6GT vs 6Dasher

[FearlessMagpie]

Why are top shooters all switching back from 6GT to 6Dasher?
Is it because 6Dasher is easier to tune and has lower velocity (to see the trace)?

Thank you

 

[Dochs]

If I had to put a finger on it it’s a combination of things for one as you stated little slower for trace and spotting impacts better. Another would be alleged mag feeding problems for the gt. And also the gt may not be as reliable as the dasher when running slower speeds as case fill(load density) plays an important roll for sd/es. the gt has more case capacity and may make it a little more unreliable as far as sd/es are concerned with less case fill to achieve those speeds as the dasher would not. With the last statement being said the dasher is inherently accurate with its wide node range due to case fill/load density with several powders keeping it at right at them nodes. Just a few things that I would say it could be.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

top shooters all switching back from 6GT to 6Dasher

I am just curious where to see this sort of news?

 

[021411]

Seeing trace is a skill and of course if conditions are perfect. I rarely see it behind the gun but that’s just me so I don’t rely on it much. As far as 6GT having feeding issues, I haven’t experienced it using MDT poly metal mags. And no. I did not have to tweak anything. Ran perfectly out of the box. With that said, MDT is field testing revised mags. They posted some pics of it in the 6GT Facebook group. It’s supposed to dramatically improve feeding.
I’m usually in the low single digit SDs for my GT loads so it’s not a huge ordeal developing for it.

 

[TSULLI]

I am just curious where to see this sort of news?

It’s what I’m noticing as well. At least with the guys local to me. I spoke to several guys that were running 6gt while I was planning to build one. While no one really had anything to complain about, they were split down the middle between guys saying they wanted to go back to either 6br or dasher. One of the major selling points was feeding issues with the shorter cases… That doesn’t seem to be a real world issue for anyone anymore and with the results guys have been getting with with the br and variants, there doesn’t seem to be much point in it. While it does have a few advantages, they don’t play a crucial role for prs type shooting. Again, just what I’ve been told by some. I still plan on giving it a shot at some point for shits and giggles but I’m dedicated to 6 dasher at the moment.

 

[kthomas]

Who knows.

Competition shooters can be a pretty fickle bunch.

In my mind, the GT set out to solve a problem that didn't really exist. Outside of wanting factory ammo, I don't see any reason to choose a GT over a Dasher or BRA.

 

[021411]

Who knows.

Competition shooters can be a pretty fickle bunch.

In my mind, the GT set out to solve a problem that didn't really exist. Outside of wanting factory ammo, I don't see any reason to choose a GT over a Dasher or BRA.

Funny because I’m about to dabble with BRA from shooting 6 and 22GT.

 

[CK1.0]

I don’t know anyone or haven’t seen anyone who’s gone 6GT from Dasher go back… in fact, of the 3-4 guys I know who switched to GT from Dasher, they’re all happy with the swap.

IMHO, In many ways, the GT is just like a Dasher, especially with Varget, put powder in case = low SDs… except it also feeds perfectly from unadulterated magazines.

I still see guys every single match having feeding issues with Dasher/BR… though, it does seem like those running the MDT BR/Dasher mags seem to have the least problems.

 

[kthomas]

I don’t know anyone or haven’t seen anyone who’s gone 6GT from Dasher go back… in fact, of the 3-4 guys I know who switched to GT from Dasher, they’re all happy with the swap.

IMHO, In many ways, the GT is just like a Dasher, especially with Varget, put powder in case = low SDs… except it also feeds perfectly from unadulterated magazines.

I still see guys every single match having feeding issues with Dasher/BR… though, it does seem like those running the MDT BR/Dasher mags seem to have the least problems.

A sample size of two rifles, but have had zero issues with BRA feeding through both CRF and push feed actions with MDT mags.

 

[CK1.0]

IDK if there’s enough of a difference between the two for someone to switch to GT if they’re already shooting Dasher and… they have mags that run 100%.

But, for guys who’ve had issues or can’t seem to get their Dasher mags figured out, the GT is nice and boring option, good boring, no drama.

 

[kthomas]

Are people still having reliability issues with Dasher/BR/BRA in 2023?

I'm having a hard time believing that, with all the equipment and knowledge we have available today.

 

[CK1.0]

Are people still having reliability issues with Dasher/BR/BRA in 2023?

I'm having a hard time believing that, with all the equipment and knowledge we have available today.

There are guys who can’t figure out how to get .308Win/6.5CM to feed, just tuning mag lips is too complicated for them… and lots of those same guys want to shoot what all the cool kids are shooting, and it doesn’t generally get any better

 

[kthomas]

There are guys who can’t figure out how to get .308Win/6.5CM to feed, just tuning mag lips is too complicated for them… and lots of those same guys want to shoot what all the cool kids are shooting, and it doesn’t generally get any better

True

 

[TSULLI]

Are people still having reliability issues with Dasher/BR/BRA in 2023?

I'm having a hard time believing that, with all the equipment and knowledge we have available today.

Agreed. It was a known issue at one point which is the major reason why 6gt became a thing. It's not really an issue anymore, at least in my experience, so other than experimenting with a new cartridge, or having a need for very slightly higher velocity potential, I personably don't see the point. I will be converting a burnt up dasher barrel to 6gt but its more out of a desire to experiment than anything else.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

First of all, 6 dasher does not have a lower velocity. You can run them hot or run the slow with similar case capacity. GT can run a bit hotter before hitting pressure , but most are running them sub 2900 anyway.

The GT is just as easy to tune (or not tune as we do). I threw together a random load to finish out this season. Picked a powder charge to get me where I want velocity wise, Jumped it .030-.050 and sub 4 SD and sub 15 ES. Can't really ask for more than that.


I like the GT, have about 700 pieces of alpha brass left. Will continue to shoot it for a few years until that brass is toast or gone, then will decide what to go with.

The biggest benefit is being able to run unmodified 308 mags. No kits, no tuning, just run. Well unless you have ARC mags, which suck a bag of dicks.

I would do a BRA before a Dasher IMO.

 

[TSULLI]

First of all, 6 dasher does not have a lower velocity.

GT can run a bit hotter before hitting pressure , but most are running them sub 2900 anyway.

I'm confused. That's exactly what I was trying to say. You can run the 6gt slightly hotter if you have specific need but as you mentioned, most guys aren't running that high anyway so its a non issue for the most part.

 

[kthomas]

First of all, 6 dasher does not have a lower velocity. You can run them hot or run the slow with similar case capacity. GT can run a bit hotter before hitting pressure , but most are running them sub 2900 anyway.

The GT is just as easy to tune (or not tune as we do). I threw together a random load to finish out this season. Picked a powder charge to get me where I want velocity wise, Jumped it .030-.050 and sub 4 SD and sub 15 ES. Can't really ask for more than that.


I like the GT, have about 700 pieces of alpha brass left. Will continue to shoot it for a few years until that brass is toast or gone, then will decide what to go with.

The biggest benefit is being able to run unmodified 308 mags. No kits, no tuning, just run. Well unless you have ARC mags, which suck a bag of dicks.

I would do a BRA before a Dasher IMO.

I've actually found that the ARC mags work better with 6BRA than other cartridges. The bigger the cartridge, the less reliable the ARC mags seem to be.

I think being short and lighter weight really helps when the rounds are moving through that transition from double stack to single stack. The bigger cartridges have more friction/drag through that area, and can really struggle.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I've actually found that the ARC mags work better with 6BRA than other cartridges. The bigger the cartridge, the less reliable the ARC mags seem to be.

I think being short and lighter weight really helps when the rounds are moving through that transition from double stack to single stack. The bigger cartridges have more friction/drag through that area, and can really struggle.

This is the 3rd match in a row the ARC mags fucked me. I even got the LRI followers to try and get them going. Day 2 towards end they started binding and would not feed. I almost timed out on the PRS skill stage (6 rounds) due to mags not feeding. Lucky was able to hand feed and get in time. Switched back to accurate and they run like a sewing machine.

You have to clean ARC mags after EVERY match or day of a multiple day match. Once they get dirt in there, they are done.

A buddy told me he uses graphite powder on inside and it helps alot. At this point, I am about to go back to accurate or MDT 12's if i can get them to run.

 

[kthomas]

This is the 3rd match in a row the ARC mags fucked me. I even got the LRI followers to try and get them going. Day 2 towards end they started binding and would not feed. I almost timed out on the PRS skill stage (6 rounds) due to mags not feeding. Lucky was able to hand feed and get in time. Switched back to accurate and they run like a sewing machine.

You have to clean ARC mags after EVERY match or day of a multiple day match. Once they get dirt in there, they are done.

A buddy told me he uses graphite powder on inside and it helps alot. At this point, I am about to go back to accurate or MDT 12's if i can get them to run.

That's disappointing.

I haven't used my ARC mags in a match setting, because I just don't trust them that much (and also because I haven't really been shooting matches lately).

Any additional friction to the ARC mags, like debris that will encourage the followers to snag up, and they're fucked.

Graphite powder probably works because it reduces the friction. Any friction is a killer with the ARC mags.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Why are top shooters all switching back from 6GT to 6Dasher?
Is it because 6Dasher is easier to tune and has lower velocity (to see the trace)?

Thank you

Because the folks that talk about it are the ones always chasing greener grass. Next it may be a shade of .25 cal...

 

[37L1]

Because the folks that talk about it are the ones always chasing greener grass. Next it may be a shade of .25 cal...

Austin Orgain – Top Shooter Spotlight & His Experiment With 25-Calibers

This is part of a series of articles doing a deep dive with 6 of the best precision rifle shooters ...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[Niles Coyote]

Yup, a few will read that and may hear about the couple others in the top 50 that are also using it and the race will be on.

 

[kthomas]

Yup, a few will read that and may hear about the couple others in the top 50 that are also using it and the race will be on.

That's because everyone is looking for some quick fix "secret".

Every cartridge has its nuances and trade offs. Ballistics, recoil, component availability and options, chamber options, barrel blank availability, etc.

Personally I don't think these top guys would score much differently if they were shooting 6BR, .25x47 or 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[giumau1]

what all the top guys have in common is the time and money to sling 10k+ rounds a year. One can be more talented than others, but as competition rises there are no shortcuts to the top

 

[CK1.0]

I think the difference between choosing to run Dasher or GT just comes down to what seems easier to deal with, and maybe when you bought your brass/dies and shit, there's no wrong answer.

 

[FNG1001]

I think the difference between choosing to run Dasher or GT just comes down to what seems easier to deal with, and maybe when you bought your brass/dies and shit, there's no wrong answer.

could h4350 be used on either with equally low sd as varget?

 

[kthomas]

could h4350 be used on either with equally low sd as varget?

With a drop tube. It'll be a compressed load.

There is a small group of people that are big advocates for H4350 in BR based cartridges.

 

[CK1.0]

could h4350 be used on either with equally low sd as varget?

IMHO H4350 is second only to Varget and Varget-alikes as far as being the easiest to get low SDs with, and works great with 6GT, lots of guys swear by it.

You don't hear about H4350 being used as much with Dasher, but I'm sure it works well there too.

 

[Grubber]

I have been shooting a Dasher for 2 yrs as a prone 600yd gun, they shoot great. I had problems with the Norma, brass would not hold up, primer pockets were loose after 2 firings. Lapua has been great, I shoot 105hybrids and easily get 3000fps, 32.0 Varget.
I also have a PRS rifle in 6x47L, which shoots good, but was thinking to change it to a 6BR and for 600yd and closer matches.....A PRS rifle in 6GT rifle is being built now and between the family of 6BR, 6Dasher and 6GT it would seem like bases are covered without burning more powder than required to get 3000fps.

 

[Reloadingallday5]

If I had to put a finger on it it’s a combination of things for one as you stated little slower for trace and spotting impacts better. Another would be alleged mag feeding problems for the gt. And also the gt may not be as reliable as the dasher when running slower speeds as case fill(load density) plays an important roll for sd/es. the gt has more case capacity and may make it a little more unreliable as far as sd/es are concerned with less case fill to achieve those speeds as the dasher would not. With the last statement being said the dasher is inherently accurate with its wide node range due to case fill/load density with several powders keeping it at right at them nodes. Just a few things that I would say it could be.

H4350 works fantastic in 6GT with 108’s and 109’s LRHT and can achieve high case fill without issues. I’m currently at 97%. It might be worth another look if you’re contemplating it. I also read some other comments in here of some speculation with it. Attached is doing 3-90 shot strings over the chronograph and we also did a 200 rounds test too that achieved an 8.4 SD overall.

Hope this helps if you’re deciding to go with H4350 and GT, it works great!

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

With 6 GT lapua brass about to drop does anyone feel the Dasher is still a better choice?
I'm looking to shoot 112s or 115 dtacs for longer windy prs courses here in the west.
I'm pretty torn between the two, I know the Dasher shoots awesome but I hate the short neck and would prefer lapua brass that didn't need formed.

 

[wildturkey2]

With 6 GT lapua brass about to drop does anyone feel the Dasher is still a better choice?
I'm looking to shoot 112s or 115 dtacs for longer windy prs courses here in the west.
I'm pretty torn between the two, I know the Dasher shoots awesome but I hate the short neck and would prefer lapua brass that didn't need formed.

never understand why lapua doesn’t make 6 dasher

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

never understand why lapua doesn’t make 6 dasher

Probably cuz the GT is a better case..

 

[Gogga]

I'm going with the GT (not for PRS) because it's easier to get higher speeds with heavier bullets without having to hammer the brass.

 

[45-90]

The Dasher is the best round for the job.
41% of the Pros use it.
I had the same choice a few yrs ago.
Saw a write up about the GT along with load data, for the same barrel length as my new dasher.
My 6 dasher will get the same speed with a few grains less of the same powder in the article.
Feeding is not an issue, today.
Alpha brass is good, no fireforming, takes pressure well, probably better than lapua.
The Dasher shoots all bullets weights well from 55 gr to 115 gr.
The 58 gr Vmax to 4100 fps, or 115 DTAC to 3044 for speed. Or lower 2950 to 3020 fps area for super accuracy with a variety of match bullets.
My two favorite loads are 108 Berger with Varget or RL15, or the 3085 fps 110 SMK for way out there.
The 6 dasher is consistently the most accurate round I've ever shot. The best choice, imo, over all the 6mms, as it covers all the basis.

 

[wildturkey2]

The Dasher is the best round for the job.
41% of the Pros use it.
I had the same choice a few yrs ago.
Saw a write up about the GT along with load data, for the same barrel length as my new dasher.
My 6 dasher will get the same speed with a few grains less of the same powder in the article.
Feeding is not an issue, today.
Alpha brass is good, no fireforming, takes pressure well, probably better than lapua.
The Dasher shoots all bullets weights well from 55 gr to 115 gr.
The 58 gr Vmax to 4100 fps, or 115 DTAC to 3044 for speed. Or lower 2950 to 3020 fps area for super accuracy with a variety of match bullets.
My two favorite loads are 108 Berger with Varget or RL15, or the 3085 fps 110 SMK for way out there.
The 6 dasher is consistently the most accurate round I've ever shot. The best choice, imo, over all the 6mms, as it covers all the basis.

i don’t really care which one is better i just like to shoot. let’s be real i’m never going to be a top shooter in the country and don’t really care. how many of you are in the top 20 shooter in the country probably none so what are we talking about .

 

[45-90]

i don’t really care which one is better i just like to shoot. let’s be real i’m never going to be a top shooter in the country and don’t really care. how many of you are in the top 20 shooter in the country probably none so what are we talking about .

Performance, accuracy, barrel life, velocities, precision reloading, are all being discussed. Ya don't have to be a top 20 shooter to appreciate the performance they demand, whether or not you are capable at this time... to be able to harness all that available precision ...but strive for a personal best...accomplishment.

For you... who do not care about it, maybe a cheap 22 LR carbine, with the cheapest available ammo... will be your best bet.
So you can just shoot ...a lot.

 

[moosemeat]

What's the case capacity of the Dasher vs the GT?

 

[JR1200W3]

About 4gr of H4350 difference

 

[JR1200W3]

The Dasher is the best round for the job.
41% of the Pros use it.
I had the same choice a few yrs ago.
Saw a write up about the GT along with load data, for the same barrel length as my new dasher.
My 6 dasher will get the same speed with a few grains less of the same powder in the article.
Feeding is not an issue, today.
Alpha brass is good, no fireforming, takes pressure well, probably better than lapua.
The Dasher shoots all bullets weights well from 55 gr to 115 gr.
The 58 gr Vmax to 4100 fps, or 115 DTAC to 3044 for speed. Or lower 2950 to 3020 fps area for super accuracy with a variety of match bullets.
My two favorite loads are 108 Berger with Varget or RL15, or the 3085 fps 110 SMK for way out there.
The 6 dasher is consistently the most accurate round I've ever shot. The best choice, imo, over all the 6mms, as it covers all the basis.

3044fps with a DTAC in a 6 Dasher? You're such a jackass....

 

[45-90]

3044fps with a DTAC in a 6 Dasher? You're such a jackass....

No need for name calling....
Anyone can shoot the same or similar speeds with a 6 Dasher.
Here's how... 28" Bartlein barrel, like this one, chambered in 6 Dasher.
The Alpha brass, 115 hr DTACs coated, and 6.5 Staball powder, with Rem 7 1/2 primer.
Work up for your rifle...3044 fps is there.
Or 3085 fps for the 110 SMK is an excellent load...in my barrel.
Enjoy the performance and accuracy of the 6 Dasher, with very little recoil.

 

[45-90]

Here is actual load data when chronographing the 107 SMK at 3133 fos in the 6 Dasher.
This is out west... shooting 110 SMK at 3085 fps that day, target near far tree line.

 

[45-90]

I had the same delima 6 Dasher or 6 GT.
I chose the Dasher when Alpha brass came out...
To muddy the waters further here is a direct comparison...my 28" barrel against a GA precision 27.5" 6 GT in Hodgdons 2020 annual manual. SAME powder...6.5 Staball
The only difference is the 6 dasher gets the same velocity with 1.5 grs less 6.5 Staball and the 6 Dasher had better accuracy with the Bartlein barrel than the GA Precision had with their barrel, probably Bartlein.
Here's the article and their load data.
There is little difference in performance, but the 6 Dasher has a slight accuracy edge...your choice.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Here is actual load data when chronographing the 107 SMK at 3133 fos in the 6 Dasher.
This is out west... shooting 110 SMK at 3085 fps that day, target near far tree line.

Dude you're running ridiculously over pressure!
That's a stout load in a creedmoor

 

[moosemeat]

He's also running a 28" or 30" barrel. But I agree. Most likely moderately over pressure.