Gunsmithing 6.5 creedmoor build questions

[Jeremybj]

Hey everyone

My buddy and I are doing a what if build on a 6.5 creedmoor he might be building.

He plans on shooting 120 A max, 123 A max, 129 SST, and 140 A Amax. Would you go with the 8.5 twist or 8 twist? What if he were to shoot all of those bullets plus 95 V max? Probably wont shoot the V max, but I'm just looking for suggestions.

The MAIN purpose of this rifle is targets. But he might try to shoot a deer, antelope, or other varmints.

From what I am seeing for the build, all that is needed is a Stevens 200 short action in 308 and the bolt head will match up and the rest of the rifle can be built around this, is that correct?

Also, the creedmoor is pretty new, is it here to stay?

 

[landcbeitner]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

The 8.5 would probably work fine in most conditions with the 140's but, I would personally go with the 8 twist... I have one and it shoots the 120's great as well as the 140's. Never tried anything lighter so I can't say on the 95gr bullets.

Is the creedmoor here to stay? I hope so... I just finished one. Some of the local matches are restricting to short action non-magnum only... the 7-08, 260 and 243 are among the better choices. The advantage of the creedmoor is that it's a tad shorter making it easier to stay within short action mag length without any special reamer specs.

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

So your 1 in 8 will shoot 120s and 140s great? And ill assume everything in between.

 

[landcbeitner]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

Yes, here's 5 of the 120 factory ammo (not the best group, just borrowed 5 rounds from a buddy to see what they'd do)... my hand loads with the 142 Matrix are better.

 

[VKC]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

1 in 8.5" is probably good enough for even the 140s, except in certain conditions. But I would go with 1 in 8" to make sure.

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

Based on what all of the factory rifles are, I think 1 in 8 is the way to go.

Now to throw more in the mix, barrel length.

I am debating between 20-23 inches on it, shorter to save weight for carrying, longer for targets and velocities.

I see a lot of factory guns with 22" barrels, so I'm starting to settle on that number a little....

Anyone have a recommendation on barrel lengths? I doubt it will ever be at a 1000 yard range, but 600 for sure....

 

[jeepwilson]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

You better keep it as long as possible.To get all you can out of it,I would say no shorter than 24.Mine is a 1-9 twist and finished at 25 1/4 in.And the one I just finished is 24 in on a Savage action and the ne I am getting ready to do will be somewhere around 27 in.So I hope the Creedmoor is here to stay.And on bolt face size you can use 308,243,22-250,7-08.And if you can`t find one in those calibers call Sharp Shooters Supply and they will sell you the parts to change the blt face for like $55.00.Good Luck

 

[LRI]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

6mm Competition Match seems to beating out the Creedmoor these days. Our guys have been reporting back with really good performance.

8 minutes less elevation at 1K.
9 inches inside of the 6.5 for wind.
3000+ round count

It is a wildcat so its a little more effort and dies aren't the cheapest either, but it sure seems to work well enough.

Just an idea.

C.

 

[Hoser]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6mm Competition Match seems to beating out the Creedmoor these days. </div></div>

I am very happy with my 6CM. Very happy.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6mm Competition Match seems to beating out the Creedmoor these days.
8 minutes less elevation at 1K.
</div></div>

With what load?


My Creed is 31MOA to 1000. Youre getting to 1000 with 23MOA??? Real world not a bal calc?

And getting 3000+ rounds from the same 6mm?

I dont believe that.




And Creeds shoot great with short barrels. I hear people say you "should" keep a certain length barrel to make good use of the cartridge.
I make pretty good use of it with a 23" barrel, shooting 140s at 2835.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont believe that.</div></div>


That's what everyone says. . .at first.

By all rights, question it. I encourage you. But also do some research.

It's real, it works, and it works well. Really well in fact.

Experience. It never comes cheap.

C.

 

[landcbeitner]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

My Creedmoor (28" barrel) gets to 1k with 27.5 MOA (using 142gr Matrix bullets). If I could get there with about 20 MOA and get 3k of competitive barrel life...I'll be starting a new build tommorow!

 

[InTheWeeds]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

I think the CM is here to stay. Some say it feeds better in gas guns than a .260 due to its shoulder angle.. I can believe that as I have the DPMS LR-5.6 and love it.

 

[RBros]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

My 243 Rogue wildcat is very close to the 6mm Competition Match. 20 MOA elevation with a Dtac to 1k at 1500'ASL with a 27" barrel. Have around 1500rds down the barrel and it is not showing much wear at all and still has way under 1/2moa accuracy. Could push it harder, but there wasn't much point. SLOOOOOOOW powders, shoulder angles and throat design are the key to longevity with these larger 6mm's.

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

I'm not looking to high jack this thread so with that said first and foremost is an apology to the OP.


The 6.5 Creedmoor is a good round and works really well in bolt guns and large frame platform AR style rifles.

What it has going for it is readily loaded factory match ammo for those that do not reload

The problem is it for me doesn't have enough case capacity.


Now, if you are looking to push the 105/115 6mm bullets @ 3,000fps with out burning up a barrel in 2,000 rounds you may want to check out the 6mm Competition Match.

With a DA of 3,500 feet it takes 7.2 mil to get to 1,000 yards for a 100 yard zero.

At 500 yards with a 100 yard zero the 6CM takes 2.3 mil up for a drop of 41.9 inches.

 

[LWILLIAMS]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

I am running my 6CM with the 115 Dtac bullet at 2985 fps with 48.5gr of H-1000. With over 2000 rounds through the barrel still holding my 1/2 moa and on a day like today when it is 7 degrees Ferinheit, 70% humidity and an elevation of 4500 I can hit steel with 25 moa with a 200 yard zero. In the summer with warmer temps and lower humidity this number goes down pretty well. Did I mention what it does in the wind. I did not believe at first but I have no reason at this point not to believe I will get all 3000 rounds or more out of this barrel. Dont knock it until you try it. The only and I mean only bummer to this round is getting the dies from redding. You are going to have to look for 243 Egolff improved dies when you call redding.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

Pretty amazing cartridge to be able to achieve that high of a round count in 6mm. While boasting those ballistics.



A 243win gets what?... about 1500 rounds of competitive barrel life(even with slow powder and long barrel)? So the 6cm gets double the barrel life with more velocity?


What is the barrel life on Georges' Crusader?

 

[LRI]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

Understanding the 6.5 Creedmoor:

Origins: Dennis Demille, owner of Creedmoor Sports in Oceanside, CA. Creedmoor sports started with Jim Hill. I used to buy all sorts of chit from him back when I was shooting in the Marine Corps during the early 90's.

Dennis, a retired Marine Warrant officer, bought the place from him after retiring. Dennis and I used to shoot together during Division Matches and the regional events down in Ben Avery/Black Canyon.

The cartridge was developed for NRA Highpower across the course shooting. Specifically, match rifle category. 600 yards is the maximum distance on that particular course of fire.

While its been reasonably successful at 1K, its outside the scope of the original intent/design. It started coming out around 2004-ish I believe. As a sort of alternative to the David Tubb inspired 6X and 6XC. The addition of commercially available brass suggests its not going anywhere so long as folks keep buying it.

The principle difference with the 6mm Competition Match is the smaller caliber and powder selection. Instead of 4831SC or equivelant, you go with H1000, Retumbo, RL22-25, N570, etc. . . This is where barrel length becomes more critical. You need the distance to get things up to speed. The trade off being cooler temps/pressures and better longevity.

Velocities we've been hearing from customers ranges from low 3000's to upwards of almost 3200fps. Shove a 115VTAC in front of that and crunch the numbers. It's fairly impressive.

All of this stuff (6X, 6XC, 6.5X47Lapua, 6.5 Creedmore, and prolly the 6mmCM) stems from a single cartridge that's not widely known: The 6mm X 47 Swiss Match manufactured by RUAG in Europe. I saw this for the first time in 2000 when I ran across a Grunig/Elmiger CISM rifle group sent to me by Kurt Grunig. It was staggering to say the least.

RUAG had zero interest in selling components. You could by ammo provided you purchased shipping containers full of it.

It frustrated everyone-to include David Tubb. The 6X and XC were spawned shortly thereafter.

I could get brass through a friend who traveled to Switzerland often. He'd mail me little sandwhich baggies full of once fired that he picked off the firing line where the Swiss National Team trained. David Kiff made me tooling and I built a handful of rifles this way. Most noteworthy being Shane Harless's L/H RockRiver AR-10 course gun that cleaned the 1K Tubb range at Whittington with a 12X. Not bad for a silly gas gun.

Anyways, this inspired the small primer 6.5x47Lapua and so on.

Not a big deal, but interesting to see how things evolve over the years.

C.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

Just had a lot of fun on a National Guard range last weekend at a Machine gun shoot.

Got to shoot my 23" barreled 6.5Creedmoor out to 1100yards. Was able to pepper the target pretty consistently, getting 3 in a row right handed, then first round hit after switching to LH.

Any misses were my fault, as always with this rifle.

23" barrel with Factory Hornady 140Amax's are plenty consistent out to 1100 yards. If I hand loaded for it I'm sure I could pinch a little more out of them, or use a better bullet even.


The 6.5creedmoor is a VERY capable round out to well over 1000 yards, even with a 22/23" barrel and factory ammo.

It's here to stay. Especially if Hornady keeps up with factory ammo demands!




Got to shoot an MG42 at the shoot as well

First time shooting anything full auto.

 

[John L]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

The 6.5 Creedmoore is here to stay. Anyone I know with one is very happy.

As a 6 CM owner I am also happy with my choice. I am getting 3050 with the 105 Berger hybrid. My favorite thing is picking the load to use by X count. That tells me all my loads shoot great, just some better than others.
I get to shoot with the gentleman that brought this cartridge out and the barrel life stories are true with some going to the 4000 mark. Put 750 on mine last year. Very little throat movement and almost no firecracking as checked with a borescope.

Guess you really could not go wrong with either choice.

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

If it were my gun, I would consider a wildcat, but it isn't, it is for a buddy that doesn't have reloading gear. So we plan on buying 140 A Max factory ammo for it, and I'll reload when I can for him(Hornady makes it nice by listing the load data).

All I know is that building this rifle makes me want to build a dedicated target rifle for myself...... Stupid money.

Keith, do you think a 22" would get out to 1000 with factory 140 A Max loads? I was first thinking 23", but 22" would be better for carrying it around.....

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

Also, what is the REALISTIC barrel life on a 6.5 Creedmoor?

 

[Blanman]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeremybj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it were my gun, I would consider a wildcat, but it isn't, it is for a buddy that doesn't have reloading gear. So we plan on buying 140 A Max factory ammo for it, and I'll reload when I can for him(Hornady makes it nice by listing the load data).

All I know is that building this rifle makes me want to build a dedicated target rifle for myself...... Stupid money.

Keith, do you think a 22" would get out to 1000 with factory 140 A Max loads? I was first thinking 23", but 22" would be better for carrying it around..... </div></div>

You won't notice the difference between 23" and 22". I promise.

 

[Blanman]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

3000-4000 rounds seems to be about when everyone's barrels start to go

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

Boomer,
Notice the difference between the weight or the accuracy of the rifle?

 

[Blanman]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

I was mostly talking about weight, barrel length shouldn't effect any accuracy

 

[EricF517]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

I was debating on picking up a Savage Predator Hunter in 6.5CM. I a liking everything I am reading about this round.

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

My buddy might have me talked into building 2 of these rifles at this rate, one for him, one for me.....

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeremybj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Keith, do you think a 22" would get out to 1000 with factory 140 A Max loads? I was first thinking 23", but 22" would be better for carrying it around..... </div></div>

Hell ya it would.
23" with a Rock Creek gets me to 1100y no problem.

...if only I was as good as my rifle

The only negative I can think of for short barrels is muzzle pressure. When you shorten a barrel, you raise the air pressure at muzzle when the bullet exits from muzzle blast. But I've still been able to get good accuracy even with short, high muzzle pressure rifles.

Given the 6.5Creemoors small powder charge(41.5gr of H4350), burnt through a 6.5mm barrel, I would think having a 22/33" barrel would be like a 308 with a 16-18" barrel.
...about as short as Id go with both cartridges and might be comparable with muzzle pressure at those lengths.



Anyone with quickload could shed some light on muzzle pressure at dif barrel lengths...

 

[RingingSteel]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

I purchased a 6.5 CM a couple of years ago in a Cooper. It sported a 1:9 twist and stablized the 140 Amax and 142 Sierra pills. At that time I had a problem with the brass. Even when duplicating the factory load the primer pockets would loosen after about four firings. We have a couple of shooters that use them in our club matches and one has brass issues and the other doesn't. I am pretty sure they both have 1:8.5 twist barrels and shoot the 139 gr Lapua, 140 gr Amax and 142 gr match kings.

I traded mine off and opted for the 6.5x47 Lapua. The Lapua brass is far superior than anything out there and I can duplicate the 6.5 CM performance.

 

[OutlawTen5]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

One of my 6.5 Creedmoor rigs was built by Mike Bush at UGSW originally for F Class T/R and is a 23" 1/8tw. I've run the factory Hornady 140gr AMax thru my TBAC 30-P to 1300 yards with great results.
The rifle is stupid accurate as are my Beanland/GA Precision and Score High built 6.5 Creedmoors with barrels ranging from 24" to 26".

I've got a RD Precision built fast twist .243 that I recently shot the barrel out of. I was thinking of sending this one to Jon Beanland for a new barrel, but this time, on this particular
rifle I wanted to try a 6.5 Creedmoor in 1/8.5tw 28" and compare it to my others.

 

[Jeremybj]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

4 times fired and the brass is done is not that good, at all. Anyone else have some feedback on how many times they can fire their brass before tossing it?

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

It depends I've heard anywhere from 4 to 10 firings. I'm still on my 1st.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 6.5 creedmoor build questions

I love my 6.5 Creedmoor. The round is here to stay. Like Boomer said we've been seeing 3,000-4,000 rounds depending on the barrel.