6.5 creedmoor rpr

[sifer0425]

good morning
i've got a rpr 6.5 creedmoor with a IBI 1/8 twist barrel that is 26 inches long. i'm looking at reloading seirra 140bthp, 140 hornady bthp or 140 eld match hornady. had been using superformance powder with the old barrel 24 inch factory, but now have the new barrel. was told h4350 was a good powder or 4831sc was a good powder, but having trouble with the loads for it. would superformance powder be the best of them all, or should i change the powder to something else. at a 100yds, i have no problems but at 400 i'm getting wide spread on paper. with 4350 and 4831sc. but have yet tried using superformance.

 

[Newbie2020]

I don’t think a powder can give good groups at 100 but bad groups at 400.

Are you measuring mv?

Is your powder measuring consistent to the 0.1 gr?

Have you run a seating depth test?

 

[sifer0425]

mv?
yes it is. i hand measure every load. and use a standard scale.
and no i have not. i've been using the hornady app that says to seat to 2.80 which i have been doing for the eld 140 match .
should i press a little lower and try them out at different length with the same load???

 

[Newbie2020]

Mv = muzzle velocity

for any given powder charge, bullet seating depth can be optimized to match muzzle exit timing of the bullet to the barrel harmonics

Here’s a seating depth process recommended by Berger

Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle.

bergerbullets.com

 

[sifer0425]

ok thanks
should i start with a specific load and work from there with h4350 ?

 

[Newbie2020]

If you do make sure to start in the bottom or middle of the safe range.

 

[Carlos Danger]

ok thanks
should i start with a specific load and work from there with h4350 ?

I think you need to spend some time reading and watching some video content on reloading. I suspect you're very green (as I once was), and I'm no expert. Once you have a better handle, you'll be able to make some solid decisions on more aspects of the process. It takes some time.

 

[sifer0425]

i have been loading for a year now and had no problems when i had the old barrel but this is a new one, and i'm starting fresh with it

 

[sifer0425]

just ordered a modified case and gauge. hope to have them next week.

 

[jbuck88]

If I plug the Extreme Spread from my factory ammo. It's a 3.4" difference at 400yds. The ES won't show at 100rds, but will at 400yds.

Edit: a chronograph helps when reloading. I just worked up a load for my kids RPR. I am leaving some fps on the table, but I had a bunch of Varget and not so much H4350. I'm running 2747fps with a SD of 3.8 with 130gr RDF's while using Varget.

 

[MCHOG]

There is so much going on with your question, I don't know where to start. I agree that you should spend a lot of time researching the reloading and load development process. The easy button is to look up Erik Cortina on Youtube and watch his videos on reloading. And take notes. You don't have to go to his level of precision, but the basic fundamentals of reloading and load development are solid.

A chronograph isn't absolutely necessary. But it will greatly simply for your process and save you a lot of time and money. I would suggest a MagnetoSpeed or LabRadar. You can read about the pros and cons of both.

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to blame your load or bullets. If you can find some, get a couple boxes of factory-loaded match ammo and see how you do.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

good morning
i've got a rpr 6.5 creedmoor with a IBI 1/8 twist barrel that is 26 inches long. i'm looking at reloading seirra 140bthp, 140 hornady bthp or 140 eld match hornady. had been using superformance powder with the old barrel 24 inch factory, but now have the new barrel. was told h4350 was a good powder or 4831sc was a good powder, but having trouble with the loads for it. would superformance powder be the best of them all, or should i change the powder to something else. at a 100yds, i have no problems but at 400 i'm getting wide spread on paper. with 4350 and 4831sc. but have yet tried using superformance.

Nice gun. I'm just about to upgrade my stock barrel to a 26" IBI and will probably go heavy contour (I'm assuming yours in heavy?). I like the fluting too.

You dont mention what load development you did. I usually load 3 rounds from the low end if the spectrum in my chosen reloading manual and go up in 0.3gr jumps. For jump I usually start at 0.010" and then play around with it when I find the sweet spot for powder. H4350 has worked best for me.

My stock barrel LOVED Hornady 140gr BTHPs, they worked awesome and were fairly inexpensive. I couldn't find any more when the batch of 1000 I bought finally ran out so I moved to ELD-Ms and also picked up some Lapua 139gr.

 

[Newbie2020]

I’ve moved to Berger 130 gr VLDs. More speed w less powder. Soft recoil too.

 

[sifer0425]

my stock barrel liked 140 eld and bthp seirra 140 was using superformance with it . doing 2650 2700 off the muzzle. but now not so good with same rounds and 4350 or 4831sc powder

 

[sifer0425]

Nice gun. I'm just about to upgrade my stock barrel to a 26" IBI and will probably go heavy contour (I'm assuming yours in heavy?). I like the fluting too.

You dont mention what load development you did. I usually load 3 rounds from the low end if the spectrum in my chosen reloading manual and go up in 0.3gr jumps. For jump I usually start at 0.010" and then play around with it when I find the sweet spot for powder. H4350 has worked best for me.

My stock barrel LOVED Hornady 140gr BTHPs, they worked awesome and were fairly inexpensive. I couldn't find any more when the batch of 1000 I bought finally ran out so I moved to ELD-Ms and also picked up some Lapua 139gr.

when you say jump .010 what do you mean? are you talking the load amount of powder or the seating depth?

 

[sifer0425]

Nice gun. I'm just about to upgrade my stock barrel to a 26" IBI and will probably go heavy contour (I'm assuming yours in heavy?). I like the fluting too.

You dont mention what load development you did. I usually load 3 rounds from the low end if the spectrum in my chosen reloading manual and go up in 0.3gr jumps. For jump I usually start at 0.010" and then play around with it when I find the sweet spot for powder. H4350 has worked best for me.

My stock barrel LOVED Hornady 140gr BTHPs, they worked awesome and were fairly inexpensive. I couldn't find any more when the batch of 1000 I bought finally ran out so I moved to ELD-Ms and also picked up some Lapua 139gr.

.010" is that from the lands after you measure where the bullet touches???

 

[Newbie2020]

Seating depth

 

[sifer0425]

so if my seating length was 2.810 and i do .010 than 2.80 correct?

 

[huntnh]

Iv always had good luck with 41.5 h4350 and 140 grain eldms

 

[sifer0425]

so just used my modified case gauge on the rifle. this is what i got
hornady 140eld match round- 2.8420
hornady 140 bthp round - 2.822
sierra 140gr bthp round -2.7480

so if i do this right, i use the 140eld go from 2.8420 and minus .010 2.8320 and start working loads with h4350. will start at 39.6gr and go up from there doing 3 shot groups.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

.010" is that from the lands after you measure where the bullet touches???

Correct

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

so just used my modified case gauge on the rifle. this is what i got
hornady 140eld match round- 2.8420
hornady 140 bthp round - 2.822
sierra 140gr bthp round -2.7480

so if i do this right, i use the 140eld go from 2.8420 and minus .010 2.8320 and start working loads with h4350. will start at 39.6gr and go up from there doing 3 shot groups.

Thats what worked for me. When you find the sweet spot for powder you can play with seating depth some more.

 

[SicVic]

Use caution when using others opinions when it comes to max oal.
Not that anyone is out to give bad information but rather that the information can be tainted by the way each person performs the measuring task.
Some jam the lands and some barely touch the lands and that's what they call max.
If you're jaming the lands where the bullet comes out scored than I'd recommend starting out with a jump of near .040".
Reason is, inconsistency that's unavoidable during the Reloading process could case your velocities to wander all over causing you to chase your tail.
Give yourself some wiggle room until you learn the chamber of that sweet new Barrel.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

H4350 is the gold standard for 6.5 CM.

 

[sifer0425]

Use caution when using others opinions when it comes to max oal.
Not that anyone is out to give bad information but rather that the information can be tainted by the way each person performs the measuring task.
Some jam the lands and some barely touch the lands and that's what they call max.
If you're jaming the lands where the bullet comes out scored than I'd recommend starting out with a jump of near .040".
Reason is, inconsistency that's unavoidable during the Reloading process could case your velocities to wander all over causing you to chase your tail.
Give yourself some wiggle room until you learn the chamber of that sweet new Barrel.

good to know. also i was told by the barrel maker from IBI that they usually start with .010

 

[sifer0425]

seated the rounds to 2.830 minus .010 from the lands and now loaded 10 rounds each from 40.5 to 41.0 and will do a ladder test at 100yards and then 400 yards to see how they work

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

seated the rounds to 2.830 minus .010 from the lands and now loaded 10 rounds each from 40.5 to 41.0 and will do a ladder test at 100yards and then 400 yards to see how they work

I used to do 100 but I found the gun was so accurate it was hard to spot a good load so I switched to 200.

 

[SicVic]

Use caution when using others opinions when it comes to max oal.
Not that anyone is out to give bad information but rather that the information can be tainted by the way each person performs the measuring task.
Some jam the lands and some barely touch the lands and that's what they call max.
If you're jaming the lands where the bullet comes out scored than I'd recommend starting out with a jump of near .040".
Reason is, inconsistency that's unavoidable during the Reloading process could case your velocities to wander all over causing you to chase your tail.
Give yourself some wiggle room until you learn the chamber of that sweet new Barrel

seated the rounds to 2.830 minus .010 from the lands and now loaded 10 rounds each from 40.5 to 41.0 and will do a ladder test at 100yards and then 400 yards to see how they work

Run em over the Chronograph and let us know the results.
If no chrono at least let us know how the groups turned out.
Stoked!

 

[sifer0425]

very lightly pushed the bullets into the lands and checked to make sure there was no scoring on them. checked and rechecked the length 4 times before i came to roughly the same number. then minused .010 to come up with 2.830 the original number was 2.843 but thought it best to try 2.830 . then loaded 10 rounds each from 40.5 to 40.6 to 40.7 to 40.8 to 40.9 to 41.0 no further than that. my reloading manual says 41.5 is the max so staying below that number. will do 5 rounds each at 100 yards. then will do the other 5rounds each at 400yards. will post pictures of the hits tomorrow i dont have a chrono in yet so have to do it this way

 

[sifer0425]

one thing though i was at 6.5 moa up on my scope before i changed barrels from the factory 24inch rpr barrel now i'am up to 7.25 mao up on the new ibi barrel which is a 26inch barrel

 

[sifer0425]

first image is 5 load group from 40.5 40.6 40.7 not bad a little low at 200yards.
second image is 5 load groups from 40.8 40.9 and 41grains on the nose.all 3 seemed to work well.
the last image is of the 40.8 40.9 and 41 grains at 400 yards the top 4 were to high on my scope settings but after a slight 1/4 moa down 40.9 and 41 grains seemed to work best with h4350 with the 140grain eld match ball at a seating length of 2.830 on the nose. what do you guys think??

 

[sifer0425]

1

 

[SicVic]

I'll start by saying that I enjoy reading your postings.
It really reflects how jazzed you are about the process. Rad!
We each have our own goals and what we want to achieve.
The information we viewers share may or may not fit into what you're trying to accomplish.
You can sort it from there.

Ok, so for the pictures you posted...
Job one is max O.A.L. Did that.
Two, load development.
From this step everything you do should be to gather information for which you can better the accuracy of the load in question.
What definitive intelligence did you gain from those rounds you shot?
Your POI changed but that's not helpful unless you're inputting data into your ballistics calculator.
You had no apparent overpressure signs. That's good.
The downer is that you really didn't get anything solid as to what to develop next.
The best I can tell is that overall your groups are good for the distance and you may be completely happy with your 41.0 grain @ +.010" jump.

To keep this short.
Focus your tests.
Am I working on Charge or Jump?
Am I developing at a distance where environmental factors or my Marksmanship is giving flawed results?

During development you can waste a lot of ammo and time by blanketing rather than bracketing.
Set your goal then develop accordingly.

I'll be watching to see what your next move is.

Inspired by your post I took an undeveloped load out this morning.
Two 3 round strings fired.
H4350 40.5 gr
One @ +.020" the other@ +.040".
Velo at 2707 and 2708
From here I would just correct the POI in my calculator and adjust the Drag at distance and be off safely and accurately shooting in 6 rounds.
Photo of the results.

Keep having fun!!

 

[sifer0425]

I'll start by saying that I enjoy reading your postings.
It really reflects how jazzed you are about the process. Rad!
We each have our own goals and what we want to achieve.
The information we viewers share may or may not fit into what you're trying to accomplish.
You can sort it from there.

Ok, so for the pictures you posted...
Job one is max O.A.L. Did that.
Two, load development.
From this step everything you do should be to gather information for which you can better the accuracy of the load in question.
What definitive intelligence did you gain from those rounds you shot?
Your POI changed but that's not helpful unless you're inputting data into your ballistics calculator.
You had no apparent overpressure signs. That's good.
The downer is that you really didn't get anything solid as to what to develop next.
The best I can tell is that overall your groups are good for the distance and you may be completely happy with your 41.0 grain @ +.010" jump.

To keep this short.
Focus your tests.
Am I working on Charge or Jump?
Am I developing at a distance where environmental factors or my Marksmanship is giving flawed results?

During development you can waste a lot of ammo and time by blanketing rather than bracketing.
Set your goal then develop accordingly.

I'll be watching to see what your next move is.

Inspired by your post I took an undeveloped load out this morning.
Two 3 round strings fired.
H4350 40.5 gr
One @ +.020" the other@ +.040".
Velo at 2707 and 2708
From here I would just correct the POI in my calculator and adjust the Drag at distance and be off safely and accurately shooting in 6 rounds.
Photo of the results.

Keep having fun!!

what distance was that at?

 

[sifer0425]

the one thing i am still working on is keeping steady. i was a left handed shooter before, but have torn my left shoulder which affects my left hand and shoulder to the point that i cant hold a rifle left handed anymore. have been working now since last summer to shoot from my right eye and right side. i seem to wobble a bit when shooting but i am trying to stay on target as much as possible

 

[SicVic]

what distance was that at?

This was my 100 yard zeroing range.
The tighter group is .2445 MOA.
I only posted the picture to show the difference of what .020" difference jump can make.

 

[SicVic]

the one thing i am still working on is keeping steady. i was a left handed shooter before, but have torn my left shoulder which affects my left hand and shoulder to the point that i cant hold a rifle left handed anymore. have been working now since last summer to shoot from my right eye and right side. i seem to wobble a bit when shooting but i am trying to stay on target as much as possible

I should clarify here.
I hope that I didn't insinuate that your Marksmanship was lacking.
Not what I was saying at all.
I was just noting that during load development you don't really want to shoot farther than you can easily manage group size.
One forum user posted that 100 yards was to close and they couldn't see the changes required to make a sound assessment on what developmental progress they were making.
100 yards works well for me, plus I can just run the information into my Calculator when I'm done.
I enjoy the development process.
It's challenging to see what you can make work.
We all wobble when we shoot. Managing when to rip the bang switch is the key to success. Lol
Good times!

 

[SicVic]

I read back and didn't see anything about this and I wanted to ask you about it.
During development with the new Barrel; are you or did you take notes as to the Headspace..??
Are you using new unformed Brass or stuff already fired otta that old Barrel?
This is great information to gather during these first developmental firings.

How much did your headspace numbers change from barrel to barrel?
My last swap went from 1.5495 to 1.5525. Those are .0015" setback.
That's measured using the Hornady HS Comparator #C375...

 

[CNC-Dude]

so if my seating length was 2.810 and i do .010 than 2.80 correct?

Both of my RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor have a COAL of 2.810" which gives me .035" jump which they both like. I use Superformance and 147g ELD-M and get low to mid .4 MOA's at 1000 yards pretty consistently. I have had a few high .3 MOA's at that distance too. My velocities are around 125 FPS faster than the factory Hornady 147g ELD's which are 2690 FPS. My speed differential rarely exceeds 2-6 fps.

 

[SicVic]

Both of my RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor have a COAL of 2.810" which gives me .035" jump which they both like. I use Superformance and 147g ELD-M and get low to mid .4 MOA's at 1000 yards pretty consistently. I have had a few high .3 MOA's at that distance too. My velocities are around 125 FPS faster than the factory Hornady 147g ELD's which are 2690 FPS. My speed differential rarely exceeds 2-6 fps.

This made me walk up and check my last 100 firings on my Chrono.
I have NEVER had a 5 round group not exceed 2-6 fps.
The best was 8 fps at a 3.2 SD.

Rarely breaking outside of 2 SD is impressive Sir.

 

[sifer0425]

I should clarify here.
I hope that I didn't insinuate that your Marksmanship was lacking.
Not what I was saying at all.
I was just noting that during load development you don't really want to shoot farther than you can easily manage group size.
One forum user posted that 100 yards was to close and they couldn't see the changes required to make a sound assessment on what developmental progress they were making.
100 yards works well for me, plus I can just run the information into my Calculator when I'm done.
I enjoy the development process.
It's challenging to see what you can make work.
We all wobble when we shoot. Managing when to rip the bang switch is the key to success. Lol
Good times!

the first 2 target pictures are at 200yards. the last one was at 400yards. to clarify that

 

[sifer0425]

I read back and didn't see anything about this and I wanted to ask you about it.
During development with the new Barrel; are you or did you take notes as to the Headspace..??
Are you using new unformed Brass or stuff already fired otta that old Barrel?
This is great information to gather during these first developmental firings.

How much did your headspace numbers change from barrel to barrel?
My last swap went from 1.5495 to 1.5525. Those are .0015" setback.
That's measured using the Hornady HS Comparator #C375...

yes i took notes and have them written down as to all the different rounds touching the lands.
i have been using brass that was used out of my old barrel. they have been holding up really good.
my old factory barrel i was using the overall length from the books. i believe it was 2.810 with a 140gr eld match ball. and was using superformance powder for that.
and no i dont have a comparator, really hard to find one around here

 

[sifer0425]

This made me walk up and check my last 100 firings on my Chrono.
I have NEVER had a 5 round group not exceed 2-6 fps.
The best was 8 fps at a 3.2 SD.

Rarely breaking outside of 2 SD is impressive Sir.

are you using a factory barrel now or a IBI barrel?

 

[SicVic]

Y

the first 2 target pictures are at 200yards. the last one was at 400yards. to clarify that

Yup, I did see those distances in ur post.

 

[SicVic]

yes i took notes and have them written down as to all the different rounds touching the lands.
i have been using brass that was used out of my old barrel. they have been holding up really good.
my old factory barrel i was using the overall length from the books. i believe it was 2.810 with a 140gr eld match ball. and was using superformance powder for that.
and no i dont have a comparator, really hard to find one around here

Here I was asking about the change in the Headspace.

 

[SicVic]

yes i took notes and have them written down as to all the different rounds touching the lands.
i have been using brass that was used out of my old barrel. they have been holding up really good.
my old factory barrel i was using the overall length from the books. i believe it was 2.810 with a 140gr eld match ball. and was using superformance powder for that.
and no i dont have a comparator, really hard to find one around here

Here I was asking about the change in the Headspace

are you using a factory barrel now or a IBI barrel?

The current Barrel is a 26" Criterion.

 

[SicVic]

This morning I thought I would follow up on that picture I added earlier in the post.
As I said; that was the developmental load fired at 100 yards with scope turrets set to zero. 2 groups 3 rounds each.
From that I measured the mean offset of windage and elevation and inducted that into my BC.
I loaded 5 more rounds to shoot this morning.
Shooting today at 415 yards I fired 1 at 8" steel to get my axial form factor. (Drag adjustment)
After that correction and a finalization of the environmental factors I fired 4 rounds again at 415 yards in comparison to the distance you used in your jump testing.
The group size of those 4 rounds was .7990" or .1838 MOA at distance.
I split one of the cards and creased another.
In all, 11 rounds fired throughout developmental progress.
I'm not a shoot for group size guy. More of a 1st shot probability shooter.

As I said, this was inspired by following along with your post.
Best of luck and success with the new Barrel.
6.5 Shooter

 

[sifer0425]

new load day today to shoot tomorrow. still going to use 40.8, 40.9 and 41 grains of h4350 but will press each one to 2.820 and see what that does. if it works better than 2.830 than will stay with that if not. will go back to 2.830 and go from there.
after that will start trying out some 140gr bthp hornady rounds and load them the same ways and start again. i have more of them than the eld match rounds so would like to see how they work on the barrel next.

 

[308pirate]

so just used my modified case gauge on the rifle. this is what i got
hornady 140eld match round- 2.8420
hornady 140 bthp round - 2.822
sierra 140gr bthp round -2.7480

so if i do this right, i use the 140eld go from 2.8420 and minus .010 2.8320 and start working loads with h4350. will start at 39.6gr and go up from there doing 3 shot groups.

You need to get a tool that measures cartridge length from the base of the case to the bullet's ogive. The base to tip measurement is not very useful because the tip is not the most consistent feature of a bullet and because the tip isn't what touches the lands first. The ogive is.

You've been reloading for a year but you have some significant knowledge gaps.

 

[sifer0425]

Both of my RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor have a COAL of 2.810" which gives me .035" jump which they both like. I use Superformance and 147g ELD-M and get low to mid .4 MOA's at 1000 yards pretty consistently. I have had a few high .3 MOA's at that distance too. My velocities are around 125 FPS faster than the factory Hornady 147g ELD's which are 2690 FPS. My speed differential rarely exceeds 2-6 fps.

i'am looking at superformance with a 140bthp seated at 2.820 with 44gr 10 load down to 39.7gr 10 load and test them tomorrow if i have to i'll cut it back more to 2650 from around 2700 max. and see what happens. i'am running low on 140gr eld match rounds and h4350 powder. but have lots of superformance which worked nice in the old barrel but with the new ibi and a 26inch barrel we will have to see tomorrow