6.5 creedmoor ammo awareness

[eastridge1213]

Posting this because I’m stuck purchasing factory ammo currently until I take the leap of starting reloading. 6.5 creed is almost impossible to find in my area, and when you do it’s hard to be picky as they only get random loads in. I picked up 2 boxes today, 140gr s&b and 125 gr winchester deer season. Limited to one box per load. As it turns out the s&b is known for over pressure issues out of savages.

Trying to minimize loss, is there any other known ammo to stay away from?

 

[Rob01]

I would bet the problem is more with the Savage rifles that had the issues than the ammo as some come in short throated and the rounds are probably getting jammed into the lands. Ruger has the issue too.

 

[eastridge1213]

How would you identify this without taking a chance with the rifle?

 

[Rob01]

Just measure oal to lands and you can see how the round sits in relation to the lands.

 

[OlsenG_360]

Federal 168gr gold medal match does the same thing in every savage 308 barrel I've tried it in. Shoots great but hope you don't need to eject a chambered round, it's jammed so hard into the lands it'll pull the bullet.

 

[eastridge1213]

With that said for the 168gr, would the 175 be even worse? Out of curiosity

 

[OlsenG_360]

With that said for the 168gr, would the 175 be even worse? Out of curiosity

I haven't shot the 175gr but I would assume so

 

[tag2601]

top choice for 6.5 is hornady's ELDX 143 grain. they are out there occasionally. also sierra makes a load at 140 something grains around their gamechanger bullet that seems to shoot pretty well.

 

[buggz]

Just measure oal to lands and you can see how the round sits in relation to the lands.

As newbie, I have to ask, what tool do you use for this?
Is there a guide, or quick how to?
I understand the general concept...

 

[Rob01]

As newbie, I have to ask, what tool do you use for this?
Is there a guide, or quick how to?
I understand the general concept...

The Hornady OAL Gauge is a simple tool to use. Search for some videos on its use as I know there are a bunch.

Lock‑N‑Load® O.A.L. Gauges & Modified Cases - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Lock-N-Load® O.A.L. Gauges Regulating seating depth and the resulting jump to the rifling is widely regarded as fundamental to improved accuracy. A few thousandths of an inch change between the bullet and the rifling can make the difference betw...

www.hornady.com

 

[buggz]

Thanks!

Isn't the jump space from OAL to the lands bullet dependent?
This measures that with out a bullet in the case?

Reading the Hornady instructions now...

 

[Holliday]

Take a sharpie and black up the exposed bullet on your round. Then CAREFULLY run it into the chamber and close the bolt.

Now CAREFULLY open the bolt and while you are sliding it back trying to hold the cartridge centered. The ejector is going to want to push it sideways.

Post a couple pictures. There will likely be some marks but we should be able to discern those from hitting the “lands” marks.

I hope I don’t need to tell you to do this somewhere safe with the rifle pointed in a safe direction.......

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

You are new to all of this correct?

step 1: outsource the problem to Savage. No one has better costumer support (for the slow kids, I said better not the best)

step 2: let them shoot their ammo

step 3: prepare for the “oh it had a tight chamber, we fixed it, here’s some extra magazines for the trouble, thanks for being a customer.

It’s what I did.

Also, S&B seems to be overpressured in my AI as well. AI guys told me to stop being a poor. THAT ammo is it’s own problem. But your rifle prob has a tight chamber.

call Savage. They will help more than the conjecture you will get here.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Also. You are hurting yourself buying all kinds of random brass if you are planning to reload.

use 1 type of brass from the same lot. Mixing brass is a sure way to get poor results.

help future you, buy one brand of brass.

 

[johnnyvw]

Right now on ammoseek the most available match rounds seem to be Hornady ELD match in either 140 or 147 gr. It's a tough time to try a bunch of different ammo, both for price and availablity

 

[The38Super]

Not sure if they still have it in stock, but I bought a bunch of the Fed Gold Medal Berger from Hide sponsor Every Day Gun Guy, a couple weeks ago. Signed up for the newsletter to get 10% off. $2.30 per round shipped.
Because my county in Hell (Kansas) has a damned 10% sales tax, I've been trying to buy from places that don't collect it. I always get screwed with Midway, because they do.

 

[eastridge1213]

You are new to all of this correct?

step 1: outsource the problem to Savage. No one has better costumer support (for the slow kids, I said better not the best)

step 2: let them shoot their ammo

step 3: prepare for the “oh it had a tight chamber, we fixed it, here’s some extra magazines for the trouble, thanks for being a customer.

It’s what I did.

Also, S&B seems to be overpressured in my AI as well. AI guys told me to stop being a poor. THAT ammo is it’s own problem. But your rifle prob has a tight chamber.

call Savage. They will help more than the conjecture you will get here.

I really hate to send a brand new rifle back, especially without trying it with quality ammo first. I wouldn’t hesitate if I thought it was defective. I may try some of this Winchester and hornady match if I can find it to see if it shows any issues with that first.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

I really hate to send a brand new rifle back, especially without trying it with quality ammo first. I wouldn’t hesitate if I thought it was defective. I may try some of this Winchester and hornady match if I can find it to see if it shows any issues with that first.

You do you. I was just offering a suggestion.

best of luck.

 

[Brown082]

I shot the 175gr and it does the same thing !

 

[eastridge1213]

You do you. I was just offering a suggestion.

best of luck.

I appreciate the suggestion. I may just call savage to see how long it’ll be gone and if they will cover shipping.

I thought about trying to chamber and unchamber a few of these live rounds to see if there is any obvious signs like pulling bullets.

 

[mtang45]

I appreciate the suggestion. I may just call savage to see how long it’ll be gone and if they will cover shipping.

I thought about trying to chamber and unchamber a few of these live rounds to see if there is any obvious signs like pulling bullets.

Black out the bullet with a sharpie as was suggested by @Max above. That's an easy quick check to see if your bullet is in the lands.

 

[buggz]

This looks like a nice kit.

HANDS-ON: Short Action Customs Modular Headspace Comparator Kit – Ultimate Reloader

ultimatereloader.com

​

 

[Rob01]

Black on the bullet can show hitting but not oal. Being new you should learn to measure oal to lands so know how to do it.

 

[eastridge1213]

I quickly tested the ammo I had. I didn’t sharpie the end as I don’t have a stable platform like a bipod yet for it to sit while I carefully insert it. Basically I chambered both types of ammo and compared to the round next to it in the box. Neither round had obvious markings on the bullet except where it was pushed in, the case had correlating mark. Both rounds seemed to be the same length as their box neighbor afterward. I know this isn’t as scientific as calipers or even the sharpie method. I’m just now getting all these components together. I’ll retest as soon as more stuff shows up

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Once you make the leap to handloading, things will be more consistent for you

 

[eastridge1213]

If I use a sharpie to color these bullets, what exactly am I looking for?

I was able to pick up a box of hornady match 147gr eldm. Would the effects be more exaggerated since this is heavier that the 140 of the s&b?

 

[Holliday]

If I use a sharpie to color these bullets, what exactly am I looking for?

I was able to pick up a box of hornady match 147gr eldm. Would the effects be more exaggerated since this is heavier that the 140 of the s&b?

The sharpie (any marker will do) will rub off wherever it touches the lands. IF it touches. You certainly don’t need a bipod for this.

Just be aware that anywhere it touches during chambering or extraction will rub off marker as well. This is a pretty basic procedure that was taught to me by Zak Smith when he first taught me hand-loading/reloading.

I consider this a basic “field expedient” method for verifying that you are not touching your lands with any given ammo/ rifle.

For more precise information,I use this method for setting up my reloads. I personally have better results using this over the tools. :

 

[Yondering]

I would bet the problem is more with the Savage rifles that had the issues than the ammo as some come in short throated and the rounds are probably getting jammed into the lands. Ruger has the issue too.

Don't know if it's the same issue (although I suspect so) but the issue I've had with every single Ruger American in 6.5 Creedmoor I've had in my hands is a rough chamber that causes the cases to stick, and more so with particular brands of brass that are a little softer. I know it's not a pressure issue because I've been able to duplicate the problem with mild handloads in the same brass, while better brass like Hornady and LC (from back when we re-formed that to make Creedmoor) ran through without issue even with hot loads.

I expect most people would diagnose this as high pressure without knowing any better, but it's really just some rough machining marks in the body area of the chamber. Not a great thing to let out of the factory doors, but some minor lapping/polishing has been 100% successful in fixing the problem for me.

Also, the throats were overly long in all of those rifles, typical for production rifles of course but pretty much the opposite of the short throat issue in the Savages.

 

[buggz]

The sharpie (any marker will do) will rub off wherever it touches the lands. IF it touches. You certainly don’t need a bipod for this.

Just be aware that anywhere it touches during chambering or extraction will rub off marker as well. This is a pretty basic procedure that was taught to me by Zak Smith when he first taught me hand-loading/reloading.

I consider this a basic “field expedient” method for verifying that you are not touching your lands with any given ammo/ rifle.

For more precise information,I use this method for setting up my reloads. I personally have better results using this over the tools. :

FYI,
The video says it is an age restricted video requiring login?

 

[Rob01]

Don't know if it's the same issue (although I suspect so) but the issue I've had with every single Ruger American in 6.5 Creedmoor I've had in my hands is a rough chamber that causes the cases to stick, and more so with particular brands of brass that are a little softer. I know it's not a pressure issue because I've been able to duplicate the problem with mild handloads in the same brass, while better brass like Hornady and LC (from back when we re-formed that to make Creedmoor) ran through without issue even with hot loads.

I expect most people would diagnose this as high pressure without knowing any better, but it's really just some rough machining marks in the body area of the chamber. Not a great thing to let out of the factory doors, but some minor lapping/polishing has been 100% successful in fixing the problem for me.

Also, the throats were overly long in all of those rifles, typical for production rifles of course but pretty much the opposite of the short throat issue in the Savages.

Hadn't heard of rough chambers but the short throat issue is what it is. Have heard multiple first hand accounts of the throats being shorter than the SAAMI .199 freebore and that would cause issues with even factory ammo. They were real short. Add rough chambers and that's just another issue.