Hey all, question. Gonna start loading for my 6.5 with Norma brass, h4350, 140gr Hybrids. I cannot for the life of me find an actual STARTING load and minimum COAL with the 140 bergers actually published anywhere. Any help is appreciated.
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6.5 Creemoor w/ 140gr Berger Hybrid Starting load?
- Thread starter Shooter_308
- Start date
Go to the Hodgdon website and use their metallic reloading tables - they have all the info you require to start working up a load safely. Then Google "Optimal Charge Weight/Dan Newberry" and use that procedure to get the best load for YOUR rifle.
Enjoy!
Enjoy!
No, I know how to reload, I've been doing it for years but it's always been started with published data. I can't find any published data for a Berger 140 Hybrid.
Norma brass has a small bit less capacity than hornady brass. I run 42.2 with 140's/hornady. If I remember correctly, the norma was about half a grain less. I would start at 40 grains and work up.
Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264, 140, Berger Hybr #26414
Useable Case Capaci: 45.037 grain H2O = 2.924 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.830 inch = 71.88 mm
Barrel Length : 27.0 inch = 685.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.716% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-07.2 96 39.16 2647 2178 49402 7637 97.8 1.415
-06.4 97 39.46 2666 2209 50521 7685 98.0 1.401
-05.7 98 39.76 2684 2240 51666 7732 98.2 1.387
-05.0 99 40.06 2703 2272 52838 7778 98.4 1.374
-04.3 99 40.37 2722 2303 54037 7822 98.6 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
-03.6 100 40.67 2740 2335 55263 7865 98.7 1.347 ! Near Maximum !
-02.9 101 40.97 2759 2366 56519 7906 98.9 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
-02.1 102 41.27 2778 2398 57803 7946 99.0 1.321 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 102 41.57 2796 2430 59118 7985 99.2 1.308 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 103 41.87 2815 2463 60464 8022 99.3 1.295 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 42.18 2833 2495 61841 8057 99.4 1.283 ! Near Maximum !
+00.7 105 42.48 2851 2527 63252 8091 99.5 1.270 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.4 105 42.78 2870 2560 64696 8124 99.6 1.258 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.1 106 43.08 2888 2593 66176 8155 99.7 1.246 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.9 107 43.38 2906 2626 67691 8184 99.8 1.234 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6 108 43.69 2925 2659 69243 8212 99.8 1.222 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 42.18 2937 2681 72781 7766 100.0 1.202 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 42.18 2686 2243 51103 8008 95.2 1.389
Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264, 140, Berger Hybr #26414
Useable Case Capaci: 45.037 grain H2O = 2.924 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.830 inch = 71.88 mm
Barrel Length : 27.0 inch = 685.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.716% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-07.2 96 39.16 2647 2178 49402 7637 97.8 1.415
-06.4 97 39.46 2666 2209 50521 7685 98.0 1.401
-05.7 98 39.76 2684 2240 51666 7732 98.2 1.387
-05.0 99 40.06 2703 2272 52838 7778 98.4 1.374
-04.3 99 40.37 2722 2303 54037 7822 98.6 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
-03.6 100 40.67 2740 2335 55263 7865 98.7 1.347 ! Near Maximum !
-02.9 101 40.97 2759 2366 56519 7906 98.9 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
-02.1 102 41.27 2778 2398 57803 7946 99.0 1.321 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 102 41.57 2796 2430 59118 7985 99.2 1.308 ! Near Maximum !
-00.7 103 41.87 2815 2463 60464 8022 99.3 1.295 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 42.18 2833 2495 61841 8057 99.4 1.283 ! Near Maximum !
+00.7 105 42.48 2851 2527 63252 8091 99.5 1.270 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.4 105 42.78 2870 2560 64696 8124 99.6 1.258 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.1 106 43.08 2888 2593 66176 8155 99.7 1.246 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.9 107 43.38 2906 2626 67691 8184 99.8 1.234 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6 108 43.69 2925 2659 69243 8212 99.8 1.222 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 42.18 2937 2681 72781 7766 100.0 1.202 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 42.18 2686 2243 51103 8008 95.2 1.389
I would actually start at 41 grains and work up. there are a ton of recipes in the Reloading depot. I've never used norma brass but with Hornady I found my load at 42.3 H4350 loaded to 2.18 to Ogive and that gave me 2815 out of a 24" Bartlein. I loaded all the way up to 43.3 before I started seeing pressure signs. 140 hybrids are not jump sensitive at all, but they are very long so you can't just start a few thou off the lands as you will still be beyond mag length.
Well as a base-line, I started at Mag Length 39-42.5gr. Gonna see what it does and move up from there.
Well, got some serious info here. Really nice node at 40gr of h4350. Also noticed a possible node around 42, going to move up to 42.5 in .1 increments. Not sure if I'll have unburnt powder issues though, only being a 20" barrel. Groups were shot round-Robin. I have NO clue what happened at 41.5, and 39 has an extra round in it intended for 39.5 (I wasn't paying attention). These were all at 2.820 COAL, I forget BTO size, I have it written down.
Attachments
I'm at 41 grains H4350 , Lapua SRF brass, CCI 450 primer, 24" RPR bbl, loaded to 2.81" COAL. MV ~2700-ish. All my loads (different powders and bullets) are around 2700-ish MV and in two rifles, gas and bolt, and have proven accurate to very accurate and have hits just past 1K.
Looking to also try out the Berger 140 Hybrids.
So far I have been using 140 ELD-M, I have been using 41.5 (max book), Lapua SRP Brass (5x fired), 205M out of my Accuracy International AT 24" stock barrel. I avg 2750s with single digit SDs. Works great at 1100 and just as good at a mile.
I have some fresh Lapua Brass coming in. I will break in the brass on the 140 ELD-Ms and see if the Berger likes 41.5gr as well.
So far I have been using 140 ELD-M, I have been using 41.5 (max book), Lapua SRP Brass (5x fired), 205M out of my Accuracy International AT 24" stock barrel. I avg 2750s with single digit SDs. Works great at 1100 and just as good at a mile.
I have some fresh Lapua Brass coming in. I will break in the brass on the 140 ELD-Ms and see if the Berger likes 41.5gr as well.
I started load development on the same bullet and powder combo this weekend
Load:
Berger 140gr Hybrids
Lapua small primer brass
H4350 Powder
FGM SR primers
Brass Prep:
Turned necks with K&M
Uniform primer pockets
Uniform and debur flash holes
Neck size with Redding competition bushing die
I had an issue with COAL fitting in to the magazines with the jump I wanted to start with @ .030. I ended up setting the jump @ .070 to fit the mags but the Hybrids are very tolerant of the longer jumps. I was aiming for 2850fps and just hit it with my max load. I am going to load up a few more charges above this group to see if there is a node between 2850 and 2900 but will probably end up around 2750fps. Every load shot sub .75" and plenty of options with single digit SD's.
Try some Reloder 16 if you want to push 140s into the 2900 range.
New Winchester Staball 6.5 ball powder
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/winchester-staball-6-5/ For 6.5cm and similar calibers. Powder Valley is calling it the greatest invention since Varget. Those are big shoes to fill. We will see if it lives up to the hype Increased velocity Temperature Instability Reduced Copper...
www.snipershide.com
here's my junk
2780FPS
Starline LRP
140 hybrid
40.0 RL16
F215M
.050 OTL
Getting flattened primers. Anything higher than 40 grains I get sticky bolts and ejector marks
seems like everything shot out of my pipe likes to be .050 OTL .. while the hybrids are a larger 5 shot group in the .4s than other 140 class. I could tighten that up with seating depth fine tuning should I feel inclined
ETA: I messed up my data with the VLDs ...
2780FPS
Starline LRP
140 hybrid
40.0 RL16
F215M
.050 OTL
Getting flattened primers. Anything higher than 40 grains I get sticky bolts and ejector marks
seems like everything shot out of my pipe likes to be .050 OTL .. while the hybrids are a larger 5 shot group in the .4s than other 140 class. I could tighten that up with seating depth fine tuning should I feel inclined
ETA: I messed up my data with the VLDs ...
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I'm about to start playing around with the 140 hybrids and RL 26.... see how hard we can push those. I have a factory Savage barrel I'm getting itchy to replace, but I can't bring myself to swap it without using it up a little more.
Starline SRP 6.5cm brass - CCI 450's
Starting around 44.5gr and working up to 47+ depending on what my pressure test tells me.
Due to the hybrid design, I'm gonna have to seat them quite a bit further off the lands to keep OAL mag length, so looking at around a 80-100 thou jump and go from there.
Starline SRP 6.5cm brass - CCI 450's
Starting around 44.5gr and working up to 47+ depending on what my pressure test tells me.
Due to the hybrid design, I'm gonna have to seat them quite a bit further off the lands to keep OAL mag length, so looking at around a 80-100 thou jump and go from there.
Guys - I'm new to this forum, and haven't used these much, so I apologize if I'm doing something wrong! I am an "oldie but goodie," and have been shooting since I was 5 (BB Gun) and have done a lot of rifle, pistol and shotgun (skeet) shooting, and a ton of shotgun shell reloading, some pistol, and almost no rifle. I got the "PRS Bug" recently, and bought a 6.5 Creedmoor RPR, and topped it with a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 EBR-7C MRAD, since I'm going to try to really get into PRS shooting. I want to reload so I can carefully control the process. I've bought Lapua small primer brass & Berger 140 Hybrid bullets. Haven't been able to find primers or powder, but I have a significant number of Winchester WSR primers I will be forced to use, since I can't get CCI. I assume they will work fine - at least for now. I'm searching for H4350 for my powder and hope to find some in the next 30-60 days. I've been told to suck it up and buy the Redding National Match Die Set (buy once, cry once??) for my reloading dies. I've gotten a lot of good information off this thread and this site to start me in the process. I would love any feedback any of you can give me to help me start on my journey.
I've seen things mentioned like, "Turned necks; Uniform primer pockets; Uniform and debur flash holes; Neck size with Redding competition bushing die" etc. I don't need beginner lessons in reloading (about safety, being careful with measuring powder, etc.) but would really like one or more of you that have done this awhile to steer me towards things to get (debur flash holes?) and really how to do careful, "anal" one-at-a-time reloading to get the best results. Feel free to point me to sites, forums, videos, etc.
Again, I hope that this thread is still open and I'm not too late in posting here. If I did it wrong, someone tell me (without too many "you dumba##" remarks) and I'll happily do a better job the next time! I'm excited and eager to start on this journey! I was a top shooter in skeet, competing in a number of World Championships, and know the dedication and focus it takes in both shooting and reloading; I'm hoping to bring that experience over to my RPR in the PRS world! I'm in southern CA (San Diego area) and would be happy to link up with anyone in the area or show up at shoots, meetings, etc.
Thanks VERY much for any help, support and direction you can provide!
I've seen things mentioned like, "Turned necks; Uniform primer pockets; Uniform and debur flash holes; Neck size with Redding competition bushing die" etc. I don't need beginner lessons in reloading (about safety, being careful with measuring powder, etc.) but would really like one or more of you that have done this awhile to steer me towards things to get (debur flash holes?) and really how to do careful, "anal" one-at-a-time reloading to get the best results. Feel free to point me to sites, forums, videos, etc.
Again, I hope that this thread is still open and I'm not too late in posting here. If I did it wrong, someone tell me (without too many "you dumba##" remarks) and I'll happily do a better job the next time! I'm excited and eager to start on this journey! I was a top shooter in skeet, competing in a number of World Championships, and know the dedication and focus it takes in both shooting and reloading; I'm hoping to bring that experience over to my RPR in the PRS world! I'm in southern CA (San Diego area) and would be happy to link up with anyone in the area or show up at shoots, meetings, etc.
Thanks VERY much for any help, support and direction you can provide!
If it doesn't shoot at 41.8 h4350 at 2.81 there are weird things afoot 
Don’t turn or uniform or debur Lapua brass for a RPR. You might want to neck size the case to set the neck tension and that’s it.
Thanks 918v. All tips like this help a lot! I was thinking about just neck sizing and not doing full length resizing, especially with brand new Lapua brass. Any other suggestions are welcome!
Lapua brass, H4350, and Berger 140s are good to go. Where do you plan to shoot PRS?
I haven't a clue right now! I've just gathered together all my goodies. Now have to clean the rifle good, mount the scope, load some ammo (can't find any loaded 6.5!!!!!) and then go to a local range here in San Diego and sight in for 100 yds. Then try to find a place to do some practice and longer range shooting. Just beginning my search. Ideas? Thoughts?
Dont chase lands with this bullet. Start at 2.800” and try to find your accuracy node in that area.
As SD said @TAMU Aggie73 - 6.5Creed load that has worked in last three I've had.If it doesn't shoot at 41.8 h4350 at 2.81 there are weird things afoot
Hornady Brass, 140gn pills, 41.8gn H4350/ADI2209 and a COAL around 2.800-2.840.
Can be tweeked for your exact rifle but will shoot well in my experience.
Another consistently good charge is 40.7gn(with both Hornady and Lapua brass) so maybe try that as well.
Cheers
Full length size. Every. Single. Time.
You may not bump the shoulder as much, if any, on the 1st firing, but check the fit of your brass in your chamber.
I too have found good performance with Hndy brass, the Berger 140 Hybrids, and H4350 in that powder charge range.
As for jump....I did LD for this bullet/brass with about 1k rounds down the Proof SS barrel and, due to throat erosion, being just .010 inside mag mag length has taken me to right at .060 off of the lands and that seems to be working well. I'm not planning to do much in the way of seating depth changes from this as the jump will only get longer with barrel wear and unless I want to single feed, I can't increase the COAL and get in the mag.
Cheers
Concur totally. The 140 Berger hybrid is insensitive to jump(measure a factory loaded Berger to see what I am talking about). In my gun, I am .050 off at full AI mag length ~2.865.
My load is 42.4 H4350 at 2.180 at the Ogive
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hahaha...most here would view Berger's max load as the starting point for load development. That's real slow stuff they are recommending.
40.7 H4350 max load is a joke...error on the side of caution and vetted by a platoon of lawyers. My starting load is 41.0gr H4350.
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I just ran out of 140gr ELDM's and did my first load with 140gr Berger VLD targets. Since i have a pretty mild load, I just loaded up 50 cartridges with my ELDM recipe and tried it out at the range. After a couple of warm-up groups, the last three 5-round groups at 100 yds were all one ragged hole, and then I moved on to 200 yards.
I'm calling that a win for lazy load development.
I'm not sure how different the VLD targets are from the hybrids, but my recipe at least is:
140 gr Berger VLD
Alpha SRP
CCI BR-2
41.2 gr H4350
Seated out to mag length (rifle is a Howa with factory barrel, so no lands chasing for me)
I'm calling that a win for lazy load development.
I'm not sure how different the VLD targets are from the hybrids, but my recipe at least is:
140 gr Berger VLD
Alpha SRP
CCI BR-2
41.2 gr H4350
Seated out to mag length (rifle is a Howa with factory barrel, so no lands chasing for me)
I can second that. I started at 40.7 H4350
Current load 41.9gr, and no pressure signs up to ~43 if I recall correctly.*Obligatory this is not reloading advice disclaimer*
