6.5 Grendel Upper Recommendations - Build or Buy?

[SMTGWKD]

I've been looking to complement my 6.5 Creedmoor bolt rifles with a lightweight, semi-automatic solution that I can use for out-of-state hog/deer/other hunts so I don't need to fiddle with my 300 Blackout SBR notices across state lines. I had settled on building a Carbon Fiber AR10 for a 6 lb Creedmoor solution, but my buddy has a 6.5 Grendel that rejuvenated my desire for one to fit this role - and apparently for MUCH less than the $2600 or so it would take to build the AR10.

With that in mind, my goals are as follows:

Weight - total weight maximum of 6.5 lbs (using my Daniel Defense or Noveske Lowers which weigh about 2 lbs, 10 oz) or 3.85 lbs for a complete upper
Length - will be weight dependent, but perhaps a carbon fiber solution can net some gains here. I will be shooting 99% suppressed, so 16" is likely ideal, unless some of you state that there is a reason to go to 18" or 20"
Accuracy - sub MOA is the requirement. Doesn't need to be a literal tack-driver - just have consistent groups from .5 MOA to .7 MOA with factory ammunition.
Budget - really don't have one. Just looking to get the best value for the dollar paid.

Please chime in with either build components you've had experience with OR complete uppers that you would recommend as I'm fine with building or buying complete.

Also, please let me know the ideal length you've used and the accurate distances you've accomplished with that barrel length. I currently shoot my DDM4V11 (16") 5.56 out to 982 yards with surprisingly consistent hits on a 20" plate using 75gr BTHP and Varget so I really want this 6.5 to accomplish the same task with more retained energy, etc.

Thanks so much!

 

[Atlas11B]

I have an aero precision m4e1 sniper gray set that I put a Christensen arms 20" carbon fiber barrel in with a CMC trigger and run a silencerco Omega. I shoot .5-.75 MOA all day long with it and have taken it out to 850 yards on an ipsc steel silhouette got a second round hit then 4 out of the next 5 shooting 123 AMAX factory ammo. This gun blows my mind. I didn't go cheap on the build and it shows in the accuracy. Highly recommend the Christensen carbon barrel and at 419$ it's cheaper than a lot of other brands. Also I'm using the magpul PRS stock which is heavy but amazing on a precision gasser, and I'm running a nightforce SHV 4-14 F1 MIL-R

 

[SMTGWKD]

I have an aero precision m4e1 sniper gray set that I put a Christensen arms 20" carbon fiber barrel in with a CMC trigger and run a silencerco Omega. I shoot .5-.75 MOA all day long with it and have taken it out to 850 yards on an ipsc steel silhouette got a second round hit then 4 out of the next 5 shooting 123 AMAX factory ammo. This gun blows my mind. I didn't go cheap on the build and it shows in the accuracy. Highly recommend the Christensen carbon barrel and at 419$ it's cheaper than a lot of other brands. Also I'm using the magpul PRS stock which is heavy but amazing on a precision gasser, and I'm running a nightforce SHV 4-14 F1 MIL-R

Great input!!! I have two Silencerco Omegas and love them. I was also planning to run the 20" Christensen Arms barrel on the AR10 Creedmoor build (with 2A upper/lower/handguard/etc) before considering a 6.5 Grendel instead. Which bolt, upper, BCG, and handguard did you settle on?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Look into the Odin Works 16" light Grendel barrel. I've been hearing good things about it and I don't think you'll save much more weight paying more for carbon fiber.

 

[Atlas11B]

The upper and handguard are aero precision as the m4e1 is all one set and I got the sniper gray special they had. I got the JP bolt and I can not remember what brand BCG I got but it's NiB so runs smooth and cleans easy. All of my shooting with it has been off the atlas bipod either from the prone or off a bench and when I was ringing steel at 850 it was off a wobbly plastic table. I am a huge fan of the 6.5 grendel round as it has far exceeded my expectations. I built the gun just for coyote/varmint hunts out to 600 max but I would feel comfortable shooting a yote out to 800 after seeing how it performed at 850. The Christensen barrel is amazing, I left it direct thread with the omega so it only adds about 4.5 inches when it's suppressed

 

[Atlas11B]

Look into the Odin Works 16" light Grendel barrel. I've been hearing good things about it and I don't think you'll save much more weight paying more for carbon fiber.

After seeing how my grendel performed my dad had me build him one but wanted to stay a little cheaper and we went with the Odin 18" barrel. It's an MOA gun but it really doesn't compare with the groups my build with the Christensen is putting out. Though there are factors like trigger and stock that could add to that.

 

[SMTGWKD]

Look into the Odin Works 16" light Grendel barrel. I've been hearing good things about it and I don't think you'll save much more weight paying more for carbon fiber.

Interesting you should mention this - I was looking hard at the following upper setup... DS Arms AR15 Match Series 6.5 Grendel Upper with 16" Ultra Lite SS Barrel

Do you or anyone close to you have any accuracy reports out to extended range?

 

[SMTGWKD]

After seeing how my grendel performed my dad had me build him one but wanted to stay a little cheaper and we went with the Odin 18" barrel. It's an MOA gun but it really doesn't compare with the groups my build with the Christensen is putting out. Though there are factors like trigger and stock that could add to that.

Thanks for this insight - my Daniel Defense prints .5" groups consitently in .223 so I really don't want the 6.5 Grendel to be a slouch comparatively! Especially since its role is to reach out to distance accurately...

I just looked into the Christensen weights of the 18" and 20" barrels and there is only a 1.5 ounce difference between the two. I wonder if the added velocity of the 20" is worth the trade off in length with a suppressor attached...

 

[SMTGWKD]

The other barrel I'm looking at is the BSF - has vents in the CF to dissipate heat. I've heard that fairly dramatic POI shift can occur with the CF barrels but have no experience - interested in first-hand insight...

 

[Atlas11B]

Thanks for this insight - my Daniel Defense prints .5" groups consitently in .223 so I really don't want the 6.5 Grendel to be a slouch comparatively! Especially since its role is to reach out to distance accurately...

I just looked into the Christensen weights of the 18" and 20" barrels and there is only a 1.5 ounce difference between the two. I wonder if the added velocity of the 20" is worth the trade off in length with a suppressor attached...

Not sure about the Christensen 18" but a friend of mine has (I'm not sure the brand) an 18" ss barrel on his and he was dinging the steel at 850 as well so if length is an issue, I'm sure the 18" will perform as well

 

[SMTGWKD]

Not sure about the Christensen 18" but a friend of mine has (I'm not sure the brand) an 18" ss barrel on his and he was dinging the steel at 850 as well so if length is an issue, I'm sure the 18" will perform as well

Resolved - either 16" or 18" for the win. Just looked at barrel weight again and the Christensen 18" is only 4 ounces heavier than the Odin Works 16" ultralight barrel. In my research Christensen should be reliably sub MOA whereas the Odin barrel has a 1.5 MOA guarantee with most groups coming in at just over 1 MOA (chatted with some techs). Sounds like the extra couple hundred bucks is absolutely worth it.

That said - would you recommend an adjustable gas block for this application? I've been thinking of adding one to my MK18 but haven't "pulled the trigger" yet.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I wouldn't build any AR without an AGB.

 

[SMTGWKD]

I wouldn't build any AR without an AGB.

That's what I'm thinking - which would you recommend for the Christensen/Midwest Industries Lightweight or Odin Works Lite rails? I've heard good things about the SLRs but Odin Works offers an affordable, low profile one as well that seems to get positive feedback...

 

[Atlas11B]

I am using the non adjustable one that came on my Christensen but would recommend an adjustable gas block as tonythetiger stated it can only help. I have a SLR on my 300 BLK and it's great and just bought a superlative arms AGB for another build and reading the reviews on the superlative used with suppressors they seem like a great option

 

[SMTGWKD]

To hit my target weight I need a barrel that weight 2 lbs or less. I'm not 100% sold on the carbon fiber options - any 16" barrel alternatives that can maintain a sub 1 MOA guarantee at that weight class? Odin Works guarantees 1.5 MOA with their ultralite but that's over 15" at 1000 yards and doesn't meet my spec.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

That's what I'm thinking - which would you recommend for the Christensen/Midwest Industries Lightweight or Odin Works Lite rails? I've heard good things about the SLRs but Odin Works offers an affordable, low profile one as well that seems to get positive feedback...

Depends on what kind of shooter you are. I work up a load for a rifle then set the GB and forget it. My SLR and Syrac blocks freeze up the same as the JoeBob's ones. I've gone as far as removing the GB's and soaking them in PB Blaster for a few days and the they're still permanently frozen. These days I just buy the cheap ones and consider them consumables if I ever make any drastic load changes.
If you're the kind of guy that likes cleaning his rifles every 100 rounds and will remember to run the adjustment screw in and out a few times to keep it free and you like tweaking loads all the time you might want an SLR or another higher end AGB that has clicks you can count while you're fiddling with adjustments.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

FWIW most of my Grendel experience is with two 18" JP light contour barrels. I can't remember the weight but it's reasonably light and they shoot awesome.

 

[MSTN]

I chose to build my own:

Now, this is a different format from what you want, weighing in at 8 pounds, 2 ounces, with a 20" barrel. But, I would suggest sticking with these same components for top results:

Bartlein 1x8 twist barrel from Craddock Precision
JP-6.5 Grendel bolt
E-Lander magazines

This rifle likes the Hornady 123 AMAX load, which leaves the muzzle at 2546 fps. At my current density altitude of 6900', I'm still 1250 fps at 1000 yards.

 

[SMTGWKD]

Beautiful Rifle! I'll check to see if there us a barrel profile there that meets my weight spec

 

[cypriss32]

Build mine on a major budget:
Black Hole 264 LBC, matched bolt, BCG, gas block and tube for $250.00 (had 100 rounds fired)

Aero M4E1 upper with 15" hand guard $150.00

Total build price minus the brake I have yet to get is $400.00

 

[Wyzrd]

I know there has been some sketchy reviews with this company, but I got a radical firearms 20" 6.5 G complete upper a while back, and the other day I was shooting factory 123 gr ELD-M and 120 gr MPT, both sub-moa and consistent hits on steel out to 700 yds (furthest at my range right now). It's a cheap 6.5G, but damn it shoots nicely! If I had the coin though, I'd spring for either a JP, or have one built at MSTN.

 

[SMTGWKD]

I love hearing reviews like this - my only issue with a 20" standard barrel is weight. To hit my weight requirements I either need a CF barrel or a lightweight 16" barrel. I don't think the lightweight barrel will give me the accuracy I want, but I'm not 100% sold on the accuracy of the CF barrels as I've yet to see any actual target/video/other experience except anecdotal.

That said, has anyone looked into or shot the new BSF barrels? Interesting idea using carbon fiber to tension the barrel and keep it rigid without actually wrapping it; however, proof is in the proverbial pudding and I'm interested in results. I talked to the owner of BSF for quite some time and he assured me he'd back up the barrel to legitimate sub-moa (we talked about .5-.6 moa as the expectation) or replace it till it is - but I reeeeeeeally hate being the Guinea Pig...

 

[C. Stevens]

MSR hunt has group buys. The 20" fluted satern barrel is 2lb 1oz. I have a 22" that shoots better than me. [video]http://www.msrhunt.com/post/spring-2017-20in-barrel-buy-8405575?pid=1294750453[/video]
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[C. Stevens]

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[C. Stevens]

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[C. Stevens]

I also recommend the DSArms enhanced upper. The top rail is milled as well as the brass deflector.

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[PhOnEpHrEaK]

I chose to build my own:

Now, this is a different format from what you want, weighing in at 8 pounds, 2 ounces, with a 20" barrel. But, I would suggest sticking with these same components for top results:

Bartlein 1x8 twist barrel from Craddock Precision
JP-6.5 Grendel bolt
E-Lander magazines

This rifle likes the Hornady 123 AMAX load, which leaves the muzzle at 2546 fps. At my current density altitude of 6900', I'm still 1250 fps at 1000 yards.

Can i get the full specs on this?

 

[MSTN]

Can i get the full specs on this?

Sure.

Seekins billet IRMT-3 upper, SBA-15 lower, and SP3R V3 15" rail

Geissele N/M trigger

Vltor A5 recoil system with A5-H1 buffer

Rifle length gas system with SLR titanium adjustable gas block

Young Mfg. hard chromed N/M bolt carrier DLC coated by Ionbond

Just about every titanium part made by V Seven: push pins, receiver end plate and tube nut, grip screw, buffer stop, ejection port door, safety selector, forward assist, etc.

Magpul STR

Sierra Precision Rifle grip

Thunder Beast 6.5mm Ultra 7 with TB CB brake

E-Lander mags

Nightforce 4-14x42 ATACR F1

Spuhr SP-4026 mount

LRA bipod

It's shooter, from the very first group on paper! Love the cartridge. Love the rifle.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

SMTGWKD tension/compression barrels are an interesting concept.. just like most things precision rifle-related, the Benchrest gentlemen tried it first(***though it may've been done way back when on some early machine guns..****)..many times combining it with water-cooling:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-world-record/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-and-rail-gun/

https://benchrest.com/showthread.php...ter-cooled-etc

Very cool stuff IMO! And I'd theorize theres some potential there for use in utilization on and tuning the accuracy of a heavy machine gun also!
As far as precision bolt rifles though, most seem to have come to the conclusion that it doesnt really add or subtract anything in the way of accuracy when one already is utilizing the very finest most consistent, straightest hand-lapped barrels and most consitent match grade hand made bullets, with actions or barrel blocks bedded/glued to perfection in the best stiffest stocks available....
NONETHELESS, its just downright cool as fuck!!! Atleast to my tinkerin mind..

 

[SMTGWKD]

SMTGWKD tension/compression barrels are an interesting concept.. just like most things precision rifle-related, the Benchrest gentlemen tried it first

I should have known!!! I think I've narrowed my decision down to the following - this would be my first naked barrel purchase and I want this rifle to be impressive at distance so I'm alright paying more for known accuracy so long as the rifle still hits the weight goal (barrel must no exceed 2 lbs and a couple ounces):

Satern Fluted 18" barrel
Faxon Match 18" Fluted barrel
Christensen Arms Carbon Fiber 18" barrel

All of the other options I've looked into are either too heavy, or not accurate enough. Odin Works comes to mind here - 1.5 MOA for the 16" and 1 MOA guarantee for the 18" but the 18" is too heavy and the 16" doesn't meet my accuracy requirements

Feel free to add any to this list that you think may fit the requirements...

 

[PhOnEpHrEaK]

I'll be putting together one with a Faxon this week/weekend

 

[SMTGWKD]

I'll be putting together one with a Faxon this week/weekend

Which iteration? I'm really interested in their match line 18" heavy fluted as it's listed weight is 1.98 lbs.

 

[PhOnEpHrEaK]

I grabbed the 20" match heavy flute. It is also listed at 1.98lbs.

 

[.30kal]

I'll be putting together one with a Faxon this week/weekend

Did you get it from JoeBobs? I'm still waiting for mine on order at Optics Planet. The weight on the 20" with flutes is perfect. Looking forwards to hearing how yours shoots.

 

[PhOnEpHrEaK]

I went with joe bob. Had the barrel in 3 days. John over at 8541 tactical is getting submoa with his. My smith is checking mine out Saturday to make sure I didn't screw anything up. Hopefully will get a basic zero and range report Saturday evening.

Even with the PRS, between the barrel and Aero products, this feels like the lightest centerfire that I have.

 

[SMTGWKD]

I grabbed the 20" match heavy flute. It is also listed at 1.98lbs.

I think I mis-typed and was looking at the 20" weight, not the 18". Both Optics Planet and JoeBobs list the 18" heavy fluted match barrel as "en route". Should shave another couple ounces off the weight.

Please report back after you shoot on Saturday as I think this will be my answer if it shoots as well as I hope. I also liked the Faxon upper receiver...

 

[.30kal]

I went with joe bob. Had the barrel in 3 days. John over at 8541 tactical is getting submoa with his. My smith is checking mine out Saturday to make sure I didn't screw anything up. Hopefully will get a basic zero and range report Saturday evening.

Even with the PRS, between the barrel and Aero products, this feels like the lightest centerfire that I have.

I used a coupon for OP, so I got a good price vs JoeBob. I'm getting antsy though. Looks like our builds will be almost identical as I'm using an Aero M4E upper as well. What's the total weight of the rifle?

 

[misplice]

I just did a budget build for 6.5 Grendel as a first AR build. Using BCA 18" barrel and bcg combo. Taking it out this weekend for the first time.

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[.30kal]

Well, this just happened.... http://www.larue.com/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper-kit If a 20" barrel was offered, I'd probably ditch my build at this point.

 

[SMTGWKD]

Well, this just happened.... http://www.larue.com/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper-kit If a 20" barrel was offered, I'd probably ditch my build at this point.

In theory I like it but it appears to require quite a few options I wouldn't need. Not friendly if you only want their barrel, receiver, and bolt...

 

[SMTGWKD]

Just spoke with Larue - 1 moa guarantee, but the complete upper alone weighs 5.16 lbs. Too dang heavy!

 

[.30kal]

Just spoke with Larue - 1 moa guarantee, but the complete upper alone weighs 5.16 lbs. Too dang heavy!

That's good info, especially since it only has a 13" rail If my calculations are correct using Aero's website, a M4E upper w/15" rail, BCG and the 20" Faxon fluted barrel comes out to just over 4lbs. So, 1 lb lighter with a longer barrel and rail. Larue's offer is still not a bad deal... I'd just sell the trigger furniture and buffer assembly, which probably makes the net cost just under $700.

 

[Strykervet]

Built a 20" using a custom Satern bbl. and didn't skimp on any of the parts. It's one bad motherfucker and the only one I have capable of .33MOA on a consistent basis. Good luck getting Satern to cut you a barrel though, I waited 3 years on mine, cancelled my last two orders after playing fuck-fuck games with them. They make great barrels, run a shitty business, but I guess he'd rather have his wife around than someone who can remember shit (she's nice as hell, just can't function in that role). IF they have one ready to go, by all means get it. DO NOT wait on one. Krieger or some other cut rifle mfg. will be MUCH quicker and despite Satern saying he can cut rifling to .001 just try getting him to cut one. Now if you order 500...

I have an 11.5" Grendel SBR I built with a Lijla. I expect it to do well given it's limitations. Again, well built. Noveske receivers, Geissele triggers, JP guts and BC, AA bolt (JP makes a new Grendel bolt now, I'd get that if I were to redo it) KAC tubes and parts. USO SR-8C on the 11.5 and I'll be using a USO B10 when I re-scope the 20" (Leupold wasn't good enough, the LR17 was too damn big).

 

[PhOnEpHrEaK]

I'll try to get mine on a scale soon.

 

[SMTGWKD]

Built a 20" using a custom Satern bbl. and didn't skimp on any of the parts. It's one bad motherfucker and the only one I have capable of .33MOA on a consistent basis.

What a funny read! These are the results I'm looking for. Mind sharing your load recipe for .33 groups with that setup?

 

[SMTGWKD]

I'll try to get mine on a scale soon.

Yes please....with pics of groups with 123gr Hornady ELD for the win!

 

[FCS]

Looks like the LaRue 6.5 Grendel shoots better than an MOA.

 

[PhOnEpHrEaK]

Yes please....with pics of groups with 123gr Hornady ELD for the win!

I'll be running the 123 eld black box through it tomorrow. Do you want the weight with or without optics/mount?

 

[SMTGWKD]

I'll be running the 123 eld black box through it tomorrow. Do you want the weight with or without optics/mount?

weight naked - no optics/ mounts. Thank you brother!

 

[SMTGWKD]

Looks like the LaRue 6.5 Grendel shoots better than an MOA.

They actually mentioned they were getting some "off the hook"groups with that ammo when I talked with them. That said, if I'm going to get a 5 lb upper it would be a 6.5 creedmoor ar10