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6.5 creedmoor vs. .308 win for beginners
- Thread starter Macton18
- Start date
Either one will serve you fine. Someone with much more experience on the Internet will tell you differently. There is something to be said for the 6.5 being "easier". Work on the fundamentals and that will serve you the best and you'll be able to shoot either just as easily. Sometime it comes down to what gun is in stock that you like.
Thank you for the reply. Please tell me if I’m thinking of things wrong but if 6.5 is “easier” then would it be more beneficial for someone to start with .308? That way i will learn to read the wind since it doesn’t buck the wind as good?
If you are just starting out and have nothing & are buying, I'd suggest going with the 6.5 Creedmoor.
It is a really popular caliber these days & will be easy to find good match ammo for as well as easy to shoot accurately with less wind issues.
If you already have a .308 there is nothing wrong with using that to start with & go from there, or stay there.
.308 will make you work a bit harder on your wind calls.
It is a really popular caliber these days & will be easy to find good match ammo for as well as easy to shoot accurately with less wind issues.
If you already have a .308 there is nothing wrong with using that to start with & go from there, or stay there.
.308 will make you work a bit harder on your wind calls.
You’ll still learn wind. 6.5 isn’t some magic round. It requires less wind hold which will translate into more hits which will translate into more shooting and less frustration. Someone will come along and agree with you, no doubt. Regardless you will learn wind eventually, just one way might be more fun along the way.
While shooting a .308 will teach you more about the wind and also about ballistic curves in detail, if you have nothing for .308 and plan to do mostly target practice, shooting competitions, hunting etc, I'd say save your money and get a 6.5 as that will do most things a .308 will do, but easier with less work on your part, also once you start going to competitions, you'll already have a competitive platform that a lot of others are using.
Nothing wrong with a .243 if you find a good deal on one either, but price to price, I'd say get the 6.5
Nothing wrong with a .243 if you find a good deal on one either, but price to price, I'd say get the 6.5
Mackton18, I was in the same delema you are in. I’ve been shooting since I was 8, that was 1969, but I know nothing about long range shooting, doping, and ballistics. I was thinking about a .308, but then started reading more about the 6.5 Creedmoor and finally decided that’s what I’m going with. It just seemed like a no brainer. I decided to go with the John Hancock. I think I made the right decision. Can’t wait for April.
yep, start with 6.5 creed. lots of factory ammo choices, reasonably priced. and ton't worry, it's not so good that you can disregard the wind.
I started out in 6.5, now I have both. I like them both but give a decisive advantage to the Creedmoor. The lower recoil allows me to spot hits/misses more easily. Guys shooting the 6mm cartridges say it is even easier.
I started out with a 20" .308 because it was cheaper than any 6.5 I could afford at the time and while it was great to shoot out to 500 yards, when I started shooting out to 1400+, I quickly found myself wishing for a 24-26" 6.5 variant. That want was primarily for the difference in velocity, but the further reduced drop/drift that would come with that velocity (versus a 20" 6.5 or 24" .308) was very appealing as well. I'm a firm believer in "buy once cry once", and one of the best times to take that advice, I failed to, and it ended up being more expensive in the end.
What? Not a single 308 die hard?
I kinda miss the days of everyone on this site recommending the 308 over 6.5's since it has more wind drift to help a new shooter read the wind, but in the very same breath, hypocritically, telling that new shooter they should run the highest BC 308 bullet at the very fastest muzzle velocity possibly to cheat the wind as much as possible.
I mean if we're using logic... Since the 308 is better for a new shooter because it had more wind drift, logic would follow that the lowest BC bullet is also the best for a new shooter as it also has more wind drift, but oh brother did the 308 fanboys get fired up when you would recommend using low BC bullets.
The responses to my suggestion of low BC bullets were always good for a few laughs...
I kinda miss the days of everyone on this site recommending the 308 over 6.5's since it has more wind drift to help a new shooter read the wind, but in the very same breath, hypocritically, telling that new shooter they should run the highest BC 308 bullet at the very fastest muzzle velocity possibly to cheat the wind as much as possible.
I mean if we're using logic... Since the 308 is better for a new shooter because it had more wind drift, logic would follow that the lowest BC bullet is also the best for a new shooter as it also has more wind drift, but oh brother did the 308 fanboys get fired up when you would recommend using low BC bullets.
The responses to my suggestion of low BC bullets were always good for a few laughs...
Logically speaking there is little room to vouch for a 308. That said, I’m a fan because of the versatility of the cartridge if you reload. I can load anything from 110 to 240 grains for different purposes.
Can use a nice 178 ELD-X for hunting/long range steel, to a 110 Sierra with minimal powder for a VERY low recoil round to train new shooter, to load a 230 grain cast bullet at subsonic velocities to train quietly and with less expense than a FGMM 22 lr match round.
Thats why I choose a 308. If I were just using ONE load, I’d definitely pick a 6.5 CM.
Can use a nice 178 ELD-X for hunting/long range steel, to a 110 Sierra with minimal powder for a VERY low recoil round to train new shooter, to load a 230 grain cast bullet at subsonic velocities to train quietly and with less expense than a FGMM 22 lr match round.
Thats why I choose a 308. If I were just using ONE load, I’d definitely pick a 6.5 CM.
If no other considerations and given the choice between 308 or 6.5 creed getting the 308 will only be an immediate handicap. 6.5 still gets blown around, it’s not immune to physics. It’s just better.
Started with an AI in 308. Shot it in F class but never a prs style match just range shooting at a fast pace with some locals. Sold it and left the game for 3 years.
I'm about to have 2 6.5 creedmoors, tikka with bartlein in an xray and a hancock when they're done. Gonna rechamber the tikka for a 6mm "for the girlfriend" when the hancock comes. Probably won't own a 308 for a while if ever again. The whole nostalgia or whatever doesn't mean anything to me. It doesn't offer an advantage for hunting or general shooting or precision so I don't see the reason to get one
I'm about to have 2 6.5 creedmoors, tikka with bartlein in an xray and a hancock when they're done. Gonna rechamber the tikka for a 6mm "for the girlfriend" when the hancock comes. Probably won't own a 308 for a while if ever again. The whole nostalgia or whatever doesn't mean anything to me. It doesn't offer an advantage for hunting or general shooting or precision so I don't see the reason to get one
I'd say 308 because EVERYONE is on the 6.5 kick and it makes the 308 cheaper from the start. Some very nice 308's are being looked over because of this "fad". Sometimes the chunky nerdy girl gets the job done nicely.
Pick one and start shooting. There is lots more to it than wind calls and BC factors.
Just cause the chunky nerd gets it done doesn't mean you can't have the prom queen
I shot 125,000 rounds of 308 at MARS through both bolt and gas guns.
I Know the 2156 Sierra Palma and the 175 SMK better than I know the veins on my dick.
Get a 6.5 CM. It’s better in every way.
I Know the 2156 Sierra Palma and the 175 SMK better than I know the veins on my dick.
Get a 6.5 CM. It’s better in every way.
Nostalgic old guy here and I was a true .308 snob for a long, long time. There is nothing wrong with a .308, nothing at all. There are just better options now than ever before. The 6.5 CM is one of them as is the 6CM. Both are available reasonably priced and dollar for dollar are great calibers to do anything from hunting White Tails to taking on the 1000m range. Get what tickles your fancy and learn the craft, Good luck to you.
Damnit. I thought all the 6.5 is a “fad” people made their way to Facebook.
Seriously though. Coming from someone that loves my custom 308 gun. I have a Stock 6.5 RPR (other than grip and stock) and I feel like a kid again. Go 6.5.
Being also a believer of. buy once cry once I got both 308 and 6.5 cm on two gas guns quite similar one to the other (20” 308 and 18” 6.5) I shoot them both and if I have time even the same day. The 308 at shorther distances 300-500y will help in your fundamentals (position, breathing, finger, more recoil...) then when you go with the 6.5 which is stupidly accurate you will enjoy going one step beyond each time. Handloading is a significant part of the fun tho. My two cents. Happy shooting.
also what is your buget because a 308 has about 3 times the barrel life of a 6.5 cm replacing barrels every year can add up I know I shoot nothing but 300wm.
Montrose
Montrose
The chunky nerdy girl grows up to be a hottie sometimes...that's 6.5 now; whereas, .308 is the old high school queen whose looks have long faded.
The 6.5 is just all around a pleasure to shoot and is very versatile as well. I'd put an edge to the 6.5 if it was me. The 6 cm is a bad round as well.
I went 308, 6.5 then 6 Creedmoor but never sold the 308. I learned a lot and shot at half a dozen classes and a few matches with the 308. It made me build a solid foundation and understand the wind effects.
Most students and competitors were using 6.5 and 6 cartridges so I was not the top of the class or top finishers but I was competitive at my level and learning, that’s the key.
Once I made the purchase of a 6.5 Creedmoor the matches were less stressful and I scored better over all but I became lazy and started to use the 6.5 as a crutch.
That’s why I kept the 308 as a training tool to get me back on track with my shooting techniques and back to the basics.
Once the barrel was shot out I cave’d and went 6 Creed. lol man was I impressed once the load was developed. Barrel is broken in, load developed and ready for 2018.
Moral of the story is get a 308 to go back to for your skill set. Buy a flat shooting (cheater) to compete with and have fun.
Most students and competitors were using 6.5 and 6 cartridges so I was not the top of the class or top finishers but I was competitive at my level and learning, that’s the key.
Once I made the purchase of a 6.5 Creedmoor the matches were less stressful and I scored better over all but I became lazy and started to use the 6.5 as a crutch.
That’s why I kept the 308 as a training tool to get me back on track with my shooting techniques and back to the basics.
Once the barrel was shot out I cave’d and went 6 Creed. lol man was I impressed once the load was developed. Barrel is broken in, load developed and ready for 2018.
Moral of the story is get a 308 to go back to for your skill set. Buy a flat shooting (cheater) to compete with and have fun.
If money is a factor, you can get a mildly used .308 bolt-action rifle for a good price; the gun market is flooded with mildly used .308 rifles that trend-following gun owners have sold. Spend less money on buying the actual rifle and more money on target practice.
If money isn't a factor, get either one. .308 requires more wind and elevation adjustment compared to 6.5 cm, but it's still a very accurate cartridge within 1000 yards. 6.5cm has a much lighter recoil. The ballistic advantages of 6.5 cm really only become relevant when you get into high-level competition (PRS). If you're new to long range shooting, you've got a lot of work and training to go through before you get to that point. The ability of a new shooter to hit a 700 yard target has less to do with the choice of cartridge (comparing 6.5 cm to .308) and more to do with ammo selection, platform build quality, and shooter proficiency.
If you're looking for an all-around, utilitarian round (ie capable of hunting big game and plinking steel), I think .308 has an advantage over 6.5 cm, though the 6.5 cm is capable of taking certain game given the appropriate ammunition.
If money isn't a factor, get either one. .308 requires more wind and elevation adjustment compared to 6.5 cm, but it's still a very accurate cartridge within 1000 yards. 6.5cm has a much lighter recoil. The ballistic advantages of 6.5 cm really only become relevant when you get into high-level competition (PRS). If you're new to long range shooting, you've got a lot of work and training to go through before you get to that point. The ability of a new shooter to hit a 700 yard target has less to do with the choice of cartridge (comparing 6.5 cm to .308) and more to do with ammo selection, platform build quality, and shooter proficiency.
If you're looking for an all-around, utilitarian round (ie capable of hunting big game and plinking steel), I think .308 has an advantage over 6.5 cm, though the 6.5 cm is capable of taking certain game given the appropriate ammunition.
Agree 100%
Either are good options and both have good factory match ammo. But having started with a 308 and moved to the 6.5 later, I would probably recommend just starting with a 6.5 to begin with. Neither is a bad option though.
The 6.5 bullets will go farther, and are competitive beyond 1,000 yds. 6.5 hunting bullets deliver more energy at longer range than .308. Whichever one you get, make sure the chamber reamer does not make the throat excessively long. You would like to be able to get the 120 gr target bullets to the lands, and maybe even the lighter ones, like Speer TNT. One way to extend barrel life is to shoot light bullets at moderate velocity, if you're only shooting 300 yds. or so. 8 twist or faster, but 8 is standard. 8.5 will suffice. Don't pass up a .260 Remington if a good one comes up. Reformed .260 Rem made from Lake City cases has exactly the same case capacity as factory Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor brass. However, same issue with reamers. You can always lengthen the throat if it's too short (when was the last time anybody saw that?). Excess throat length requires the barrel to be taken off and set back by a gunsmith, then reamed with a different reamer. Not a really big deal, but best to avoid needing it done in the first place. BTW, I am one of those .308 Win guys they say they're waiting for a response from. I shot .308 competitively for 40 years, from 200 to 1,000 yds. My answer: 6.5.
I was also in the same spot a few years age. Purchased a AIAT 20" 308. Spent a year shooting 308 and attend my first school with the 308. Learned a lot shooting the 308. Last year picked up a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel and attended another school shooting out 700 yards. It was a lot easier to make the 700 yards hits especially in the wind. This year I hope to go out to 1300 yards, with trying a few local matches and next year a little longer distance. I will always keep the 308 barrel. As everyone else has said they both have their merits. The 6.5 is just easier at the distance.
starting out shooting 308 no brainer.
we cut our teeth on it either in the service or by buying our own.
there are volumes of books written on load development and such that arent just inter web crap.
factory match ammo is better than you can handload, made by several large companies not smaller job shops that might vanish.
and using factory match175gr sierra will get you to 1000 and hit iron maidens with regularity.
plus the barrel life has 1000's of rounds more life.
you can shoot 100 rounds per week every week for almost 2 years and the barrel will still shoot.
i have a AI in 308 that has over 7000 rounds through it and still groups under a inch at 100 and hits 17 x 11" maidens at 1000. factory ammo not handloaded stuff.
6.5 is a great round no doubt but not my choice to start.
some will say that it shoots "inside" the 308 which is true, but if thats the case then you will be chasing the best performing round not learning the craft.
shooting a 308 and then going to a better performing round is like a vacation, going from a laser to a mortar when you think you have it figured out is a disaster. seen it several times.
if not stuck with those 2, get a 223. almost free to shoot ammo price wise and you can find bolt guns and semi auto AR's, you can switch platforms if you want in the future and not have to learn the ballistics from scratch or buy new/different ammo.
a 22" bushmaster or dpms with a bull barrel will shoot under 1" with match ammo with your eyes closed. that accuracy is good enough for learning exterior ballistics. and a 223 will get you 700 easy.
grab a shorty upper for few hundred bucks and go play with surplus ammo when you want.
we cut our teeth on it either in the service or by buying our own.
there are volumes of books written on load development and such that arent just inter web crap.
factory match ammo is better than you can handload, made by several large companies not smaller job shops that might vanish.
and using factory match175gr sierra will get you to 1000 and hit iron maidens with regularity.
plus the barrel life has 1000's of rounds more life.
you can shoot 100 rounds per week every week for almost 2 years and the barrel will still shoot.
i have a AI in 308 that has over 7000 rounds through it and still groups under a inch at 100 and hits 17 x 11" maidens at 1000. factory ammo not handloaded stuff.
6.5 is a great round no doubt but not my choice to start.
some will say that it shoots "inside" the 308 which is true, but if thats the case then you will be chasing the best performing round not learning the craft.
shooting a 308 and then going to a better performing round is like a vacation, going from a laser to a mortar when you think you have it figured out is a disaster. seen it several times.
if not stuck with those 2, get a 223. almost free to shoot ammo price wise and you can find bolt guns and semi auto AR's, you can switch platforms if you want in the future and not have to learn the ballistics from scratch or buy new/different ammo.
a 22" bushmaster or dpms with a bull barrel will shoot under 1" with match ammo with your eyes closed. that accuracy is good enough for learning exterior ballistics. and a 223 will get you 700 easy.
grab a shorty upper for few hundred bucks and go play with surplus ammo when you want.
I would consider thinking twice before going to something like a 223 for a long range trainer. My Tikka Varmint 223 didn't have an accuracy node with any decent velocity and would only get to 600 yards before going unstable (shooting 75 grain match Hornady pills at about 2,700 fps). Hard to learn a whole lot about wind shooting at 600 yards max. I sold it and bought my 6.5 and haven't looked back once. Way, way more fun.
Every cal is different and will require practice to learn it. Just because i shoot a 308 well to 1000 doesnt mean i can hop on a 6.5 or 6mm and dope the wind well. Its going to require different holds. Pick one and shoot the hell out of it. If its a windy day then even more reason to shoot.
The energy advantage of 6.5cm at longer ranges is marginal at best (at least within the 1000 yards range). Neither cartridge is well suited to taking big game at longer distances. The difference with .308 is that it can be loaded heavy for taking down bigger game at close/intermediate ranges.
Thank you for the reply. I have a .308 and a .223 trainer so I think I’m going to stick with that with your advice. I was going to trade my .308 for a 6.5 CM but I think I’m not going to and shoot the he’ll out of the .308 win. I appreciate everyone’s input into this. Thank you again
If you have a 308 now when you shoot the barrel out you can always go to 6.5 cm when you rebarrel.
Montrose
Montrose
^^^ exactly. I have a metric sh!t ton of .308 bullets and powders. When that runs out, I plan to switch to 6.5.
I’m going to go way out on a limb and say get a 6.5 now, and very shortly after get a 300 Win Mag or similar. Once you start shooting long you will want to shoot farther. I love 308. It isn’t the most efficient cartridge by today’s standards, but it’s cheap and fun to shoot. 6.5 has better ballistics and getting to 1000 or so a bit easier. Throwing a heavy 30 caliber bullet at a target past 1000 is fun, and addicting. Whatever you get, prepare for another soon.
I'm making the same choices and chose 6.5. As a newbie, the most important thing to me is to get repeatable results consistently.
6.5 has superseded .308...meets and beats it at all ranges, imo.
VooDoo
6.5 has superseded .308...meets and beats it at all ranges, imo.
VooDoo
For well over 15 years, my approach has been to use the .223 and the .260.
The .223 is an easily obtained and handloaded training cartridge that first encounters significant wind deflection at around 300yd, and is particularly educational regarding wind skills at distances that are a lot shorter and easier to access than what would be similarly useful for either the 6.5CM or the .308.
Then, for the money shots; the .260 does whatever the 6.5CM will do with the same bullet, but with an easy 50 to 100fps greater velocity. I think the .260 plowed the ground for the 6.5's here in North America, then got subjected to a marketing blitz hawking the 6.5CM. Add to this the relatively greater availability of 260 brass, as well as .243 and 7-08 brass for neck sizing/forming .260, and I think I'm beginning to see a sort of chambering bait and switch.
I started with the .260 back in 2001, and have no motivation to change to the 6.5CM whatsoever.
The 6.5CM has two small advantages, one being available factory match-shootable ammo, and a very small shorter length advantage in magazine feeders. I have never had a problem handloading, feeding, and shooting the .260 for a magazine. Since I also handload at least 95% of the ammunition I shoot, factory match ammo is unattractive to me, even though it's actually available for the .260 (FGMM, Prime, Hornady. etc.).
I recently restored the 308 to my collection of LR capable rifles for the first time in about 15 years, more on a whim than much else. I still have half a mind to using the rifle as a donor for a 260 drop-in barrel; while I'm currently doing a back-burner load development project using the .308, IMR-4064, and the 178gr ELD-X. This project may bear useful results in 2018.
I'm also working up a load with the same bullet and propellant in the .30-'06, with the same considerations at play.
Greg
The .223 is an easily obtained and handloaded training cartridge that first encounters significant wind deflection at around 300yd, and is particularly educational regarding wind skills at distances that are a lot shorter and easier to access than what would be similarly useful for either the 6.5CM or the .308.
Then, for the money shots; the .260 does whatever the 6.5CM will do with the same bullet, but with an easy 50 to 100fps greater velocity. I think the .260 plowed the ground for the 6.5's here in North America, then got subjected to a marketing blitz hawking the 6.5CM. Add to this the relatively greater availability of 260 brass, as well as .243 and 7-08 brass for neck sizing/forming .260, and I think I'm beginning to see a sort of chambering bait and switch.
I started with the .260 back in 2001, and have no motivation to change to the 6.5CM whatsoever.
The 6.5CM has two small advantages, one being available factory match-shootable ammo, and a very small shorter length advantage in magazine feeders. I have never had a problem handloading, feeding, and shooting the .260 for a magazine. Since I also handload at least 95% of the ammunition I shoot, factory match ammo is unattractive to me, even though it's actually available for the .260 (FGMM, Prime, Hornady. etc.).
I recently restored the 308 to my collection of LR capable rifles for the first time in about 15 years, more on a whim than much else. I still have half a mind to using the rifle as a donor for a 260 drop-in barrel; while I'm currently doing a back-burner load development project using the .308, IMR-4064, and the 178gr ELD-X. This project may bear useful results in 2018.
I'm also working up a load with the same bullet and propellant in the .30-'06, with the same considerations at play.
Greg
