6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

[TEAMSENDIT]

Well my rifle a.d.d. bug has bit me hard and i decieded i am going to try a barrel burning screaming banshee. I have both a trg 22 (308 bf) and 42 with magnum bolt face so i can do either easily. I am looking at wind cheaters obviously so i am open to other suggestions also.

Mag lengths i have available

trg 22 2.95 10rd mag
trg 42 3.75 7rd mag

as far as i can tell the basic ballistics are

6mm crusader 115dtac 3200fps
264 win mag 139 scenar 3200fps
7 rem mag 180 berger 3100fps

all of these would have between 26-28" barrel

The other calibers i am seriously considering are 243 and 7/300 win mag. I am open to any ideas or experiences with any of these calibers.

If you had one or two of these choices which would you make and why? The 42 doesn't currently have a barrel so it will get a magnum of some sort and the trg 22 currently is a 7mm08 (love it) just like to be able to play with different calibers and can't afford a third trg.

 

[RBros]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

7 Rem Mag or a 243 with Dtac's. The 264WM will defintely eat the barrel up under match conditions. Wore my first one out just trying to find a load for it. I was pushing things a little hard though....

7mag will get 180's to 3050-3100 in a 27-28" barrel and will cheat the wind the most. A 243 with a Dtac at 3150 will come close to the 7RM, but less recoil, no muzzle brake, less barrel heat...etc.

Just build both Scott!

 

[steve123]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well my rifle a.d.d. bug has bit me hard and i decieded i am going to try a barrel burning screaming banshee. I have both a trg 22 (308 bf) and 42 with magnum bolt face so i can do either easily. I am looking at wind cheaters obviously so i am open to other suggestions also.

Mag lengths i have available

trg 22 2.95 10rd mag
trg 42 3.75 7rd mag

as far as i can tell the basic ballistics are

6mm crusader 115dtac 3200fps
264 win mag 139 scenar 3200fps
7 rem mag 180 berger 3100fps

all of these would have between 26-28" barrel

The other calibers i am seriously considering are 243 and 7/300 win mag. I am open to any ideas or experiences with any of these calibers.

If you had one or two of these choices which would you make and why? The 42 doesn't currently have a barrel so it will get a magnum of some sort and the trg 22 currently is a 7mm08 (love it) just like to be able to play with different calibers and can't afford a third trg. </div></div>

For a tactical match rifle or just shooting steel?

On the 42 I say go for the 7/300WM.Thinking about doing one for my Surgeon XL next barrel for the fun of it.I've had a bunch of misses a hair off to the side of the steel at one of the local AZ matches and can't help thinking the extra wind advantage would of made my final scores different.The particular match I'm referring to does not have a velocity restriction.Currently the XL is in a 30-375R.I found out the hard way that with 240's going 2900 fps I couldn't recover the site picture fast enough on certain stages within the time limit.180's going 3150-3200 fps might be about right.Possibly being a good combination of fantastic ballistics and reasonable recoil impulse???

Seems like all the tactical matches have a velocity restriction at 3100 fps so I didn't see any use going with the 6mm Crusader.Looks like 243 is the cartridge of choice these days.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

this would be for tactical matches that didn't have a speed limit or 3200fps.

 

[poison123]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well my rifle a.d.d. bug has bit me hard and i decieded i am going to try a barrel burning screaming banshee. I have both a trg 22 (308 bf) and 42 with magnum bolt face so i can do either easily. I am looking at wind cheaters obviously so i am open to other suggestions also.

Mag lengths i have available

trg 22 2.95 10rd mag
trg 42 3.75 7rd mag

as far as i can tell the basic ballistics are

6mm crusader 115dtac 3200fps
264 win mag 139 scenar 3200fps
7 rem mag 180 berger 3100fps

all of these would have between 26-28" barrel

The other calibers i am seriously considering are 243 and 7/300 win mag. I am open to any ideas or experiences with any of these calibers.

If you had one or two of these choices which would you make and why? The 42 doesn't currently have a barrel so it will get a magnum of some sort and the trg 22 currently is a 7mm08 (love it) just like to be able to play with different calibers and can't afford a third trg. </div></div>

For a tactical match rifle or just shooting steel?

On the 42 I say go for the 7/300WM.Thinking about doing one for my Surgeon XL next barrel for the fun of it.I've had a bunch of misses a hair off to the side of the steel at one of the local AZ matches and can't help thinking the extra wind advantage would of made my final scores different.The particular match I'm referring to does not have a velocity restriction.Currently the XL is in a 30-375R.I found out the hard way that with 240's going 2900 fps I couldn't recover the site picture fast enough on certain stages within the time limit.180's going 3150-3200 fps might be about right.Possibly being a good combination of fantastic ballistics and reasonable recoil impulse???

Seems like all the tactical matches have a velocity restriction at 3100 fps so I didn't see any use going with the 6mm Crusader.Looks like 243 is the cartridge of choice these days.

</div></div>

6mm Crusader at 3200 is steel safe at about 100 yards. Ask me how I know this

 

[Papagallos]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

How do you know this?

 

[poison123]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

Because I looked into the future.................then shot the plate about 10 secs later.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

6mm Crusader 105 amax 3348 fps... Hammer time !

7.5 MOA at 600
18.25 MOA at 1000

anymore questions !

 

[jasonk]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

anymore questions !

</div></div>

Yes, why are you using MOA?

 

[ranger1183]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

with these speeds aren't people experiencing bullet failures? I'd think people would be having their bullets come apart long before they reach the target. No?

 

[poison123]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">with these speeds aren't people experiencing bullet failures? I'd think people would be having their bullets come apart long before they reach the target. No? </div></div>

Not the crusader. I believer the Danger zone for 115 dtacs is around 3350 and above.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

Poison123 what speed are you getting with the dtacs and your crusader? what was your fireforming load.

 

[RBros]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

I didn't have any come apart at just over 3350, but they didn't shoot all that hot at all. Seems like 3200-3275 is a sweet zone and then the 2950-3150 range as well. I run them now at 3247 in one rifle and 3150 in another.

 

[steve123]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this would be for tactical matches that didn't have a speed limit or 3200fps. </div></div>

I guess it wouldn't be the greatest idea to do the 7-300WM for a tactical match rifle because of the recoil and short barrel life but I ran the numbers at JBM out of curiosity and found out that with both the 115 and 180 going 3200fps the 180 has the 115 beat by 1/2 a mil at 1000Y in a 10 mph full value wind.That's pretty substantial!

 

[Mike]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

243 spitting the DTACs at 3150 all day long and no fire forming.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

the magnum action would only be for a match or two a year and not any of the high speed, high round count matches. we just have a couple local matches where it would be fun. great for ukd's and cross canyon stuff.

so what is this magic load for the 243 to get the 115s going 3150 so easily.

 

[RBros]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

RL25, H1000, H4350 will get you there in the straight 243 using a 27-28" barrel.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

anymore questions !

</div></div>

Yes, why are you using MOA? </div></div>

Oh no you di-uhnt!!!

 

[Gruff]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

anymore questions !

</div></div>

Yes, why are you using MOA? </div></div>

Maybe, like me, he prefers moa/moa over mil/mil...?

 

[kombayotch]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so what is this magic load for the 243 to get the 115s going 3150 so easily. </div></div>

Knowing where the pressures are at for the 6mm Crusader with all of the powders listed above, I have a lot of trouble believing that there is any 243 load that will do that without the pressures going into the 65kpsi range.

Have a look at MontanaMarine's primer test in his 30-06. Reading the brass and primers can be deceiving...

 

[Mike]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Team-Send-It!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so what is this magic load for the 243 to get the 115s going 3150 so easily. </div></div>

Knowing where the pressures are at for the 6mm Crusader with all of the powders listed above, I have a lot of trouble believing that there is any 243 load that will do that without the pressures going into the 65kpsi range.

Have a look at MontanaMarine's primer test in his 30-06. Reading the brass and primers can be deceiving...</div></div>

Actually, about everyone that has had GAP build them a 243 (at least 6-8 people I can readily name) get that velocity with zero pressure signs. And that's with real world, rapid fire, hot weather comp conditions. I NEVER blew a primer in my 243 shooting that load. With multiple loads on the brass I might add.


47.5gns RL-25
Win brass
210M primers
115 DTACs

6.5 mils to 1K

Also, in a twist of irony I have had loads not even close to what MM loads in different calibers and it shows severe pressure and yet it's well below where he has seen pressure signs.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

Actually, about everyone that has had GAP build them a 243 (at least 6-8 people I can readily name) get that velocity with zero pressure signs. And that's with real world, rapid fire, hot weather comp conditions. I NEVER blew a primer in my 243 shooting that load. With multiple loads on the brass I might add.


what length barrel and what twist? coated bullets? reamer just for the 115's?

Mike i believe you i just want to be able to replicate it. GAP builds one hell of a rifle but i struggle to go without my rifle for 2-3 months while waiting and I have an arrangement with benchmark barrels since they are local.

 

[MTETM]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

Scott,
An added twist...
If you have the length, give a 6.5x55 or a 6.5 Crusader a go with 142's.

 

[kombayotch]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

You aren't going to blow primers at 65kpsi, that's within the SAAMI spec. for several cartridges (6mm Rem. for example). Primers are designed to withstand it. I have no doubt you can get that velocity, but it is a hot load.

 

[Mike]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

TSI: 27" barrel, 1:7.5, BN coated, GAP's 243 reamer.

Kombayotch, hot, medium, whatever it shoots and has withstood some punishment. In fact, my TRG is probably going back to GAP shortly for another 243 barrel.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

anymore questions !

</div></div>

Yes, why are you using MOA? </div></div>

I am a Carpenter ! Feet, inches, Yards... Me brain functions much more better that way !

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In fact, my TRG is probably going back to GAP shortly for another 243 barrel. </div></div>

Quitter

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

well guys after alot of debating, i went ahead and ordered my two barrels.

same contour 1.150 for 4" then straight taper to .800" @ 28", 8 flutes with matching muzzle brakes threaded 5/8x24.

1. 243 8twist 6 groove, throated for dtacs
2. 7/300 wm 9 twist, 5r, throated for 180 berger vld's seated out to 3.60"

I am shooting for velocity around 3100-3150 out of both and hopefully at least 1500rds out of each one. If for some reason i can't get it out of the 243 i will just order the crusader reamer and rechamber it.

smokem if you gottem----barrels that is!!

 

[Mike]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In fact, my TRG is probably going back to GAP shortly for another 243 barrel. </div></div>

Quitter

</div></div>

I got an LTR at a great price so rather than turn that one into a 243 (which still isn't out of the question) I thought the TRG should go that route, especially since it's my comp gun.

 

[Gruff]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

243 is a gurlz gun...

 

[leadbullet]

Re: 6mm crusader, 264 win mag or 7 rem mag???

scott, you'll love that 243, I have an AI and shoot the 115 berger cause the Dtac are always sold out where I look but, after shooting a 1000 yds match last weekend and watching the bullet trace in the rifle's scope, i have zero complaints, it shoots fast, bucks wind and is really flat to 1000 with barelly any recoil
good choice brother.