6.5 Creedmoor 147 Gr ELD-M. RL16, RL26, H4831SC, H4350 Test and Data

[EDMJustin]

So I have been lurking for a while now, I have made a few posts here and there, but nothing with much contribution yet. Now it is time to put up some meaningful data for all of you. I have noticed it can be hard to find load data on the Hornady 147 Gr ELD-M for the 6.5 Creedmoor. So I did some research and bought a few powders that interested me for this. I chose 4 different powders, loaded up 50 rounds of each, took it to the range and here are the results for anyone who is interested.





The powders I tested were RL16, RL26, H4831 SC, H4350. After testing all four I had great results with all of the in different ways. I will let you all be the judge of what might work for you. This data will hopefully help anyone trying to choose a good powder for the 147 ELD-M.



Use Caution when using any of these loads, be sure start low and work your way up. All these loads below, start high and get over recommended charges. Don't be a fool and blow up your tool.



The Rifle

Action - Defiance Deviant

Barrel - 26" Krieger 1:8 MTU

Break - Area 419 Hellfire

Trigger- Timney Calvin Elite 2 Stage

Chassis - MDT ESS

Rings - ARC M10 Medium

Scope - Minox ZP5 5-25x56



The Ammo



Hornady 147 Gr ELD-M

Brass- Lapua Small Rifle 6.5 CM

Primer - CCI 450

OAL - 2.263

.0020 Off the lands



Testing was done at my local range at 100m. Temperature was 22c with 30km wind gusting to 60km. Altitude was 805m above sea level. Sorry but all you guys from the USA will have to convert that from Canadian on your own.



Test #1 - RL16

Charge Muzzle Vel. SD ES Group Size "



40.3 2658 9.8 26 1.637

40.6 2687 8.1 18 .998

40.9 2707 6.0 13 .495

41.2 2721 5.6 15 .926

41.5 2749 8.1 22 .754

41.8 2771 6.6 15 .852

42.1 2788 4.5 12 .802

42.4 2808 9.8 26 .735

42.7 2835 6.7 14 1.040

43.0 2851 6.3 14 .926

Test #2 - RL26

Charge Muzzle Vel. SD ES Group Size "



45.3 2715 4.7 12 .757

45.6 2759 8.7 22 .563

45.9 2776 9.5 25 .855

46.2 2794 6.4 16 .834

46.5 2817 5.1 13 .896

46.8 2844 9.2 21 .529

47.1 2855 6.9 19 1.093

47.4 2881 9.6 25 .905

47.7 2904 11 30 .739

48.0 2917 9.4 23 .826

Test #3 - H4831 SC

Charge Muzzle Vel. SD ES Group Size "



42.5 2614 9.0 25 .516

42.8 2631 6.7 16 .555

43.1 2642 11 28 .826

43.4 2665 7.0 18 .668

43.7 2682 6.2 15 .915

44.0 2696 7.6 15 .507

44.3 2714 5.9 14 .437

44.6 2733 5.0 12 .878

44.9 2746 10.8 27 .607

45.2 2760 4.5 10 1.010

Test #4 - H4350

Charge Muzzle Vel. SD ES Group Size "



40.0 2657 7.9 21 .971

40.3 2690 11 30 .888

40.6 2688 8.7 21 .799

40.9 2706 4.0 10 .799

41.2 2719 2.4 6 1.159

41.5 2737 4.7 12 .467

41.8 2750 4.4 11 .742

42.1 2769 9.9 25 .494

42.4 2792 2.6 7 .556

42.7 2806 7.4 19 .806

After doing these tests I thought I would have a clear winner but now I just want to test these all more thoroughly. So this test has turned into phase 1 now. I will see what kind of fine tuning I can do to these in the future. I will keep you all posted when phase 2 is completed and I will post the results for you all.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

There is a lot going on here:

RL16 - You went about 1 grain over max, you had an major POI shift at 41.8g, that is the beginning of optimal pressure for this combo.

RL26 - You went approximately 2 grains over with this powder, POI stayed consistent for all groups even though pressure was probably around 70,000+ PSI. This powder is a winner.

H4831SC - For some reason you didn't get to max pressure with this load (46g according to Hodgdon), but again POI was consistent, another possible winner.

H4350 - 1 grain over max, major POI shift at 41.5, this is where optimal pressure starts.

When doing this type of testing, group sizes mean nothing. That can be adjusted with seating depth. What you are looking for is pressure and POI shifts.
Hope this helps.

 

[EDMJustin]

There is a lot going on here:

RL16 - You went about 1 grain over max, you had an major POI shift at 41.8g, that is the beginning of optimal pressure for this combo.

RL26 - You went approximately 2 grains over with this powder, POI stayed consistent for all groups even though pressure was probably around 70,000+ PSI. This powder is a winner.

H4831SC - For some reason you didn't get to max pressure with this load (46g according to Hodgdon), but again POI was consistent, another possible winner.

H4350 - 1 grain over max, major POI shift at 41.5, this is where optimal pressure starts.

When doing this type of testing, group sizes mean nothing. That can be adjusted with seating depth. What you are looking for is pressure and POI shifts.
Hope this helps.

I agree completely, I was very happy with the results of the text I think that 4831sc produced the best groups, but H4350 gave me the best SD and ES. By far the best velocity was from the RL26. I am going to be doing another test and I will be playing with seating dept. I would really love to find a group that shoots low ES with the RL26

 

[Brandon05_88]

I would really be interested in seeing how H4831SC does until you hit pressure versus H4350. The velocity and accuracy between these two powders always intrigues me.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

I'm glad you got some data with h4831sc, as that's what I'm toying with since I find it more often than h4350. I love it personally, and am currently testing in my savage with a Shilen. I would rather potentially sacrifice barrel life with this powder vs h4350.

 

[TX_Punisher]

Thanks for the info. Just loaded up some rl 26 as well. Been using 4350 and hope to find a good load by switching. Like the speed from rl26.

 

[JMcBurn]

Thanks for the info. Just loaded up some rl 26 as well. Been using 4350 and hope to find a good load by switching. Like the speed from rl26.

What kind of velocity did you get?

 

[TX_Punisher]

What kind of velocity did you get?

Haven't shot them yet. Will get speeds when I do. 22" barrel.

 

[FOHA1]

Here's some results from a 24" Tikka T3x CTR. I started buying H4831sc when H4350 was so scarce, and have now standardized on it for PRS loads. Although the H4350 gave me some good groups with low SD, 45.2g of H4831sc and the 142g SMK's was a sweet spot.

r my PRS loads.

 

[knuckleballz]

I found my tikka t3x superlite liked rl26 with 47.9 with the 147eld -m .005" off the lands. This superlite 24" light profile barrel has been hard to load for. This combination is producing 1/2 moa groups. I wasn't able to get the higher velocity and accuracy with h4350. I was getting to the point of giving up on this gun for acceptable accuracy for a hunting rig til I found this combination. My CTR is much more accurate and easier to load for.

 

[knuckleballz]

This was with starline large primer brass and cci 250 primers. No pressure signs or primer issues. No stiff bolt lift. I have a new lab radar on the way for my next range trip to measure velocities and confirm ballistics.

 

[FOHA1]

I was getting discouraged with my initial groups, considering how well my other Creedmoor was doing with various loads, but that 45.2g of 4831sc was a sweetspot, been using it ever since.

 

[FOHA1]

These are 7 shot groups at 100yds, except the far lower right, that one is 14 shots. H4350 on the left and H4831 on the right. Badger/Krieger/KRG/Razor HD.

 

[BlueWater]

These are 7 shot groups at 100yds, except the far lower right, that one is 14 shots. H4350 on the left and H4831 on the right. Badger/Krieger/KRG/Razor HD.View attachment 6916220
View attachment 6916219

Charge and velocity?

 

[kev4usc]

I am running the exact barrel and bullets but my barrel has a 1 in 7.5 twist.
Any suggestions for the loads for this setup?

 

[EDMJustin]

I would try

I am running the exact barrel and bullets but my barrel has a 1 in 7.5 twist.
Any suggestions for the loads for this setup?

I would try the same work up. I don't think the twist will will affect your pressure while working up charge weights. It may affect you downrange performance though.

 

[kev4usc]

Thanks!
I have used the H4350 before but it's nowhere to be found now. I'm going to try the RL26.

 

[clcustom1911]

Thanks!
I have used the H4350 before but it's nowhere to be found now. I'm going to try the RL26.

140+ weight bullets and you should have a node in the 46-47 grain range.

I run my 142 matchkings with 46.9-47 of R26 inside Prime brass with Fed210M primers. Hammers.

 

[EDMJustin]

RL

Thanks!
I have used the H4350 before but it's nowhere to be found now. I'm going to try the RL26.

RL26 is very hard for me to find right now. In the end I went with the reloder 16. Gave me the lowest es/sd in most temps. More important for me being in Canada with such huge temp changes through the year.

 

[kev4usc]

Yes I can't find RL26 either.
Guess I'll give the RL 16 a try.

 

[Gustav7]

Just did a pressure test with 147's and RL26 today in my factory Savage 10 - 24" barrel.

Got to 47.5 and didn't really have anything on the case that'd concern me pressure wise... I just can't stuff anymore powder in the damn case lol

At 47.2 and 47.5 I got 2836fps for both.

Going to try 47.3 and see how it groups and how ES looks.

If I could push 147's at 2830 on regular basis that'd be pretty legit.

 

[leclairk]

Help me understand the correlation between group size and ES/SD. Seems like smaller ES/SD would mean tighter groups but that hasn’t necessarily been the case for me.

 

[DocRDS]

Breaks it down

 

[leclairk]

Breaks it down

Awesome. Thanks

 

[Contender-1]

Great thread. Just starting out with reloading the 147 eldm. Great info here.
Bob

 

[KYAggie]

@EDMJustin, I’m resurrecting this thread. Did you ever find a load with good ES and SD’s with R26? I’m thinking about trying it or H4831SC with a 143 ELDM and Sierra 144.

 

[clcustom1911]

@EDMJustin, I’m resurrecting this thread. Did you ever find a load with good ES and SD’s with R26? I’m thinking about trying it or H4831SC with a 143 ELDM and Sierra 144.

I just shot some of of my R26 loads I made 3.5 years ago. 47gr R26, 142 Matchking, Prime casing, 2.81" OAL. I made these loads when the ambient temperature was 55-65⁰f and they were running 2830 with SD of 10-12 amd ES of 35-45 out of my 24" Tikka T3x Tac A1. Small groups, 0.7moa or so

I shot them after they sat in the dry arizona garage for 3.5 years and the ambient/powder temperature was now up to 100⁰. AV: 2918, SD 19, ES: 59. Small groups, 0.7moa or so. No difficulty extracting. Primers were flat though. So, I'm definitely not going to use this load in the summer LOL.

I went with the standard 41.5 H4350 in Hornady/prime brass for a recent competition amd tied for 3rd. That combo gives my rifle 0.6moa average groups, but I shoot steel for competition. Velocity data was: average 2735, SD: 15, ES 50. At 102⁰ ambient temperature.

I have my first ever 1000y paper match coming and I'll use this same loading. I suck at wind reading, so I have a feeling my ammo won't be the limiting factor

 

[stello1001]

I just shot some of of my R26 loads I made 3.5 years ago. 47gr R26, 142 Matchking, Prime casing, 2.81" OAL. I made these loads when the ambient temperature was 55-65⁰f and they were running 2830 with SD of 10-12 amd ES of 35-45 out of my 24" Tikka T3x Tac A1. Small groups, 0.7moa or so

I shot them after they sat in the dry arizona garage for 3.5 years and the ambient/powder temperature was now up to 100⁰. AV: 2918, SD 19, ES: 59. Small groups, 0.7moa or so. No difficulty extracting. Primers were flat though. So, I'm definitely not going to use this load in the summer LOL.

I went with the standard 41.5 H4350 in Hornady/prime brass for a recent competition amd tied for 3rd. That combo gives my rifle 0.6moa average groups, but I shoot steel for competition. Velocity data was: average 2735, SD: 15, ES 50. At 102⁰ ambient temperature.

I have my first ever 1000y paper match coming and I'll use this same loading. I suck at wind reading, so I have a feeling my ammo won't be the limiting factor

Correct me if I'm wrong but that prime brass from 3 or so years ago is normal, right?

 

[clcustom1911]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that prime brass from 3 or so years ago is normal, right?

It's the original lot of Prime made by RUAG/Norma.

I actually tested it and Hornady brass from 3-4 years ago and Prime/Norma brass from 3-4 years ago have just about the same internal volume... Prime/Norma a little less. I use the same load of H4350 in both and haven't noticed a difference on paper/steel.

 

[stello1001]

It's the original lot of Prime made by RUAG/Norma.

I actually tested it and Hornady brass from 3-4 years ago and Prime/Norma brass from 3-4 years ago have just about the same internal volume... Prime/Norma a little less. I use the same load of H4350 in both and haven't noticed a difference on paper/steel.

Haha, I see how my post may not have been so clear. Yes, I meant Norma. My damn phone autocorrected to "normal" and I'm not sure my point came across.
Anyhow, thanks for following up.

 

[45-90]

I use hybrid cases and RL26 to run my factory 24" 6.5 CM.
I prefer 150 SMK over the 147 eldm or 153 gr Atips.
With hybrid cases these heavy bullets run 2964 fps for 153 Atip accuracy load to 2990 for 150 gr SMK, accuracy load.
I found 2880 to 2990 fps to be the accuracy area, in this 24" barrel.
Full max loads are not as accurate, in the 3050 fps area.
Or 140 grs in the max 3140 fps area need to drop velocity for accuracy.
Also have a 26" Bartlein ready to screw on the factory RPR.
RL26 is the 6.5 CM powder along with modified 6.8 X51 hybrid rifle cases, to bring max effort to the 6.5 CM
Hybrid cases also work for the 308 Win running the 200 SMK .715 BC at 2900+ fps in long barrels.
And why I use them in the 6.5 CM cause the hybrid cases proved to allow the 308 to out preform my 6.5 CM with standard brass cases.
Use them or not it's another option for the handloader.