6.5x55 Swede users?

[Rustybroadhead]

Backspace, I think I need another drink....

I just read through this whole thread again and I don't see the post. I think I am confusing another conversation I had.

My bad...

I know a smith who has an AI reamer cause he is chambering mine with it. Let me know if you want his contact info

 

[Backspace]

Either one. I will have to buy dies and wait on my Smith. It is going to be a fun gun anyway. If I am waiting on my Smith, I can wait on dies too. I am thinking SO might be the route to go since I am not going to run a 28"+ tube and want to make sure I am close to the 3k Mark.

 

[PS-G1_Sniper]

Either one. I will have to buy dies and wait on my Smith. It is going to be a fun gun anyway. If I am waiting on my Smith, I can wait on dies too. I am thinking SO might be the route to go since I am not going to run a 28"+ tube and want to make sure I am close to the 3k Mark.

The AI PTG floating pilot reamer from post #58 is mine if you want to pay for part of it in order to use it (think I may need it again considering the barre wont have a huge life). I personally couldn't find a floating pilot reamer to rent anywhere.

 

[sandwarrior]

Is anyone on here using a 6.5x55swede? Dont here much chatter about them outside Mauser talk. I have an extra long action at home thats rdy for a rebarrel and Im on the fenceline weather to stay chambered 30.06 or try the swede.
I tactfully aquired about 200 lapua 6.5x55 swede brass new in box from a friend who borrowed my spare duck boat and hasnt returned yet. So rents due.

Any insite would be great if anyone using. Would be mostly a 1-600 yard gun for targets, yotes, and maybe deer. Was thinking a htg/tex stock w/ new steiner when they drop.

It isn't everyday you get to chamber a rifle in a Swede. Try that first. If you don't like that, there are a number of 6.5 chambers you can readily rechamber to. If you've found you don't like 6.5's in general then spend the money on a .30 cal.

FWIW, the one thing I don't like about the 6.5x55, like all Mauser cases, is the taper. It does not allow you to load hot with faster powders. All the .308 based cases and cases reduced from that, allow high pressure. The one thing you can do for this is improve the 6.5x55 case to something more standard. I WOULD NOT improve it to Ackley level, i.e. 40* shoulder. Keep the shoulder at 30*. Somewhere in the menagerie of wildcat cases the 6.5x55 has been improved to something more like a .308 shoulder diameter and 30* shoulder.

6.5's are just far more efficient than .30 cal's for ballistics per bullet weight. I think you ought to take advantage of that.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

It isn't everyday you get to chamber a rifle in a Swede. Try that first. If you don't like that, there are a number of 6.5 chambers you can readily rechamber to. If you've found you don't like 6.5's in general then spend the money on a .30 cal.

FWIW, the one thing I don't like about the 6.5x55, like all Mauser cases, is the taper. It does not allow you to load hot with faster powders. All the .308 based cases and cases reduced from that, allow high pressure. The one thing you can do for this is improve the 6.5x55 case to something more standard. I WOULD NOT improve it to Ackley level, i.e. 40* shoulder. Keep the shoulder at 30*. Somewhere in the menagerie of wildcat cases the 6.5x55 has been improved to something more like a .308 shoulder diameter and 30* shoulder.

6.5's are just far more efficient than .30 cal's for ballistics per bullet weight. I think you ought to take advantage of that.

I am curious why you would not Ackley improve the cartridge or go to a 40* shoulder?

 

[sandwarrior]

I am curious why you would not Ackley improve the cartridge or go to a 40* shoulder?

Specifically, it is the 40* shoulder I would avoid. I've said for many years while reloading, specifically wildcats, that the shoulder angle is like a pressure dam. The 30-06 has a 17.5* shoulder and holds almost no pressure back. That's why you can load it up. But, it takes a lot of volume to do that. The steep 40* shoulder builds pressure but stops flow. It's all about a balance of pressure vs. flow. Most of the modern crop of cartridges all use something a lot closer to 30* than 40* The steepest shoulder of any of the WSM's was 35*. Fred Huntingdon (founded RCBS) worked with his 6mm (6mm REM) and finalized it at 26* as optimum for powders we could reload with of the day.

Put simply, 40* is too steep for a 6mm, 6.5mm, even 7mm for a balance between pressure and flow. The people who saw this a while back found somewhere closer to 30* is optimal for increasing capacity (while remaining in a short case), allowing flow, and building enough pressure to make the cases efficient.

 

[sandwarrior]

He basically saw the first post and responded to it based on not loving the taper of the 6.5x55 (and wanting to use faster powder?). I dont think he noticed the 4 pages of a dozen shooters with thousands of rounds down the tube that refute his logic concerning the Swede in general. After all, the whole idea of AI is to reduce case taper and increase shoulder angle through fire-forming, both of those things help out the 55 case a lot.

I basically just ignored his post.

Maybe if you took the time to read and understand what I said, and also knew about the Ackley improved cases, you would see that what I recommend, if the OP does not like his 6.5x55, is to re-chamber it to something like an Ackley (with the case blown out) but only to 30*, not 40*. I have way more than 1000 rds. down the tube with this cartridge as well as a number of variations of it, and other Mauser/Mauser variations. You might think about what you say in regards to where you might help someone go with their issue. I think this poster has a world of good shooting fortune in front of him if he goes with the 6.5x55 Swede. I mention the drawbacks as they exist, not that I dislike the 6.5x55. In fact, I very much like the 6.5x55.

Unlike you, when I see something I may disagree with, I don't dis the poster, I address the issue and find out exactly what we both mean. And, I can agree to disagree.

 

[EasyGravy]

Its all good, noone meant any disrespect [MENTION=11748]sandwarrior[/MENTION] thank you to the post contribution. Every little bit of knowledge helps brother, and thats why we are here. We all need help

 

[PS-G1_Sniper]

Maybe if you took the time to read and understand what I said, and also knew about the Ackley improved cases, you would see that what I recommend, if the OP does not like his 6.5x55, is to re-chamber it to something like an Ackley (with the case blown out) but only to 30*, not 40*. I have way more than 1000 rds. down the tube with this cartridge as well as a number of variations of it, and other Mauser/Mauser variations. You might think about what you say in regards to where you might help someone go with their issue. I think this poster has a world of good shooting fortune in front of him if he goes with the 6.5x55 Swede. I mention the drawbacks as they exist, not that I dislike the 6.5x55. In fact, I very much like the 6.5x55.

Unlike you, when I see something I may disagree with, I don't dis the poster, I address the issue and find out exactly what we both mean. And, I can agree to disagree.

Point taken.
I mistook your meaning and didn't take the time to understand it. While I feel the 40 degree shoulder doesn't inhibit the cartridge as it naturally likes slow powders before improving and the case life/lack of trimming with added capacity outweighs any measurable drawbacks of this reduction in flow, I see you're not just another casual Swede doubter but someone with their own experienced view on it. After all, not everyone runs 28 and 30" barrels and super slow powders like I favor.

What have you noticed that this imbalance has resulted in? Obviously needless increases in pressure are never optimal, but are you saying a 30/32 degree shoulder would allow enough flow as to not spike pressures and thus be able to pack in more (perhaps faster) powder and pick up velocity over a 40 degree? Or something else?

 

[sav338lapua]

Wow this thread just warms my heart to no end!!!! I have been shooting a swede since 1984.
My 96 swede likes 140 amax's and 48 grains of IMR 4831 kept the original barrel to 27.5" giving right at 2900 and no signs of pressure. Iikes 50 grains of the same with 120 grain Amax's at 3050. Lots of deer have been harvested all one shot kills

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[sav338lapua]

Sorry this is the swede


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[PS-G1_Sniper]

What is it with 140 Amax's? They just seem to work. I've tried 140 VLD, 142 SMK 139 Scenar and nothing quite as good as my weight sorted 140 Amax. I think I have a good 1400 of them left just because I decided to put the bullet issue to bed.

I suppose Hybrids are next if anything.

 

[sandwarrior]

Point taken.
I mistook your meaning and didn't take the time to understand it. While I feel the 40 degree shoulder doesn't inhibit the cartridge as it naturally likes slow powders before improving and the case life/lack of trimming with added capacity outweighs any measurable drawbacks of this reduction in flow, I see you're not just another casual Swede doubter but someone with their own experienced view on it. After all, not everyone runs 28 and 30" barrels and super slow powders like I favor.

What have you noticed that this imbalance has resulted in? Obviously needless increases in pressure are never optimal, but are you saying a 30/32 degree shoulder would allow enough flow as to not spike pressures and thus be able to pack in more (perhaps faster) powder and pick up velocity over a 40 degree? Or something else?

PS-G1_Sniper,

I am glad you are a 6.5x55 fan! I am too. I think we can agree on that. I'm also a fan of using the slowest/high pressure powder I can in that case.
I have some issues with the original design (based off the G88, 7.92mm) but that doesn't mean it isn't the best 'all-around cartridge' (6.5x55) ever developed.

Most people, when they hear the name Ackley, think of 40* shoulders. The truth is he did two major things, (one of which was already done...kind of, with the 30-06 {but not intentionally}). The first was the 40* shoulder. This improved capacity according to him. What he {and we} didn't realize is it also sped up the burn rate of powders in the various cartridges it was loaded for. The second was 'blowing out the shoulder'. Again this was to increase capacity. It was secondary that he found the case gripped the walls of the chamber better. I have found the two best things to come out of his research was to 'find' where the shoulder belonged for each case/bore diameter and that throughout all of his research, having a chamber body that was almost squared up was optimal to having a chamber/casing with a large taper. Even though the taper was thought to work better at the time for extraction. Testing during the T-65 cartridges development (development of the 7.62x51 NATO) proved this out the best.

 

[Spuhr]

As i live in Sweden the access to low priced high quality 6,5 ammo makes the 6,5 a must!
I am both using standard and AI 40 degree and have shoot out a number Of barrels with them both.
First AI barrel i had was 24" lilja and I used to shoot 140 gr bullets at 3150 and 85 gr af 3770.....
That barrel had a rather short barrellife....

Now i am using 24" barrel with 130-140 bullets at 3000fps and barrellife seems to be up to 4000 rounds in Tikka original barrel.

 

[Spuhr]

Here is My Tikka T3 with factory barrel and a TRG stock. Magasine is finnish lynx 10 round centerfeed.
Trigger is Sako TRG

 

[Spuhr]

6.5x55 Swede users?

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Point taken.
I mistook your meaning and didn't take the time to understand it. While I feel the 40 degree shoulder doesn't inhibit the cartridge as it naturally likes slow powders before improving and the case life/lack of trimming with added capacity outweighs any measurable drawbacks of this reduction in flow, I see you're not just another casual Swede doubter but someone with their own experienced view on it. After all, not everyone runs 28 and 30" barrels and super slow powders like I favor.

What have you noticed that this imbalance has resulted in? Obviously needless increases in pressure are never optimal, but are you saying a 30/32 degree shoulder would allow enough flow as to not spike pressures and thus be able to pack in more (perhaps faster) powder and pick up velocity over a 40 degree? Or something else?

Not to bust anyones balls but I would trust sandwarrior`s word on anything regarding Mausers and their cartridges.

Another thing to consider, 40 degree shoulders are much harder to maintain than, say 30-degree shoulders.

 

[Backspace]

This is some great info. The second was also an AI correct? 4k rounds with 140s at 3k sounds pretty awesome to me.

As i live in Sweden the access to low priced high quality 6,5 ammo makes the 6,5 a must!
I am both using standard and AI 40 degree and have shoot out a number Of barrels with them both.
First AI barrel i had was 24" lilja and I used to shoot 140 gr bullets at 3150 and 85 gr af 3770.....
That barrel had a rather short barrellife....

Now i am using 24" barrel with 130-140 bullets at 3000fps and barrellife seems to be up to 4000 rounds in Tikka original barrel.

 

[EasyGravy]

[MENTION=29165]Spuhr[/MENTION] thats a very nice bangstick

 

[Backspace]

I wonder where he got that bad ass scope mount. Lol. I love my spuhrs.

 

[Rustybroadhead]

As i live in Sweden the access to low priced high quality 6,5 ammo makes the 6,5 a must!
I am both using standard and AI 40 degree and have shoot out a number Of barrels with them both.
First AI barrel i had was 24" lilja and I used to shoot 140 gr bullets at 3150 and 85 gr af 3770.....
That barrel had a rather short barrellife....

Now i am using 24" barrel with 130-140 bullets at 3000fps and barrellife seems to be up to 4000 rounds in Tikka original barrel.

This is exactly the info I have been looking for! Thank you very much Spuhr!

My stated goal from the beginning was 140grn bullet at 3000fps with good barrel life and low case maintenance. This is actually better barrel life then I expected and as a bonus, I will be running a 26" tube so my velocities with his exact load should be a little higher. Now if I can get his (and Layton's) superhuman accuracy.... I am set!

Nearly 3800 fps with and 85gr bullet... Talk about a prairie dogs worst nightmare!

What powder are you getting these results with and is it something we can get here? N560 perhaps?

 

[EasyGravy]

I will be running a 26" also

 

[Rustybroadhead]

I had my nose in a reloading manual last night and I came across some load data on IMR4064 and 120-130 grain bullets. Has anyone tried this powder in a swede?

Trying to come up with a good hunting load out of a 22in barrel with 125 nosler partitions....

Thanks

 

[EasyGravy]

^^ dude, I was just doing same thing. Theres 4064 data for 129gn

 

[Spuhr]

I used N165 for My AI loads

 

[Spuhr]

All groups shot with My previous Tikka T3 original barrel. Certainly nothing to win benchrest competitions with but certainly sufficient for My needs

 

[Rustybroadhead]

I used N165 for My AI loads

Thanks for the info you posted. I have been trying to research peoples experiences with the 6.5x55AI for a while but have had some difficulty finding real world experience. Your numbers on velocity and barrel life are exactly what I have been trying to find!

I will be on the lookout but it has been my experience that N165 has been hard to find lately but maybe I will get lucky. Great looking rifle by the way!

 

[EasyGravy]

Pffft. You could do quite well in br if you shifted that group.

 

[Layton]

Damn, I'm gone 2 days and there's 4 pages to try and read through. lol. Someone mentioned something about the reamer I used. If you're going with a non AI version like I did make sure you get the SKAN reamer. The standard American reamer has too short of a throat.

L

 

[Backspace]

Damn, I'm gone 2 days and there's 4 pages to try and read through. lol. Someone mentioned something about the reamer I used. If you're going with a non AI version like I did make sure you get the SKAN reamer. The standard American reamer has too short of a throat.

L

You are living in the past man. We have already negotiated the 140s up to 3000 in 24-26" barrels. Haha.

 

[PS-G1_Sniper]

By next week we'll have convinced the cartridge to deem wind irrelevant at this rate.

 

[sandwarrior]

Spuhr,

What kind of powder are you using to get those velocities? I was able to duplicate those with RE-17. But, it was way above where I should've been with that powder. My barrel was 24" and I typically got around 3400 with the 85 gr. pills in the standard case. About 3600 with the AI case. With the slower powders I didn't gain that much because of lower initial pressures. -Question answered

Damn, I'm gone 2 days and there's 4 pages to try and read through. lol. Someone mentioned something about the reamer I used. If you're going with a non AI version like I did make sure you get the SKAN reamer. The standard American reamer has too short of a throat.

L

Agreed. One of the best ways to be able increase velocity is increasing freebore.

 

[Spuhr]

For the 3150 with 140gr and 3770 with 85 i used N560 and N550, but those speeds and loads are to high, i do recomend against it

 

[PS-G1_Sniper]

For the 3150 with 140gr and 3770 with 85 i used N560 and N550, but those speeds and loads are to high, i do recomend against it

You're up early.

 

[Spuhr]

Here is some other long range "sticks" in 6,5x55, browning BAR and 1917 in swedish softmount.

The BAR is fantastic, you shoot 1 mil groups per magazine! In one 20 round burst

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

View attachment 44111View attachment 44112View attachment 44113

Here is some other long range "sticks" in 6,5x55, browning BAR and 1917 in swedish softmount.

The BAR is fantastic, you shoot 1 mil groups per magazine! In one 20 round burst

Am I seeing things or does the Browning have a pistol grip? Would you mind posting a pic of the rifle itself sir?

And how much did it cost? Full-auto?

Thank you sir.
Blake.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

This is exactly the info I have been looking for! Thank you very much Spuhr!

My stated goal from the beginning was 140grn bullet at 3000fps with good barrel life and low case maintenance. This is actually better barrel life then I expected and as a bonus, I will be running a 26" tube so my velocities with his exact load should be a little higher. Now if I can get his (and Layton's) superhuman accuracy.... I am set!

Nearly 3800 fps with and 85gr bullet... Talk about a prairie dogs worst nightmare!

What powder are you getting these results with and is it something we can get here? N560 perhaps?

Definition of good barrel life?

Again, not here to bust anyone`s balls but think in a larger context for a second. Youre talking 6.5-284 velocities, with a capacity right at or just below 6.5-284, I dont see a reason to expect anything other than 6.5-284 barrel life? Maybe with a chrome-lined barrel you could stretch it. Ive also heard Schneider`s barrels lasted longest in USMC testing but I havent seen the actual results so take that for what it is.

I also would say again, a 30 or 35-degree shoulder is gonna be preferable over a 40. One of Kelbly`s employees(Greg Walley?) ran his 6.5x55GWI to success in F-Open, you may want to check out that reamer as well.

 

[Spuhr]

Definition of good barrel life?

Again, not here to bust anyone`s balls but think in a larger context for a second. Youre talking 6.5-284 velocities, with a capacity right at or just below 6.5-284, I dont see a reason to expect anything other than 6.5-284 barrel life? Maybe with a chrome-lined barrel you could stretch it. Ive also heard Schneider`s barrels lasted longest in USMC testing but I havent seen the actual results so take that for what it is.

I also would say again, a 30 or 35-degree shoulder is gonna be preferable over a 40. One of Kelbly`s employees(Greg Walley?) ran his 6.5x55GWI to success in F-Open, you may want to check out that reamer as well.

I do absolutely agree with you.
And I don't promise a long barrellife with those velocities, but I got 4000 out of my Tikka Barrel.
But we also know that barrellife differs greatly betwen various makes and it's very possible that Another make would have given a far less barrellife.

 

[Spuhr]

Am I seeing things or does the Browning have a pistol grip? Would you mind posting a pic of the rifle itself sir?

And how much did it cost? Full-auto?

Thank you sir.
Blake.

Likely less than 200 dollars, yes definitely full auto.
Here is Another gun, but same model.

 

[fili.herrera]

I'm wondering what kind of chassis options there would be for the 6.5x55 and also if it is gonna be possible to get a custom LA with .750 bolt diameter with a standard bolt face...just in case you'd want to go up to 300WM with and extra bolt. Any answers for that gents?

 

[EasyGravy]

^^ you could stick it in any rem la. So anything that would fit remi 700 la would work i assume

 

[fili.herrera]

That was my understanding as well...

 

[EasyGravy]

I have an htg long action Im putting mine in. Cant see buying another stock when I have one. So Im just making an m40a1 imposter for my swede.

 

[fili.herrera]

That's gonna be sick! I wanna see that when you're done. I would like to do this in either a cadex, JAE, or AIAX. It's gonna be a complete new build for me, so I guess it's time to start window shopping. I'm hoping to get a defiance LA for it tho. What twist is gonna be most beneficial...I'm leaning towards 1/8

 

[Layton]

What twist is gonna be most beneficial...I'm leaning towards 1/8

8.5 is adequate for anywhere in North America. I'm at sea level and shooting 140 Hybrids with great success with an 8.5tw. Run the stability numbers for your normal weather variations and I think you'll find that 8.3-8.5 is about ideal.

L

 

[fili.herrera]

Layton: thanks! I'm new to this caliber completely and could use all the help I can get. I've always stuck to the NATO caliber a and now am trying to venture out a bit. It seems as tho this choice has a great balance between competition and practical use...without breaking the bank on components or having to wait forever or beg borrow or steal for them. I'm just hoping of putting this all together in a very modern package that I'm use to shooting behind...ie the chassis option with magazine fed capabilities.

338 LM is just getting a little to expensive and they don't let us shoot comps here at PNTC with that caliber. I understand why but I guess it's my fault for buying the damn thing and I love it!

 

[EasyGravy]

[MENTION=54738]fili.herrera[/MENTION] checkout few pages back in this post. [MENTION=71677]Backspace[/MENTION] found good deal on 6.5x55 lapua.

 

[fili.herrera]

[MENTION=101117]EasyGravy[/MENTION]...thanks...I'm enjoying this thread

 

[EasyGravy]

It all started when this crazy wild eye guy at gun club says, you should rebarrel that 30.06 to a swede. Then 20 pages later here we are

 

[Backspace]

We are all working on turing the Sweede into a cheaper version of the 6.5 SAUM. Should have it there in about 3 more pages. This thread is littered with great information though. I am leaning towards the improved version and 26" barrel. 140s up at 3k and beyone with barrel life in the 2-3k range is pretty good in my opinion. The cheap lapua brass is a big plus too.