6.5 Grendel more or less dead?

[XLR308]

They are not going with the 6.8 SPC, they are going with a 6.8 caliber, but not the spc. I would imagine that the case will be longer, likely fitting in an AR10 or something that splits the difference. It may or may not be based on the .30 rem, that would make too much sense.

What little info is available they seem to be referring to polymer cased ammo, and I'm not sure they would be ditching the AR15 platform for its bigger brother but like you said that would make to much sense.

Alot can and does change in the process of testing and procurement, somebody doesn't grease the right palms and back to the drawing board.

 

[BurnOut]

Re: 6.5G vs 6.8 SPC; if the intended use of the rifle is long range, then I don't think you'll find many people saying that the 6.8 is a better choice. In terms of short/intermediate range use, the 6.8 seems to have a modest edge, but it really wouldn't amount to much in practical use, I don't think.

I have a 20" heavy barreled Grendel (AR), and sometime back when I was looking into building a 16" hunting-oriented rig (again, AR platform), the difference between the two rounds with 120-130 gr projectiles out of that 16" barrel was negligible. Certainly not enough for me to be able to justify adding another cartridge to the stable (read: 6.8 SPC-specific magazines and dies) when I already have something so similar.

 

[Lonehill]

One has to understand every guns limitations when hunting and the 6.5G is no different. Understand your ft-lb of energy and shooter error including buck fever.
I went with mine this year but knew after 400 yds I needed to switch to my 6.5cm. Just depended on where I went is what I went with.
If your a reloader the Grendel won’t die any more than 260 rem or 26/28/30 Nosler. If your not on line store will always have ammo but your local store may stop, idk, depends on how the store sells their inventory.

6.8 will probably out sell the 6.5G I don’t doubt since the public seems to follow what the government uses like sheep vs what fits them best

Understanding my limitations? In this case, actually both cases, I made a perfect broadside shot on a mature buck, one at about 125yds and the other at about 40yds. Both were oblivious to my presence and neither were phased by my first shot. Both just kinda shrugged it off. At least I had the rest of the mag for some quick follow ups. As far as buck fever, that really isn't a factor for me. I worked as a professional whitetail guide for ten years and you can't imagine how many mature bucks I've seen drop. I live on deer meat.

 

[Lonehill]

Like I said initially, the main reason why I quit using the 6.5 Grendel on deer was it's lack of stopping power in MY experience using the cartridge. Thinking the first time was a fluke, I attempted a second year with the exact same results. One must understand that I wasn't taking 400 yd pot shots nor would I with a 6.5G. That's what I have a 7mm or a 257wby for. I believe in ethically dispatching of game, therefore I only use what I have absolute confidence in. That said, after reading your responses to this thread, I'm going to revive the upper and use a better bullet. I like the TTSX idea

 

[308pirate]

Whatever the Army does, be fully aware that its decision will be a giant compromise polluted by politics and lobbying.

Don't follow them and then brag.

 

[Nukes]

I was surprized [sic] how little material was left around the casehead. Anyone know if grendel bolts are known to be prone to failure?

Yes!

The two huge problems with 6.5 Grendel are bolt failures and mag feed failures.

I am on my 3rd 6.5 Grendel bolt. My two bolts that failed were both from Les Baer. Baer blamed the first bolt failure on my use of a suppressor, 300rds to failure. The 2nd Les Baer bolt failed after about 30 rounds of sub-maximal re-loads without a suppressor. My 3rd bolt is a "hard use" Alexander Arms bolt that has only a few hundred rounds on it, most with suppressor. Because of these problems I would not bet my life on the 6.5 Grendel. That said, I have laid in a supply of "hard use" (!!!) Alexander Arms and JP Precision bolts, but even hard use AA and JP bolts fail (and the reports are quickly mopped up by the Grendel forum fan boys—exactly as XLR308 stated)!

Mag feed failures are another problem, less but still a problem with even the steel Israeli mags (and, yes, the Grendel forum fan boys will deny that too).

All that said, I got bored shooting it 1200 yds on IPSC steel—too easy—a nice type of boredom.

 

[Nukes]

I wouldn't personally give up on it because of the poor performance you experienced on game with the SST bullet. The Hornady SST is notorious for being overly frangible in some calibers at certain velocities they behave more like a thin jacketed rapid expansion varmint bullet.
My personal choice and what I would recommend would be a mid to light weight bonded or monolithic expanding bullet like the TTSX run with plenty of velocity but sane pressures for the Grendel.
I think with that combination the Grendel has ample killing power for game up to the size of elk so long as you remain well within the expansion threshold for those types of bullets.

Consider the 130 gn Scirroco.

 

[j-huskey]

Yes!

The two huge problems with 6.5 Grendel are bolt failures and mag feed failures.

I am on my 3rd 6.5 Grendel bolt. My two bolts that failed were both from Les Baer. Baer blamed the first bolt failure on my use of a suppressor, 300rds to failure. The 2nd Les Baer bolt failed after about 30 rounds of sub-maximal re-loads without a suppressor. My 3rd bolt is a "hard use" Alexander Arms bolt that has only a few hundred rounds on it, most with suppressor. Because of these problems I would not bet my life on the 6.5 Grendel. That said, I have laid in a supply of "hard use" (!!!) Alexander Arms and JP Precision bolts, but even hard use AA and JP bolts fail (and the reports are quickly mopped up by the Grendel forum fan boys—exactly as XLR308 stated)!

Mag feed failures are another problem, less but still a problem with even the steel Israeli mags (and, yes, the Grendel forum fan boys will deny that too).

All that said, I got bored shooting it 1200 yds on IPSC steel—too easy—a nice type of boredom.

I haven't lost a bolt yet, two grendel's, both Alexander Arms bolts, probably 1200 rounds through one, 1500 through the other, night pigs over 5 years, all suppressed,
BUT...
Alexander Arms mags.... not so spiffy..
I forget the other two mfg mags I had, brownells was one im almost sure, but those mags sucked so bad....

Hung one on 550 cord and shot it....

 

[newguy2k3v2]

I hope not. I just finally built a 12" Grendel with a 1-6 razor and I'm grabbing it more and more for hog hunting where I might have to make a 200yd or longer shot where the 300blk starts to fall off.

I have a 18" barrel to get fitted for my MRP as well.

 

[MtnCreek]

I've got a jp enhanced bolt in a bootleg adj carrier that I hope to get installed in my first Grendel this week. More than I wanted to spend, but looking at Grendel bolt vs 556, it made the cost make sense for me. I was pondering swapping a long in the tooth woa barrel out of another rifle to Grendel, but may see how things go.

 

[wigwamitus]

I might qualify as a grendel "fan boi" per some of the comments here ... though for me ... like everything else ... there are trade-offs ... pros and cons ...
I got my 6.5G(18) in Dec 2015, so I've had it for 3 years ... for the first year, it had a Zeus Pro 100mm 4x 640(60) on top and got used strickly for hunting, hogs and yotes.

Then, I switched it to target shooting role for 2017 ...

Though I also used it off the tripod for coon, yotes and opossum around the coop and cattle ...

==
And this year 2018, strickly target shooting ..

==
I think of this 6.5G(18) as a "308 on a small frame" ... since the external ballistics matches my buddies .308WIN stoner when he is shooting 168gr and I am shooting 123gr. The main downside to me is the lack of breadth and depth of the factory ammo supply. I wanted to switch to FGM 130gr, and I've accumulated 4 cases (800 rds) but cannot find it anywhere now ... so I'm back to shooting the ELD-M only ... yes I have the 123 SST for hogs, but don't use that for anything else.

So, while I don't think the grendel is "dead" ... it might be one day if the Army adopts a new cartridge and we can buy guns and ammo in that new cartridge ... which I think would be a good thing. In the mean time, I will continue on with the 6.5G(18) ...

Oh, I did break a bolt after almost exactly 2 years ... and about 800 rds. But hindsight indicates I was over gassed (all shots suppressed) ... now that is fixed, I expect the next bolt to last longer.

 

[Srikaleak]

Well guess what folks! My Form 1 came in today! Now just gotta wait for my local guy to finish my 12" barrel. Any advice on optics? It'll be for carbine classes, precision shooting out to 500m, and North American game.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

Well guess what folks! My Form 1 came in today! Now just gotta wait for my local guy to finish my 12" barrel. Any advice on optics? It'll be for carbine classes, precision shooting out to 500m, and North American game.

I have a 1-6 razor on mine. Works well. Wish it was ffp or had a elevation turret like the mk6 1-6 though.

 

[Magnetic]

Razor 1-6, or XTR II 1-8 would be my choice.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

https://cmore.com/Item/C316242LTITJ1I
Locking turrets, zero stop, daylight bright dot, simple tree BDC, lighter than the Razor, comparable to it in all other aspects.
I've got a significant discount code if you're interested.

 

[backyardsniper]

I just built a new grendel with an 18" and I'm seriously considering a 12.5 in pistol Really digging the grendel so far

 

[Magnetic]

I just built a new grendel with an 18" and I'm seriously considering a 12.5 in pistol Really digging the grendel so far

PSA has this deal right now that is very tempting...

 

[Yondering]

Well guess what folks! My Form 1 came in today! Now just gotta wait for my local guy to finish my 12" barrel. Any advice on optics? It'll be for carbine classes, precision shooting out to 500m, and North American game.

For my 12" Grendel and pretty much the same application except longer distance, I'm using a 3-9x Leupold. A good 3-9x with mil/mil, clear glass, and generous eye relief works really well on one of these. I haven't bought into the latest 1-?x fad, although I've tried a few, and don't see that I'm giving up anything with the tried and true 3-9x.

 

[brazz04]

6 of the first 7 topics today on AR15.com Variants section are grendel questions...I'd say it's still alive...

 

[10ring1]

6 of the first 7 topics today on AR15.com Variants section are grendel questions...I'd say it's still alive...

View attachment 6977393

Yes. And the 6.5 Grendel boards are still very active with many new threads a day

 

[Lawless]

I read case less.

Yeah they are developing a caseless 6.8, probably will take years

 

[Yondering]

6 of the first 7 topics today on AR15.com Variants section are grendel questions...I'd say it's still alive...

Yeah I get a chuckle out of the guys trying to say the Grendel is dying off. Some of the 6.8 SPC fanboys really want that to be true as they've shown in this thread, but if anything, the Grendel has become more popular in the last few years. Factory ammo choices for it are pretty good, and there's a lot of bullets and brass available for handloaders. Even if it did dry up commercially, as long as 7.62x39 brass is available the Grendel will still be a viable round for handloaders.

The reason the OP can't sell his Grendel AR right now is because nobody's buying used ARs of any flavor very much right now. The market is flooded, and new guns are as cheap as they've ever been, so why buy someone's (probably overpriced) used rifle? Give it a few years and that might change, but that's the market right now...

 

[Lonehill]

Sure wouldn't call it overpriced. Premium components only. Had it for sell at a hell of a loss actually

 

[Yondering]

I don't know what your rifle is or how much you were selling it for, I was just explaining the current AR market. A rifle built with premium components two years ago would likely still be overpriced right now at half or even 1/3 what you paid for it; just the way the market is right now. I feel your pain, I'm in the same boat with a couple of $1000-$1500 ARs I don't use that just aren't worth selling right now because I'd have a hard time moving them at even $500-600.

The main point was that it's not a reflection on the Grendel's popularity right now, it's just a reflection of a flooded AR market. That's a good thing for us as AR buyers, but bad for those of us who want to sell our used stuff.

 

[Lonehill]

I don't know what your rifle is or how much you were selling it for, I was just explaining the current AR market. A rifle built with premium components two years ago would likely still be overpriced right now at half or even 1/3 what you paid for it; just the way the market is right now. I feel your pain, I'm in the same boat with a couple of $1000-$1500 ARs I don't use that just aren't worth selling right now because I'd have a hard time moving them at even $500-600.

The main point was that it's not a reflection on the Grendel's popularity right now, it's just a reflection of a flooded AR market. That's a good thing for us as AR buyers, but bad for those of us who want to sell our used stuff.

Exactly. Used AR market is super soft. Sadly, the biggest market influencers are politics and mass shootings. A day will come when AR's go back up in value, let's just pray the libtards stay out of power. I will be keeping my AR's forever vs. handing it over. At least they have no clue how many uppers are out there. Second hand lowers are your friend

 

[Raffica762]

6.5 Grendel is by far my favorite rd in the AR standard chassis

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Does anyone have any experience with the CMMG "Anvil" rifle in 6.5 Grendel? The idea of a mid-sized AR (between an AR15 and an AR10) is interesting, and I'll bet it would make for a soft shooting rifle while also solving the bolt durability issues.

Not sure the juice is worth the squeeze, but it would be interesting to play around with one a bit to find out.

 

[DJL2]

You’re right about how easy it is to get into the AR game right now...and, consequently, how hard it is to unload kit you don’t want anymore. I find myself wondering what it would take to get out of my Grendel from time to time. I don’t need more ammo and components in a caliber I no longer own, though. Plus, I’m a bit of a 6.5 fan.

I have almost 1000 rds of the Wolf I’ll likely never shoot...I didn’t assemble a 6.5 G to just burn ammo. Owing to the fact that it’s both berdan primed and undersized, it isn’t good for much else. Caveat emptor, should have done my research before letting that price sell me.

On th flip side, 123 grain ELD-M is 1 to 1.25 MOA ammo in my rifle. It would be a good deal if it shot about twice as well. The SST is worse. That’s frustrating because I have several boxes of the stuff, since it is about the only ammo I seem to run across at that price point or close to it. I’ve got an 18 inch tube, see about 2475 FPS, and was thinking about 107/108 g stuff if I can find it loaded. The 123g stuff is a 900m round in my rifle, figure the 108g would be the same and maybe a little softer and flatter up close.

I’ve got a 6.8 SPC upper with zero rounds through it - but my Dad got bit by the 6.8 bug and he’s pushing me hard to reload it for him. Next time out, I might see if I actually put together a working upper and if it likes the SST any better.

 

[tbugher62]

Several years back I got really interested in the 6.5 Grendel. It intrigued me. Always looking for something harder hitting. Already had an AR so why not build an upper right? So, after browsing the 6.5 Grendel forum awhile I built one, a nice one. Shoots great, shot a couple bucks, filled a freezer with doe meat, had a little fun shooting some steel, etc. Now it's been sitting in the safe and I just prefer a bolt gun for hunting. I go to sell it and can't get rid of it. I go look on the Grendel forum where I hadn't looked in a long time and it seems everyone is dumping them left and right. Did it lose some favor with the intro of the 6.5 CM? Market does seem flooded with the cheaper builds. So what happened? You can almost hear the crickets chirping over there.

Yeap,on the Gredel Forum, they all say the same thing that they got caught up in the niche market,and now want to sell,at least a hundred plus for sale there.

 

[Srikaleak]

Yup, 6.5 Grendel, while super viable is just too expensive to plink with which is 100% of my shooting. That is why I am rebarreling my SBR in .223. I am going to keep the barrel and bolt though, just in case I do plan to go hog hunting but I'm down to use my AR10 for that.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Just buy bulk factory 2nd bullets and suddenly 6.5G is pretty affordable to shoot.

 

[Strykervet]

Why would the best load for a popular platform just die?

I guess you can count me in with Wigwam as a fanboi too. I only have the two, an SBR and a tack driving 20", but that 20" is the best rifle I own. I like .300BLK and I even have Beowulf, which I may agree that it gave up it's position to .458 SOCOM. But I'd use either so little I'll just stick with the Beowulf I have. It was a gift anyway.

I figure 6.8 will die... It's not half the round the Grendel is. I bet Valkyrie will be a flash in the pan too. But these days it doesn't seem to matter too much, seems like once it makes SAAMI specs and goes in print that someone keeps the lathes turning somewhere. Not like in the past when you only had so many expensive screw machines to make brass with.

 

[hlee]

Why? Because most of the people buying the most popular rifle platform (AR15) just want to hose a dirt berm with mag dumps. That's expensive with the Grendel. I don't know if I'm a fanboy, but I do have 2, and they are both stellar rifles. Ammo is kind of expensive and not really easy to find. Nothing at Walmart, for example, and Academy is hit and miss as well. Primary Arms carries it, but its nearly $1 per round- though match grade. You can load it for about 1/2 that, but its not 223/5.56 cheap. Sure, you can get Wolf for around $0.30 per round, but I'm not shooting steel cased "bullet hose" ammo through my JP barrels. Lighter and handier than an AR10 in 308, more fun to shoot than a bolt gun, and plenty good medicine for deer sized game out to reasonable ranges, the Grendel checks a lot of boxes for me. But, if I were ever to lose my mind and decide to turn money into noise, a dollar goes further with a 223...

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Nosler 123gr CC's 2nds, 8lb of CFE223, CCI450's and assuming an existing brass stockpile:

$310-330 per 1k depending on a few price/powder variables is pretty freaking cheap. Most people pay that or more for 223 blasting ammo...

 

[Snuby642]

Saw a show on TV about the plastic cased ammo.

I find it disturbing nothing to reload.
The mfg's will have you by the base of your snarklys after they flood the market with the new guns.

Kind of like printers and ink.

Beware of that.

Back to 6.5g was considering it for my next upper or a bolt gun.
Old and getting recoil sensitive but want to blast all afternoon.
Getting a want for range and accuracy performance that 223 won't provide.

Having second thoughts.

 

[Snuby642]

Your cost calculation did not have brass included I see.

I got 400 plus rounds of 223, and about 500 rounds of free range brass mixed last week.

Not 1 round of 6.5g

Edit this was on rifle range on a Thursday.

 

[1500varmint]

Your cost calculation did not have brass included I see.

I got 400 plus rounds of 223, and about 500 rounds of free range brass mixed last week.

Not 1 round of 6.5g

Edit this was on rifle range on a Thursday.

For what it's worth, you can resize 7.62x39mm brass and make Grendel cases...

 

[bburnham]

..., post: 7583013, member: 126276"]
For what it's worth, you can resize 7.62x39mm brass and make Grendel cases...
[/QUOTE]
I just saw this thread. Interesting points. I have been shooting a 20" Grendel for about 7 y. Probably have about 1200 rounds on it. Used mainly for long range steel out to 800 y or so. I have had no issues with an Alexander Arms bolt, shooting all unsuppressed, 123 scenars and 123 smks. May start bothering yotes with it. I just had a 12 " with pistol brace, built for me by a hide member(LRRP52), who knows a thing or 2 about Grendels. Just started load development. Appears that 107 smks will give me around 2460 fps. I have the new NX8, which seems about perfect. Am shooting it with TB Ultra 7

 

[hitman]

I love my Grendel- it is the most accurate AR I own actually. The only down side is the limited mags, but there is a company coming out with some new ones that look promising.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

The only down side is the limited mags, but there is a company coming out with some new ones that look promising.

Do tell.

 

[Snuby642]

I thought magpul had some?
Checked thier site and couldn't find.

 

[Srikaleak]

Magpul does not. Something about thinning out the polymer to fit 6.5 Grendel cartridges leading to much quicker wear/cracks.

 

[hitman]

2 A Armament came out with some polymer ones at shot show but the are not out yet. I just checked their web site. I think it is only a ten rd mag though at first. But I would like a great 10rd mag anyway for what I use mine for.

 

[hlee]

The elander mags from Alexander arms are perfectly functional 17 and 22 round mags. ASC 10 rounders are good too.

 

[hitman]

I have the Elander and they seem well made but I have not used it all that much yet. I know a lot of guys complain that you need to tweak the feed lips etc. but they do seem solid.

 

[MtnCreek]

I have about 400 rds through 3 ELander 17rd mags. No issues so far. I only load to 15 rds because they start to get a little tight and was worried about pressure on the lips.

 

[Rebels010]

The AR market is soft. The 6.5 grendel is far from dead.

 

[Cerwinski]

The AR market is soft. The 6.5 grendel is far from dead.

This. My favorite AR is my Grendel. Also my most accurate.

Shot these the other day in horrible conditions. After a little tweaking I think I could get them to 1/2 MOA.

 

[hitman]

Nice! What load are you using?

 

[cjgemm]

not an AR, but should be fun build non the less...

AKM 6.5