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6.5 or 308 for long range gas gun?
- Thread starter Raffica762
- Start date
6.5. 308 works better than most people give it credit but the 6.5 still works better.
Unless you're shooting long distance, Over 800 yards, or recoil sensitive I'd go with the 308. Some reasons to consider is the cost of the brass and the preferred powder, H4350, is more difficult to get than the Varget I use in my AR's and my AIAW. But that's just my opinion. Many would disagree.
And I would not be one of them. Cost and bulk ammo availability are still important considerations. Especially like you said your not going to shoot past the normal effective range of .308.
Bulk match ammo is available for both and the same price for the most part. You can get the Hornady 140gr BTHP for $.75/round or less all the time. Federal gold medal 308 is usually $17-$18 per 20 but sometimes can be had for less.
For local availability Creedmoor has it beat by a landslide. All 4 walmarts near me have the Federal 130gr Berger match ammo on the shelf every time in in there, I've never seen a box of 308 match ammo in walmart. The local Cabelas stocks the 168gr gold medal 308 but that's all I've ever seen there for 308 match ammo. For Creedmoor they typically have all three flavors of the Hornady ELD match ammo, Hornady Precision Hunter, Federal Gold Medal, and Winchester match. They also typically have a half dozen types of hunting ammo there too.
At this point ammo selection would not be a concern for me for the Creedmoor.
I just recently went through this decision process and ended up initially with a .308 based on the following considerations:
1. Always wanted a .308 semi (have two 308 bolt action rifles)
2. Open sight configuration
3. Existing investments in .308 reloading equipment
4. 3k rounds of reloadable 308 surplus ammunition on hand
5. Cheaper surplus IMHO (already discussed)
6. Shooting distances of 700 yards or less.
Now i did spend the money to be "6.5 creedmoor ready" in that I spent a hefty amount on a JP FMOS BCG with HP bolt & firing pin. The OP may have a different set of criteria where the 6.5 makes more sense.
1. Always wanted a .308 semi (have two 308 bolt action rifles)
2. Open sight configuration
3. Existing investments in .308 reloading equipment
4. 3k rounds of reloadable 308 surplus ammunition on hand
5. Cheaper surplus IMHO (already discussed)
6. Shooting distances of 700 yards or less.
Now i did spend the money to be "6.5 creedmoor ready" in that I spent a hefty amount on a JP FMOS BCG with HP bolt & firing pin. The OP may have a different set of criteria where the 6.5 makes more sense.
6.5 all the way. Why would you want to shoot cheap ammo in your long range rifle? Get a cheap rifle for the cheap ammo or at least something that you're not trying to shoot 800 yards with (I have FALs for my surplus 7.62*51).
6.5 is barely more expensive when you compare similar quality box ammo or reloading so the trade-off is barrel life for ballistic coefficient and more MV. If you want to preserve your barrel and shoot long range, the last thing you want to do is eat away your barrel life with cheap ammo and close targets.
I'm an ok shot but my 6.5 Creedmoor helped me get out to 1,000 yards. .308 would fight you a lot more at 1,000.
6.5 is barely more expensive when you compare similar quality box ammo or reloading so the trade-off is barrel life for ballistic coefficient and more MV. If you want to preserve your barrel and shoot long range, the last thing you want to do is eat away your barrel life with cheap ammo and close targets.
I'm an ok shot but my 6.5 Creedmoor helped me get out to 1,000 yards. .308 would fight you a lot more at 1,000.
One more option if you reload is TAC 6 from ARP. It's a .224 Valkyrie wildcat necked up to 6mm.
You'll save some money right away because it fits in an AR15.
I bought a bunch of "blemished" 105 grain RDF bullets for about $0.16 each delivered with a Memorial Day discount. Powder is $0.08-10 and a primer is about $0.04. Lets call it $0.30 a shot because I have a 6.8 SPC and have been making once fired brass.
In a 6.5 Creedmoor, a 147 grain ELD-M costs about $0.34, powder is $0.12-15 and the primer is the same which adds up to $0.50+ a shot.
That TAC 6 should get me out to 1,000 also, not quite as good as 6.5 Creedmoor but still better ballistics than .308.
I'm building my upper with an Aero M4E1 enhanced upper receiver/handguard combo, a LWRC bolt, Toolcraft carrier and Radian charging handle. I'm in it for about $700 and I already have a couple lowers I'll use it on.
A 6.5 Creedmoor with a similar quality barrel will cost a bit more for the upper but if you have to buy a lower, that's another $350+ if you want something with a nice trigger, comfortable pistol grip and decent stock.
You'll save some money right away because it fits in an AR15.
I bought a bunch of "blemished" 105 grain RDF bullets for about $0.16 each delivered with a Memorial Day discount. Powder is $0.08-10 and a primer is about $0.04. Lets call it $0.30 a shot because I have a 6.8 SPC and have been making once fired brass.
In a 6.5 Creedmoor, a 147 grain ELD-M costs about $0.34, powder is $0.12-15 and the primer is the same which adds up to $0.50+ a shot.
That TAC 6 should get me out to 1,000 also, not quite as good as 6.5 Creedmoor but still better ballistics than .308.
I'm building my upper with an Aero M4E1 enhanced upper receiver/handguard combo, a LWRC bolt, Toolcraft carrier and Radian charging handle. I'm in it for about $700 and I already have a couple lowers I'll use it on.
A 6.5 Creedmoor with a similar quality barrel will cost a bit more for the upper but if you have to buy a lower, that's another $350+ if you want something with a nice trigger, comfortable pistol grip and decent stock.
Ultimately, you have to do what your gut wants you to do if you want to be happy, but I have yet to hear someone say that they wish they hadn't bought that 6.5 and had a .308 semi instead for long range shooting. Now, if you already have a 6.5 or similar caliber in a bolt for long range then get whatever feels right for your semi, but if you do not have a LR rifle of any sort yet, you will be much happier with a 6.5 variety. Skip the wildcats and just move forward.
So far, the only person to answer the OP with the correct answers has been redneckbmxer. If you do not want to take our opinions as valid then know that Frank Galli, HMFIC here on the Hide said the exact same thing in one of his video articles last year.
That said, my only large frame AR is in .308, but I have a few other bolts that get me my long range fix just fine. To be fair, it was purchased in 2012, before 6.5 creed took off and was readily available.
So far, the only person to answer the OP with the correct answers has been redneckbmxer. If you do not want to take our opinions as valid then know that Frank Galli, HMFIC here on the Hide said the exact same thing in one of his video articles last year.
That said, my only large frame AR is in .308, but I have a few other bolts that get me my long range fix just fine. To be fair, it was purchased in 2012, before 6.5 creed took off and was readily available.
Unless I misread the OP's question, asked for "information and thoughts". Collectively, this group of respondents did that. Those opinions that don't align with Lash & Redneckbmxer are not invalid given there was no with no specific reason stated for his indecision. Also, there was no definition of what "long range" means in this case.
Here are my unfounded opinions...
If you want a rifle to shoot and have fun, close your eyes and pick one. Any rifle that goes bang everything time will be fun to shoot. Taking a rifle out in stiff wind and trying to shoot small targets at long range (whatever that means to you) will be fun, regardless of caliber. And, hitting a small target at long range when there is a real possibility that you will not can be even more fun. But, if you plan to compete- or think you might even want to compete- then get the 6.5 Creedmoor. Less drift and less drop means more hits when the wind and range is less uncertain. More hits in competition- even a friendly competition- is more fun than more misses. While I do not enjoy blowing money on ammunition, cheap ammunition is not really a concern of mine when considering a precision rifle. It all costs money.
The above notwithstanding, I bought an LR308 in 2011, and I'm not certain the 6.5 had really taken off yet. It shoots very well and I have not considered rebarreling it, although I have considered building a 6.5 Creedmoor upper for it. I am sufficiently invested in 308 ammunition and reloading that I don't foresee myself giving up on the 308 win, but I have a 6.5 Creedmoor bolt action rifle that I have been using for local competition.
If you want a rifle to shoot and have fun, close your eyes and pick one. Any rifle that goes bang everything time will be fun to shoot. Taking a rifle out in stiff wind and trying to shoot small targets at long range (whatever that means to you) will be fun, regardless of caliber. And, hitting a small target at long range when there is a real possibility that you will not can be even more fun. But, if you plan to compete- or think you might even want to compete- then get the 6.5 Creedmoor. Less drift and less drop means more hits when the wind and range is less uncertain. More hits in competition- even a friendly competition- is more fun than more misses. While I do not enjoy blowing money on ammunition, cheap ammunition is not really a concern of mine when considering a precision rifle. It all costs money.
The above notwithstanding, I bought an LR308 in 2011, and I'm not certain the 6.5 had really taken off yet. It shoots very well and I have not considered rebarreling it, although I have considered building a 6.5 Creedmoor upper for it. I am sufficiently invested in 308 ammunition and reloading that I don't foresee myself giving up on the 308 win, but I have a 6.5 Creedmoor bolt action rifle that I have been using for local competition.
I didn't read through every post I just skimmed through it, but in case nobody else is thought to bring this up. The 308 is friendly on Sort Barrels 16"-18" , the 6.5CM, not so much.
If it were me I'd go 22" +2 6.5CM, better ballistics all around and less recoil, for faster follow-up.
If it were me I'd go 22" +2 6.5CM, better ballistics all around and less recoil, for faster follow-up.
Been down that road Raff, I had a project with a long thread on the old scout site about my journey to building a long range lightweight AR-10 rifle. It started out as a 308 because I had a 308 bolt gun and already had all the reloading equipment, etc. etc. It was a bear to get that gun to shoot tight groups and after trying everything I could, I sent it to the barrel manufacturer who tried their darndest to get it to shoot, their barrel shot great in other rifles, but not mine for whatever reason. Then I ask if they could do an experiment, I said "can you put one of your 6.5 Creedmoor barrels on it and see if anything changes?" they agreed and soon I got a picture back of a tiny little group so I swapped the 308 and never looked back. Now, hear me out, this is my story and there are plenty of guys on the forum who've gotten their AR-10's to shoot beautifully, but I'll tell you this, I have fallen in love with 6.5 Creedmoor 
, it is so much easier to shoot better than with 308, again, I'm not saying you can't with 308 but 308 will definitely work your fundamentals to the bone. I am now about to embark on another "journey" and this one building a "budget" AR-10 6.5CM that will shoot accurately (1 moa or better). Something else to consider, get a "good" 6.5Creedmoor barrel and also buy a "cheap" 308 barrel, it takes all of 10 minutes (or less once you get it down) to swap a barrel if you have the gas block and tube already setup on each and then you have the best of both worlds... just a thought.
, it is so much easier to shoot better than with 308, again, I'm not saying you can't with 308 but 308 will definitely work your fundamentals to the bone. I am now about to embark on another "journey" and this one building a "budget" AR-10 6.5CM that will shoot accurately (1 moa or better). Something else to consider, get a "good" 6.5Creedmoor barrel and also buy a "cheap" 308 barrel, it takes all of 10 minutes (or less once you get it down) to swap a barrel if you have the gas block and tube already setup on each and then you have the best of both worlds... just a thought.
