6.5 SAUM: Whats the big deal

[Jig Stick]

From what I can gather, the 6.5 SAUM is very similar in ballistics to the 7 WSM. Both push 140g projectiles at similar velocity. Barrel life seems to be comparable. Besides a small difference in BC on projectiles, Im not sure what all the "hoopla" is about the 6.5 SAUM. For example, the BC of a Berger Hunting 6.5 140g VLD is 0.612, while the 140g 7mm is 0.510. How many shooters out there could really capitalize on this small difference? Am I missing something? Im thinking of a new build, and these two calibers have me intrigued. One think I like is the availability of a "decent" selection of factory 7wsm bullets…which may be useful on a hunting trip if bullets get misplaced or lost. Please educate me so I can make a good decision

 

[Randoman5]

I'm very far from an expert on the subject, but I think I've read most of the posts about it. I believe the big appeal is that it operates at relatively low pressures for its ballistic capability and thus brass and barrels last quite a bit longer than the WSM rounds. Although I've also considered the possibility that since the round can't really be run in an AI rifle or DTA SRS GAP was pushing it because they thought they'd sell more rifles.

 

[Jig Stick]

Strictly for hunting purposes for me, so running it in an AI is a non issue. Ive even considered throwing the ole 270win in the mix here. But the differences in BC are more pronounced. But yet again, me, personally, could probably shoot a 270 just as good as a 6.5 SAUM or 7 WSM. I don't think I could capitalize on the better BC's to actually notice a difference in a hunting scenario

 

[Early Cuyler]

I'm very far from an expert on the subject, but I think I've read most of the posts about it. I believe the big appeal is that it operates at relatively low pressures for its ballistic capability and thus brass and barrels last quite a bit longer than the WSM rounds. Although I've also considered the possibility that since the round can't really be run in an AI rifle or DTA SRS GAP was pushing it because they thought they'd sell more rifles.

Barrel life of over 2-3000rds while slinging 140gr hybrids over 3000fps gives me a chubby. Also I believe a couple of guys in the DTA thread have 6.5 SAUM barrels spun up and are enjoying the round!

 

[SharpsNitro]

People are running this round in the DTA as already mentioned, I'll be joining them as soon as my new barrel is done. Why is a ~20% improvement in BC "small"?

 

[BoilerUP]

the BC of a Berger Hunting 6.5 140g VLD is 0.612, while the 140g 7mm is 0.510. How many shooters out there could really capitalize on this small difference?

That's a HUGE difference in ballistic coefficient.

 

[Jig Stick]

Ok maybe my terminology isn't the best. What I am getting at is how many of us can actually shoot well enough for that difference to really matter? I could see maybe in the bench rest game it could matter, but for hunting and "practical" types of shooting, does that difference really matter? Reading the wind makes most of the difference in my opinion. Bullet drop can be dialed into the scope. Im trying to talk myself into the 6.5 SAUM, but nothing is "jumping out" at me.

 

[hognuts]

I run one for hunting and my primary reason for building it was because I already had an Elite Iron Suppressor for a 6.5 (ran it on my Creedmoor) I shot a spike bull up in Montana at 650 yards with my Creedmoor, the first round went right behind the shoulder and was a "through and through" shot and jellied the liver, the elk didn't drop right away and turned quartering towards me. I sent another and hit him directly in the shoulder and dropped him. Didn't think too much of it at the time. When I was skinning it I found that the second round that hit him in the shoulder (in the dense muscle tissue of the shoulder) had only penetrated about 1-1 1/2". If that had been my first shot he probably would have gotten away wounded. I wanted something with a little more gas behind it, seemed like I was pushing the limits of what the Creedmoor could do at that distance on an elk size animal.

I like how "flat shooting" the SAUM is. I am still skeptical on the barrel life claims that have been made, I have just over 800 rounds through mine and I love it, remains to be seen how many "good rounds" I get through it, but I am running the 130 Berger HVLD's and they are around 3200-3250. (I punched a hole through one of my AR 500 targets at 100 yards with it, sent 5 just dicking around, 4 of them pitted it pretty good, one punched a .264" in my steel! oops I have shot a .270 for hunting as well and there is nothing wrong with that rifle for putting down game, but it is not even in the same zip code as a 6.5 SAUM.

If you are looking for an excuse to get one, one of my favorite things about it in a hunting application, even if you have a minor ranging error, chances are you are still going to be able to put one in the kill zone if you are in the ballpark on range.

I head shot a mule deer at 560 yards in the Rubies last year at a pretty severe angle (suppressed ) Wouldn't have even tried that shot with my trusty old .270, shot a 334 bull in the Bridger Tetons with it last fall 320 yards, bull was running up a ridge away from me, put one in his spine (kind of far back, was "ambushing" him as he ran through a clearing), that round stopped him then put one between the shoulders about 1/2" to the right of his spine on second shot.




Bull from Bridger Tetons last fall. 320 yards 6.5 SAUM.


Head shot on Mule deer in Ruby Mountains in Nevada last fall. 560 yards, 6.5 SAUM


Pics from the Wyoming hunt last fall. Good luck to you all this fall, whichever rifle you have in your hands!

 

[BoilerUP]

Assuming each bullet at 3000fps, the 6.5mm 140 has about 6" less wind drift than the 7mm 140gr at 650 yards...and at 1000 yards, 17" less drift.

That's not insignificant in the least, but may or may not be beneficial for YOUR intended use with the rifle.

 

[Rhyno]

Ok maybe my terminology isn't the best. What I am getting at is how many of us can actually shoot well enough for that difference to really matter? I could see maybe in the bench rest game it could matter, but for hunting and "practical" types of shooting, does that difference really matter? Reading the wind makes most of the difference in my opinion. Bullet drop can be dialed into the scope. Im trying to talk myself into the 6.5 SAUM, but nothing is "jumping out" at me.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If you're a good shot (rather wind caller) the BC wouldn't matter, but if your bad then it would.

 

[steve123]

Ok maybe my terminology isn't the best. What I am getting at is how many of us can actually shoot well enough for that difference to really matter? I could see maybe in the bench rest game it could matter, but for hunting and "practical" types of shooting, does that difference really matter? Reading the wind makes most of the difference in my opinion. Bullet drop can be dialed into the scope. Im trying to talk myself into the 6.5 SAUM, but nothing is "jumping out" at me.

I think that's the whole point... Practically speaking, when concerning wind with those 7mm 140's and 6.5 with same weight bullet, we need every advantage in the wind we can get.

7mm with 168's or 180's - now the wind drift is equalized and more energy on the animal.

For me, for shooting steel and competition, I like the lower recoil, flat trajectory and lesser wind drift of the 6.5 Saum. This compared to the 7mmRM with 176 gr at 3040 fps.

 

[MoBoost]

6.5 SAUM falls in very specific niche - 1000 yards, 1000 ft/lb, least recoil and most barrel life. It is a very clever compromise.
Of course other cartridges fall into other niches for better or worse - to outwit 6.5SAUM you'll have to come-up with a difference premise

 

[KYS]

From what I can gather, the 6.5 SAUM is very similar in ballistics to the 7 WSM. Both push 140g projectiles at similar velocity. Barrel life seems to be comparable. Besides a small difference in BC on projectiles, Im not sure what all the "hoopla" is about the 6.5 SAUM. For example, the BC of a Berger Hunting 6.5 140g VLD is 0.612, while the 140g 7mm is 0.510. How many shooters out there could really capitalize on this small difference? Am I missing something? Im thinking of a new build, and these two calibers have me intrigued. One think I like is the availability of a "decent" selection of factory 7wsm bullets…which may be useful on a hunting trip if bullets get misplaced or lost. Please educate me so I can make a good decision

Why would you limit yourself to a 140gr bullet in a 7WSM? That monster is meant to sling the 180gr pills with efficiency! There are enough difference to make me shoot the SAUM over the WSM 9 times out of 10. Its softer shooting and barrel life is slighter better.

Oh and have fun finding brass for the 7WSM! Winchester has put its production on hold until further notice.

 

[KYS]

What Elite iron can are you running on your 6.5 SAUM?

 

[hognuts]

It is their Delta suppressor. Came out of their custom shop chambered for 6.5.

I asked them before I ran it because of the higher muzzle velocities/pressures. My understanding is that it's their .223 can "opened up" for 6.5. They gave me their blessing, and I haven't had any issues (accuracy or otherwise.)

 

[Roddd]

I think Boiler Up hit the nail on the head. The difference in BC is very significant and allows much more room for error when milling targets for distance or making wind calls in a timed event such as a match or when you're out hunting.

 

[hognuts]

I think Boiler Up hit the nail on the head. The difference in BC is very significant and allows much more room for error when milling targets for distance or making wind calls in a timed event such as a match or when you're out hunting.

Roger that. I will give you another example of this. My cousin missed a shot at a wolf last year in the Bridger Tetons with his 30/06. He couldn't get a range on them, so he ranged one of our horses and got 500 yards. (He figured the wolves were roughly the same distance). He held where he would have for 500 and shot over the top. (We walked it off after the fact and it was 300). If that same ranging error would have happened with the SAUM, that still would have been a dead wolf. (I would have likely dialed instead of held, but same result).

Granted the USO with the MOA Scale reticle and matching turrets also play into it, as he was using a duplex reticle on a cheap hunting scope/rifle combo, still a shot I have seen him make many times, those little things can become HUGE at the moment of truth.

 

[MoBoost]

Roger that. I will give you another example of this. My cousin missed a shot at a wolf last year in the Bridger Tetons with his 30/06. He couldn't get a range on them, so he ranged one of our horses and got 500 yards. (He figured the wolves were roughly the same distance). He held where he would have for 500 and shot over the top. (We walked it off after the fact and it was 300). If that same ranging error would have happened with the SAUM, that still would have been a dead wolf. (I would have likely dialed instead of held, but same result).

SAUM is not a laser ... 200 yard mistake would be a 3 foot miss either way. Sorry.

 

[KYS]

SAUM is not a laser ... 200 yard mistake would be a 3 foot miss either way. Sorry.

Better check your ballistics. Running a 130gr hunting bullet you would be .31 mils at 200 yards. a 300 yard shot would be .79 mils. That is under a half mil hold and depending on the size of the wolf that is just the difference in hitting him in the guts or spine if you hold behind his front shoulder.
The SAUM for what it is, is a laser. 5.92 mils to 1000 with the same 130gr bullet.

This is why it is quickly becoming a very popular hunting caliber.

 

[TimeWillTell]

Better check your ballistics. Running a 130gr hunting bullet you would be .31 mils at 200 yards. a 300 yard shot would be .79 mils. That is under a half mil hold and depending on the size of the wolf that is just the difference in hitting him in the guts or spine if you hold behind his front shoulder.
The SAUM for what it is, is a laser. 5.92 mils to 1000 with the same 130gr bullet.

This is why it is quickly becoming a very popular hunting caliber.

What velocity and elevation are you using to get 5.92 mil to 1000? Just curious. Thinking about building one but the number I have ran for here in OK are not coming up that impressive (though still very good, just not 5.92 good).

Thanks.

 

[hognuts]

My dope at 500 is 6.5 MOA, 3.5 MOA to 300 roughly a 9.387" error. Still a spine shot on one of those big bastards. Closest thing to a laser as I have ever shot!

 

[MoBoost]

Better check your ballistics. Running a 130gr hunting bullet you would be .31 mils at 200 yards. a 300 yard shot would be .79 mils. That is under a half mil hold and depending on the size of the wolf that is just the difference in hitting him in the guts or spine if you hold behind his front shoulder.
The SAUM for what it is, is a laser. 5.92 mils to 1000 with the same 130gr bullet.

This is why it is quickly becoming a very popular hunting caliber.

Except in the story it was a 500 yard hold .

 

[A10XRIFLE]

For those still worried about barrel life, My second barrel is now at 1800+ and still going strong. Pat's is over 2700 and hes still getting great accuracy but has dropped velocity his will be 3000 ish at rebarrel after this hunting season. My first barrel went 3400 ish and I won the SH cup with it just prior to re barrel. Results will very if guys hotrod it or rapid fire with it. but its a solid 2000+ barrel life for sure!!

 

[KYS]

Except in the story it was a 500 yard hold .

Not the calibers fault he over ranged his target. I was giving you the data to confirm how flat shooting it is….

 

[MoBoost]

My dope at 500 is 6.5 MOA, 3.5 MOA to 300 roughly a 9.387" error. Still a spine shot on one of those big bastards. Closest thing to a laser as I have ever shot!

With 6.5 moa @ 500 ... 300 should be 2.5 MOA .... no?

 

[KYS]

What velocity and elevation are you using to get 5.92 mil to 1000? Just curious. Thinking about building one but the number I have ran for here in OK are not coming up that impressive (though still very good, just not 5.92 good).

Thanks.

Im running a 130gr Berger, pointed at 3200 fps. My elevation is about 900 ft. But that elevation will vary depending where you are shooting/hunting. These number can be a bit off depending on the ballistic ap you use. But for me they have always been within .2-.3 mils

 

[tigerfan_9]

Im running a 130gr Berger, pointed at 3200 fps. My elevation is about 900 ft. But that elevation will vary depending where you are shooting/hunting. These number can be a bit off depending on the ballistic ap you use. But for me they have always been within .2-.3 mils

what BC are you using for the berger 130 pointed?

 

[LawnMM]

Ok maybe my terminology isn't the best. What I am getting at is how many of us can actually shoot well enough for that difference to really matter? I could see maybe in the bench rest game it could matter, but for hunting and "practical" types of shooting, does that difference really matter? Reading the wind makes most of the difference in my opinion. Bullet drop can be dialed into the scope. Im trying to talk myself into the 6.5 SAUM, but nothing is "jumping out" at me.

I can and I'm no pro. I switched from a 308 firing 0.53bc bullets at 2700 to a 6.5CM shooting 0.55bc bullets at 2925 and it made a huge difference for me. A few tenths of a point BC can be all the difference depending on the conditions. I didn't think it was THAT big a deal either. Then I shot a match with 30mph crosswinds gusting to over 40mph, I promise you the guys with better BC bullets were reaping the rewards that day.

 

[hognuts]

With 6.5 moa @ 500 ... 300 should be 2.5 MOA .... no?

I was just pulling numbers off shooter for my comment. I will have to look at my dope book to tell you for sure.

I didn't mean to stir the pot on this deal it was literally a casual conversation when we were going over the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" scenarios after the fact. My cousins got there first, I was literally slipping my boot on and running out of the tent to try and get a shot when my cousin missed the bastard! He had gone out to take an early morning piss and spotted 3 wolves and fucking shot over them! Still makes me sick that the SAUM didn't get an opportunity to prove or disprove our theory!

 

[hognuts]

....that and he said wolf was sitting down when he shot giving an even bigger vertical target.

 

[GMZ]

For those still worried about barrel life, My second barrel is now at 1800+ and still going strong. Pat's is over 2700 and hes still getting great accuracy but has dropped velocity his will be 3000 ish at rebarrel after this hunting season. My first barrel went 3400 ish and I won the SH cup with it just prior to re barrel. Results will very if guys hotrod it or rapid fire with it. but its a solid 2000+ barrel life for sure!!

George,

Are those barrels plain steel or treated? Seems with a nitro-carb treatment of some kind would give it a decent boost in life. Is that something that would be worthwhile in this case or would the cost of a re barrel zero out with the treatment cost?

 

[Hunt4life]

For those still worried about barrel life, My second barrel is now at 1800+ and still going strong. Pat's is over 2700 and hes still getting great accuracy but has dropped velocity his will be 3000 ish at rebarrel after this hunting season. My first barrel went 3400 ish and I won the SH cup with it just prior to re barrel. Results will very if guys hotrod it or rapid fire with it. but its a solid 2000+ barrel life for sure!!

That is awesome, 3400 rounds down the tube, i would call it the most efficient match caliber there is with that type of life. I am running a 7rm that I worked up to safe but hot loads for that are right at that but I do not expect to see 1200 thru it. Running 5.8 to 6 mils to 1000.

 

[Fongman]

what BC are you using for the berger 130 pointed?

.600 with G1. I have personally found it to be accurate.

 

[waveslayer]

I'm very far from an expert on the subject, but I think I've read most of the posts about it. I believe the big appeal is that it operates at relatively low pressures for its ballistic capability and thus brass and barrels last quite a bit longer than the WSM rounds. Although I've also considered the possibility that since the round can't really be run in an AI rifle or DTA SRS GAP was pushing it because they thought they'd sell more rifles.

I have the 6.5 SAUM in my DTA SRS and love it!

 

[6Dasher]

A 6.5-284 puts the same 139-140 downrange at 3050-3100 and uses 54gr of powder to do so. Lifetime at competition level (F-Class) is between 1200-2200 rds depending on if you shoot string or alternating (non-US). A 6.5SAUM will not give more lifetime on the barrel as it uses more powder and gets the same velocity. As you have more case volume, pressure will drop witht he same type and amount of powder, meaning you will need to add powder to get velocity/pressure back up. Seeing as the 6.5-284 is already overbore for the 6.5 bullets, I don't see how an even larger case will increase barrel life when shooting the same velocity. You would generally also use a slower powder with a larger case, complicating things even more.

If your 6.5saum is getting 3000rds for you (and no one is saying it won't), then a 6.5-284 will do the same at the same accuracy level. The 6.5saum or 6.5-270wsm (not much difference between the two) will perform within about 50fps between the two. The saum just has the advantage of being a bit less overbore (but still overbore), and shorter to make mag feeding and OAL a bit nicer than a WSM case in the short action.

If you're doing it for barrel life, then you're doing it all wrong. Go with a .30 and use the 230 hybrids. BC trumps speed any day for competition, in the end everything is a compromise. You can use the 230H at 2600fps to match the ballistics (wind) of the 6.5saum at 3050fps using 140 hybrids, anything higher and you're ahead of the 6.5saum.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[waveslayer]

I'm very far from an expert on the subject, but I think I've read most of the posts about it. I believe the big appeal is that it operates at relatively low pressures for its ballistic capability and thus brass and barrels last quite a bit longer than the WSM rounds. Although I've also considered the possibility that since the round can't really be run in an AI rifle or DTA SRS GAP was pushing it because they thought they'd sell more rifles.

I have the 6.5 SAUM in my DTA SRS and love it!

 

[hognuts]

I have the 6.5 SAUM in my DTA SRS and love it!

I wish DTA made a lefty! Not playing musical scopes or owning 4 $2K+ scopes would be handy! . That bull pup design makes it kinda rough on lefties!

 

[Rhyno]

A 6.5-284 puts the same 139-140 downrange at 3050-3100 and uses 54gr of powder to do so. Lifetime at competition level (F-Class) is between 1200-2200 rds depending on if you shoot string or alternating (non-US). A 6.5SAUM will not give more lifetime on the barrel as it uses more powder and gets the same velocity. As you have more case volume, pressure will drop witht he same type and amount of powder, meaning you will need to add powder to get velocity/pressure back up. Seeing as the 6.5-284 is already overbore for the 6.5 bullets, I don't see how an even larger case will increase barrel life when shooting the same velocity. You would generally also use a slower powder with a larger case, complicating things even more.

If your 6.5saum is getting 3000rds for you (and no one is saying it won't), then a 6.5-284 will do the same at the same accuracy level. The 6.5saum or 6.5-270wsm (not much difference between the two) will perform within about 50fps between the two. The saum just has the advantage of being a bit less overbore (but still overbore), and shorter to make mag feeding and OAL a bit nicer than a WSM case in the short action.

If you're doing it for barrel life, then you're doing it all wrong. Go with a .30 and use the 230 hybrids. BC trumps speed any day for competition, in the end everything is a compromise. You can use the 230H at 2600fps to match the ballistics (wind) of the 6.5saum at 3050fps using 140 hybrids, anything higher and you're ahead of the 6.5saum.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

I believe this is an argument that's been hashed out a few times already go back and read the arguments.

And your point in the first paragraph about barrel life contradicts the open sentence of your second paragraph, you either need to call The dude a lier, or acknowledge that the 6.5 SAUM does give better barrel life.

I'll add, just because I have a bigger pile of wood than you doesn't mean my fire is any bigger.

 

[steve123]

A 6.5-284 puts the same 139-140 downrange at 3050-3100 and uses 54gr of powder to do so. Lifetime at competition level (F-Class) is between 1200-2200 rds depending on if you shoot string or alternating (non-US). A 6.5SAUM will not give more lifetime on the barrel as it uses more powder and gets the same velocity. As you have more case volume, pressure will drop witht he same type and amount of powder, meaning you will need to add powder to get velocity/pressure back up. Seeing as the 6.5-284 is already overbore for the 6.5 bullets, I don't see how an even larger case will increase barrel life when shooting the same velocity. You would generally also use a slower powder with a larger case, complicating things even more.

If your 6.5saum is getting 3000rds for you (and no one is saying it won't), then a 6.5-284 will do the same at the same accuracy level. The 6.5saum or 6.5-270wsm (not much difference between the two) will perform within about 50fps between the two. The saum just has the advantage of being a bit less overbore (but still overbore), and shorter to make mag feeding and OAL a bit nicer than a WSM case in the short action.

If you're doing it for barrel life, then you're doing it all wrong. Go with a .30 and use the 230 hybrids. BC trumps speed any day for competition, in the end everything is a compromise. You can use the 230H at 2600fps to match the ballistics (wind) of the 6.5saum at 3050fps using 140 hybrids, anything higher and you're ahead of the 6.5saum.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

The main culprit with barrel wear, specifically throat wear is "HEAT", more pressure-more heat.

It's kinda like your Dasher pushing 105's at 3000 fps and your 6x47L pushing the same bullet the same speed. The Dasher is at max whereas the 6x47L is a light/medium load. The 6x47L will theoretically get better barrel life because it's using less pressure/heat to attain the same speed. I pushed the velocity/pressures on my 6mmART40 which has almost as much capacity as a 6BR, 105's/26" barrel at 2900 fps at first and as the barrel wore it slowed down to 2875 fps. It was showing signs of deteriorating accuracy at 1500 rounds.

IIRC one of George's match loads is 140's at 3060-3080 fps in a 26" barrel, somewhere around 53-55 thousand psi which is a light load for 6.5 4S but a hot load for 6.5-284 at the same speed. That's still 200+ fps faster than normal 260 Remington loads. I only have 300 rounds through my 6.5 Saum so it'll be a couple years before I know how many rounds mine will do with 140's at 3125 fps. I've got a 29" barrel and long throat so I'm not pushing the velocity in mine. Heck, I bet I could get 3300 fps with 140's but consequently 500-600 rounds barrel life. BTW my 6.5-284 was toast at 1200 rounds.

As a side note...I can't get .619 BC/140hybrid to work in my ballistic program at 3125 fps, .64 is what works for me and I've gotten top score at our long range steel match 2 for 3.

I've used 230 hybrids out of my 30-375R at 2940 fps in tactical and field course matches. It's a handful for a match rifle! About as good as it gets for wind drift but the problem is sight picture upset. If you can't see where exactly your misses are going then you are SWAG-ing the rest of the shots. So it can be counter productive even though you've got less wind drift. I have to admit it's fun to ravage steel with that big 30! The 6.5 Saum has significantly less sight picture upset and it's not hard to spot misses.

 

[Jig Stick]

Like I mentioned before, reading the wind is what counts. If you are good at reading the wind, then the advantage of less wind drift of the 6.5 SAUM goes out the window. If there was a good selection of factory loads for the 6.5 SAUM, I may be more inclined to go that route. What if my kids don't get into hand loading? Then I will have given them a gun that they can't shoot. Just saying. To me, the benefit of being able to pick up a box of 7wsm, 270win, 7mm at the hardware store if I forget my ammo on a trip outweighs the decrease in wind drift. I want to like the 6.5 SAUM and build one, but I can't talk myself into it.

I guess the "niche" is there for this caliber…But maybe its just not for me. Very interesting information though guys. You have brought a lot of things into focus for me about the 6.5 SAUM, and I appreciate the chance to learn about it.

 

[TimeWillTell]

Like I mentioned before, reading the wind is what counts. If you are good at reading the wind, then the advantage of less wind drift of the 6.5 SAUM goes out the window. If there was a good selection of factory loads for the 6.5 SAUM, I may be more inclined to go that route. What if my kids don't get into hand loading? Then I will have given them a gun that they can't shoot. Just saying. To me, the benefit of being able to pick up a box of 7wsm, 270win, 7mm at the hardware store if I forget my ammo on a trip outweighs the decrease in wind drift. I want to like the 6.5 SAUM and build one, but I can't talk myself into it.

I guess the "niche" is there for this caliber…But maybe its just not for me. Very interesting information though guys. You have brought a lot of things into focus for me about the 6.5 SAUM, and I appreciate the chance to learn about it.

Valid concerns I have had also but screw it, I'm gonna order a deviant and get things rolling. I hand load so no worries other than stocking up enough brass to last a long time.

 

[bas402]

I just built a 6.5 SAUM and it will ft the niche in which it was built for... A tweener between my CM&260's (better in wind) and my 7WSM (less recoil). I shoot steel in comps so I didn't build it for barrel life but if it happens it's a plus, I have a buddy I shoot comp's with that shoots 6.5 SAUM and i was amazed how fast the bullet gets on target he is up to 1700 now and no signs of going south just a little fps loss. I will say that it does have these working in it's favor but...my 7WSM is still my favorite at this point because of it's wind cheating ability and energy down range with the 180's, as far as wind I think it will hold it's on in the real world and will become my caliber of choice after I spend more time with it this fall/winter. At this point recoil hasn't become an issue for me yet but at 62 and slinging 60-70 rds WSM in comps that day will come, but for now I'm sticking with my WSM because it's just a hoot to shoot. By the way if you choose to not build either one that's cool it just means more brass available for both for me because Remmy and WW are in the same place for both of these calibers,(nadda) good luck with your decision.

 

[Randoman5]

Like I mentioned before, reading the wind is what counts. If you are good at reading the wind, then the advantage of less wind drift of the 6.5 SAUM goes out the window. If there was a good selection of factory loads for the 6.5 SAUM, I may be more inclined to go that route. What if my kids don't get into hand loading? Then I will have given them a gun that they can't shoot. Just saying. To me, the benefit of being able to pick up a box of 7wsm, 270win, 7mm at the hardware store if I forget my ammo on a trip outweighs the decrease in wind drift. I want to like the 6.5 SAUM and build one, but I can't talk myself into it.

I guess the "niche" is there for this caliber…But maybe its just not for me. Very interesting information though guys. You have brought a lot of things into focus for me about the 6.5 SAUM, and I appreciate the chance to learn about it.

I don't know how that first statement makes any sense. It's not going to save you if you completely screw it up, but having less wind drift means that reading the wind matters less unless you're overestimating the wind. Less wind drift means that underestimating the wind will matter a lot less because the adjustment you're making is much smaller and the amount the bullet is traveling is much less.

 

[Randoman5]

I have the 6.5 SAUM in my DTA SRS and love it!

I was pretty excited about this idea a while back, but everyone said they wouldn't load reliably from the magazine.

 

[waveslayer]

I was pretty excited about this idea a while back, but everyone said they wouldn't load reliably from the magazine.

Well I haven't had any issues with the it feeding well. You can't do it super fast, just a nice constant speed from the Magnum mags. Works great, there is an old post where a guy takes a 308 mag and modifies it by bending the lips of the mag. I don't want to spend the extra 100 when I have no issues feeding it now. Just remeber nice and constant force running the bolt at a moderate speed.
The pick from earlier was bad. I will have to take more

 

[hognuts]

Like I mentioned before, reading the wind is what counts. If you are good at reading the wind, then the advantage of less wind drift of the 6.5 SAUM goes out the window. If there was a good selection of factory loads for the 6.5 SAUM, I may be more inclined to go that route. What if my kids don't get into hand loading? Then I will have given them a gun that they can't shoot. Just saying. To me, the benefit of being able to pick up a box of 7wsm, 270win, 7mm at the hardware store if I forget my ammo on a trip outweighs the decrease in wind drift. I want to like the 6.5 SAUM and build one, but I can't talk myself into it.

I guess the "niche" is there for this caliber…But maybe its just not for me. Very interesting information though guys. You have brought a lot of things into focus for me about the 6.5 SAUM, and I appreciate the chance to learn about it.

I get my brass prepped from Copper Creek, it is a little more money, but worth it to me not to have to get into the neck turning and all of the details of creating a piece of useable brass. Then I just resize and trim from there. I think maybe I am a bit more picky on what I take hunting with me than being able to "just pick something up at the hardware store"

Don't get me wrong, I have used factory ammo to hunt with, but only when the rifle was zeroed with that ammo and data collected with it. The only exception I suppose is the 30/30 marlin that is used as a "brush gun" for deer at close range, but even that lately I have been running only the Leverlution stuff from Hornady and try to put a few rounds through it to make sure its GTG.

Sorry if this sounds dickish, but I think its a stretch to compare any rifle to the 6.5 SAUM that you just picked up a box of ammo for on the way out to the field and try to expect any kind of predictable accuracy at a distance, wind or no wind. My "Niche" for this rifle is I want it to hit shit that I point it at and within reason kill that shit.

 

[6Dasher]

The main culprit with barrel wear, specifically throat wear is "HEAT", more pressure-more heat.
It's kinda like your Dasher pushing 105's at 3000 fps and your 6x47L pushing the same bullet the same speed. The Dasher is at max whereas the 6x47L is a light/medium load. The 6x47L will theoretically get better barrel life because it's using less pressure/heat to attain the same speed. I pushed the velocity/pressures on my 6mmART40 which has almost as much capacity as a 6BR, 105's/26" barrel at 2900 fps at first and as the barrel wore it slowed down to 2875 fps. It was showing signs of deteriorating accuracy at 1500 rounds.

At 3050fps the dasher would need 38gr of 4350 giving 59Kpsi. The 6x47 to get the same speed with the same powder needs 41.5gr at 54Kpsi. I can tell you they will last just as long at that level at best, but the extra powder vs the slightly lower pressure will most likely mean the 6x47 will last a bit shorter. I'm getting 2000-2500 from the 6x47 and got 3000-3500 from the Dasher. I am not shooting soft loads on the 6x47, but that will not account for doubling the barrel life, let alone tripling it.


The only way to get longer barrel life is to select a powder that has less energy, but that will mean more volume of a slower powder, kind of negating things. Avoiding double based powders is the thing that will save barrel life, not so much the larger case. I shot N165 in my 6.5-284s and they lasted 2000 rounds easily at <0.5moa level for f-class.


You refer to the 6.5-284 as being shot "hot" and the 6.5saum as being shot "not as hot". Hot refers to pressure relative to the case. You might have less pressure with the 6.5SAUM, but you are using more powder to compensate for the loss of pressure, and slower powder to spread the pressure and still get the required gas volume for the same speed.

[MENTION=83455]Rhino[/MENTION]: There are more options, no need to call anyone a liar, that is quite a black/white view of matters... it depends on what your expectation for accuracy is, hence the "I believe you're getting 3000 rounds" line. I know people that got 7000 rounds from a PPC barrel, where 1500 is the norm for changing them out. But if you take the same accuracy for both cases, there will not be a difference between the 6.5-284 and 6.5saum in terms of barrel life. This is just like the 6.5 SLR debate that magically doubled barrel life by adding more powder.

PS: My 6.5-284 barrels (and several other shooters here) got 2000-2500 rounds from it before not grouping adequatly anymore for my purpose (<0.5moa). Yet I know people that only got 1200-1500 rounds from theirs, using the same powders etc. I know why there was a difference, time between rounds, and it has nothing to do with more/less powder. I've been wildcatting and shooting BR/F for 15 years, I know when something sounds too good to be true, it always is.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Ok maybe my terminology isn't the best. What I am getting at is how many of us can actually shoot well enough for that difference to really matter? I could see maybe in the bench rest game it could matter, but for hunting and "practical" types of shooting, does that difference really matter? Reading the wind makes most of the difference in my opinion. Bullet drop can be dialed into the scope. Im trying to talk myself into the 6.5 SAUM, but nothing is "jumping out" at me.

Anybody shooting at distance can see a difference, you don't have to be a pro. Any time you can reduce the margin of error then you are doing just that. Reducing drift is reducing margin of error. It's just like why have a gun capable of shooting 1/4moa gun when somebody is a MOA shooter... Margin of error.

 

[KYS]

The main culprit with barrel wear, specifically throat wear is "HEAT", more pressure-more heat.
It's kinda like your Dasher pushing 105's at 3000 fps and your 6x47L pushing the same bullet the same speed. The Dasher is at max whereas the 6x47L is a light/medium load. The 6x47L will theoretically get better barrel life because it's using less pressure/heat to attain the same speed. I pushed the velocity/pressures on my 6mmART40 which has almost as much capacity as a 6BR, 105's/26" barrel at 2900 fps at first and as the barrel wore it slowed down to 2875 fps. It was showing signs of deteriorating accuracy at 1500 rounds.

At 3050fps the dasher would need 38gr of 4350 giving 59Kpsi. The 6x47 to get the same speed with the same powder needs 41.5gr at 54Kpsi. I can tell you they will last just as long at that level at best, but the extra powder vs the slightly lower pressure will most likely mean the 6x47 will last a bit shorter. I'm getting 2000-2500 from the 6x47 and got 3000-3500 from the Dasher. I am not shooting soft loads on the 6x47, but that will not account for doubling the barrel life, let alone tripling it.


The only way to get longer barrel life is to select a powder that has less energy, but that will mean more volume of a slower powder, kind of negating things. Avoiding double based powders is the thing that will save barrel life, not so much the larger case. I shot N165 in my 6.5-284s and they lasted 2000 rounds easily at <0.5moa level for f-class.


You refer to the 6.5-284 as being shot "hot" and the 6.5saum as being shot "not as hot". Hot refers to pressure relative to the case. You might have less pressure with the 6.5SAUM, but you are using more powder to compensate for the loss of pressure, and slower powder to spread the pressure and still get the required gas volume for the same speed.

@Rhino: There are more options, no need to call anyone a liar, that is quite a black/white view of matters... it depends on what your expectation for accuracy is, hence the "I believe you're getting 3000 rounds" line. I know people that got 7000 rounds from a PPC barrel, where 1500 is the norm for changing them out. But if you take the same accuracy for both cases, there will not be a difference between the 6.5-284 and 6.5saum in terms of barrel life. This is just like the 6.5 SLR debate that magically doubled barrel life by adding more powder.

PS: My 6.5-284 barrels (and several other shooters here) got 2000-2500 rounds from it before not grouping adequatly anymore for my purpose (<0.5moa). Yet I know people that only got 1200-1500 rounds from theirs, using the same powders etc. I know why there was a difference, time between rounds, and it has nothing to do with more/less powder. I've been wildcatting and shooting BR/F for 15 years, I know when something sounds too good to be true, it always is.

Please explain how we are using "more powder" to compensate? The saum is a low pressure round which lends itself to longer barrel life. IF you run each case to their performance parameters, the 6.5x284 won't last nearly as long as the 6.5 SAUM. I believe that has been established plenty of times now.

 

[JoshcBoucher]

A small side que[stion. Did the Bears find ya?QUOTE=hognuts;3255898]I run one for hunting and my primary reason for building it was because I already had an Elite Iron Suppressor for a 6.5 (ran it on my Creedmoor) I shot a spike bull up in Montana at 650 yards with my Creedmoor, the first round went right behind the shoulder and was a "through and through" shot and jellied the liver, the elk didn't drop right away and turned quartering towards me. I sent another and hit him directly in the shoulder and dropped him. Didn't think too much of it at the time. When I was skinning it I found that the second round that hit him in the shoulder (in the dense muscle tissue of the shoulder) had only penetrated about 1-1 1/2". If that had been my first shot he probably would have gotten away wounded. I wanted something with a little more gas behind it, seemed like I was pushing the limits of what the Creedmoor could do at that distance on an elk size animal.

I like how "flat shooting" the SAUM is. I am still skeptical on the barrel life claims that have been made, I have just over 800 rounds through mine and I love it, remains to be seen how many "good rounds" I get through it, but I am running the 130 Berger HVLD's and they are around 3200-3250. (I punched a hole through one of my AR 500 targets at 100 yards with it, sent 5 just dicking around, 4 of them pitted it pretty good, one punched a .264" in my steel! oops I have shot a .270 for hunting as well and there is nothing wrong with that rifle for putting down game, but it is not even in the same zip code as a 6.5 SAUM.

If you are looking for an excuse to get one, one of my favorite things about it in a hunting application, even if you have a minor ranging error, chances are you are still going to be able to put one in the kill zone if you are in the ballpark on range.

I head shot a mule deer at 560 yards in the Rubies last year at a pretty severe angle (suppressed ) Wouldn't have even tried that shot with my trusty old .270, shot a 334 bull in the Bridger Tetons with it last fall 320 yards, bull was running up a ridge away from me, put one in his spine (kind of far back, was "ambushing" him as he ran through a clearing), that round stopped him then put one between the shoulders about 1/2" to the right of his spine on second shot.




Bull from Bridger Tetons last fall. 320 yards 6.5 SAUM.


Head shot on Mule deer in Ruby Mountains in Nevada last fall. 560 yards, 6.5 SAUM


Pics from the Wyoming hunt last fall. Good luck to you all this fall, whichever rifle you have in your hands! [/QUOTE]