6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

MDM

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 26, 2009
717
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Ohio
I shot my 6.5 Lapua for the first time to 1 mile today. It took me 3 rounds to get on target, then the next 4 hit. The red dot is 3 inches. All of them hit tip first. It took 22 mils elevation and .9 mils windage. I'm running the 140 VLD's at 2830 with 40.6 grains of H4350.
1mile.jpg


Factory Savage action
27" McGowen Bull
Choate Tactical
5-20 SWFA SS
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MDM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It took me 3 rounds to get on target, then the next 4 hit. The red dot is 3 inches.</div></div>That's world-class shooting at 1760 yards: A nearly impossible hit ratio and a group that would win any world record. Fantastic subsonic performance from those VLD's, too. What device are you using to tell which part of the bullet hit first?
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Note that the same performance would be impressive enough, with the equipment listed, at 760 yards.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

MDM,
That is some kick butt shooting with a neat little round.
We had a friendly ELR shoot tonight, nobody brought their 6.5 Lapua's. But we had up to "11"moa wind at a mile with 7mm Saums, and it was less than a stellar performance.
Nice shooting!!
Milo
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...nobody brought their 6.5 Lapua's. But we had up to "11"moa wind at a mile with 7mm Saums, and it was less than a stellar performance.</div></div> Now <span style="text-decoration: underline">that</span> I believe.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

Sorry you don't believe me. I had 2 spotters at 1100 giving me calls, but I could see the dust signature pretty well on the misses. I built an 1100 yard range on my dads farm, so I shoot at distances over 1000 every weekend. We have to use the neighbors property for some of the distance, but they don't mind. The mile target is a 25" man hole cover.

There is always wind, but we are pretty much shooting up the gut of a mile long valley, so the wind is either at our backs or in our faces. That is the only thing I don't like, because there is not much practice to be had in windy conditions.

There were distict impressions of the hollow points and the surrounding splatter.

This load was really not developed. My goto load is the 140 amax. I was testing the Bergers in my dads rifle, which is identical to mine, and decided to try a few loads of the Bergers in mine. I loaded up two sets at 40.3(this is my amax load) and 40.6g. The 40.6 was grouping under an inch at 300 so I loaded up 10 just to try at some longer targets.

The 140 amax hits tip first at 1 mile too, but the VLD's are 2 mils flatter, both were equally predictable.

I wish I could say I had a $1000 dollar action and $800 dollar stock. Fact is I've never seen a need for it. If I had that kind of money I would probably just put together another junk Savage anyway. I've put together 4 Savages with McGowen's and Brux and they all are capable of sub .5moa. Granted, they all are bedded, have aftermarket triggers, and have extensive load work ups.
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Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Note that the same performance would be impressive enough, with the equipment listed, at 760 yards. </div></div>

We have a 12" square at 785. If I missed that more than twice in a row I would give up for the day. At that particular target the wind is usually in our faces and I have only ever had to dial in .2 mils of left windage. I'm not that great of a shooter, the lack of cross winds may may it look as such.
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I I went to a different range where I was not so comfortable and confident, I would likely suck.

I have targets at the following distances. Again, this is at my family farm, so we get alot of free practice.
4" square - 211
6" circle - 345
6" square - 380
8" square - 460
8" circle - 450
9" square - 520
6x9" head - 515
9" square - 590
10" square - 670
4"x8" rect - 785
12" square - 785
12" square - 840
12" square - 915
10" square - 1050
15" square - 1110
25" circle - 1100 and 1 mile
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

I'm not trying to be a jerk. It's not that I don't believe you: I wasn't there. But suffice it to say that your load is subsonic at a mile and that you are re-writing the laws of physics.

Understand that you are claiming to shoot at a 1.3 MOA target at 1760 yards, with an undeveloped load, and consistently hit, and consistently group within .5 MOA at that distance.

If you can do that, with a light rifle off a bi-pod, and with a home-built Savage no less, then you're the next Bob Lee Swagger.

I won't address your claimed forensic ability to read hollow-point impressions, or the employment of two spotters at 1100, but I would have no trouble believing you if you said that the picture you posted was of a 1.5 MOA group at 700 yards.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

Ha, ha. I would never post a group like that if it was shot at 700. I never said I could do this day in and day out. The group was about 15". The red dot is a cut out of a divider from the impression of a beer can from a case of Busch light - not that that lends to my credibility. It may be closer to 4 or 5".

I understand your doubts. What do you think happens to the bullet when it goes subsonic? Which in this case is at 1480 yds. I guess they should be keyholing at a mile. All I know is the splatter looks the same at a mile as it does at 1100. The bullets did hit tip first. Look at the red, you can clearly see the impression of the hollow point in the center. The cluster at the top was 3 hits. 1 from an 1100 yard hit. I will set some cardboard up the next time to verify this though.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not trying to be a jerk. It's not that I don't believe you: I wasn't there. But suffice it to say that your load is subsonic at a mile and that you are re-writing the laws of physics.

Understand that you are claiming to shoot at a 1.3 MOA target at 1760 yards, with an undeveloped load, and consistently hit, and consistently group within .5 MOA at that distance.

If you can do that, with a light rifle off a bi-pod, and with a home-built Savage no less, then you're the next Bob Lee Swagger.

I won't address your claimed forensic ability to read hollow-point impressions, or the employment of two spotters at 1100, but I would have no trouble believing you if you said that the picture you posted was of a 1.5 MOA group at 700 yards.
</div></div>

You watched a couple Home Built Stevens 200's in .260 make the mile shots back to back
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Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

I've seen consistent results with .260's at 1 mile at Thunder Valley Precision on a 12" target. And they have steady full value winds. I know those guys would destroy a 25" plate in zero wind conditions at a mile with their .260's.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ~Ace</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You watched a couple Home Built Stevens 200's in .260 make the mile shots back to back
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</div></div>1575 by my calculations, and supersonic, but in fine style.
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It's not impossible to shoot a mile with a .260, Savage or otherwise, that's not what I am saying.

I am saying that consistent hits with subsonic sub-MOA performance at a mile is world-class shooting with any rifle.

In the right hands, transonic .30 cal 175SMK's can do some amazing things at 1300+. But at Gunsite, among a bevy of .300WM's and .338's all properly set-up for the mile, a 33% hit ratio on UKD's closer than a mile was achieved by only one of ten students. The hit ratio was better at KD's, but not on MOA targets at a mile.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

Google Earth says 1755, I milled it at 1730, and it was 1745 according to my drop chart. So, it may be 20 yds shy of a mile.

No, I didn't do a Youtube video, but I just bought a HD video camera. I'm anxious to see what it will pick up with 40x zoom from the 1100yd location.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MDM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I milled it at 1730</div></div>You milled a 25" target at a mile, to within 25 yards of its actual distance?

Again my own skill level pales in comparison, and I am now thinking of getting out of rifle competition altogether and taking-up basketweaving.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

Christ man,I milled it several times and took the average. This was going in knowing what numbers I could expect based off of Google earth. I was just playing with the milling and practicing. I was not relying on the mil numbers to get the distance. My first shot was 5 ft left and two feet low. I'm just an average guy that likes to shoot, I'm not the one throwing around terms like "world class". I just got off the phone with my dad who witnessed the session and told him about a guy that didn't believe the 4 in a row claim. He just laughed cause he saw it happen right through the spotting scope.

Will this make you happy - It was just dumb luck as I'm incompetent and inferior. I'm also a liar and I shot the plate at 250. Next time I will just keep something like this to myself, unless I have video to prove it.

The elevation from the shooting position is about 900 ASL and the target is about 1100 ASL.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

Again, this was my first time shooting a mile, it very well could have been dumb luck. In fact, logic says it more than was just that. I'm just reporting what happened. I might try it one more time, just to see what happens, but I will more than likely stick to 1100yds where the little 6.5 is plenty capable.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MDM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not the one throwing around terms like "world class".</div></div>It's about claims, not terminology. Don't get me wrong: I encourage you to shoot, and to shoot well. I'm glad you posted and I'm not trying to make you go away. You're being subjected to an exacting peer review of your claims, that's all. Welcome to being treated as an equal.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MDM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got off the phone with my dad who witnessed the session and told him about a guy that didn't believe the 4 in a row claim.</div></div>It's quite possible to hit a target four times in a row, even at a mile. I can't remember a time that I've ever seen it done, but that doesn't mean that it's not possible at a known distance under constant conditions and with very little wind - if it's a big enough target.

At ASC this spring we had plenty of time to practice on a target that was located at somewhere between 1575 and 1720: We had been shooting progressively farther-out most of the morning, so we had a good idea of what the wind was doing. Fewer than half a dozen of the forty-four shooters hit it as a UKD within the first three rounds (and most of the shooters who attend ASC can out-shoot me by a considerable margin). After the first hit, and with good current dope, no one hit it three more times in a row. I hit it on my third UKD shot, but only twice more in the next six or eight shots - with a 7mm.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

Fair enough. I certainly respect your thoughts as you are far more experienced at this distance than I am. I'll just chock this one up to luck and report what happens the next go around, good or bad. I absolutely do not expect 4 in row to happen again. I was just tickled to hit it at all. It's damn long ways once you lay down behind the rifle and look at that plate off in the distance.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

MDM,
If it's any consolation, I believe you did this.
If you would have said you were holding 5 mils wind, I would not have. I have a 6.5x47, have needed 5.5 moa at 500, here in WY.
I think the koombayah numb nuts must have been a Vietnam war protester. My wife was one and she is the only person I've ever heard that word from.
Happy shooting,
Miles
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

good shooting MDM, keep it up, I am in the process of building a 6.5 lapua also after seeing a hi-master Fclass shooter with one plugging the X ring at 800 yds 15 out of 15 times.
great caliber.
cheers.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

I thought I was the only one shooting this caliber at this distance and beyond
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I have shot mine several times at 1760 and once at 2000 yards. At 2000 the bullets were hitting sideways because they were so unstable! Good shooting brother and keep it up!
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am saying that consistent hits with subsonic sub-MOA performance at a mile is world-class shooting with any rifle.</div></div>

Great world-class shooting MDM. Hang in there!
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

I shoot the 6.5X47 too. I have not shot beyond 1000. But when I was at Rifles Only with Graham it was 8.3 mil to a grand. So I believe the post. It is exceptionally rare to get good hits like that so far out.
I do want to hear about the next range session. If you can get a hit on the mile target again I want to know about it. I am stoked to think about a 6.5 that will remain stable through the transsonic range.

And definately record all the range conditions incl elevation, rel humidity, temp, barometric pressure. On a high hot day at altitude the 6.5 might still be supersonic at 1750.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

This has been a fun read.
BTW, a guy at Wally World told me he used the 17HMR to kill coyotes at 500+ yards. I should be sorry I ever doubted him.
I recently shot my AI AE to 1000 yards with 168 gr running 2600. It took 12.4 Mils to get three rounds in a 13" group and they were all subsonic there. To get to a mile they would have to grow legs and walk about the last 600 yards.
Did kill a prairie dog at 1635 yards once. What an unlucky bastard he was!! 7STW at 3500 FPS muzzle. Sorry, but no video and the witness died a couple years ago.
MDM, sorry you're getting crap from some guys. That was some awesome shooting!
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And definately record all the range conditions incl elevation, rel humidity, temp, barometric pressure. On a high hot day at altitude the 6.5 might still be supersonic at 1750. </div></div>

Will do. I'm going to see if the camcorder will pick up anything with its 40x zoom from 1100. I figure it should pick up the dust from the misses easily enough. I was just planning on trying the mile for the hell of it, just to say I hit it once. I will give it another go, hopefully this weekend, and report back. FWIW, I just check the elevation, its 900 at the shooting position and 1160 at the target. I have a 15" square 10 yards beyond the 25" cirle plate, I may give that a go just to say I tied it. One thing that surprised me - once I got home and unpacked everything I saw that I only had my scope set at just a fuzz under 16x. I really like the SWFA SS HD. I'm still getting used to the FFP. I saw my first miss at about 5' right and didn't even think to read the reticle and turn in my adjustments based on that.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

Crump:

140 Amax, 140 BTHP Hornady, 142 SMK have all shown by myself and several others to successfully transition and remain correctable and repeatable well past the sound barrier. I've only tested the Amax and BTHP down to about -300 DA and had good success and repeatability 200+yd past the sound barrier. One particularly cold day (for PA) I was hitting at 1450yd, the MV had a predicted transition point of appx 1225yd from a DPMS 260.

The 130 and 140 Bergers did not fare well even at 3300' DA, nor did the 130 JLK.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Crump:

140 Amax, 140 BTHP Hornady, 142 SMK have all shown by myself and several others to successfully transition and remain correctable and repeatable well past the sound barrier. I've only tested the Amax and BTHP down to about -300 DA and had good success and repeatability 200+yd past the sound barrier. One particularly cold day (for PA) I was hitting at 1450yd, the MV had a predicted transition point of appx 1225yd from a DPMS 260.

The 130 and 140 Bergers did not fare well even at 3300' DA, nor did the 130 JLK. </div></div>

That's interesting, do you think the tangent vs. secant o-give has something to do with your findings? I would have thought the higher BC projectile would do better, but bc must be a moot point when it comes to the super sonic transition.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Crump:

The 130 and 140 Bergers did not fare well even at 3300' DA, nor did the 130 JLK. </div></div>

When I shot the 130 JLK at 2000, though I did indeed get a hit and it impacted sideways on target, the shots were splashing as much as 4 mils apart. They didnt fare too good at all. Good to see We are getting similar data. What was your muzzle velocity and conditions bohem?
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MDM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

That's interesting, do you think the tangent vs. secant o-give has something to do with your findings? I would have thought the higher BC projectile would do better, but bc must be a moot point when it comes to the super sonic transition. </div></div>

Correct: The higher BC bullet will delay transition effects because velocity is retained for longer distance, but the higher BC bullets in jacketed form have a tendency to show transition issues.

Nose shape is far less significant than the tail of the bullet.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mudvayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
When I shot the 130 JLK at 2000, though I did indeed get a hit and it impacted sideways on target, the shots were splashing as much as 4 mils apart. They didnt fare too good at all. Good to see We are getting similar data. What was your muzzle velocity and conditions bohem? </div></div>

The DA is a short hand approach to the conditions. If you log the altitude, temp, and pressure you'll be no farther than +/-1.5% from getting the humidity in there too.

The density difference at 0% vs. 100% humidity is only a 3% change in the density.

I don't have the notes any more about the temp and pressure of the day, just the end result of the DA.

Memory says that the best conditions I ever shot the Bergers and JLK's under was about 85-90F, 29.4 inHg, 70% r.h. at a range 1000' ASL.

I shot them without issue to hit 1 foot squares at 1740yd, impacts were consistently MOA or less vertically, wind out there was pushing the groups a little larger overall.

This was from a 6.5-06 throwing the 140 Berger at 3200fps. When the same rifle was slowed down to throw them at 2900fps I could not keep them inside of a 10 foot circle at that range. The transition point was predicted appx. 80yd in front of the target at the slower MV.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

MDM,

Get used to the guys who cast doubt. As for those who do doubt make a trip to TVP and see it done for yourself.
A 12"x12" steel target at a mile is a cake walk with a .260 rem shooting 140 Bergers or 142 SMK's no matter what the numbers say.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

Or better yet....lets schedule a mile match for 6.5's...say a three target agg. at one mile? Then we can actually see what these bullets can do on paper for group and score. Some of us already know...but this will allow others to see.
Also will give a chance to check for the stability of the bullet flight through the paper (round or oval holes).
I will schedule this in September? Heck, we can do a 1000 yard and one mile agg for for 6 targets over two days with whatever you want to bring. Yes...this is the purpose of shooting groups...to prove what works and what doesn't in our weapons systems...prone or bench...your choice.

By the way, these matches are not designed to put people in their place. They are designed to educate and to further ALL OF OUR shooting needs and expectations. A lot can be learned from a few paper matches being shot with tacical and hunting rifles...you just have to know what to look for. That's where we come in...we enjoy nothing more than helping folks shoot farther and more accurate.
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

Tom,
If that match happens...count me in!
I have never shot my .260 past 1,200yrds. but, would look forward to the challenge.
hopefully, me and fw707 can make it up to TVP for one of the weekend matches...soon!

LOBO 151
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

Well crap I would be there in 2 seconds if I werent all the way in Texas! Id love to show the nay sayers a thing or two. Funny when you politely invite them to show up and see for themselves how they always have an excuse whey they cant be there.

Tom I talked to David Whittson and ordered 2 cans from him today. He said TVP is as good of a place to shoot as anywhere. I cant wait to come there one day to shoot.

Chase
 
Re: 6.5 x 47 Lapua to 1 Mile

Tom,

The original claim was a 6.5x47, not a .260, with an undeveloped load, and clearly subsonic, hitting point first, and the target shows the shots with a three inch bull for scale.... I still say that's world-class shooting.

If you find sub MOA performance at a mile to be a 'cake walk' with a .260 light tactical rifle froma bi-pod, and regardless of bullet selection and regardless of 'what the numbers say', then that would be world class shooting as well.

If anyone cares to post a video of a light tactical rifle (not a Heavy Bench gun), in .260, grouping (or even getting repeatable hits), on a 12"x12" target at a mile, there are experienced people in this community that would be very interested in seeing how it is done.