Range Report 6 Creedmoor - 1st OCW - Your thoughts???

[mkollman74]

Hi All -

Well I finally got to take my newest boltgun to the range for a little load development. This is my first go around with using something close to the OCW method. First, a description of the rifle: She's a Badger M2008, set into a KRG W3 chassis, sporting a 8 twist Krieger barrel finished at 25". The trigger is a CG Extreme, and as the title states, its chambered in 6 Creedmoor. All work was done by JD (HSSS here on the 'Hide) of High Speed Shooting Systems.

After doing a bunch of reading, both here and elsewhere, I decided to run loads from 40.6 up to 41.8 grains of H4350 in 0.2 grain increments. For brass I used properly headstamped Hornady factory brass that I picked up from McCourt Munitions. I just grabbed the brass from the bags and loaded - no prep at all. I was pushing 105 Berger Hybrids, and getting the whole party started with FED 210M primers. All shots fired at 100 yards.

Alright then, now for the results. Please check out the pic below, and let me know how you would interpret what's there. Is 41.6 my load? Thanks in advance.

 

[mkollman74]

No thoughts?

 

[Shoottothrill]

Well my thoughts are this, it's a dam accurate rifle assuming that, that's at 100 yards. You don't state the distance. Try it at 300 yards might tell ya a bit more.

 

[mkollman74]

Well my thoughts are this, it's a dam accurate rifle assuming that, that's at 100 yards. You don't state the distance. Try it at 300 yards might tell ya a bit more.

Shoottothrill -

Thanks for your thoughts. You are right, I did forget to post the distance. Got that fixed that now. Having said that, is it common to run this type of test at distances greater than 100 yards? In the past, when I've run a ladder test, I'd do it at 300, but I thought OCW were usually at 100.

Thanks for the compliments on the rifle's accuracy so far. These are the first rounds put downrange after getting a quick zero established with a 40.0 grain load. JD builds a fine rifle.

 

[WinMag Elk Control]

Why would you tend to lean toward the 40.6 over the 41.4?

 

[psinclair]

Play with the seating depth.

 

[CanSniper]

What I see is that between 40.6 and 41 velocity changed very little. Which to me indicates a sweet spot. If you loaded up at 40.8 then ran a seating depth test with 2tho increments you would find a hell of a load that is not sensitive to changes in brass volume or charge differences. And seating depth will make it a one hole'r.

 

[Capt Academy]

That's an accurate rifle. Can you post a photo of her?

 

[psinclair]

I'm loading 41.6grs H4350 with the 105 Hybrids in my GAP 6 Creed with a 26" 1-7.5" 5R Bartlein for 3100fps. Ragged holes at 100M.

 

[mojojojo]

I'm a bit slow, but the 41.4 load for example, how is it possible to have a 3 shot goup with a ctc spread of 0.197" and have any space between bullet holes ? None of the groups match the measurements.

 

[mkollman74]

Why would you tend to lean toward the 40.6 over the 41.4?

I am leaning towards the 41.6, but to be honest, I am not sure I am interpreting things correctly.

 

[mkollman74]

I am leaning towards the 41.6, but to be honest, I am not sure I am interpreting things correctly.

Agreed, but with which charge weight?

EDIT: I meant to quote psinclair not myself.... Guess I need to not let the kiddos distract me when I am busy surfin' the 'Hide... But as I told trevor300WSM I am highly quotable...

 

[mkollman74]

I'm a bit slow, but the 41.4 load for example, how is it possible to have a 3 shot goup with a ctc spread of 0.197" and have any space between bullet holes ? None of the groups match the measurements.

I am subtracting the diameter (in inches) of the bullet. To be honest, I may need to re-look at that as I did it after a beer or two when I got home from the range .

 

[mkollman74]

I'm loading 41.6grs H4350 with the 105 Hybrids in my GAP 6 Creed with a 26" 1-7.5" 5R Bartlein for 3100fps. Ragged holes at 100M.

Yeah, I am looking hard at my 41.6 loading. I had no pressure signs at all from the 41.8. Should I do another OCW from 41.6 to 42.0+ in 0.2 increments? I don't wat to hot rod things, but qould like to get an OCW that does just at or under 3100fps.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Agreed, but with which charge weight?

You quoted yourself and then asked yourself a question?

 

[mkollman74]

I am subtracting the diameter (in inches) of the bullet. To be honest, I may need to re-look at that as I did it after a beer or two when I got home from the range .

Yeah, so a quick check on my math above, and it looks as though I took double credit for the diameter of the bullet. I usually measure outside to outside and subtract the diameter of the bullet. Looks like this time I measured center to center and still subtracted the diameter. I guess I should not do math after two double IPAs... Regardless, if I take the top numbers (prior to my erroneous subtraction) that is the C-to-C group size. Still doing around 0.5MOA before playing with seating depth or doing any brass prep at all, and with a brand new barrel that has 31 total rounds on it. I am still a happy camper with this rifle so far.

 

[mkollman74]

That's an accurate rifle. Can you post a photo of her?

You bet. I am not a photographer, but here you go. I am afraid they don't really do the rig justice (and just ignore the junk in the backgound)...

 

[mkollman74]

You quoted yourself and then asked yourself a question?

Yeah, I seem to be mangling this thread... Meant to do this -

Play with the seating depth.

Agreed, but with which charge weight?

 

[mkollman74]

You quoted yourself and then asked yourself a question?

By the way, I am highly quotable, just ask me...

 

[psinclair]

At your target velocity. I'm betting the sweet spot on seating depth will drill all of those loads. It did with my rifle. I wanted 3100fps and stopped increasing when I got to it.

 

[psinclair]

This meant more to me than the three or four sub .3" five shot groups at 100M I shot with the new barrel. There was plenty of mirage and a fair bit of wind when I put these ten shots on "Wolfie".

 

[mkollman74]

At your target velocity. I'm betting the sweet spot on seating depth will drill all of those loads. It did with my rifle. I wanted 3100fps and stopped increasing when I got to it.

I hope you are right. Thanks for all of your responses. I think I am falling in love with this caliber...

 

[mkollman74]

This meant more to me than the three or four sub .3" five shot groups at 100M I shot with the new barrel. There was plenty of mirage and a fair bit of wind when I put these ten shots on "Wolfie".

Nice looking rifle. Great shooting...

 

[psinclair]

Thanks. That's the third barrel for that rifle, the first two were chambered in 6XC. I like the Creed better.

Good luck with your new build. I'm sure you'll get it shooting the way you want it....

 

[Capt Academy]

Both of those are impressive rifles! The accuracy is outstanding!

 

[jeffersonv]

I haven't read the OCW page lately but I seem to recall something about your sought after group having more significance if it is closer to the center of the target.
If that's the case it looks to me like the load for the 41.4 group may be worth developing more.
Your 41.0 group looks pretty good too and I'm not sure the difference between .197 and .223 on this one test can be blamed on your loads or your rifle.

There doesn't look to be a lot of difference between any of those loads beyond what human error could account for which is what I get with my 6.5 CM. It makes it hard to find what your rifle likes best without thinking you are wasting some barrel life.

Maybe extend your range like Shoottothrill said.

 

[Grand]

I see a pattern of two shots touching and one shot dropping? Any pattern to the dropped shot i.e., 1st, or 3rd?

 

[damoncali]

You're not measuring your groups right. You can clearly see on the last target that the group size is more than 3 calibers, yet you've got it measured at .603".

 

[mkollman74]

You're not measuring your groups right. You can clearly see on the last target that the group size is more than 3 calibers, yet you've got it measured at .603".

Hmmm.... Looks OK to me... Each of the squares is 1/2 inch, and the calipers don't lie... In any case, don't care much about the groups anyhow as I am not a benchrester. Please tell me how I should be measuring them, and I will be happy to take your instruction (seriously, no sarcasm intended).

 

[damoncali]

Either do as you have in the picture (center to center), or measure outside to outside and subtract one caliber. Looks like you measured center to center *and* subtracted a caliber.

 

[mkollman74]

Either do as you have in the picture (center to center), or measure outside to outside and subtract one caliber. Looks like you measured center to center *and* subtracted a caliber.

Yes, as I noted in an earlier post, I did erroneoulsy subtract the caliber from the center to center measurement at first. The target you mentioned in your previous post was .603 C-T-C before subtracting the caliber. As the photo above demonstrates, the C-T-C seems to be correct.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

love me some 6cm, that is a sexy build. my build that looks just like that is in 7-08. well done. as far as accuracy, i like to test farther out too. i rarely shoot at 100, pretty much just to zero and call it a day.

 

[shoot4fun]

If I am reading your target correctly you started at 40.6 with a good zero and then just shot each load into three shot groups; no round robin as OCW requires. I think your next node will be a bit over 42 grains and will get you to 3100 if over pressure is not encountered. I would take 41.4 and work on seating depth. But I shoot in a far different climate than you and have to be very careful about moving up a node. My perfect OCW load in 243 started showing severe pressure signs when the ambient temp went up.

 

[mkollman74]

If I am reading your target correctly you started at 40.6 with a good zero and then just shot each load into three shot groups; no round robin as OCW requires. I think your next node will be a bit over 42 grains and will get you to 3100 if over pressure is not encountered. I would take 41.4 and work on seating depth. But I shoot in a far different climate than you and have to be very careful about moving up a node. My perfect OCW load in 243 started showing severe pressure signs when the ambient temp went up.

Hey Shoot4fun -

thanks for your reply. I did shoot this as a round robin. I posted my second go 'round here... http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...187143-6-creedmoor-2nd-ocw-your-thoughts.html you are right, at/just above 42 grains looks pretty good.

 

[JC Steel]

Those of you that are shooting the 6CREED, how many reloading are you getting out of your brass???

Thanks, I am also planning on running 105's with H4350

jake

 

[psinclair]

New 6 Creed barrel is "shooting in" well....from today.

Jake, I've got some brass with five firings so far and they look great. Pockets are still tight.

 

[Capt Academy]

Psinclair, what are the specs of your rifle. What is the barrel contour?

 

[psinclair]

GA Precision built
Surgeon 591
Bartlein #7 1-7.5" 5R, 26"
Badger M5
Jewell HVR
McMillan A5
S&B 4-16X50 PMII GenII/MIL
Near rings(34MM)
RAD brake

 

[Capt Academy]

That's one hell of a nice rifle!

 

[Capt Academy]

My 6 Creedmoor built by Moon of Crescent Customs arrived yesterday. Took it out and broke in the barrel with Berger 105's Hybrids using 41.5 H-4350 which shot well, but today I took it out and tried 42 grains of H-4350 @ 2.80 COAL and they shot better. The 3rd target is 6 shots with the 1st shot being my flyer, the other 5 grouped together. My info is recorded next to each group. Bottom info is another rifle on a sample target I used. So far, I have 48 rounds down the tube.

Rem 700 trued
Bartlien Barrel, 26" Med Palma
Badger DBM and Muzzle Break
Manner's T-5 Adj
Jewel Trigger
Leupold Mark 4 FFP

 

[paul2atlo8]

5 Shots in one hole , heck of a nice shooting rifle you probably don't want to sell her?
That's on a trued Remington, great work by your gunsmith and your loads !

 

[Capt Academy]

No way would I sell this rifle! I plan on shooting the barrel out. It's a great looking rifle that shoots very well. Moon did an outstanding job with the build!

 

[bjay]

New 6 Creed barrel is "shooting in" well....from today.

Jake, I've got some brass with five firings so far and they look great. Pockets are still tight.

Bad azz!! I got the same barrel.. do you have any info on what reamer spec were used?

 

[Capt Academy]

Jake, good to see you at the Score High Tactical Rifle Challenge. I think your going to really like the 6 Creed! So far, I only have two reloads on my first batch of brass, but it still looks very good. The 105 hybrids are great, but I have not shot any other bullet to compare it to, but they fly so well, no need to change.

 

[Capt Academy]

Took the 6 Creedmoor out for some distance shooting at steel. These are the results using 42 grains of H-4350 @ 2.80 OAL and the 105 Hybrids- 3168 fps
3 shots @600 yds
6 shots @ 656 yds
3 shots @ 712 yds, Took first shot, hit the head, adjusted elevation down and took 2 more.
4 shots @ 760 yds Again, first shot high, adjusted elevation down, then shot 3 more.

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

I had a 6mm Creedmore upper built by GAP. I picked up 120 rounds from Cooper Creek to test it with. This shoots GREAT. I now have brass that I got from Andrew at McCourt Munitions and was looking for a load to try. You guys post some good loads and I now a starting point. Thanks.

 

[Capt Academy]

Here is some info on the GAP 10 and bolt gun loads from GA Precision. Scroll to the bottom of the posts. Click on the 6 Creedmoor link below.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...depot/103774-**6-creedmoor**.html#post2576010

 

[bullseye13]

Damit. I need a 6 Creedmoor now.

 

[SingleShot85]

Pete,

I using IMR4350, I worked up from 40.0 I think, got the speed I wanted at 42.5 (3030fps) I'm running moly 115 Dtacs not for any particular reason other than I got a ton for cheap. As Pat has mentioned I played w/ seating depth and my groups are closing right up I got one more test to do before I start stock piling rounds

Gun: AIAE III
24" Benchmark Barrel

you can see some of my beginning loads and where I headed in above mentioned link. I absolutely love this gun

Doc Taylor

 

[mkollman74]

Nice shooting Capt Academy. I think my final load is 42.1 of H4350. I hope to get a chance to see how it will perform at distance soon. Its been too darn hot lately.