6GT, 25x47, or other?

[penguinofsleep]

Haven't been keeping up on all of the developments with 6GT and 25x47 recently. Looking for the cartridge with less fuss with load development and magazines. Will be using in a short action CDG with 308 bolt face and would like to be able to use existing AW mags.

"Magazine related" as no or minimal magazine tuning, magazine part swaps, having to constantly make precise mag latch adjustments, and whatever else.
"Load development" includes (but not limited to) not HAVING to use any one powder or projectile and not waiting over a year for brass given how spotty availability has been in the last few years and probably the foreseeable future. Would like 2k+ barrel life which is very possible from either cartridge from what I understand. Also includes being likely to shoot <0.4"-0.5" groups with just an initial ladder test (for safety and approximate velocities), testing within a 1 or 1.2gr range of charge weight, and a course seating depth test.

Lastly - not looking for another 6.5x47. It has met all of the criteria above and has been fuss free with load development and mags up to now though.

6GT - How are AW magazines with 6GT? Otherwise, it seems like load development isn't as easy as 6BR family cartridges and the nodes aren't as wide, but overall still easier than hard. Seems like other criteria will probably be met.
25x47 - How is load development for 25x47? I don't see anything saying it's as easy as 6.5x47 but nothing saying it's particularly difficult either. I do see that 6x47 is typically not nearly as easy as 6.5x47. I'm OK with necking down 6.5x47 once. Seems like other criteria will be met - less projectile choice but they're still readily available.

Other options I'm open to:
6BR or 6Dasher - seems like everyone everywhere says load development is easy. Minimal feedback on use with AW mags though and it ranged from good to really bad. Yes, I could just get some AI pattern mags with whatever followers, kits, tuning, etc. but if that's what it needs, I'd rather just get one of the above.
25 creed - Don't see much feedback about 25 creed load development being particularly easy or difficult, but 25 creed may or may not get 2k+ barrel life. Will most likely meet other criteria.
Whatever else someone really likes.

 

[giumau1]

bought a CDG within the first five minutes from the go live on arc website. Like you I handload to shoot and not vice versa.
Shot a lot of 6 and 6.5 creed at matches, I went Dasher and never looked back.
You can stuff it with a bunch of different powders ( Varget, h4350, n140, n150, n160 ) to name a few and as many pills ( 105 and 109 bergers, dtacs, 107smk, 105 Scenars…
Gray ops mags are superb and also 308 ai aw mags with hrd work well ( hard to find these days, I have been lucky to nail four last year) all worked flawlessly out of the box with the CDG.
Brass-wise, Alpha is good, Peterson too but they have a grain less of h20 capacity so stay with varget-speed powder if you plan to go that route. Fireformed Lapua is what Dasher F-class shooters use, but to me is a royal pain and overkill for PRS or plinking.

 

[Lightning8]

I have been running 6 Dasher for last 2 seasons of PRS - 105 Hybrids and Varget last season and 115 DTACs and Varget this season. Do not think you can go wrong with 6 Dasher. Using Alpha brass and CCI450s.

Just built a 25x47 - wanted to try it. Doing load development now. Bushing die with .281 bushing easy form brass from 65x47. Seating with 65x47 seater. Tried H4350 and Varget so far. Purposely running "slow" so looking at 2650 to 2750 fps. Using 134 ELDMs. Only issue I see with 25s is bullet selection (and availability). 134ELDMs or 135 Bergers or 133 Bergers or "customs". Using Lapua 65x47 brass and also Peterson 65x47 brass with CCI450s. Alpha just announced 25x47 brass.

 

[LuvDog]

I’m thinking about 25 cal too and was wondering between 25GT and 25x47. Any other feedback on those?

 

[Cody S]

I'd do 25 creedmoor. they shoot good just shy of 3k fps In a 28" tube.
but I'm a big fan of the 6 creeds recoil so I'll stick with it.

 

[Birch7]

Just shot my 6gt and 25x47 back to back yesterday. 109 at 2900, 134 at 2850…both heavyish loads. Load dev has been super easy with varget and h4350. 25 has better wind numbers and noticeably more recoil. Can’t comment on AW mags, but if bullet selection is an issue , the 25 doesn’t give you many options.

 

[penguinofsleep]

Gray ops mags are superb and also 308 ai aw mags with hrd work well ( hard to find these days, I have been lucky to nail four last year) all worked flawlessly out of the box with the CDG.
Brass-wise, Alpha is good

Good info on Peterson brass and powder limitations. Thanks.

Not directed at your specifically, but I saw the HRD kits before but don't see any of them available now - don't want to base an entire build around a small hard to acquire out of production part. Gray ops mags look very good but also very $$ - I get this isn't a cheap hobby, but don't want to spend extra $ if a no extra money option is already being used with boring reliability.
With this being said, I did see 3D print files for a kit similar to the HRD kits available... does this imply that there are other similar options out there readily available? I most likely don't have access to the right type of 3D printer to print the parts myself but maybe someone else here does and has tried it?

 

[Cody S]

that's another reason why I went with 6 creed.
many thousands of rounds later in normal AW mag, nary a problem.

 

[Overwatch260]

@penguinofsleep I'll be testing my new 6GT build hopefully on Tuesday... It's a Solus action feeding from AW mags so I'll be sure to let you know how it goes

 

[Kadams1563]

6GT is an easy button. I have found load development easy for it using Alpha brass, 35-37 grains of H4350, 108 or 109 ELD’s. The numbers for that spread of powder drop were all almost under 10 SD.

Just load it up and go shoot.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Just do a 6 bra 28" running 105s or 109 hybrids at 28-2850. With new grey ops aw mags it's a match made in heaven. The fireform br loads are so accurate you can compete with them.

Brass will last forever. Stupid easy to load for. Soft shooting for easy spots. Barrel like should go about 3000.

I shoot a 6gt and am too invested to change now. If starting from scratch, the bra is easy mode.

 

[FuhQ]

Haven't been keeping up on all of the developments with 6GT and 25x47 recently. Looking for the cartridge with less fuss with load development and magazines. Will be using in a short action CDG with 308 bolt face and would like to be able to use existing AW mags.

"Magazine related" as no or minimal magazine tuning, magazine part swaps, having to constantly make precise mag latch adjustments, and whatever else.
"Load development" includes (but not limited to) not HAVING to use any one powder or projectile and not waiting over a year for brass given how spotty availability has been in the last few years and probably the foreseeable future. Would like 2k+ barrel life which is very possible from either cartridge from what I understand. Also includes being likely to shoot <0.4"-0.5" groups with just an initial ladder test (for safety and approximate velocities), testing within a 1 or 1.2gr range of charge weight, and a course seating depth test.

Lastly - not looking for another 6.5x47. It has met all of the criteria above and has been fuss free with load development and mags up to now though.

6GT - How are AW magazines with 6GT? Otherwise, it seems like load development isn't as easy as 6BR family cartridges and the nodes aren't as wide, but overall still easier than hard. Seems like other criteria will probably be met.
25x47 - How is load development for 25x47? I don't see anything saying it's as easy as 6.5x47 but nothing saying it's particularly difficult either. I do see that 6x47 is typically not nearly as easy as 6.5x47. I'm OK with necking down 6.5x47 once. Seems like other criteria will be met - less projectile choice but they're still readily available.

Other options I'm open to:
6BR or 6Dasher - seems like everyone everywhere says load development is easy. Minimal feedback on use with AW mags though and it ranged from good to really bad. Yes, I could just get some AI pattern mags with whatever followers, kits, tuning, etc. but if that's what it needs, I'd rather just get one of the above.
25 creed - Don't see much feedback about 25 creed load development being particularly easy or difficult, but 25 creed may or may not get 2k+ barrel life. Will most likely meet other criteria.
Whatever else someone really likes.

I'm building a .25 Creed on a Solus action right now. Just waiting on the barrel now...

Alpha Munitions just released their new .25x47 SRP brass... If that helps make your choice...

https://alphamunitions.com/product/25x47/

And they sell .25 GT brass...

25 GT (Small Rifle Primer) | Alpha Munitions

– Optimized Case Design with Optimized Case Head Technology -100 count boxes ship in custom Alpha Munitions plastic cases with perforated bi-layer foam for protection of cases and loaded ammunition...

alphamunitions.com

And .25 Creedmoor SRP brass...

https://alphamunitions.com/product/25-creedmoor-srp-small-rifle-primer/

 

[SEMO Shooter]

I've been using a 6GT on a Surgeon action mounted in a Manners stock since 2019. With Berger 105's and 34.5 gr. of Varget I get 3000 fps mv with a SD under 10. I tested with Varget from 33.5 to 35.3 and accuracy was good on every load. I settled on 34.5 because it yielded the tightest groups. I tested H4350 too, but Varget groups a little better in my rifle. I am using the same AW magazines that I used when the rifle had a 260 barrel. I seldom have any feed issues, and if I do it's because the rifle is sitting on the mag. It was the same way when it was a 260.

 

[penguinofsleep]

Just do a 6 bra 28" running 105s or 109 hybrids at 28-2850. With new grey ops aw mags it's a match made in heaven. The fireform br loads are so accurate you can compete with them.

Brass will last forever. Stupid easy to load for. Soft shooting for easy spots. Barrel like should go about 3000.

I shoot a 6gt and am too invested to change now. If starting from scratch, the bra is easy mode.

It seems like most people who shoot 6BRA use H4895 (almost impossible to find and I don't already have some) where as most people shooting 6GT, 6BR, and 6Dasher use Varget - part of why I was trying to avoid 6BRA. Was there a particular reason why you feel 6BRA would be easier than 6GT? Is it just the load development process?

 

[Cody S]

another reason to like the creedmoor, H4350 and n555 is readily available.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

It seems like most people who shoot 6BRA use H4895 (almost impossible to find and I don't already have some) where as most people shooting 6GT, 6BR, and 6Dasher use Varget - part of why I was trying to avoid 6BRA. Was there a particular reason why you feel 6BRA would be easier than 6GT? Is it just the load development process?

Most of the people I know running them are running Varget or N140. H4895 has been impossible to find for years, like 8202 and Trailboss.

The 6GT was a solution to feeding issues with the dasher and BR. At the time there were not mags designed around the BR/Dasher like today and many of the kits did not work great.

It also allowed you to use H4350 as an option vs varget/n140, making it more versatile and easier to find powder for.

Its still a great round but one thing I have noticed is when I download it, 2700-2900 fps, I get higher ES/SD than when I run it about 2900+. Everything is the same except powder charge. As the powder charges go up, the ES/SD goes down. The last 2 day I shot was 2740 and had an 8.5 SD. I just threw a load together that came out around 2870 for a match I shot today. 10 shot across chrono was 4.5SD. My 2940 loads are 3 SD. So my theory is the higher case % percentage you have, the better ignition you get resulting in more consistent externals.

6BR has been around a long time. Its beyond proven. You almost cannot make them shoot poorly. Pick a charge weight and go. The BRA lets you blow out that shoulder a bit more so you can run at a higher velocity at lower pressure. This will not only preserve your brass, but result in longer barrel life. You also have excellent Lapua brass which untill recently, was cheaper and i will argue is better than Alpha OCD. Now Lapua is coming out with 6GT brass, but the price increases make them cost more than Alpha.

Grey Ops released a new BR/Dasher mag that is nothing short of amazing. Every single person I have talked to , including 2 guys I squared with today, have nothing but great things to say about it. A 12 round AW mag that feeds flawlessly, and can be taken completely apart to clean/maintain.

Nothing wrong with the 6GT. it can easily win. But If I was starting fresh today, The BRA or Dasher would probably be my choice. Its just a bit more efficient round that is easier to load for with better component availability and mags.

 

[Cody S]

I will admit, now that alpha has stamped 6 BRA brass...
no, I must stick with the creedmoor... all these damned reamers and dies.

 

[CK1.0]

I run a 6GT, slow, like a Dasher wannabe, ~2800fps w/ 32 grains of SW Precision Rifle (SDs average ~5 over 20 shots) and it's great if you already have standard mags. I've shot it at ~2900 too, and the only thing that changed when I slowed it down is that now I can tell you which way a plate shook inside 400 yards much easier. As said, it offers powder flexibility in that you can run faster stuff like Varget/SWPR/N140 as well as H4350/RL16/N555 stuff, but IMHO/IME there's more magic there with the faster Varget-alikes, run slow it behaves just like a Dasher that uses regular mags (easy to load for, hammers, etc).

If you don't already have mags or are willing to buy new ones, in 2024, I'd say get either the MDT BR/Dasher mags, or the GrayOps mags, and go BR/Dasher (whichever you think would be more convenient/less problematic).

 

[Stevo86]

Big fan of the 25 CM, have one on an impact action and it’s a laser. I’ve got enough blackjacks to burn this barrel out then I’ll take a look at the hornady eldm or Berger 135. I use alpha 25cm srp brass and h4350. Cci 450 primers

 

[ma smith]

25 cal (135gr) doesn't get you enough recoil relief to trump a good 6mm
(108/109gr) in terms of overal tradeoffs. just my $0,02

 

[penguinofsleep]

After reading all the replies, think it’s going to be 25x47 when I eventually burn out the 6.5x47, just to see what the difference is. 6 Dasher or BRA for this project.

As for 6mm powder, as long as I can use Varget or N140 (or maybe an odd barrel that prefers N150 / H4350) I’ll be happy. Kind of curious about the Winchester and SW powder, but not enough to hunt some down, load more ladders, do more load development, etc.

 

[Andrew863]

I am in the same boat, I ruled out the 25cal just bc a good gunsmith and shooter recently told me they are a little harder to tune then most of the 6s he has shot. I decided to stay away from BR AND dasher bc every time you see a person have a mag issue or jam in a quality mag, they are running a BR style case. I am still on the fence on 6gt or 6CM. I'm wanting to slow my velocity down to 2850. I'm currently at 2924.

 

[Kadams1563]

I am in the same boat, I ruled out the 25cal just bc a good gunsmith and shooter recently told me they are a little harder to tune then most of the 6s he has shot. I decided to stay away from BR AND dasher bc every time you see a person have a mag issue or jam in a quality mag, they are running a BR style case. I am still on the fence on 6gt or 6CM. I'm wanting to slow my velocity down to 2850. I'm currently at 2924.

GT if you’re trying to go slower. I’m loading about where your at and thought about dropping to 2800-2850 but I’m not loading that hot already and I have a 28” barrel.

So probably need to chop 2” off and start loading at 34.5 of H4350 to slow it down to those numbers.

 

[mr_fullmetal]

25CM for me. Selling point was Alpha brass. 25x47 wasn’t available at the time and 25CM was. Also I use SAC dies and already have a Creedmoor die. So all it took was a new bushing. I will admit though I haven’t touched my 25CM because Berger 135’s are dried up right now. I don’t really care for Hornady 134 and to my knowledge those Blackjacks are gone now too. H4350 worked best for me in the 25CM and who isn’t stocked up on that powder.

I’ve been competing with the 6Dasher all this year and it’s tried and proven for PRS. Those GrayOps mags are a Godsend for 12 rounder.

 

[Gogga]

Availability of components is a major consideration these days. Helped me decide on a 6mm as well as lower recoil and ability to drive them at a decent velocity without burning a lot of powder. 6GT should fit the bill and ordered enough brass to burn the barrel out.

 

[Overwatch260]

Just got back from the range with my new 6GT build, only had to adjust the mag latch up a tiny bit to get 100% function with AW mags... KRG adjustable trigger guard made it simple.

Testing 80 gr ELD-VT loads for predator hunting so tried AR Comp powder since it's a lighter bullet in an 18" barrel. I'm sure it's on the slow side (around 2910 according to load data) but damn it was easy! I'll continue working up to 35 gr or so see if there's another sweet spot. 109 Bergers with 32.5 gr of Varget shot well too, just under .5 MOA so I might play with seating depth on those next time. So far it seems like it's an "easy button" cartridge like lots of folks have said!

 

[davere]

I'm also in the "6GT Slow" camp - I run a Berger 108 at 2820 - 35.5-36.0 of H4350. Typically, ES of <= 15, and SD <= 5. Groups routinely .1 mil or better. I'm nowhere near max pressure with that load. Load dev with that combo for me looked like "random charge weight, random seat depth... huh, one hole groups". Hard to get easier button than that. That said - I chose 6GT over Dasher or BRA because I had a ready supply of H4350 on hand. If I had a bunch of Varget - or if it had been easy to find when I went to 6GT, I would've probably gone BRA with the same bullet, at similar velocity, and likely had an even easier button.

I previously ran a 25 Creed at about 2850. Definitely more recoil. Definitely better wind and energy on target. I'm planning to rebarrel that action to 25x47 in the future, and have both 6GT and 25x47 on-hand. I'll likely run 25x47 on the slow side, too - probably 2700-2750 (which is do-able with 25GT, too - but again, erring on the side of lower pressure)