6.5 Creedmoor Loads - Hornady 147 gr ELD-M (H4350 and RL16 Preferred)

[SMTGWKD]

I've been shooting factory Hornady 147 gr 6.5 Creedmoor ammunition through my Desert Tech SRS-A1 (26" barrel) with great success. I'm going to begin loading with Reloader 17 to maximize velocity at distances exceeding 1000 yards.

I've searched high and low for some load data - preferably with barrel length and velocity numbers - but have only found one or two thus far. I'm hoping there are at least a few more individuals running this setup who can provide some feedback as I begin my load development.

Thanks so much!

 

[SMTGWKD]

If few are loading the new 147s perhaps someone can provide some insight on the 143 eld-x and their experience with how much powder drop is normal for a 4 grain increase in bullet weight?

I'll be loading up from lower powder charges and working up but it helps to know where others have seen max for their rifles so I don't have to take apart too many rounds.

 

[Rob01]

Not RL17 but I use the same H4350 powder charge for the 147s as I do for the 140s. You could probably start on the lower side of the 140 RL17 load and work up.

 

[SMTGWKD]

Not RL17 but I use the same H4350 powder charge for the 147s as I do for the 140s. You could probably start on the lower side of the 140 RL17 load and work up.

Perfect - exactly the input I was looking for. That gives me the load spreads I need to begin ladder testing. I'll report back with my rifle's favorite loading of 147s and Reloader 17.

On a side note - where on earth are you finding H4350? I'm beginning with RL17 since it seems less "unobtainable"...

 

[briang7511]

i would suggest looking to RL16. havent got my hands on 147s yet but the 140s are shooting real well with rl16.

 

[SMTGWKD]

i would suggest looking to RL16. havent got my hands on 147s yet but the 140s are shooting real well with rl16.

And just after I purchased 2 lbs of RL17... haha!

 

[GhengisAhn175]

You don't have to use RL16, RL 17 is fine also.

Just like using H4350 , 4451 or other powders.

any of these powders will work for you if tuned properly

 

[SMTGWKD]

You don't have to use RL16, RL 17 is fine also.

Just like using H4350 , 4451 or other powders.

I'm with you - I'm using CFE223 and Varget in .223 since Varget was scarce for a while. I actually settled on RL 17 as a friend of mine achieved better accuracy and velocity per grain of powder with good relative pressure signs, etc using RL 17 instead of H4350. Since I can't find H4350 anywhere locally RL 17 for the win!

 

[briang7511]

i do use RL17 but just for target use, its velocity change with different temps that i find a bit difficult to work with. i will see a 100 fps difference from 80 deg to 20 deg. not that big a deal for target use just keep good notes. Lets just say i wont be using any more as long as i can get RL16.

 

[SMTGWKD]

i do use RL17 but just for target use, its velocity change with different temps that i find a bit difficult to work with. i will see a 100 fps difference from 80 deg to 20 deg. not that big a deal for target use just keep good notes. Lets just say i wont be using any more as long as i can get RL16.

Interesting. Do you find that much difference in temperature stability between those two loads in reloader?

 

[briang7511]

Interesting. Do you find that much difference in temperature stability between those two loads in reloader?

my load with RL17 runs 2850 in the summer, in the winter 2750.

 

[SMTGWKD]

my load with RL17 runs 2850 in the summer, in the winter 2750.

Wow - more specifically, I was wondering if you see that much smaller of a spread using another Reloader powder (RL 16). I didn't realize that different powders withing the same manufacturer are that different in temp stability.

 

[Rob01]

That's a crazy swing. Never seen anything close to that with H4350.

 

[briang7511]

i do like my H4350, but its tough to come by and my supply is running out quick. As far as RL16 goes i have no problems running in the same range 2820-2850 with 140s. I started using it about 6 weeks ago, temps havent warmed up yet to test the temp stability.

hornady 140 eldm factory ammo was 2750 in 20 deg temp, 2 weeks later i was in kentucky 70deg temps and i was at 2800 fps. yes same box/lot.

 

[Longshot85]

I have limited but stellar ( single digit SD AND ES) using IMR 4451, let me know if you're interested.........avg velocity was 2858 which yielded supersonic bullet flight to a little past 1730 yards when I ran it through a ballistic calculator

 

[SMTGWKD]

I have limited but stellar ( single digit SD AND ES) using IMR 4451, let me know if you're interested.........avg velocity was 2858 which yielded supersonic bullet flight to a little past 1730 yards when I ran it through a ballistic calculator

PM me with the data - very interested. I like to have a few loads with different powders so I'm not limited when supply is slim. Thanks!

 

[Longshot85]

PM me with the data - very interested. I like to have a few loads with different powders so I'm not limited when supply is slim. Thanks!

Pm sent

 

[SMTGWKD]

First off - these loads exceed the Hornady published maximum load...therefore all of the standard warnings apply to the information I'm sharing...

Finished my first ladder test using Reloader 17 with results attached - to say I was impressed is a drastic understatement! The brass is organized from lowest charge (top) to highest charge (bottom)...

Desert Tech SRS A1
6.5 Creedmoor
Vortex Razor AMG
ARC 30 MOA Mount
Atlas Bipod

The rest of the load data is included on each target attached, but basics are as follows:

Hornady Brass - once fired
Reloader 17
CCI BR-2
Full length sized
Trimmed to 1.915"
Seated to .020" from lands
Length to Ogive: 2.225"
Overall Length: about 2.858"

I loaded 3 rounds at each powder charge .020" from the lands in increments of .3 grains from 41.0 to 42.2 grains. No pressure signs and velocity trended steadily until the 42.2 grain group when things opened back up. Group #1 was a fouler group as I cleaned the barrel last night.

Group #4 may have looked just like group #2 (literally one hole for 3 shots) had I not pulled the second shot badly when a braked 300 Ultra Mag lit off to my left. I'll likely load up another 5 rounds at that charge to confirm one way or the other.

That said, my goal was 2800 fps with the 143/147 grain projectiles (supersonic to one mile) - the temperature was only 55 degrees - should I just stick with the one hole group at 41.3 knowing that velocity will likely increase with ambient temperature, or push the charge a bit?

All in all, it should be a VERY good performer with any charge between the broad node from 41.3 and 41.9 grains...

 

[Longshot85]

What was velocity for group number 2 and 3 ? I would have a hard time not using those loads

As far as brass pic....nothing looks blatantly obvious but...it is EXTREMELY hard to tell by looking at someone else's pics either posted online or sent via text.......i learned this when seeking the advice of others ....i could not take pictures that fully captured what I was seeing with my eyes in person and I was using a Samsung Note 5 with HD turned on using it's 16mp camera

 

[SMTGWKD]

What was velocity for group number 2 and 3 ? I would have a hard time not using those loads

As far as brass pic....nothing looks blatantly obvious but...it is EXTREMELY hard to tell by looking at someone else's pics either posted online or sent via text.......i learned this when seeking the advice of others ....i could not take pictures that fully captured what I was seeing with my eyes in person and I was using a Samsung Note 5 with HD turned on using it's 16mp camera

Velocity is listed on each target

#2 - 2772/2778/2775
#3 - 2824/2813/2874
#4 - 2867/2861/2846 - as stated on the target, I definitely pulled the second shot. Third shot went through the first shots hole...

 

[65x55guy]

Tough call- #4 has significantly better velocity, but #2 is much lower SD. Unless the 3rd shot on #4 was just a wild fluke.

Maybe load up 10 rounds of #4 and do 2 more 5 shot groups to confirm accuracy and velocity?

 

[SMTGWKD]

i do like my H4350, but its tough to come by and my supply is running out quick. As far as RL16 goes i have no problems running in the same range 2820-2850 with 140s. I started using it about 6 weeks ago, temps havent warmed up yet to test the temp stability.

hornady 140 eldm factory ammo was 2750 in 20 deg temp, 2 weeks later i was in kentucky 70deg temps and i was at 2800 fps. yes same box/lot.

Thought I'd revisit this thread after 300 rounds of RL17. In my experience from 34-85 degrees I've witnessed a similar swing of just over 100fps which makes doping every 5-7 degrees a must to get first round hits at distance. Found great accuracy nodes for 140/143 at 41.3 gr and for 147 at 40.4 but the variation had me burning ammunition getting back on target every trip out - not ideal.

I went looking for some RL16 at my 6 local joints and struck out, but ended up running into an 8lb jug of H4350.

Those of you running H4350 - I would love some input on your accuracy nodes with both 140 and 147 ELD-M. Feel free to PM me values but right now I think my ladder will be 41.5-43.0 for both rounds...

 

[65x55guy]

Shot a 600 yard ladder this weekend in my DTA SRS with 147 ELD-M, 4451, WLR primers, and lake city .308 brass that was converted down to 6.5 CM. Brass weighs 181g empty, and hornady weighs 151g. Hornady holds 54g water and my brass holds 51.7. OAL was 2.866, which is 20 thou off lands. We

Rifle shoots 147 eld-m factory hornady ammo at 3/4 MOA at worst, so I really just wanted to find a similar velocity with my brass and powder of choice.

That being said, I started at the upper end of the range I felt was safe, which was 40g of 4451. Got on target quickly, and started upward in .3g increments. Immediately it was noticeable that the next 2 shots were landing within a vertical 1/2-1" at 600 yards. Fired 3 more and at 41.2 a primer popped, which was surprising. Fired one more at 41.5 and had a primer pop and a heavy bolt lift.

Examined the target up close, and 40 through 41.2 all landed within about 2.5" vertically, which were really quite outstanding in terms of results. I plan to pick the middle at 40.6 and play with the seating depth over time.

I didnt measure velocity, but rough calculations show 3.4-3.5 mils of drop at 600, which would indicate roughly 2750 fps if the stated BC was close to correct.

As always, use my data and experience with caution.

 

[briang7511]

Thought I'd revisit this thread after 300 rounds of RL17. In my experience from 34-85 degrees I've witnessed a similar swing of just over 100fps which makes doping every 5-7 degrees a must to get first round hits at distance. Found great accuracy nodes for 140/143 at 41.3 gr and for 147 at 40.4 but the variation had me burning ammunition getting back on target every trip out - not ideal.

I went looking for some RL16 at my 6 local joints and struck out, but ended up running into an 8lb jug of H4350.

Those of you running H4350 - I would love some input on your accuracy nodes with both 140 and 147 ELD-M. Feel free to PM me values but right now I think my ladder will be 41.5-43.0 for both rounds...

i was at 42.5 of h4350 and a 140 eldm with one lot of powder, 2nd lot was a little hotter had to back down to 42.0 to keep same velocity. using 210m and hornady brass

 

[sig2009]

i do like my H4350, but its tough to come by and my supply is running out quick. As far as RL16 goes i have no problems running in the same range 2820-2850 with 140s. I started using it about 6 weeks ago, temps havent warmed up yet to test the temp stability.

hornady 140 eldm factory ammo was 2750 in 20 deg temp, 2 weeks later i was in kentucky 70deg temps and i was at 2800 fps. yes same box/lot.

My Tikka only gives me 2550fps with the Hornady factory 140gn eldm ammo.

 

[SMTGWKD]

i was at 42.5 of h4350 and a 140 eldm with one lot of powder, 2nd lot was a little hotter had to back down to 42.0 to keep same velocity. using 210m and hornady brass

Thank you sir! Looks like my ladder will be right in the ballpark. What velocity were you hitting at those loads?

 

[briang7511]

Thank you sir! Looks like my ladder will be right in the ballpark. What velocity were you hitting at those loads?

2810-2820.

 

[SMTGWKD]

Thought I'd share a few pics of groups for reference with both RL 17 and H4350 - certainly don't be a bonehead and use these for your own loads. These were shot from a 26" DTA with Omega Silencer attached. The question I have is as follows:

Since I didn't like the temperature swings in the RL17 I bought 8 lbs of H4350 - at first glance it appears that my rifle likes RL17 better for accuracy. Given the target data listed below, which combination would you run with?

RL17 with 143 ELDX

RL17 with 147 ELDM

H4350 with both 140 ELD AND 147 ELD

 

[padom]

Did you do a seating depth test aftering selecting your optimal charge weight with H4350 to shrink group size...?

 

[Rob01]

Yup try the 147 at .020-.030" off the lands.

 

[SMTGWKD]

Yup try the 147 at .020-.030" off the lands.

Sorry - forgot to mention that these were all loaded .020" off the lands. I'm thinking of loading up 41.3 and possibly 41.7 grains with the 147s given the node that seems to be there.

Really appreciate the help!

 

[SMTGWKD]

Did you do a seating depth test aftering selecting your optimal charge weight with H4350 to shrink group size...?

Not yet - I think I'm still at the "optimal charge" phase. All these were loaded to .020" off the lands.

I have loads for RL17 with 140/143/147 that are all sub .3" 5-shot capable, but my first round with H4350 has so many impact shifts relative to point of aim that it has me scratching my head a bit. All my RL17 loads hold a near identical zero between bullet weights (which is convenient).

140s: At first glance I would develop the 41.8 load in .1 invrements up to see if there is a slight increase in accuracy with added speed. Looks to be super consistent with an extreme spread of just 4 fps and the horizontal spread could have been all me.

147s: on this one I thought of loading up in .1 grain increments from 41.0 to 41.4 to see if I can tighten things up as well with a bit more velocity.

Appreciate the insight from separate sets of eyes...

 

[SMTGWKD]

As I'm trying to follow the OCW format of tracking for level spots in extreme spread (granted I'm only using 3-shot groups) here's my dilemma:

140 groups: best group with low ES is at 41.8; however, consistent POI and very low ES appears in the 42.4 and 42.7 targets with the added bonus of an ES of just 10 fps between all 6 rounds fired even thought they are .3 grains apart. I hate to leave the smallest group size, but wouldn't logic dictate that I refine the node between 42.4-42.7?

147 groups: this one is more straightforward as I really think the final load will be in the 40.8-41.3 range. Since I ran in .5 increments this one needs one more round to settle on an answer.

Again - insights are always welcomed and appreciates (especially as I guarantee someone like me will read this some day and think "wow, that's great to know").

 

[padom]

You don't ever look for smallest group size when doing OCW load development. It's the biggest mistake most people make. Pick your OCW then do seating depth testing to shrink the group size. You will find a seating depth that shrinks the group right up.

 

[SMTGWKD]

You don't ever look for smallest group size when doing OCW load development. It's the biggest mistake most people make. Pick your OCW then do seating depth testing to shrink the group size. You will find a seating depth that shrinks the group right up.

Thanks for chiming in - I would be interested to know what your next step would be specifically with the data posted above. Would you run another ladder between charges to find the middle of the plateau first (poi and extreme spread), then choose a load from that data to play with seating depth?

If so, which loads would you begin refining from this data set? Feel free to P.M. me if more convenient...

 

[SMTGWKD]

Did you do a seating depth test aftering selecting your optimal charge weight with H4350 to shrink group size...?

Interesting findings here - i have OAL and Ogive numbers from a few months back when I used my Sinclair gauge to compute. I decided to re-measure the length to my lands using my 2 old methods of:

1. A spent case, wax, and a bullet
2. A bullet with sharpie applied to it all around seated in a formed case (no powder or primer) and pushed back bit by bit until it chambers without disturbing the sharpie ink.

Both methods revealed a MUCH longer COAL than I had been using - Sinclair records show about 2.880 for 140s and 2.887 for 147s while my "old reliable" methods were within 2 thousandths of the following: 140s - 2.915" and 147s - 2.923"

Soooo - I loaded up 140s at 2.895" and 147s at 2.900" and will post the results in my next post when I get the targets processed later today. Groups all appeared to hover between .2-.5" CTC with much better consistency in POI as compared to the others.

In the meantime, doesn't that seem like a REALLY long throat?

 

[padom]

There you go. Always look for groups with similar POI and ignore small groups. Then pick the group in the center of your node and do seating depth testing. I always find a length that shrinks the group right up. Look up Dan Newberry OCW Method for specifics.

that is really long for 6.5cm. Those are 260rem lengths. My 6.5cm in the 2.83-2.85 range. 260rem is 2.88-2.91 range

 

[SMTGWKD]

There you go. Always look for groups with similar POI and ignore small groups. Then pick the group in the center of your node and do seating depth testing. I always find a length that shrinks the group right up. Look up Dan Newberry OCW Method for specifics.

that is really long for 6.5cm. Those are 260rem lengths. My 6.5cm in the 2.83-2.85 range. 260rem is 2.88-2.91 range

Exactly what I thought - although I found a few prior posts that seem to indicate similar length to lands with other 140 VLDs. I had to run the chronograph much closer than I'd like to make sure it was in the shade (2 feet or so from the barrel) to avoid error messages due to direct sunlight. My velocity readings were much less consistent this go around so I'm not sure whether to attribute that to location of the chronograph or my longer loaded bullets. I'll post pics of the targets for the benefit of others, but at this point I think I'll stick with a the FPS numbers I had from my first go around and the groups I have from this go around which appear to be closer to .020" off the lands in my rifle.

 

[SMTGWKD]

I just posted the results in a separate thread entitled "Help Appreciated!!! 6.5 Creedmoor OCW test with 140 & 147 ELD".

Hopefully that will keep this thread in the realm of "best pet loads for the 6.5 Creedmoor and 147 ELD" Thanks to everyone for your insight and help!

 

[rduckwor]

I ran a couple of OCW runs with RL 17 and the ELD-M 140 gr. Best node for me using Hornady brass was 41.7 grains at 85 degrees. 2794 fps, SD of 8.

RMD

 

[Dreamsmith]

Hornady has now posted starting load data for this.

https://press.hornady.com/assets/sit...147gr-data.pdf

 

[CDeiser]

Has anyone tried H4831 with the 147 ELD-M? Given the weight i think a little bit slower powder should help bring velocity up and keep pressure down. RL17 and H4350 might be on the fast side for that 147 ELD. Are the loads with 4350 and 17 compressed or is there room for a slower powder?

 

[lte82]

Tested 147's with Varget in Hornady cases this morning. 28" Krieger 8t / 5r. Over 8 shots, 2712 fps / SD 2.6 with 37.5 gr. I used only one case which definitely helped the SD, but it was interesting that the primer pocket is still plenty tight. I'm sure I'll be losing cases before they give up if I don't bump up the charge weight. I also shot two virgin cases with the same charge weights and ended up with 2711 and 2715 fps, so right in line with the case I fired 8 times. I'll be super surprised if they don't group well at longer ranges.

 

[lte82]

Tried a couple of seating depths, seems like they do better off the lands a little bit. Best 5 shot group was .030 off. Its worth testing at a longer range for sure.

http://i63.tinypic.com/bjh5ba.jpg

 

[ZenBiker990]

My Tikka only gives me 2550fps with the Hornady factory 140gn eldm ammo.

Hornady Factory ELDs are running an average of 100 fps under whatMs on the box. Just shot a box of 140 ELD-M breaking a hand lapped RPR factory barrel, was getting 2610-2640 fps w/1/4 moa @ 100. Reloading is the only way to get the speed. If the 147 is stable @ 2750, probably will be my new favorite.

 

[sig2009]

Tried a couple of seating depths, seems like they do better off the lands a little bit. Best 5 shot group was .030 off. Its worth testing at a longer range for sure.

http://i63.tinypic.com/bjh5ba.jpg

.020 off is my sweet spot.

 

[ZenBiker990]

Has anyone tried H4831 with the 147 ELD-M? Given the weight i think a little bit slower powder should help bring velocity up and keep pressure down. RL17 and H4350 might be on the fast side for that 147 ELD. Are the loads with 4350 and 17 compressed or is there room for a slower powder?

I think you’re right. My 6mm Rem rocks 105 AMax @ 3050 into 1/2 moa all day. Planning in trying it it with the 147s as soon as I get some cases prepped. H4831 is a good one try as well, especially with the new Lapua brass using a small rifle primer. There’s no arguing the results everyone is getting are great; at this point it seems what gives the most consistent velocities and long range accuracy.

 

[Bozz]

Watching and leaning a lot from these posts in particular, thanks to everybody for the detailed information you are posting. Very interested if has anybody got loads for the 147s in the Lapua brass using the CCI 450 small rifle primers with H4350

 

[ZenBiker990]

Thought I'd share a few pics of groups for reference with both RL 17 and H4350 - certainly don't be a bonehead and use these for your own loads. These were shot from a 26" DTA with Omega Silencer attached. The question I have is as follows:

Since I didn't like the temperature swings in the RL17 I bought 8 lbs of H4350 - at first glance it appears that my rifle likes RL17 better for accuracy. Given the target data listed below, which combination would you run with?

RL17 with 143 ELDX

RL17 with 147 ELDM

H4350 with both 140 ELD AND 147 ELD

Happened back across this; can’t view the last set of the 140s & 147s; 143s and RL17 is self explanatory, but it doesn’t look like your rifle likes the 4350 harmonics, and from the velocities, looks like this bullet/powder coating combo is a not ideal, some factor contributing to inconsistenet ignition.

If you really want to use 4350 & 147s, I’d try this old man voodoo: drop a grain, seat the bullet close: .002-.005 off; allows a moment if dwell for a slow powder to build a more consistent pressure curve. If that looks promising, shoot a ladder & see what happens.

 

[CDeiser]

I did a couple of pressure ladders with both H4350 and IMR4955 and the 147ELDM.
Tikka CTR 24" barrel
Prime Brass
BR2
147 ELDM
2.895 oal

4955

40.0- 2461
40.5- 2452
41.0- 2454
41.5- 2514
42.0- 2518
42.5- 2559
43.0- 2594
43.5- 2622
44.0- 2652
44.5- 2717

Still room for more powder at this point and no signs of pressure ill probably take it a little farther to se where pressure starts then do an OCW. The middle of the ladder formed the best group so hopefully stepping up a couple more grains gets into a higher accuracy node.


H4350


40.0- 2535
40.5- 2567
41.0- 2608
41.5- 2645
42.0- 2682
42.5- 2713
43.0- 2730
43.5- 2780

No signs of pressure and the higher end of the ladder went damn near into the same hole so i loaded from 43.1-44.1 in .2 grain charges for an OCW hopefully I can get back out and test soon.