6.5 Creedmoor load data question

[k3k0a808]

Im new to this forum and fairly new to reloading, just got my Labradar and put together the information into this spreadsheet, i would like to know peoples opinion on looking at the data and looking at group size, the best group was 41.8 @1/4MOA, but looking at the numbers its not the best.

 

[m1match]

I would also try out 42.5 of H4350, which is my load with a 140 ELDM, Hornady cases, and CCI BR2 primers. In my testing around 42-42.5 grains, the curve of charge weight vs velocity flattened our meaning in that range the load was less sensitive to variations in charge weight which is what you want. In your data, it looks like the curve is flattening out at 42.0 grains and that load has the lowest ES and SD at that upper end of your velocity testing. The 140 ELDMs tend to do well when run around 2800 fps. Also check out the articles on bullet seating depth testing on the precisionrifleblog.com. Mark Gordon of Short Action Customs and Ken Satterlee did quite and extensive test jumping bullets way more than conventional wisdom says and they got excellent results seating bullets from .050" to .120" from the lands.

 

[k3k0a808]

I would also try out 42.5 of H4350, which is my load with a 140 ELDM, Hornady cases, and CCI BR2 primers. In my testing around 42-42.5 grains, the curve of charge weight vs velocity flattened our meaning in that range the load was less sensitive to variations in charge weight which is what you want. In your data, it looks like the curve is flattening out at 42.0 grains and that load has the lowest ES and SD at that upper end of your velocity testing. The 140 ELDMs tend to do well when run around 2800 fps. Also check out the articles on bullet seating depth testing on the precisionrifleblog.com. Mark Gordon of Short Action Customs and Ken Satterlee did quite and extensive test jumping bullets way more than conventional wisdom says and they got excellent results seating bullets from .050" to .120" from the lands.

all my other loads had no pressure signs, 42 gave me a mark from the ejector, should i push it further?

 

[m1match]

Ejector marks are not good, I probably wouldn't push it. You also have a flattening of the velocity curve between 41.2 and 41.4 plus your testing at 41.2 had the lowest ES and SD of your data. For many years I loaded H4350 and 140 ELDMs at velocities of around 2730-2750 with excellent results so you might want to go do some more testing around 41.2 and try different seating depths. I took my H4350 load and increased seating depth to .080" off the lands and got surprisingly excellent results so thats what I am going with today.

 

[clcustom1911]

When I look at the data, especially 41.6 with the 1 and 2 standard deviations away, you are basically within the 41.5-41.7 velocities. For me, I'd do either a 20 round velocity string with 41.6 to see if the numbers hold true. OR do a seating depth test with 41.6 to see if I could tightenthat group up a hair (or maybe not, it looks good).

Either way, I like 41.6 because if you pour a 41.5 or 41.7 charge on occasion, you're still gonna be in that same velocity range.

41.5 is my go-to with 140 snd 142 class projectiles in Prime or Hornady brass and 210M primers

 

[k3k0a808]

Ejector marks are not good, I probably wouldn't push it. You also have a flattening of the velocity curve between 41.2 and 41.4 plus your testing at 41.2 had the lowest ES and SD of your data. For many years I loaded H4350 and 140 ELDMs at velocities of around 2730-2750 with excellent results so you might want to go do some more testing around 41.2 and try different seating depths. I took my H4350 load and increased seating depth to .080" off the lands and got surprisingly excellent results so thats what I am going with today.

right on, thank you! yeah my seating depth is .02 off the lands, i know that 41.5 is a universal load and im using peterson brass which they say uses less powder. so yeah 41.2 makes sense, i was going to go with 41.8 just because some people said ignore the sd and go with the group but yeah, ill make another batch with different seating depths and try them out, thank you again!

 

[straightshooter1]

right on, thank you! yeah my seating depth is .02 off the lands, i know that 41.5 is a universal load and im using peterson brass which they say uses less powder. so yeah 41.2 makes sense, i was going to go with 41.8 just because some people said ignore the sd and go with the group but yeah, ill make another batch with different seating depths and try them out, thank you again!

Aloha k3k0a808,

IMHO, I'd work on seating depth with the 41.5-41.6 loads.

 

[k3k0a808]

Aloha k3k0a808,

IMHO, I'd work on seating depth with the 41.5-41.6 loads.

yeah i got 150 more bullets.. seems like everyone is sold out at the moment, but im going to try a bunch of different things, one being that. i am also being told that my numbers are good enough for 41.8 and to look at grouping more than the numbers.. thought it would be pretty cut and dry but im learning there's a lot to learn

 

[straightshooter1]

yeah i got 150 more bullets.. seems like everyone is sold out at the moment, but im going to try a bunch of different things, one being that. i am also being told that my numbers are good enough for 41.8 and to look at grouping more than the numbers.. thought it would be pretty cut and dry but im learning there's a lot to learn

The reason I suggested those loads was that I ignored what I saw on paper (for the most part, though they do appear to me to be at about the same vertical) and liked the SD's and ES's were good, low and consistent. Working on the seating depth will likely help tighten up your groups with that load.

 

[k3k0a808]

The reason I suggested those loads was that I ignored what I saw on paper (for the most part, though they do appear to me to be at about the same vertical) and liked the SD's and ES's were good, low and consistent. Working on the seating depth will likely help tighten up your groups with that load.

right on, yeah im going to try everything... just take that rifle to range and focus on that, what seating depths would you recommend me trying? right now its seated to -.020

 

[straightshooter1]

right on, yeah im going to try everything... just take that rifle to range and focus on that, what seating depths would you recommend me trying? right now its seated to -.020

Well, to start with, I'd only use one powder load (the 41.5) and since you said these groups you fired were .002 off the lands, I'd start at .010 off and work backwards with .005 intervals and only fire 3 shot groups (but, I'd load 4 of each and only shoot the 4th if I really felt I made a bad trigger pull or whatever). As you shoot the 3 shot groups, watch as they either get get smaller then open up some more (time to stop and you've got your load). They may open up before they get smaller, so you're looking for that transition point where the load is doing it's best. You won't need a chrono for this as what you see on paper is now the key. Then later when you're cartridge is tuned, you can chrono it to see what your getting with it.

I'm assuming you're not using something like a Wilson seating die and an arbor press that can be used to make adjustments at the range. So, if you're loading 4 and those that aren't used, you can pull the bullets and re-seat them for use at some other time.

 

[rockchalk06]

For what it's worth, I started my seating depth testing at 41.5 grains of H4350. Barrel is a 22" factory Bergara. I started from .020" working out to .070". Decent sub .5 moa groups, but numbers kinda sucked. Backed off to 40.9 and found the magic number for this rifle. Every 140 grain bullet I've tried, loves the 40.9 like it's November 5th for Marty McFly.

SD's below 4 most of the time with that charge.

 

[spife7980]

i was going to go with 41.8 just because some people said ignore the sd and go with the group but yeah, ill make another batch with different seating depths and try them out, thank you again!

I would chase it, at least see if its repeatable. An sd of 6.5 with an es of 16 is pretty damn good.

 

[Gustav7]

I run the 147's and I had a pretty nice seating depth node from .040"-.070" off. Precision rifle blog did a pretty good test across multiple shooters with the 147's, so I can't imagine the 140's are too much different.

I'd do something like:
40 thou
60 thou
80 thou
100 thou
Do 5 shot groups with those at 200yds if you can. You already did 20 thou off so you have that info. See what that tells you and then fine tune even more if you want to.

 

[k3k0a808]

I run the 147's and I had a pretty nice seating depth node from .040"-.070" off. Precision rifle blog did a pretty good test across multiple shooters with the 147's, so I can't imagine the 140's are too much different.

I'd do something like:
40 thou
60 thou
80 thou
100 thou
Do 5 shot groups with those at 200yds if you can. You already did 20 thou off so you have that info. See what that tells you and then fine tune even more if you want to.

will do, gonna make a bunch of loads and try em all out lol... my range days have been changing lately. Usually i got 4+ rifles and just running em all but now im just bringing one out and focusing on it. Cant really push it out to 200 here in hawaii, public range is only 100 but i am trying to get onto base where there is a 200yd range.. I've also shot on private land here out to 600yds but i can only go when my buddies go and that's once every few months

 

[260284]

I use Peterson brass, 140 ELDMs, and Rl16 in my 6.5 Creed. I ended up at 41.4 gr and then ran a seating test from .010 to .070 and .055 ended up giving me the best grouping and sd. I used to load the at .020", but after seeing the Precision Rifle Blog article on seating depth, I am glad I gave it a shot.

You were smart to stop where you did with you powder charge as Peterson brass has quite a bit less volume than Hornady and a little less than Lapua.

 

[k3k0a808]

I use Peterson brass, 140 ELDMs, and Rl16 in my 6.5 Creed. I ended up at 41.4 gr and then ran a seating test from .010 to .070 and .055 ended up giving me the best grouping and sd. I used to load the at .020", but after seeing the Precision Rifle Blog article on seating depth, I am glad I gave it a shot.

You were smart to stop where you did with you powder charge as Peterson brass has quite a bit less volume than Hornady and a little less than Lapua.

got some time off from work yesterday, thought id check out the 41.8 further with a 20 shot string, broke them down in sets of 5 and first 5 was great, 5.5sd 1/4 grouping again... but as i shot the next groups sd gradually went up, groups got bigger, last string was 9.9sd and just under moa grouping, im starting to see the data better, but is it because any variation will make that load inconsistent? i also tried some seating depth tests with the 41.4

.03 average-2742
sd - 7.74
es - 15.62
group size - .63

.04 average - 2743
sd - 6.5
es - 15.11
group size - .73

.05 average - 2746
sd - 9.38
es - 26.11
group size - .70
gonna try focus on this load and try more seating depths

 

[k3k0a808]

Did a seating depth test with 41.5 of h4350, i think it went pretty well, i think i found the load up at .050-.055 off

 

[salks]

I have recently found 2 good loads jumping my bullets further. -.050 with 109 hyb. in 6mm creedmore and jumping -.060 with 142 SMK in 6.5 creedmore. I think from now on when I start testing loads instead of starting at -.020 I am just gonna start at -.050 and move up or down from there instead of -.020. Thanks to the research done on the precision rifle blog.