6 vs 6.5mm - looking for guidance

[hkfan45]

I figured I would ask the best and brightest their thoughts on my decision to choose either a 6 or 6.5mm caliber for my next build. I have spoken with others off the forum and their help has been great. Now, I want your input so I can have another data point to consider. I have searched SH but was surprised that there were not many threads comparing the 6 to the 6.5. I'm guessing most understand the differences, but I'm still a novice to intermediate in terms of experience/skill level.

Here is my criteria:

1. Anticipated usage: Target, but possibly hunting. Needs to perform extremely well at 100-200 yards, but also need the ballistics to go to 1000 yards.
2. Low recoil. I have a 308 tube gun, but even with a brake, the recoil is too much for my wife. I need a *substantial* reduction in recoil.
3. AICS magazine fed. Must feed reliably.
4. Reloading ease - no fireforming. Large accuracy nodes. Not finicky.
5. Component availability and selection - Do not want to be in a situation where components dries up, or worse, becomes "old" and obsolete as shooters move to the "next big thing."
6. Barrel life - not a huge consideration, but want decent life (1500+)

I've done some research and it seems for 6mm, the 6XC is my best bet. For 6.5, the 6.5x47L is my best bet. So, I believe comes down to 6 versus 6.5.

Does the B&B have any input?

 

[DetroitRearView]

6.5x47L

light recoil
well designed tapered case with small rifle primer
easily shoots 1000
good to go on small and medium game

I use my 338L for Elk
6,5x47 for deer, antelope, coyotes...etc

 

[shaggyaggie01]

I am definitely not the best, and probably not the brightest, but I'll give it a shot:

1. Anticipated usage: Target, but possibly hunting. Needs to perform extremely well at 100-200 yards, but also need the ballistics to go to 1000 yards.

this is true for either 6mm or 6.5.

2. Low recoil. I have a 308 tube gun, but even with a brake, the recoil is too much for my wife. I need a *substantial* reduction in recoil.

6mm will beat the 6.5 in this realm, a 105 grain bullet will always recoil less than a 140 grain one. neither one recoils much, though.

3. AICS magazine fed. Must feed reliably.

this will depend on what rifle and cartridge you pick more than anything.

4. Reloading ease - no fireforming. Large accuracy nodes. Not finicky.

again, this is more dependent on the specific cartridge and rifle than the bullet diameter

5. Component availability and selection - Do not want to be in a situation where components dries up, or worse, becomes "old" and obsolete as shooters move to the "next big thing."

6mm is probably more tried and true here, but i don't see either one "drying up". if you pick .243 win or 260 rem, 308 cases will be around after armegeddon.

6. Barrel life - not a huge consideration, but want decent life (1500+)

6.5 > 6mm, but depends on cartridge choice.

 

[hkfan45]

The one thing swaying me towards the 6.5x47L is brass. Lapua brass and it seems that it's easier to find than Norma XC. Norma xc brass is OOS everywhere and won't return to Dave Tubbs until at least July. I've also had great experience with lapua, no experience w/ Norma.

Is brass availability a stupid reason to choose a caliber, especially if the 6XC is the more appropriate caliber for me?

 

[blackblue]

If you are considering the 6xc why not the 6x47L.

 

[hkfan45]

If you are considering the 6xc why not the 6x47L.

I was under the impression the 6x47L required sizing that can be tricky (i.e. crushed shoulders). I wanted something easy to load.

 

[Goin'Hot]

I was under the impression the 6x47L required sizing that can be tricky (i.e. crushed shoulders). I wanted something easy to load.

Necking down to 6mm is easy. I ran 100 cases and didn't have any issues. Just put some lube on there. You need a FL die to size them down.

 

[Hawk45]

What are your hunting ranges and expected targets? That is going to be the biggest determination of proper caliber. Either will do fine ballistically to 1K on paper.

Also, is this rifle for you or your wife? If you and your wife are sharing rifles, are you the same size? If not properly fitted it won't be pleasant for her to shoot. A braked 308 should shoot like a .223. If a .308 with a brake is too much recoil, you may have a few different options. Get a better brake, get a better recoil pad, work on form.

 

[Steelhead]

Per your "availability" requirement.......during the "panic buying" spree, I was able to find 6.5 Creedmoor components everywhere.

 

[hkfan45]

Hunting may not play huge a role, since I still plan on using my 308 for this. The rifle will be used by both myself and my wife. I have no issue with the 308 w/ a brake, but my wife, who is considerably smaller, finds it has too much "kick." However, I am also buying this rifle so that I may use it at 600-1000 yards without the wind issues that I will battle w/ the 308. Of course, I would be lying if I didn't say that part of the motivation is that I have an itch for another build and want to try something new.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Most people go about this the wrong way. They decide on a caliber and have it built, THEN they start looking for dies, brass, powder, and bullets. Buy up your components and get a good supply and then have the rifle chambered.

Go with the 6.5x47. We shoot alot of them and 2500-3000 rounds in not uncommon. Also, you can buy 2 boxes of brass (200pcs) and those two boxes will last the lifetime of the barrel if you take care of them. This caliber will shoot well with H4350, Varget, 4007SSC, IMR4350, RL17, and a few others, so you should always be able to find some powder for it.

You will get alot of recommendations, but listen to the people who aren't "caliber biased". I've owned most all of them and currently shoot a 6XC, 6.5x47, and having a 6x47 chambered.

Also, just for reference, going from 6.5x47 to 6x47 is just a single pass thru a Forster FL die and some One Shot spray lube. However, you will get a little less barrel life from the 6 vs the 6.5.

 

[hkfan45]

Most people go about this the wrong way. They decide on a caliber and have it built, THEN they start looking for dies, brass, powder, and bullets. Buy up your components and get a good supply and then have the rifle chambered.

Go with the 6.5x47. We shoot alot of them and 2500-3000 rounds in not uncommon. Also, you can buy 2 boxes of brass (200pcs) and those two boxes will last the lifetime of the barrel if you take care of them. This caliber will shoot well with H4350, Varget, 4007SSC, IMR4350, RL17, and a few others, so you should always be able to find some powder for it.

You will get alot of recommendations, but listen to the people who aren't "caliber biased". I've owned most all of them and currently shoot a 6XC, 6.5x47, and having a 6x47 chambered.

Also, just for reference, going from 6.5x47 to 6x47 is just a single pass thru a Forster FL die and some One Shot spray lube. However, you will get a little less barrel life from the 6 vs the 6.5.

Trevor,

Thanks for the great response. Aside from component availability (I'm sure I can find 6XC brass eventually and could stock up as you suggest), is there another reason you suggest the 6.5x47L over the 6XC or 6x47L?

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

In 6mm, no choice will match the component availability of 243. Winchester, Remington, Lapua brass (and others).

 

[Trevor300wsm]

None, other than the reduced barrel life of the 6 and the ability to shoot a slightly heavier bullet with the 6.5 if you chose to hunt anything with it.

I love my 6XC. It's done really well for me this year in matches. I have right at 900 rounds fired thru it since January. I have zero complaints about it. The Norma brass is very good quality. I have 6 firings on some of it now and it's still holding up very well.

I prefer the 6mm's personally, but I have accepted the fact that barrels are consumables items just like brass and bullets. Alot of people can't handle this. I'm going to shoot out 1-2 barrels a season in matches and practice. I prepare for it and accept it.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

In 6mm, no choice will match the component availability of 243. Winchester, Remington, Lapua brass (and others).

This. The 308 family of cartridges is also the easiest I've ever loaded for, they're not finnicky in the least bit. Make sure you get the appropriate twist for the bullets you're planning to shoot and pick a powder that works for what you need and you'll have no trouble finding a load.

 

[Hawk45]

If hunting won't be a big part the the options are wide open. I'm a fan of standards and try not to get wrapped up in wildcats or the new flavor of the year. I shoot .243 and .260 and they do everything I've asked. That being said, Lapua does offer brass in the the 6.5x47, so that would possibly be an option if I didn't shoot the .260. Your wife will prefer the 6s to the 6.5s. Ballistics of the two are close enough with heavies. Barrel life favors the 6.5s and misses will be a bit easier to see with the 6.5 as well. I'd suggest a 6.5, but I love the 6s as well. The only downside to the 6.5 is the slightest more recoil. And if it's an issue, get a good break and recoil pad (limbsaver). Best of luck.

 

[damoncali]

Recoil means you want a 6, not a 6.5. A 6XC has good brass available off the shelf and is very easy to load for, but it's no where near as popular as a .243. Just make sure it's got a twist and throat for 107's so you can use it at long range.

 

[Abandoned ship]

243 or 6cm.

if you have a 308 to hunt with then 6mm is perfect for her.

243 is plenty for a white tail deer.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Id go with a 6 Dasher or 6x47 Lapua. Dont listen to the naysayers there are plenty of 6mm Dasher repeaters out there, it can be done and works well. The 6 Dasher will do 3100 fps give or take with the 105gr bullets which is just as fast as most of the longer cases. Reason I say go with the Dasher or 6x47L is because both of these use small primer brass: its stronger and holds up to hot loads better, or mild-standard loads with longer brass life(primer pockets stay tight longer). Not to mention, with the Dasher its impossible not to find an accurate-as-hell load. .1-.2 MOA groups are common with those things.

 

[ZLBubba]

I personally favor the 6mms, specifically the 6XC and 6Creed. With the availability of brass becoming better and better, you're hard pressed to find softer shooting, more accurate, and easier cartridges to load for. They're great rounds.

 

[JGorski]

I don't think I have to tell you guys what 6mm I'd go with.

 

[JB02]

243 Win. Simple and easy. Brass is easy to find. No fire forming. Don't need to rely on expensive brass. Been around for ages and there is a ton of reloading data, easy to get dies and other other reloading components. Recoil is very mild, no muzzle brake needed. Be sure to get it with the right twist, (1/8 or faster), and have it throated for either 105s or 115s, depending on how much you are willing to spend on bullets. You should be able to get 2K-3K rounds through it depending on how hard you push it.

 

[SWRichmond]

I see you mentioned 1000 yard target shooting. if the rifle is to be used in sanctioned competitions a muzzle brake will disqualify it.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Choice in components and suppliers while being easy to find and make when the times are tough with little to nothing done other than using a resizing die... shouts 260. For a 6mm I’d look close at the 243 and just keep the load/node in the next one down until you have a reason to load it to the top. No other 6mm is as easy to find, YMMV, but I have never seen 6xc, 6.5x47L nor anything with the Creedmoor name at any walk in store near me... its internet only sales. That said I like the 6xc barrel I acquired... but I am sure I would feel the same if it wore a Creedmoor or Lapua on the headstamp.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Choice in components and suppliers while being easy to find and make when the times are tough with little to nothing done other than using a resizing die... shouts 260. For a 6mm I’d look close at the 243 and just keep the load/node in the next one down until you have a reason to load it to the top. No other 6mm is as easy to find, YMMV, but I have never seen 6xc, 6.5x47L nor anything with the Creedmoor name at any walk in store near me... its internet only sales. That said I like the 6xc barrel I acquired... but I am sure I would feel the same if it wore a Creedmoor or Lapua on the headstamp.

The way I read the OP, he doesn't want to form brass at all, to include 308-->260 or 243--260 or 6.5x47-->6x47.

However, he makes no mention of being able to buy brass at the LGS.

If internet brass is OK, I'd argue anything with the Lapua head stamp is a winner. Throughout the last 2 years, you could almost always find Lapua brassin stock. Because the OP doesnt seem interested in screwing around with brass, I'd argue something that says "Lapua" would be a great choice!

Back to the original question: 6.5mm or 6mm?

Either will do all you require, but 6 wins on low recoil WHILE MAINTAING top ballistic performance. Sure you can load light bullets in a 6.5, but a ~120gr 6.5 doesn't shoot like a ~105-115 6mm does.

I think 6mm is the answer. Your wife will be delighted by both the utter lack of recoil and how well she can connect on targets with it.

Lapua makes nice 243 brass!

 

[mkollman74]

6 creed or 6.5 creed. I went with the 6. Many others will also get the job done as I am sure you are aware. I like the creed cartridge design and brass has been easy for me to find. I use properly headstamped brass, but could use 6.5 brass as well. Hardest part about the 6 for me has been finding my 105 hybrids. with a bit of diligence I have ended up with 2500+, so no real problem, just a bit of effort.

 

[majohnson2]

The benefit that the 6mm family has over the 243 is case design. The 243 has been a proven cartridge for a long time, but some modern design has help create a more efficient cartridge. Moving that shoulder to 30 degrees + - helps with brass movement. The longer case neck help with keeping some of the burning in the case improving barrel life. 6mm also generates similar to the 243 with less powder. It really is a tough choice in the group. Bugholes did a good review, using barrels all cut from the same billet. Doing it that way reduces that one variable barrel differences. Bugholes is also a knowledgeable and talented gunsmith, with him doing all the work it take out another set of variables. There are several other articles around the net. I've been shooting a 6.5 and I have a rifle out being rebarreled from 308 (with less then 100 rds) to 6mm. There have been several records with a lot of the different 6mm rounds.

 

[O_W]

i chose and continue to choose 243AI. AND before you freak out about 'not wanting to fire form' think about it this way. you can shoot any regular 243 with the same performance and you don't waste barrel life fire forming. once you have the brass set you get a ton of life for it. My main reason was in matches you loose a lot of brass so cheap 243 brass was easier to deal with.

After running it now for 3+ years and several barrels I am still super impressed. I only run it at 3075 so not super hot but same performance as 6CM and cheap brass and availability to run factory ammo. just something else to think about. 6CM is also a super choice.

 

[Advokaten]

Unsure of this has been mentioned in the thread but the 6,5 has very good bullets from 85 grains, the 105-ish ones that has great BC and all the way up to the 140 grain bullets, making the 6,5x47L a perfect candidate in a short action,

I have and have shot both the 6XC and the 6,5x47, love them both dearly, I shoot my 6,5 tighter at shorter ranges, 0-400 meter and my XC at 4-1000 meters, it could all be the set up of the rifle or it could be that the rounds have there optimized ranges in those intervalls.

For the op and his wife I would suggest the 6,5x47L, with a purchase of 300 cases one can burn a barrel and then come back to tell us all about the experience. /Chris

 

[Surly]

I currently have a Cooper 6.5-284 Norma and absolutely love it for larger game. However, I wanted to build a coyote/medium game rifle that has lower recoil than my 6.5 while still retaining exceptional ballistics. I wanted a rifle that would also serve for a paper puncher as well. So, I chose the 6xc for its reputation and proven track record.

As far as 6.5 vs 6, there is a reason 6mm is more prevalent in high power comps over the 6.5. If you research this you will find this to be accurate.

Component wise, the market will eventually level out and brass availability will be what it once was. IMHO.

Surly

 

[hkfan45]

Thank you all for the very helpful comments. I think I am leaning towards a 6mm. Next step is what chassis system to use. I really like my Eliseo on my 308, but there are so many others to consider.

 

[Dutch shooter]

One thing I can say is that the 6.5MM will beat the 6mm in;
= using it as a hunting rifle
= recoil of the 6.5 / 6 mm is almost the same
= Reloding 6.5MM is easy ( same bolt diam. as a .308)
= Barrel life of a 6.5 is much better than a 6 MM specially with a hotter load.
= I know 6.5 mm rifles with 8000 rounds life and still performing well.
= Components are easy here in Europe I have no idea what that is in the USA

Hope it will help!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

One thing I can say is that the 6.5MM will beat the 6mm in;
= using it as a hunting rifle
= recoil of the 6.5 / 6 mm is almost the same
= Reloding 6.5MM is easy ( same bolt diam. as a .308)
= Barrel life of a 6.5 is much better than a 6 MM specially with a hotter load.
= I know 6.5 mm rifles with 8000 rounds life and still performing well.
= Components are easy here in Europe I have no idea what that is in the USA

Hope it will help!

6.5mm does have a advantage over 6mm for larger game but the rest of your assessments are a bit off. In the same weight rifles the recoil difference is night and day. A couple weeks back I put a few rounds through a friends custom 243 shooting 105's that probably weighs 15lbs and my AI 6.5 shooting 140's that weighs 18lbs and even those his was lighter it had much less recoil.

Reloading for a 6mm is no more complicated and most of them share the 308 bolt face as well. Barrel life is also a wash, it comes down TP the individual powder choice, how hot you run it, and how you shoot it. Components aren't easier to find for any other 6mm or 6.5mm than they are for 243.

The only real advantage 6.5mm has to 6mm is retained energy and bullet mass for spotting your hits and misses. That's it. Other than that the 6mm shoots flatter, has less wind drift, and less recoil.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

If barrel life is not a concern, then .243 will fit all of your criteria. Additionally you can download it for 100-200 yard shooting if recoil is really a concern and it will extend your barrel life a bit. .243 is a capable hunting round and components are readily available. No fireforming required (as long as you don't go AI).

You didn't mention competition, so running the ragged edge of performance is not necessary and the .243 has been around for a long time. It's not going anywhere soon.

 

[mkollman74]

Just do what I did... Pick one and go shoot it. Hard to make a poor choice. I would see what components I could find that would last me through a barrel or two and go that route. You can think about it (which can be quite interesting) or you can build it and shoot it.

 

[malsa82]

Can someone please elaborate on barrel life? I was under the impression that you'd get much better barrel life out of a 6.5 vs 6mm...

 

[Advokaten]

That all depends on the pressures that one allows the barrel/round to work under, hotrodding a 6,5x47L or Creedmoore and they to will eat up the barrel. /Chris