6 Creedmoor - SMALL RIFLE PRIMER
- Thread starter 6.5BR
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Check out a 6x47 lapua, this will be very close to what you are looking for.
This is a necked down 6.5x47 lapua.
R
This is a necked down 6.5x47 lapua.
R
What Rthur said.
Take a 6.5x47 case, which already comes with a small primer pocket, and neck it down to 6mm. Quality brass that will last a long, long time. Everybody I speak with that shoots the caliber gets at least 18 loadings from a piece of brass.
Take a 6.5x47 case, which already comes with a small primer pocket, and neck it down to 6mm. Quality brass that will last a long, long time. Everybody I speak with that shoots the caliber gets at least 18 loadings from a piece of brass.
I know some people will disagree but it's to much powder for a SRP. I know a lot of benchrest guy's tried the 6x47 and a lot of them came to the conclusion that they could not get consistent burn from that cartridge and attributed it to the SRP to Powder ratio. One of these guys is in the benchrest hall of fame so he knows what he is talking about :roll eyes: The 6 Creedmoor has even more powder yet so the problem would probably be even worse.
That all being said, both are an accurate cartridge but those benchrest guys won't accept anything but the absolute best.
That all being said, both are an accurate cartridge but those benchrest guys won't accept anything but the absolute best.
Guess you could call me a Benchrest shooter since I shoot 600yd Benchrest, albeit with a Tactical rifle, note how my 6 Creed is right in the thick of it against numerous 6BRs, a 6BRDXs, a couple 6BR Improved, 6.5Lapuas, actually would have won this agg if I had entered that part, groups 4 & 6 were "test" loads shooting VLDs, if I had entered the agg part I'd have used the DTACs and Hybrids for score,(1,2,3&5) and Mr Nagel's 6BRIMP would have finished behind my 6 Creed. Oh, and that's with 2 different rifles, too. Last sunday it all came together when I won B class and 2nd smallest group of the day, that was with my white rifle, you all have seen it here many times, lol
This makes me laugh if you are comparing the cost of Lapua brass against Hornady.
It is a $100 difference between 500 Hornady 6.5 CM cases and 500 Lapua 6.5x47 cases.
Compared to the thousands of dollars that are spent on rifle, scope, and gear; $100 is nothing.
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I meant the 100,000 piece order you would need to place with Hornady to have them run the 6cm with a small primer. Not comparing Lapua vs Hornady piece by piece...
I knew all about the 6x47L. Topic was due to folks comparing the 6CM to the 47 and bragging on case life etc in 47. Seems pockets would last longer in a CM w SR vs LR. Re: 6x47L having bad ratio - my smith is in the Hall of Fame - shoots 1.5" at 600....
My gunsmith, who holds state records with a 6BR, loves the 6x47L and is the person that turned me on to the caliber.
Man I hope my 6.5X47 doesnt ever figure out that it has too much powder for that SRP. I know these are probably not quite as tight as a benchrest rifle but you will have to forgive me, I left my farley rest at home along with my rear bag and shot these out of the back of a pickup prone with a harris bipod and makeshift sand bag filled with cat litter with factory ammo. And whatever you do don't tell the palma guys that shoot .308's with SRP's that they have too much powder either. Seriously though the SRP does give a more consistent burn in certain calibers and I would say a 6X47 lapua has the simple advantage of Lapua brass which is made way better and more consistent than other brass...this is a fact. I have read alot about primers and it seems to be an argument that will never end but there are tons and tons of articles that have been written about it over the years. German Salazar stated " “accuracy is more easily found when the influence of the primer on the overall pressure of the load is minimized.” I believe the combination is with primer, powder, case design and bullet choice everything has to work together. To say that that is too much powder for a small rifle primer to ignite is totally an incorrect statement, and has no basis of fact. Fill a 300 win mag size case with bullseye and touch off a small rifle primer behind it and see if it goes off...lol.
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Wow. You posted some 1 hole 100 yard groups. If you want to whip them out and compare I can do the same. I would hope with a match rifle you can shoot one hole groups at 100 yards.
.84" at 1k yards.
200 yard group shot last week:
300 yard shot with my 6.5
You however were missing my point. There is a balance between the amount of powder and the proper ignition to light it all off in a good manner. Of course a small primer will light off a 300wm but how's that ES gonna be? I'm saying when you get in the 40gr range it's getting to be borderline to much for a SRP if you want the most accuracy. You can post your groups all day long and argue but when someone who's in the hall of fame for benchrest shooting says so, I listen. I don't argu that my match rifle shoots one hole groups at 100 yards.
It's fairly well known that a SRP adequate up until about 40gr of powder. So when you're getting in the 38-41gr you are on the upper end of that.
Quoted from benchrest.com (so I'm not the only one saying it):
"When we were playing with the 308 small primers, the SD's were all over the place, I believe this was due to inconsistent ignition with the longer column of powder (jmho). I think the 6 x 47 is right at the max powder capacity to use the small primer and would perform exactly the same way with a large primer."
Although I can't say I disagree about what your friend said about 6x47L not being the top choice for benchrest for absolute consistent accuracy, ignition argument aside. I think we can agree that us tactical shooters need reliable repeaters that are accurate enough for our purposes. Therefore practically speaking, any 308 case head case sending a high BC bullet reasonably fast will work for us if it shoots 1/2 moa which all of them should do if built correctly. It then comes down to who has the best shooting day combined with a high skill set.
I have read about and talked to a few people about 308 SRP Lapua brass itself, and in various wildcats, that have had ignition problems. There exists a point where powder weight charge and ignition aren't cohesive, at what point that is is debatable. The 375CT cases are a good example of this. Even large rifle mag primers may or may not work right all the time in them.
The 6BR and wildcats based off of it seem to be the most consistently accurate long range cartridges but...guess what those benchrest guys take to the bench when the wind is up!?! Bigger cartridges launching heavy bullets with really high BC's. That doesn't work the best for us either for a number of different reasons.
So we are looking for a cartridge that fits our needs. Everybody looks at these needs slightly different though. Barrel life, brass life, cost per round for components, recoil energy, on and on, there are compromises to be made and individual priorities of each person. Other wise we'd all be shooting 308, right?
6x47L fits as does all the other 40 grains +- a few grains of powder 6mm's.
I just like the brass life of x47L and have never had any problems with the cartridge other than needing the bolt bushed and trying H-1000 which is too slow for it. I have always used CCI450 mag primers so can't comment on regular SRP.
Nice little group BTW!
Wow. You posted some 1 hole 100 yard groups. If you want to whip them out and compare I can do the same. I would hope with a match rifle you can shoot one hole groups at 100 yards.
.84" at 1k yards.
200 yard group shot last week:
300 yard shot with my 6.5
You however were missing my point. There is a balance between the amount of powder and the proper ignition to light it all off in a good manner. Of course a small primer will light off a 300wm but how's that ES gonna be? I'm saying when you get in the 40gr range it's getting to be borderline to much for a SRP if you want the most accuracy. You can post your groups all day long and argue but when someone who's in the hall of fame for benchrest shooting says so, I listen. I don't argu that my match rifle shoots one hole groups at 100 yards.
It's fairly well known that a SRP adequate up until about 40gr of powder. So when you're getting in the 38-41gr you are on the upper end of that.
Quoted from benchrest.com (so I'm not the only one saying it):
"When we were playing with the 308 small primers, the SD's were all over the place, I believe this was due to inconsistent ignition with the longer column of powder (jmho). I think the 6 x 47 is right at the max powder capacity to use the small primer and would perform exactly the same way with a large primer."
Easy killer, dont get your panties in a wad...lol. I was half ass making a joke, but my point was this I have shot and loaded the SRP .308 cases and found the speed is a bit more consistant than with LRP...both cases being Lapua, same length, weight sorted, prepped Identical as possible and the SRP was more consistent with a much less deviation. I have read all the same internet experts on this subject but if you actually dig for the facts what they fail to mention is that the ambient temperature plays a big part in the ignition reliability and the shape of the case as far as how the ignition flows through the powder. I agree that there is a line where you lose reliable ignition, but I disagree with your statement that it is as simple as a certain weight of powder. I read a bunch of stuff on all of these forums some you can actually see for the B.S. that it is, some you need to go out and just try for yourself and then you actually see how it actually works.
I have shot beside and talked to many of the guys in the BR hall of fame and believe there knowledge base is incredible, I also know they don't explore to much from the norm as far as whatever is winning is what they concentrate there efforts on. They are serious about the game they play, and don't waste time looking at things that don't seem to be winning at the matches. So before you go around talking as though this friend of yours is the final word on fact, know that there are plenty more like him and if you really want a good show get several of them hall of famers together and listen to how much they DON'T agree on...lol.
I don't claim to be an expert, But unlike you I don't just accept someone to tell me something doesn't work. I figure it out for myself, if it doesn't work then at least ill know why.
