Range Report 6.5 Creedmoor Zero

[wmfirefighter]

What is the range that you guys that shoot the 6.5 creedmoor zero your scope in for the smallest spread down range; out to say around 400 yds? I understand that there are a lot of factors involved in this answer like bullet grn weight, powder charge, etc. I am just looking at more of a general starting point other than the traditional 200 yd zero.

I ask this after watching the Vigilance Elite's video on You Tube on zeroing his AR at 36 yds for a much better spread out to around 300 yds and it got me thinking about other calibers. I planning on getting a 6.5 Creedmoor soon and am gathering information ahead of time. Thanks in advance for legit answers!

 

[schmi015]

For the most part on the hide here you will find that guys use a 100yd or meter zero and dial or use a holdover in their reticle and utilize a ballistic calculator and shoot to verify their data; for this a decent scope in first focal plane with mil/mil or moa/ moa (meaning turret and reticle use same system) adjustments would work best. For example you might find an older leupold with a mil reticle and moa turrets-avoid that. Now for what you are asking a 100yd zero with a generic 6.5 load gives you a rough point blank range of 350 yds.

For AR's that's kind of acceptable because the army uses a 25m zero and it gives a relatively minimal drop ensuring that center mass is targeted area. AWG was teaching a 200m zero on AR's because you didn't have as much drop at 300m and were only two inches or so higher at say 150 so you weren't shooting over those targets like you might with the 25 m zero.

With a precision rifle you want to either dial or hold for point of aim and point of impact.

Play around with JBM and you'll get an idea of what you're asking for. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

 

[wmfirefighter]

For the most part on the hide here you will find that guys use a 100yd or meter zero and dial or use a holdover in their reticle and utilize a ballistic calculator and shoot to verify their data; for this a decent scope in first focal plane with mil/mil or moa/ moa (meaning turret and reticle use same system) adjustments would work best. For example you might find an older leupold with a mil reticle and moa turrets-avoid that. Now for what you are asking a 100yd zero with a generic 6.5 load gives you a rough point blank range of 350 yds.

For AR's that's kind of acceptable because the army uses a 25m zero and it gives a relatively minimal drop ensuring that center mass is targeted area. AWG was teaching a 200m zero on AR's because you didn't have as much drop at 300m and were only two inches or so higher at say 150 so you weren't shooting over those targets like you might with the 25 m zero.

With a precision rifle you want to either dial or hold for point of aim and point of impact.

Play around with JBM and you'll get an idea of what you're asking for. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

I have been playing around on JBM quite a bit, but it's hard to get an exact because of not having the chrono measurements. I plan on hand loading these rounds and want to know exact values for yardage. I get the scope adjustments not matching the reticle measurements, that is always the first thing that I look at when I am looking for a new scope. Thankfully most of them now a days are matching.

On the AR point, that really just got my thought processes going on other calibers. I know where I hunt with my .30-06, I have it zero'd at 25 yards and I don't have to worry about hold over at all because the longest shot I will more than likely have is around 250 yds (and that's really stretching it); the average shot is between 115-165 yds. With my reloads, I can hold on target with a 25 yd zero and my maximum bullet impact ranges in the affected yardages of my hunting lease is roughly +/- 3" at the longest distances. Hunting the whitetail with my point of aim, bullet drop is a non issue at such close ranges.

Thank you for your reply and getting me thinking more about where is a good place to start.

 

[m1match]

You will find that ballistic programs like JBM will get you close if you have good muzzle velocities, but almost all of them need to be "tweaked" to match your actual dope. Besides good chronograph data, there's no substitute for shooting out to distance and logging your actual data. That way you can use your chronographed muzzle velocity and slightly adjust the ballistic coefficient (BC) in your ballistics software to match your actual observed data.

Once you have some experience and have logged data, I would also advise you to shoot and record data across a wide range of temperatures because most powders are somewhat temperature sensitive. For 6.5 Creedmore one of the best powders, H4350, is also one of the lease temperature sensitive. But others are not. For example, I use Alliant Reloder 15 for my 308 loads. Over the course of the years, I've logged data for it from 40 degrees in the winter to 90 degrees in the summer, and the change in velocity is approximately 1.2 feet per second of velocity for every degree of temp. My ballistic programs (I've used Shooter, Ballistic AE, Hornady 4DOF, and my Kestrel 5700 AB) all have an optional function that you can turn on that lets you input an approximate temperature sensitivity of your load, and it adjusts the muzzle velocity for the temperature at your current condition.

And yes, schmi015 is right, in my experience, everyone, and I mean everyone shooting precision rifle is zeroing at 100 yds or 100 meters, and dialing, or holding over from that reference point.

 

[wmfirefighter]

You will find that ballistic programs like JBM will get you close if you have good muzzle velocities, but almost all of them need to be "tweaked" to match your actual dope. Besides good chronograph data, there's no substitute for shooting out to distance and logging your actual data. That way you can use your chronographed muzzle velocity and slightly adjust the ballistic coefficient (BC) in your ballistics software to match your actual observed data.

Once you have some experience and have logged data, I would also advise you to shoot and record data across a wide range of temperatures because most powders are somewhat temperature sensitive. For 6.5 Creedmore one of the best powders, H4350, is also one of the lease temperature sensitive. But others are not. For example, I use Alliant Reloder 15 for my 308 loads. Over the course of the years, I've logged data for it from 40 degrees in the winter to 90 degrees in the summer, and the change in velocity is approximately 1.2 feet per second of velocity for every degree of temp. My ballistic programs (I've used Shooter, Ballistic AE, Hornady 4DOF, and my Kestrel 5700 AB) all have an optional function that you can turn on that lets you input an approximate temperature sensitivity of your load, and it adjusts the muzzle velocity for the temperature at your current condition.

And yes, schmi015 is right, in my experience, everyone, and I mean everyone shooting precision rifle is zeroing at 100 yds or 100 meters, and dialing, or holding over from that reference point.

So is everyone zeroing at 100 yds because that is the best ballistic advantage for their dope, it allows them to have the most repeatable starting point on accruing new dope or is it that way because "that's the way we've always done it"?

I'm not trying to stir the pot or offend anyone for their hard work, just trying to completely understand other's methods to the madness. I am new to PRS and am not on the same level as many that are on this forum (I am not referring to those "forum gods" that believe they are the end all be all that seem to be on every forum).

 

[TonyTheTiger]

The zeros you see with AR's are meant to be used for maximum point blank range (MPBR). Basically it's similar to your deer rifle, you want to hit somewhere in the kill zone of a relatively large target out to 300yds without having to think about it.
In precision rifle where you have a much smaller target at 380yds, another at 520 and one more at 752, it doesn't matter what your zero is or what MPBR it gives you, you'll be making precise adjustments or holdovers for each of those individual targets. No zero range tinkering will change how they need to be engaged.

 

[m1match]

We use 100 yd or m zeroes because it's much easier to find a 100 yd range, and we can shoot good groups at that range, and therefore get good zeros. Also, by zeroing at 100 yds, we don't need to worry too much about the wind effects unless the wind is above 10 mph or so. Also, most people have scopes that have zero stops where the elevation turret is set to stop at the "0" on the turret or at most .5 or so mils below the "0" marking. We zero at 100 then set our elevation turret so the "0" marking corresponds to our 100 yd zero, then be dial up for any range longer than 100. If we zeroed at a longer range than 100, and then set the "0" marking to that range along with our zero stop, we would not be able to dial our scopes down far enough and would have to hold under.

Zeroing at a longer range doesn't give us any benefit over zeroing at 100. We're going to zero our rifles and record our elevation drops (dope) out to distance anyway.

I think you're overthinking things. One of the key ways to think about it is at long range you're thinking about complex math, the drop of the bullet and the effects of wind on the bullet. The simpler you can make it and the fewer things you have to think about the better off you are. Especially when you start shooting matches where you could be shooting in unconventional positions, like off of a barricade, tank trap, or T post, at multiple targets at multiple ranges, all under time pressure. What works for you when you've got all the time in the world falls apart when you are under time pressure and out of your comfort zone.

 

[Snuby642]

The old school 200 yd zero for a hunting rifle would be a huge waste of the 6.5 capabilities.

Not to say my old 270 has changed in more than 20 years, 100 + 1.75, 200 0, 300-6 inches.
Feather weight 1 cold bore shot wounder.

That stuff worked with a plain or duplex type reticle and capped turrets.
Time to start thinking about modern scope choices to compliment the new firearm.

Get a mil/mil or moa/moa scope with external turrets non caliber specific with adjustable parallax.
A million different choices, in prices to match.

 

[wmfirefighter]

We use 100 yd or m zeroes because it's much easier to find a 100 yd range, and we can shoot good groups at that range, and therefore get good zeros. Also, by zeroing at 100 yds, we don't need to worry too much about the wind effects unless the wind is above 10 mph or so. Also, most people have scopes that have zero stops where the elevation turret is set to stop at the "0" on the turret or at most .5 or so mils below the "0" marking. We zero at 100 then set our elevation turret so the "0" marking corresponds to our 100 yd zero, then be dial up for any range longer than 100. If we zeroed at a longer range than 100, and then set the "0" marking to that range along with our zero stop, we would not be able to dial our scopes down far enough and would have to hold under.

Zeroing at a longer range doesn't give us any benefit over zeroing at 100. We're going to zero our rifles and record our elevation drops (dope) out to distance anyway.

I think you're overthinking things. One of the key ways to think about it is at long range you're thinking about complex math, the drop of the bullet and the effects of wind on the bullet. The simpler you can make it and the fewer things you have to think about the better off you are. Especially when you start shooting matches where you could be shooting in unconventional positions, like off of a barricade, tank trap, or T post, at multiple targets at multiple ranges, all under time pressure. What works for you when you've got all the time in the world falls apart when you are under time pressure and out of your comfort zone.

That all makes sense. I am not really trying to overthink as much as understand why you all are doing what you are doing. Thank you for explaining it in the way that you did.

 

[kthomas]

Zero at 100 yards. Don't over think it.

At 100 yards you don't have to worry about the environmentals really affecting your bullet, and with today's equipment a 100 yard zero will get you to a mile and beyond with a 6.5 Creedmoor.

No reason or advantage to shoot your zero at any other distance.

 

[wmfirefighter]

Zero at 100 yards. Don't over think it.

At 100 yards you don't have to worry about the environmentals really affecting your bullet, and with today's equipment a 100 yard zero will get you to a mile and beyond with a 6.5 Creedmoor.

No reason or advantage to shoot your zero at any other distance.

Well said, that sums it up well.

 

[SageRatSafaris]

Let me add to @m1match’s on-point answer: 100 yd zero facilitates communication with other shooters that overwhelmingly use 100 yd zeros.

Example: if you are at a club match where there are concerns about new competitors shooting over the berm (or under in some cases), the RO may ask for your intended drop adjustment. If you use an oddball zero, your adjustment may not be in the RO’s range of expected answers, kicking off an avoidable round of explaining and double checking.

 

[wmfirefighter]

Let me add to @m1match’s on-point answer: 100 yd zero facilitates communication with other shooters that overwhelmingly use 100 yd zeros.

Example: if you are at a club match where there are concerns about new competitors shooting over the berm (or under in some cases), the RO may ask for your intended drop adjustment. If you use an oddball zero, your adjustment may not be in the RO’s range of expected answers, kicking off an avoidable round of explaining and double checking.

That's a good point that I did not think about. Thanks!

 

[Niles Coyote]

I zero elevation at 200 and set the turret to +.4 mils and Zero windage at 100.

 

[Snuby642]

Just guessing would that be "0" at 100?

 

[OH58DViper]

I zero elevation at 200 and set the turret to +.4 mils and Zero windage at 100.

Which is essentially a 100 yard zero at the "0" mark on your turret. that's like saying I zero at 100 and set my turret to Up .4 to get a 200 zero or 8.4 to get a 1000 yard zero, not exactly a revolutionary technique.....not sure if you're just trying to Troll/confuse the OP, if you are I apologize and carry on. However, if you're not, I would like to quote a wise man from the movie Step Brothers that once said, "You're just coming off as stupid." - Night Hawk

 

[Niles Coyote]

I'll respond by simply stating, Yes.

And leave you with a quote before I run off, "My moma always said, stupid is... as stupid does."

 

[CUBUFF89]

Not to say my old 270 has changed in more than 20 years, 100 + 1.75, 200 0, 300-6 inches.
Feather weight 1 cold bore shot wounder.
.

Hoping that's a typo, a 1 shot wonder, not wounder.

I'll stop being a smartass for a second to agree that's also how I set up my hunting rifles. But for all the reasons listed above I think it makes more sense to set up my 6.5CM and 6mmCM for a 100yd zero. I don't dial elevation on my hunting rifles but just rely on a maximum PBR for the shots I'm willing to take on game. But I love the precision of adjustments my scopes have on my target rifles.

 

[Snuby642]

Ya, that was a good typo.
The old 270 maintains a decent group till it warms up.
I can get about 2- 3 good shots off then it has to cool.

With good ammo it lays them to rest 1 shot.
My patience has improved over the years so I wait on the perfect shot or just pass.
If I dont get a 1 shot kill presented to me they win for the day.

Spent my younger years learning to be a good tracker.
Spent the rest learning patience and respect.

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

Well said, that sums it up well.

With a 6.5 creedmoor how u feel a 50yard 1”high would do for with winchester 125 extreme point factory Ammo I’m brand new to this cartridge and rifle thanks for any help

 

[Snuby642]

At 50 yards you should be roughly 1/2 inch low to be zero at 100.

A 50 yard zero will also be zero at 150 yards.

That is a generalization but very close to most fast calibers and normal scope mounting.

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

Thanks for ur needed reply hope it works

 

[Snuby642]

@Georgiaoutlaw
There are several free balistics calculators you can download.

That way you can see what changes to zero do for you.

Most factory ammo is rated using a 24 inch barrel if you are short you can subtract 25-30 fps per inch you are short.

That will keep you on paper for several hundred yards then you can adjust speed in calculator till it lines up or get a chrono.

 

[tnichols]

100 yard zero here for the above reasons, and, everything is a hold over typically. Hold under just seems odd to me.

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

D

100 yard zero here for the above reasons, and, everything is a hold over typically. Hold under just seems odd to me.

o you think 1” high at 100yds will be ok with the 6.5 creedmoor

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

D

o you think 1” high at 100yds will be ok with the 6.5 creedmoor

 

[tnichols]

Probably Depends on how surgical a guy has to get.

 

[Snuby642]

I'm old so I well know the 1 inch high at a hundred drill.

Not many subscribe to that anymore.

A balistic calculator will want a zero not zero plus figure.

To get close to wringing out a 6.5cm
You may want to reconsider.

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

Ya, that was a good typo.
The old 270 maintains a decent group till it warms up.
I can get about 2- 3 good shots off then it has to cool.

With good ammo it lays them to rest 1 shot.
My patience has improved over the years so I wait on the perfect shot or just pass.
If I dont get a 1 shot kill presented to me they win for the day.
With a savage creedmoor 6.5 do u think 1” high at 100yards is good for hunting purposes only thanks in advance
Spent my younger years learning to be a good tracker.
Spent the rest learning patience and respect.

 

[Snuby642]

If you would give details on the scope it would help people here give recommendations.

If you want to set up a 6.5cm old school style (inch high at 100) you certainly can do that.

Have some teenage kid down load a free balistic calculator for your phone or computer and play around with it.

I have a 270 win with a 4.5x14 scope with capped turrets.

It is going to be set for close range stand hunting. We have stands that present 50-150 yard shots and pretty much nothing else so it will be used exclusively on those stands.

A 50 yard zero is 1/2 inch high at a 100 yards and returns to zero at 150.
So no dialing or hold over needed in that case, not even a thought required.

That being said it does not utilize the potential available for that gun which I have taken game to 300 yards with setup differently.

I no longer purchase scopes with capped turrets and prefer to dial up rather than hold if opportunity is there.

A scope with external turrets and hold over retical will make best use of your 6.5cm's potential. Moa or mils makes no difference but stay away from caliber specific drop reticals.

For hunting and informal target shooting you do not have to spend a fortune.

 

[308pirate]

With a 6.5 creedmoor how u feel a 50yard 1”high would do for with winchester 125 extreme point factory Ammo I’m brand new to this cartridge and rifle thanks for any help

Learn: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

If you would give details on the scope it would help people here give recommendations.

If you want to set up a 6.5cm old school style (inch high at 100) you certainly can do that.

Have some teenage kid down load a free balistic calculator for your phone or computer and play around with it.

I have a 270 win with a 4.5x14 scope with capped turrets.

It is going to be set for close range stand hunting. We have stands that present 50-150 yard shots and pretty much nothing else so it will be used exclusively on those stands.

A 50 yard zero is 1/2 inch high at a 100 yards and returns to zero at 150.
So no dialing or hold over needed in that case, not even a thought required.

That being said it does not utilize the potential available for that gun which I have taken game to 300 yards with setup differently.

I no longer purchase scopes with capped turrets and prefer to dial up rather than hold if opportunity is there.

A scope with external turrets and hold over retical will make best use of your 6.5cm's potential. Moa or mils makes no difference but stay away from caliber specific drop reticals.

For hunting and informal target shooting you do not have to spend a fortune.

I’m using a Nikon Buckmasters two 3-9-40 on a warne rail about 1”high at 100yds think that’s a good set up on a 6,5 creedmoor it’s my first I’m brand new to this gun and caliber thanks for ur help

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

What is the range that you guys that shoot the 6.5 creedmoor zero your scope in for the smallest spread down range; out to say around 400 yds? I understand that there are a lot of factors involved in this answer like bullet grn weight, powder charge, etc. I am just looking at more of a general starting point other than the traditional 200 yd zero.

I ask this after watching the Vigilance Elite's video on You Tube on zeroing his AR at 36 yds for a much better spread out to around 300 yds and it got me thinking about other calibers. I planning on getting a 6.5 Creedmoor soon and am gathering information ahead of time. Thanks in advance for legit answers!

I’ve deer hunted bout all my 53yrs in this world used a 3006 for starters went to a 308 7 or 8yrs ago shot so many deer with both just got a savage axis 6.5 I looked for 140gr cartidges but could only get three boxes of winchester extreme point 125gr just wondering if that be good for whitetails with a 1” high 100 yd zero any help would be greatly appreciated thanks much in advance

 

[HousePlant]

I zero at 100 yards because 100 yards is the closest range I don't have to pay money to use and the closest 200 yard range is "under construction" until who knows when. With a 6.5 Creedmor, in PRS matches out to 1000 yards I don't even spin the dial one whole revolution with a 100 yard zero. Also, 100 yards is short enough distance where wind is not a major factor.

Regarding the question above, Winchester Extreme Point 125gr is great for white tail probably out to 400 yards. That particular bullet expands very quickly so I'd personally avoid shooting through a thick bone or using it on a thick-skinned larger animal. The deer will be dead if you shoot it in the boiler room. 140 gr with a 6.5 Creedmor for whitetail is not a must.

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

Well said, that sums it up well.

What u think bout 1/2” high at 50yds with the creedmoor

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

I’m brand new to the creedmoor & the 6.5 caliber just trying to figure the rite height for deer zeroing at 100 or 50yds thanks for any help

 

[HousePlant]

100

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

Thanks how high at 100 and why u think not little high at 50 would work thanks

 

[HousePlant]

Dead center at 100. If you're in Georgia and using the 6.5CM for hunting, you likely won't shoot past 100 yards anyway.

If you are intending this rifle for bench shooting or other forms of long range, you will simply adjust elevation. Don't over-complicate it right now.

If you want to learn how to do a maximum point blank range zero, go to YouTube.

 

[Snuby642]

That's about enough.

 

[OG10]

A 100 yard zero will be fine if you want to shoot extended range you need to actually shoot those distances and compare hypothetical bullet drop from a chart or graph with actual bullet drop from your rifle having a chronograph makes this process somewhat easier but it is still advisable to do the actual shooting with your rifle and load to verify exactly where your bullet lands the bullet does not lie

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

What is the range that you guys that shoot the 6.5 creedmoor zero your scope in for the smallest spread down range; out to say around 400 yds? I understand that there are a lot of factors involved in this answer like bullet grn weight, powder charge, etc. I am just looking at more of a general starting point other than the traditional 200 yd zero.

I ask this after watching the Vigilance Elite's video on You Tube on zeroing his AR at 36 yds for a much better spread out to around 300 yds and it got me thinking about other calibers. I planning on getting a 6.5 Creedmoor soon and am gathering information ahead of time. Thanks in advance for legit answers!

Thanks for everyone help on the zero for the 6.5 cm I’m now zero dead center at 100yds hope it will be a great season here in Georgia this year brand spanking new to this rifle and caliber 125gr winchester extreme point maybe try the federal power shok 140gr if the winchester 125s don’t work out thanks again I’m still listening to all feedback on this combination thanks again

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

That's about enough.

Mr snuby642 I’m brand new to this rifle and caliber please don’t get aggravated with me I’m now bout dead center as I can get at 100yds r u saying that is a good hunting zero with the 6.5cm savage axis thanks much

 

[spife7980]

Mr snuby642 I’m brand new to this rifle and caliber please don’t get aggravated with me I’m now bout dead center as I can get at 100yds r u saying that is a good hunting zero with the 6.5cm savage axis thanks much

Yes, it’s great.
At 50 you may be a 1/2” high and at 200 you may be 2” low but that’s pretty perfect in my book.
Actually shooting it now to see and verify for your own confidence is the next step.

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

Yes, it’s great.
At 50 you may be a 1/2” high and at 200 you may be 2” low but that’s pretty perfect in my book.
Actually shooting it now to see and verify for your own confidence is the next step.

thanks I do appreciate the help
Thanks for ur help

 

[Dthomas3523]

Pretty simple. Zero at 100. There are several reasons for this that be been discussed repeatedly. Then true your data to get software and/or hard data correct.

Then either dial the exact dope for your shot, or calculate your max point blank for your distance and target size, dial that in for the day/hunt, then dial back to zero when done.

Obviously this is less optimal if your optic doesn’t have hand adjustable turrets. If that’s the case, it’s 2020. Dump any optic that doesn’t and buy one that does.

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

Pretty simple. Zero at 100. There are several reasons for this that be been discussed repeatedly. Then true your data to get software and/or hard data correct.

Then either dial the exact dope for your shot, or calculate your max point blank for your distance and target size, dial that in for the day/hunt, then dial back to zero when done.

Obviously this is less optimal if your optic doesn’t have hand adjustable turrets. If that’s the case, it’s 2020. Dump any optic that doesn’t and buy one that does.

Thanks for ur needed info on this new to me caliber and rifle rite now due to space I’m 1/2” under the bullseye at 25yds think it will be good at 100yds or little beyond I sure hope so 6.5 cartridges are very scarce around my neck of the woods

 

[XLR308]

Since we don't have an emoji yet

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

To make sure I am clear: we are discussing a precision rifle zero, a hunting rifle zero, and a battle-sight zero interchangeably?

Because...why?

My ARs with red dots wear a 36 yard zero, and my precision rifles generally have 100 yard zero, I must be doing all this shit wrong!

 

[Georgiaoutlaw]

My hunting rifle 6.5 savage axis creedmoor 100yd zero should manage all my shots from zero to little better than 100yds if so I’m good and ready for deer season with 125gr winchester extreme point cartidges what u think guys I’m brand new to this cartridge and caliber