6.5 Creedmor Help??

Chiller

Chiller

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Minuteman
    • Dec 18, 2008
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    Sole resident of Mt. Crumpit.
    #1
    I am in the process of trying to educate myself on the 6.5 Creedmoor. I have read Zac Smith’s article, the Youtube video from Hornady waiting for Creedmoor sports to call back. Have done the gratuitous Google search. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. Especially to contrast it with the other 6.5 calibers (.260, 6.5x47, etc).

    I am strongly considering a Eliseo RTS as the platform to build off of. In that I am considering a tube gun I would also like to hear anybodys experiences with Pierce or Borden actions.

    Your help as always is appreciated.
     
    #3
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    Chiller,

    I solicited a ton of info from Rob01, Nomad and KDrake regarding the 6.5cm, 243 and 260. I have known all three for the past 5 or so years and trust what they say, particularly on the subject of the 6.5cm.

    I was looking for a more competitive edge and didn't want to be held to reloading a barrel burner. With those two strict criteria the 6.5 CM was on top of the list. With Hornady producing match grade ammo at an affordable price it became a no brainer. I am not a ballistic guru and my experience is limited to 223, 308, 300 and now I am building on my knowledge of the 6.5cm. To date the 6.5cm is treating me well with forgiving errors on my wind calls and UKD. Just my 2 cents from a 6.5cm new guy.
     
    #4
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    Kick open Pandora's box.

    You, JRose, Hunter I think all of you shoot this cal. You are sponsored by Hornady, would love to hear where the 6.5 Creedmoor jumps ahead of the .260. What are the advantages (I reload so factory is nice and not required). In addition the 120 vs the 140 from Hornady. Looking at building this to be a "comp" gun (One of the reasons I am considering a tube gun platform).
     
    #5
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    Look at my post I made a few days ago, for a Gary Eliseo with Pierce Engineering (TubeGun Special) action, in 6.5mm CM.
    I just got today the sights, waiting for the rear iris.
    I still did not try the action, but it looks very good at first sight.
     
    #6
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    Chiller-
    I'm with you. 6.5, .260, 6.5x47....... I can't decide. Somebody please offer us an education. I'm looking at having GAP build me another rifle if I can only decide how it will be chambered.

    Decisions, decisions....

    I'm going to keep a close eye on this one.
     
    #7
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    Lapua brass is great but the sheer cost of it is a turn off for me, and the case it self does not lend itself to the 140s, 6.5CM is a very well designed cartridge, brass is not overpriced, factory ammo is cheap, 260 brass can be made from any 308 based case, but reloading is required as there is almost nil factory ammo made, I'm going 260 because of brass, single source(6.5x47, 6.5CM) is a turn off for me, Rem brass can be had locally, as well as Win 243 and 7-08, these are my thoughts on the subject, I hope they help.
     
    #8
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    The caliber just works for me. Compared to the other 6.5s it is ballisticaly similar. Zak's article gives a fair rundown of them. For me being able to shoot factory ammo and get excellent performance from it helps alot as I don't have to sit at the reloading bench and I can be out shooting. Got a new lot of 140 AMAX in and tested it the other day and it was giving me 2.25" groups at 400 yards and at or under 1/2" at 100 yards. Can't ask for more than that from factory ammo.

    That said the reloader can hot rod the 6.5 Creedmoor also as from the factory it is loaded to a lower pressure so there is room for speed. I have played with loadings and loaded the 140s up to 2870fps with no pressure signs and loaded the brass 4 times and the primer pockets are still tight. I believe 2900fps is easily obtainable and I think a member here has done it with RL17.

    I have been shooting the 6.5 Creedmoor since August 08 and love it. I have won a bunch of matches with it and coming from a .243 I don't feel let down at all.

    Also on brass, there have been members here that have formed 6.5 Creedmoor from .308, .260 and .243 brass so it's not really single source if you don't want the Hornady brass which is very good.

    In the end it's your money and your decision on what to buy.
     
    #9
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    I posted this somewhere else but it fits here...

    Ballistically the Hornady 6.5CM is close enough to the 260Rem and 6.5x47 that to me it's not worth arguing over. It is however, way better than the .308Win...way better.

    This is the best part...it's the cheepest to shoot as well. As of last check...Midway was selling...

    Hornady 6.5CM for $24 a box
    CorBon 260Rem for $31 a box
    Federal GMM .308win $37 a box
    6.5x47 Lapua for $57 a box

    To me it's a no brainer...you can reload for all of these cartridges...some I would even say you have to.

    Call GAP...they have the 6.5CM reamer. I went down to Texas for a rifle match and used the data off the Hornady box to make my data cards and it was dead on...I would have been happy with close...but it literally was dead on.


    $1200 for 1000 rounds of loaded match ammo in Hornady 6.5CM

    $1550 for 1000 rounds of Corbon 260

    $1850 for 1000 rounds of Federal GMM .308....(this is insane)

    $2850 for 1000 rounds of 6.5x47 Lapua

    you could get 460 more rounds of Hornady verse Federal for the $1850...thats no small difference especially since the 308 cant come close to the 6.5CM

    Pick what you will...any of the 6.5 cals mentioned are proven to be accurate...your logistics and finances can help you decide.



    On the question of barrel life...

    I don't know of anyone burning out a 6.5 CM barrel yet but let’s just play with some numbers for fun.

    When I was in the Marine Corps we had a Schneider barreled M40A1 that had 7000 rounds on it and was still shooting very well. We will say this is average for a .308win and I'm sure some have been cooked before this number.

    So at $1850 per 1000 rounds of Federal GMM you will spend $12,950 for 7000 rounds and need a new barrel.

    ... so let’s ASSUME we get half (that seems significant to me) the barrel life of a .308win with the 6.5CM...so let’s go with 3500 rounds in the 6.5CM before you need a new one.

    At $1200 per 1000 rounds of 6.5CM you will spend $8,400 for the same 7000 rounds like the .308win Federal GMM. That’s a difference of $4,550!!!!!!!!!! And you needed to hypothetically get one new barrel. I think I could buy a custom rifle with glass with that savings let alone a new barrel.

    I'm guessing you could afford more than one barrel change with the money you save. Not to mention you have to be pretty motivated to put even 1000 rounds a year down range.


    Be safe, shoot well

    --KJ
     
    #10
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    Balistically we are a scrub between the 6.5cm, 6.5x47, and .260. Barrel life is essentially a scrub also between the 6.5/.260 family (assuming we are not loading wicked hot)? The advantage comes down to one of cost? Even more a cost of factory ammo?

    What have the experiences been between the 120 vs. the 140 Amax? Do people when they do reload come back to the 139 Lapua?

    I do appreciate everybody’s input and look to hear any other thoughts.
     
    #11
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    I have the Creed as well, and it's fundamentaly accurate, inexspensive and now Hornady will be producing an upgraded load to boost velocity and performance without raising pressures significantly. To me it has been a very influential cartridge that does many things very well.
     
    #12
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KJDrake</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I posted this somewhere else but it fits here...

    Ballistically the Hornady 6.5CM is close enough to the 260Rem and 6.5x47 that to me it's not worth arguing over. It is however, way better than the .308Win...way better.

    This is the best part...it's the cheepest to shoot as well. As of last check...Midway was selling...

    Hornady 6.5CM for $24 a box
    CorBon 260Rem for $31 a box
    Federal GMM .308win $37 a box
    6.5x47 Lapua for $57 a box

    To me it's a no brainer...you can reload for all of these cartridges...some I would even say you have to.

    Call GAP...they have the 6.5CM reamer. I went down to Texas for a rifle match and used the data off the Hornady box to make my data cards and it was dead on...I would have been happy with close...but it literally was dead on.


    $1200 for 1000 rounds of loaded match ammo in Hornady 6.5CM

    $1550 for 1000 rounds of Corbon 260

    $1850 for 1000 rounds of Federal GMM .308....(this is insane)

    $2850 for 1000 rounds of 6.5x47 Lapua

    you could get 460 more rounds of Hornady verse Federal for the $1850...thats no small difference especially since the 308 cant come close to the 6.5CM

    Pick what you will...any of the 6.5 cals mentioned are proven to be accurate...your logistics and finances can help you decide.



    On the question of barrel life...

    I don't know of anyone burning out a 6.5 CM barrel yet but let’s just play with some numbers for fun.

    When I was in the Marine Corps we had a Schneider barreled M40A1 that had 7000 rounds on it and was still shooting very well. We will say this is average for a .308win and I'm sure some have been cooked before this number.

    So at $1850 per 1000 rounds of Federal GMM you will spend $12,950 for 7000 rounds and need a new barrel.

    ... so let’s ASSUME we get half (that seems significant to me) the barrel life of a .308win with the 6.5CM...so let’s go with 3500 rounds in the 6.5CM before you need a new one.

    At $1200 per 1000 rounds of 6.5CM you will spend $8,400 for the same 7000 rounds like the .308win Federal GMM. That’s a difference of $4,550!!!!!!!!!! And you needed to hypothetically get one new barrel. I think I could buy a custom rifle with glass with that savings let alone a new barrel.

    I'm guessing you could afford more than one barrel change with the money you save. Not to mention you have to be pretty motivated to put even 1000 rounds a year down range.


    Be safe, shoot well

    --KJ </div></div>

    Drake done whipped out the calculator on your asses....

    FWIW, I like my CM so far. Factory load is way to slow to be beneficial, but I've got a hand load that's turned it into a laser, so whatever...
     
    #14
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    BTW, I'm getting a tick over 2900fps out of a 25" barrel with RL-17, and while I haven't shot but a couple hundred rounds of this load through the rifle, and it's still too early to tell how the brass will handle it, I've only lost 4 primers and I think that was due more to swapping around naked and hBN bullets vs. pure overpressure.

    Time will tell, but 4 cases out of 200 doesn't have me worried yet.
     
    #15
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    Look in Litz' book and you will see the actual tested BC on the 140 AMAX is higher than the 139 Scenar so no reason to go to the Scenar and spend more. I use the 140s exclusively as they are better at long range than the 120s and they shoot great up close as well. The 120s were built for the 300 yard match shooters to have less recoil.
     
    #16
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    I would've used the shit out of the 140 AMAX, I went with the Scenar b/c I had them available when I did load developing. I get phenomenal groups with the factory AMAX load though, albeit slow.

    When I run out of Scenars, I might try to get some AMAX's and tweak my load a bit. If I feel like doing load development again...
    sick.gif
     
    #17
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    I like the 6.5CM so much I'm having another built. The factory load is tame and does have plenty 'o room to play with so, I am following Jason and Geoff's lead and going the RL17 and Scenar 139 route. Rifle should be ready next week so we'll see how the load does on some whitetails past the 600 mark. The 120gr barnes TSX load I used on Elk worked fan-freakin-tastic. Factory load accuracy was superb as well. You'll like the advantages that the 6.5 Creedmoor offers that others have mentioned above. The Creedmoor is a very good, versatile round.
     
    #18
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    I believe there is a 123 A-Max coming out and a 129 SST for hunting coming out or already out....I would asume a GMX load one day too....I have one on the way b/c I am not a hand re-loader

    interesting note on ammunition availability: Midway and Creedmor sports dont have them in stock, 3rd Generation is only place I could find 140's last week...
     
    #20
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel length on a 6.5cm??? </div></div>

    Whatever you ask your smith to cut it at.
    grin.gif
     
    #21
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel length on a 6.5cm??? </div></div>

    Whatever you ask your smith to cut it at.
    grin.gif
    </div></div>

    Smartass...

    Serious, the .260 seems to be able to take a short barrel. Any input on what works well??
     
    #22
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    Jason runs something like 26 inches Rob runs 28". You probably wouldnt want to go any shorter than 25" thats what my 6x47 Lapua is. 25+ and you should be good, Jason has a way of being a smart ass
     
    #24
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    When I first got my 6.5 (built by GAP) I was only shooting it 300 yards and closer with almost no wind. The 120s were perfect and I started out with 5 round groups the size of a gnats ass. A few weeks after I headed down to TX for a few weeks and shot almost every other day for 2 weeks at movers, distance and a handful of UKDs. I was shooting 140s and it shot excellent!

    I was all set to go 260 or 243 and it really came down to cost. The numbers were not much different other than what it would cost me to shoot. If money wasn't an issue I would shoot 7wsm but I love to shoot and have a budget to consider.

    Drake, Rob and Nomad are sponsored by Hornady... Though we have been friends long before they were sponsored. I don't think it is fair to toss a sponsorship in someones face, especially when they win comps or perform at a higher level. The numbers speak for themselves.
     
    #27
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel length on a 6.5cm??? </div></div>

    Whatever you ask your smith to cut it at.
    grin.gif
    </div></div>

    Mine is 26 with a BO FTE brake.
     
    #28
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy_bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't think it is fair to toss a sponsorship in someones face, especially when they win comps or perform at a higher level. The numbers speak for themselves. </div></div>

    Not tossing it in their face at all. I respect their skill and aspire to do better on my part. I am curious about their input in that they are on the "inside line" for development.
     
    #30
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Look in Litz' book and you will see the actual tested BC on the 140 AMAX is higher than the 139 Scenar so no reason to go to the Scenar and spend more.</div></div>


    What is the BC for the 140 AMAX then? That's the only reason I ran with the 139 Scenars...
     
    #32
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    I am thrilled with 6.5 CM. The factory offering is really good, and cheap. I have found it as low as 16 bucks a box.

    I am getting 2900 fps + from the factory 120's.

    Berger makes a VERY promising 6.5 that I am going to try soon, but I have had ZERO issues with Hornady's stuff out to 800 yds.

    The reason I chose Creedmore is simple, if you load, you load, makes not difference. If you ever get in a situation where you can't or don't want to get a bunch of ammo loaded, you have a much better option with the Creedmoor. I eliminated 6.5x47 early because it uses a small primer. Simple in my book. Hell, my local shop even carries it (and they don't even stock FGMM in 308).

    And the results are everything I wanted and more.

    This is 120's from last weekend. 100 yrds, ten rounds and then I pulled the scope, replaced it and shot ten more. The scope moving raised the POI a little and I still wound up with what I would consider very acceptable results.

    Again, thisw is 20 rounds of FACTORY ammo that sells for 24 dollars a box!

    IMG_0790.jpg
     
    #34
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    I run a 28" MTU profile 8 twist Krieger barrel. You can run the Creedmoor at any barrel length you run a .260 at but don't expect the factory ammo to be as fast. You will have to handload it up. Personally I would stay around 26" but definitely wouldn't go below 24".
     
    #35
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    I had Dave at APA build my Creedmoor on a Badger action with a Bartlien barrel. Even he was impressed with the accuracy of the factory loading. I picked it up, verified zero, shot a 500 yd F Class match (my first) and have to say I came away convinced I made the right choice. BTW I have a GAP 260 1 in 8 and a APA 6.5x284 with 1 in 8.
    I got test targets with my build from APA that went .214 for 3 shots @ 100 yds during barrel break in. My first target @ 500 was 20 rounds inside 3.5" prone from a bipod. I took some of the brass and loaded 41.5 gr H4350 behind a 142 SMK. My groups were shot at 100 yds for comparison. The first was .142 and the second was every bit as good until I pulled the last shot out. It came in at a .290.
    The barrel is 26" and has a LFB brake on it. The rifle is almost boring to shoot. A lot less noise than I expected and NO recoil. I can actually see impacts at 100 yds.
    That 20 round group is awesome!
     
    #38
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    Bro
    Go to the reloading section

    Select "Snipers hide reloading depot" at top of page

    go to Loads for .260 /.243/ 6.5x47/6.5 Creedmoor

    Now some of these guys are sponsored by big names like Hornady etc
    i,m not

    I had same questions not so long ago
    I went x47
    super strong brass
    can load long and still feed from mag, not so much in 260/CM

    browse thru loads and fps guys get
    X47 will spank both 260 and CM, info on loads folks use and post info for bears that out

    Use 130gr bullet you will be much better served by any of these.
     
    #39
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bro
    Go to the reloading section

    Select "Snipers hide reloading depot" at top of page

    go to Loads for .260 /.243/ 6.5x47/6.5 Creedmoor

    Now some of these guys are sponsored by big names like Hornady etc
    i,m not

    I had same questions not so long ago
    I went x47
    super strong brass
    can load long and still feed from mag, not so much in 260/CM

    browse thru loads and fps guys get
    X47 will spank both 260 and CM, info on loads folks use and post info for bears that out

    Use 130gr bullet you will be much better served by any of these. </div></div>

    Spank? Really?

    Seeing as how your pushing a 130 grain pill around 60-75fps faster than I'm pushing a 140 grainer, I'd hardly say that's a spanking...

    Lets be real here.... The CM is a 6.5x47 with Hornady brass, it's almost the same case dimensions.

    So while i concede that the x47 gets you better brass, I hardly think your gonna get any wild performance gains from it...
     
    #41
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    After competeting for a few years with my .308, I got tired of hearing wind calls that were half of what I was shooting. To quote a infamous master friends don't let friends shoot .308....so I sent my trusty rig to quoted master he owns a gun place called G_P, and told him put what ever you think is best on her, and he sent me 6.5 CM. I am very happy with the way it shoots 1/4 inch gun blal blal blal. I agree with the ballistics of the above mentioned non .308 cartriges not worth arguing over. But I gotta say Drakes math makes the most $$$ sense
     
    #43
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now some of these guys are sponsored by big names like Hornady etc
    i,m not

    </div></div>

    I am sick and tired of my integrity being brought into question when it comes to our sponsorships. It's not a secret to anyone who is on the Hide, it's on our website which is also open for anyone to see and the huge banner in the sig line is there for all the world to see so people bringing it up time and time again seems more like envy than anything. Bottom line is I wouldn't use something if it didn't work and I think my record speaks for itself.

    Sorry Team AndiCapp isn't sponsored Karl but don't come on here spouting off like above and trying to make us look bad for supporting a round that works and does what the 6.5x47 does for cheaper. You actually should contact Lapua and see if they will sponsor you because you push the 6.5x47 like you created it.

    The facts are the facts about the rounds no matter who puts it out there so stop trying to sway the discussion and muddying the waters by brining up our sponsorships which is already public knowledge.

    Rant off.
     
    #44
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    2.800 OAL puts a 130jlk BT @ neck junction

    Most guys can run 2.800 pert easy

    I ran 308 with modded mags out to 2.990..whats ya point

    2975fps is load i use but not max

    Hit 3050fps with zero pressure issues 42.3g H4350

    not finding any 260/CM shooter getting that kinda performance

    CM good lil round, better than 260 IMHO but its not a x47.
     
    #45
    Re: 6.5 Creedmor Help??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2.800 OAL puts a 130jlk BT @ neck junction

    Most guys can run 2.800 pert easy

    I ran 308 with modded mags out to 2.990..whats ya point

    2975fps is load i use but not max

    Hit 3050fps with zero pressure issues 42.3g H4350

    not finding any 260/CM shooter getting that kinda performance

    CM good lil round, better than 260 IMHO but its not a x47.


    </div></div>

    You crack me up...
    grin.gif
     
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