the least amount of vertical stringing. Once I get that far, I take that group, and play with seating depth. Works for me 99% of the time.

Thanks for this bit of information. I'm relatively new to the reloading game and what you've said here makes a lot of sense. Typically, I would have just looked for the tightest group and went with it. But tracking the least vertical string with best ES and SD absolutely makes sense to me. THANKS!

 

[clrblu22]

This is a great thread regarding load work ups with powders, but much like Skookum said, I'm a bit nervous about your pressure levels. I looked at your photos and agree that I can't see any large pressure signs, but MAN, that's cooking them 6.5 PRC style! I had no idea you could push a Creed to 3k with a bullet that heavy - says a lot about the quality of the barrels being used here.

 

[shields shtr]

I can't believe the level of detail you go into during load development. Impressive. I find something that shoots around 1/2" at 100 and then shoot it at distance. If my accuracy stays the same with no pressure signs I call it good. I don't know if I am really lucky or what, but it seems like my "load development phase" is almost non existent now. If I am being honest with myself I also realize I get a little bit of "group anxiety" and always seem to pull one or produce a flier, especially at 100 yards. I found it interesting in your first run of testing it looked like your barrel liked the 2750ish velocity node. Great information and a good post. Thank you for sharing.

 

[EDMJustin]

I can't believe the level of detail you go into during load development. Impressive. I find something that shoots around 1/2" at 100 and then shoot it at distance. If my accuracy stays the same with no pressure signs I call it good. I don't know if I am really lucky or what, but it seems like my "load development phase" is almost non existent now. If I am being honest with myself I also realize I get a little bit of "group anxiety" and always seem to pull one or produce a flier, especially at 100 yards. I found it interesting in your first run of testing it looked like your barrel liked the 2750ish velocity node. Great information and a good post. Thank you for sharing.

Thank you, put it all up to help future 6.5 guys. Now all the info is in one place with real data for all to see.

 

[EDMJustin]

so i just did a large test with the 147 and rl26. in my rig with a 26 in bartlien i was able to get to 3030 with regular once fired hornady brass, cci LR primers. i got to 3100 with magnum primers and some flash hole work but if they sat in a hot chamber for more then 8 seconds they pierced so 3030 was where i ended up being a safe all around load. at this i had the slightest flat primers. I found a good node at 2950( magneto speed showed 2980), 3 shot groups are one ragged hole and 2 ten shot spreads left me with a sd of 8 and a es of 21. i found the 147 to shoot way better being further off the lands which i think helped me keep better pressures as well. i seated mine to factory 147 oal which in my gun i believe came out to be about .090 off the lands. anything in the regular .020 off didn't group well at all. im sure the large bearing surface contributes to this
i ran this load all the way out to 1200 and 2950 stayed spot on so i believe it to be a true number. i did notice however that with the rl26 and the 147 combo, its the only combo i have ever shot that my magneto speed made a group size difference and not just a POI change.
I just finished making a attachment to my forend to hold the magneto speed with out anything touching the barrel and will be shooting the last 10 shots i have of that load today so im curious to see if there is any effect with my velocity numbers.

my load i ended with is 48.7 gr rl 26, the powder is vibrated with my electric tooth brush down to get below the case neck junction. and 147 seated to 2.808 with cci LR primers. this is for my gun at sea level in 90 degree temps. this is in hornady 1 fired brass with basic prep.

I use a old pair of hair clippers to vibrate my powder down, works like a charm.

 

[jsthntn247]

I would play with seating depth at 42.4gr of Re 16 if I was you.

 

[Conrad]

Reloder 26 is a speed demon. The speed is real, but do not believe the forecasted pressures Quickload generates. I'd say QL is underestimating pressures. That said, with proper work up I have found incredible velocities without your normal pressure signs. I can confirm the above tests with my Creed. I backed off of 47gr and am shooting 46.8 gr of R26 with 147's in a 25" benchmark. Bullets are WS2 coated, and am getting 2915 fps without pressure signs. I am seating at 2.865" in my desert tech as the mags afford it. I've shot R26 in a variety of cartridges and I always get a velocity upgrade. ES is good if in a good node, but expect it to spike on you when above about 85 degrees F.

 

[ironsight1000yard]

TAG

 

[Niles Coyote]

Is that .002" off lands or a misprint of .020"? If .002" then try them at .020" off. The ELD-Ms don't need to be jammed into the lands or even very close. The factory loads that are about .090" off the lands shoot great in my rifles.

5 SHots when I started working up my 147 load. Velocity was slower than I wanted so I kept working up and found my load higher up and getting 2820fps from my 27" barrel. These are the slower load but my faster load shoots the same and actually a little better at 300. I only use H4350 with the Creedmoor.

Rob, what load did you settle on that's above 41gr? I am at 41.6... makes me wonder if I'm right in the scatter node. I just started working with this round a little over a month ago and have not run a full load work up yet with H4350. A scatter node would make sense for what I'm seeing down range at times and how narrow the powder charge is.

 

[Niles Coyote]

It shoots well but a tenth either side es goes nuts.

 

[Rob01]

Rob, what load did you settle on that's above 41gr? I am at 41.6... makes me wonder if I'm right in the scatter node. I just started working with this round a little over a month ago and have not run a full load work up yet with H4350. A scatter node would make sense for what I'm seeing down range at times and how narrow the powder charge is.

I use 43grns of H4350 in Hornady brass.

 

[FOHA1]

Thanks EDM. Just ordered an 8lb of 4350 so I’ll be following suit. Great guide!

45.2g of H4831sc and 142g SMK's gave me my best results, with 45.1g of H4831sc and 147g ELD-M's. The groups are a bit large as I forgot a front bag and was just using the Harris BP. This gun shoots sub-moa with both factory ELD-M and my handloads.

 

[CV_Ag]

45.2g of H4831sc and 142g SMK's gave me my best results, with 45.1g of H4831sc and 147g ELD-M's. The groups are a bit large as I forgot a front bag and was just using the Harris BP. This gun shoots sub-moa with both factory ELD-M and my handloads.
View attachment 6917034

I went with the 140 gr ELD-Ms. Still developing but my rifle likes anything close to 42 grains of H4350. Goal for mine is sub 1/2” MOA.

 

[alaskalanche]

I am getting 147s @ 2870 fps from my 24" Tikka CTR and a ES of 12 over only 10 shots with RL-26.

Pretty happy about that load and it'll work fine for me.

Great to see others are getting similar results. Good work.

 

[Lesco Brandon]

I am getting 147s @ 2870 fps from my 24" Tikka CTR and a ES of 12 over only 10 shots with RL-26.

Pretty happy about that load and it'll work fine for me.

Great to see others are getting similar results. Good work.

How much powder?

 

[alaskalanche]

How much powder?

48 grains in Lapua SRP brass with 450 CCI. Same load drives the 143 ELDX at 2905 fps.

Hope that helps.

 

[Lesco Brandon]

48 grains in Lapua SRP brass with 450 CCI. Same load drives the 143 ELDX at 2905 fps.

Hope that helps.

I’ll definitely try it out. I have a few boxes of 147s but wasn’t able to push them to my satisfaction with H4350 so they’re just sitting there. I’m using 140s over 41.8 H4350 and getting 2750 FPS so your load sounds like a vast improvement

 

[alaskalanche]

I’ll definitely try it out. I have a few boxes of 147s but wasn’t able to push them to my satisfaction with H4350 so they’re just sitting there. I’m using 140s over 41.8 H4350 and getting 2750 FPS so your load sounds like a vast improvement

Yeah I am on my 4th firing on some of my brass with that load and primer pockets are still tight....maybe to magic of SRP IDK but def work up, just cause its appears to be safe in my rifle and all that...

 

[Rlovato]

Very nice write up i have been looking for info like this for awhile now thanks!

 

[White/wolf]

This just what I have been like ok’ing for. Thanks

 

[Lesco Brandon]

With 47.7g of R26 in Pedersen small rifle primer brass I’m pushing 140 ELDMs @ 2925 and getting an SD of 9.

 

[Buzzbee]

maybe you should have just built a 6.5 PRC ???

That Minox is Bad Ass, how do you like it so far? Dont see many....YET !!!!!!

You have a VERY nice rig !!

 

[EDMJustin]

maybe you should have just built a 6.5 PRC ???

That Minox is Bad Ass, how do you like it so far? Dont see many....YET !!!!!!

You have a VERY nice rig !!

Thanks! Well I have a Kahles k318i, and a S&B PM2 as well. If I am perfectly honest, the Minox is my favourite. For my personal taste I think the glass is the best for my eyes. I also really like the turret clicks as well. Some people had some complaints with the early versions having mushy clicks, but they must have figured it out because mine is great. My only complaint would be the transition into the second rev, the turrets have a higher resistance for a indicator. Sometimes fine tuning right on the transition point can be annoying.

 

[EDMJustin]

Very nice write up i have been looking for info like this for awhile now thanks!

Happy to help, I was in the same boat as you. Constantly searching with no luck. At least people can use this as a baseline for their own testing. If it helps the final load I did settle on was the RL16 at 42.1gr, MV 2825. I also have some RL26 at 46.5, MV 2878 as a back up.

 

[Rlovato]

Happy to help, I was in the same boat as you. Constantly searching with no luck. At least people can use this as a baseline for their own testing. If it helps the final load I did settle on was the RL16 at 42.1gr, MV 2825. I also have some RL26 at 46.5, MV 2878 as a back up.

You are the man! Now to do some testing of my own