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Range Report 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

Lowe Left

Chief
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 3, 2009
892
5
Arizona
Got to the range this morning & decided to do an Optimum Charge Weight (OCW) test. These charge weights are shot round-robin style. 1 shot from charge weight one at target one, 1 shot from charge weight two at target two, etc.

6.5 Super LR, 123 Scenar jumped .025", Fed 210M, Rem brass, H4350
Rock Creek 25" 1-8 twist 5R:

charge/3-shot group size (center to center).

42.9gr/1.080"
43.2gr/0.588"
43.5gr/0.337"
43.8gr/0.163"
44.1gr/1.072"
44.4gr/1.180"

5 shots fired as sighters and to foul a clean barrel. I believe it took 7 rounds to foul and that's why you see one hole for the 42.9 and 43.2 groups near the center of the target. After those 2 rounds everything was a little high/right. I would shoot 1 round at each target for a total of 6 rounds then allow the barrel to cool. 61 degrees and DA of 1300. I didn't have a chrono today, but the first time shooting the rifle, 43.9gr of 4350 was getting 2970fps ES 9, SD 5 and shot a 0.364" group in the same area (high/right) as charges 43.5 & 43.8. I plan to work on a load somewhere between 43.5 and 43.9, am I interpreting all this correctly?

ravor9.jpg
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

I appreciate the feedback, thank you. I've decided to go with the 43.8gr, as 43.4 just isn't giving me the velocity I hoped for. 43.8 should be around 2970fps with the 123 Scenar and it is apparent in the targets that it is a forgiving node. I've got to have a load and some dope by Sunday for the match in Ash Fork. I've also noticed, after 2 firings the 6.5 SLR Remington brass has not stretched one bit. With my 260 brass, it normally needs trimmed after 1 firing.
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

Personally I would run .1g jumps from the 43.3 to 44. Seems like you have a really good node there. I would be not only paying attention to groups but also the ES and SD's of those to see which I am getting the most consistent velocity out of.
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

Sorry I don't have Quickload. Just got back from the range. First 5 shot group @ 100yds including cold bore measure 0.355" center to center. This was shot with 43.8gr of H4350, <span style="font-style: italic">fire-formed</span> Rem260 case, 210M primer and 123 Scenar jumped .025". Temp 73, DA 2400. The next group was same load/bullet etc, except a new case, not <span style="font-style: italic">fire-formed</span>, just resized in the 6.5 Super LR die. Measured 1.7"!!?? So I let the barrel cool and tried another 5 and really focused. 0.9ish....!?

I was expecting a POI change, but didn't expect the groups to go shotgun splatter. I guess I need to work on a more consistent fire-forming load?

264ot5j.jpg
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

Interesting. Were your "new" cases 243 cases? or 260 cases??
I am assuming when you say "fireformed Rem260" you mean they had already been fired through this chamber?
I am sure after the nice first group incl cold bore you were scratching your head!
Did you chrono these to see if there was a difference in fps esp in ES?
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

Yes, all 260 rem cases, fire-formed does mean fired through this chamber. Won't have a chrono available until Friday.

I'm very happy with the results once the brass is fired and then resized. But, was hoping for better results with the non-fired, resized brass. I'll double check to make sure I'm not bumping the shoulder back too far on the new brass, but I'm 95% sure it's good to go. Is it possible the new brass needs a different charge weight to show accuracy?

Puzzled...
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

I am shooting a 6SLR and see a .1 difference form new to formed brass. I turn my necks first so that might be the difference.

You might want to check you neck clearance. I had some some brass that was a zero clearance neck.
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

After some investigating, it turns out I've bumped the shoulder back .004ish on the new brass (damn it, I ran the last of my rem 260 brass 120+ pieces that way).

Once I get some new brass in, I'll resize it closer to a .002" bump - maybe that will improve accuracy.
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

Lowe Left,
What are you expecting to gain with the SLR over the std. 260 case?? Your velocities are the same as mine with my 260 and the 123s.

My load is 43.5grs of H4350 with the 123 Lapua it cronographs in the 2975fps range and is very accurate still at over 2800rds down the tube.

I just changed scopes on it this week and shot it at 100yds to zero it and shot a 5shot into a .340 I then shot a 5shot at 400yds that was 1.78" wide and 1.6" tall. Hard to beat the 123s in the 260s. I feel the 120 to 130gr bullets are perfect for the 260 sized cases. The SLR is what the factory "Should" have designed when they made the 243 case. Good luck with your project!!
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

raptor99,

I was expecting better velocities. The jury is still out on my velocities, and I'm not sure I have definitive chrono results yet. It may be that my buddy's Oehler is acting up a little. The first time I shot my 43.8 charge over his chrono, it averaged 2970 with the 123. I did some new brass firings recently and 43.3 was averaging 2970+...?

This chambering has a relatively short throat, COAL w/ .025 jump is 2.77ish with 123. It looks like there's a half inch of space between the bullet tip and the end of the AW mag, lol. the base of the 123 is DEEP in the case, past the shoulder. On paper, it appears the 142SMK will seat farther out. I was given some Norma 130s and the 142SMKs to try next.

Also of note: some of this 260 rem brass is on 3x fired and no stretch or trimming required. my 260 usually needs a trimming after 2 firings (moderate load) maybe that's a positive for the 30 degree shoulder?
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

Lowe Left,
I had the 6SLR and the actual case cap. was no more than the 243 case if my memory serves me correctly. I am sure it would be the same with the 6.5SLR and the 260 case.

I just feel you get a better case design with the 6.5SLR over the 260 case. Just my thoughts on it.
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

if you are at the lands with the L123's at 2.795" coal,I am really thinking I should have gone with a long action....

Are the 142gr SMK's only .050" longer to ogive than the L123's?
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: raptor99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lowe Left,
I had the 6SLR and the actual case cap. was no more than the 243 case if my memory serves me correctly. I am sure it would be the same with the 6.5SLR and the 260 case.

I just feel you get a better case design with the 6.5SLR over the 260 case. Just my thoughts on it.</div></div>

Raptor99, you're spot on, due to the design, I expected higher velocities before pressure signs. I assume this 30 degree shoulder will protect the throat increasing barrel life. I've got 4x fired cases, no trimming required yet.
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OinCO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you are at the lands with the L123's at 2.795" coal,I am really thinking I should have gone with a long action....

Are the 142gr SMK's only .050" longer to ogive than the L123's?
</div></div>

I'll do some measurements with some bullets I've got on hand: 123/139Scenar, 130 Normas & 142 SMKs. I'll post the COAL to the lands...
 
Re: 6.5 Super LR / 123 Scenar

Using a Hornady case length gauge and 6.5 SLR modified case:

Bullet / COAL / Ogive

123 Scenar / 2.787" / 2.222"
139 Scenar / 2.790" / 2.213"
130 Norma / 2.800" / 2.196"
142 SMK / 2.811" / 2.206"

These measurements are touching the lands. Reamer: JGS throated for SA mag fed rifle info here, http://www.6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php
There are some measurements given for COAL at the bottom of the web page, it appears my chamber is 30 thou shorter than that.