6mm Dasher vs 6creed

[Pickle Rick]

It looks like the 6 dasher is more efficient of a cartridge from what little load data I’ve seen. Mid-low 30gr’s of powder. Does the dasher use the typical 308 powders? Varget, RL15, 4895, 4064, etc? I have more of these powders than the creedmoor burn rates. Other than brass availability, what are downsides of the dasher?

Looking for something with .473” bolt face that is relatively cheap to shoot. Any suggestions?

 

[st1650]

Dasher - Mostly optimal with Varget but I've seen H4350 with the 115s but you run out of case capacity and have to compress.
6 GT is slightly longer so H4350 is mostly optimal.

I would stick with the Dasher, get some Alpha brass, 2000 ct of Berger 105 hybrid and just shoot it. 32-33gr varget, 15-25 thou off the lands, as long as you have a good blank and decent smith, it'll shoot. Even the prefit shoots. It's about the easiest caliber to load and shoot, especially out of a heavy rifle.

 

[FatBoy]

I run a Norma Dasher. I’m on my 3rd (#3 has 0 rounds ) and it’s a super easy round to load. Everything @st1650 posted is spot on.

My go to is 32gr Varget over a 450M with a 107SMK, 105BH or 108 BT .015 “ off for the SMKs, .025” off for Bergers and they all shoot bug holes up close and have no problem holding MOA at distance. MV from a 30” barrel is running between 2950-3000 fps with a normal freebore.

My current one has about 2400 rounds on the tube and it shot wonderfully at the 6 x 600 state championship last weekend. Holds onto carbon at this point so it’s probably close but I was still seeing SDs around 12 over 26 shot strings.

IMO, the only other chambering easier is 6BR.

 

[264win]

The only disadvantage to the br/ dasher based rounds I know of, is feeding issues in some mag systems.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

IMHO, "Cheap to shoot" will be driven more by what bullet you pop on top. The 10 extra grains of powder charge in a 6CM costs you about 60 rounds less per pound of powder, or +-$0.08 per round. You'd save way more per round swapping 60 cent bergers for cheapie S&B SP bullets or Speer TNTs.

If the mag will feed it with minimal fuss, it's hard to beat any flavour of 6BR.

 

[LRShooter101]

The 2 big original drawbacks to the Dasher were having to fire form cases from 6 BR brass and getting them to feed from a standard .308 mag. Both of those issues have been addressed with factory brass available and mag options that are built or modified to feed it.
"Modern" cartridge design research has shown that shorter/larger diameter cases are more efficient and consistent at burning powder, versus longer/smaller diameter cases. (the "compact" 300 Norma Mag, versus the traditional "long & skinny" 300 mags is another good example of this) The case fill percentage also has an impact, with it being full, without being over compressed. In those regards the 6 Dasher is about as optimized as you can get.
As long as you are set on a 6mm bullet, I am not really sure that you will go wrong with either, but based on the number of winning shooters, 6 Dasher is still the most popular. https://precisionrifleblog.com/2024/03/01/what-the-pros-use-precision-rifle-calibers-cartridges

 

[Kickin45]

@Pickle Rick
What are you hoping to use this for?
Couple things to consider come to mind depending on your usage.

 

[blksno]

I run both a 6 Dasher Proof Prefit as well as a 6 Creed Proof Prefit.
Same Twist (7.5)
Same Length (26)
Same bullet (115 Dtac)

2825 with N540 in the Dasher vs 3075 with RL16 in the Creed

Roughly 10gr of powder difference between the two breaks down to 25fps per grain of powder. Personally, I don't really consider that significantly "MORE EFFICIENT" but powder choice and bullet choice will make a huge difference in those numbers.

 

[stonestorm]

I have shot both the 6mm Creedmore and the 6mm Dasher at 1000yd Benchrest matches. While I have beat several Dashers in competition with the Creedmoor the Dasher is much easier to keep in tune and is much easier on barrels than the Creedmoor. I shoot the Dasher now in competition instead of the Creedmoor if that tells you anything.

 

[Cody S]

I went through this about 4 years ago.
I sold all my dasher crap and moved to the 6 creed.
I love everything about the 6 creed except barrel wear.
literally Saturday with my dad's tikka and a custom bartlein barrel by a friend, I stacked 4 on top of each other at 900 yards, the first was on a separate, larger target and I used that first shot to dial and I moved to the 4 out of 5 plate which was about a 6 or 7 inch target at 900ish yards because I didn't trust myself that much literally stacked 4 on top of each other.
the gun barrel was dirty and we had some problems and honestly I'm not that good so I only got 10th but the cartridge can do bench rest shit when you treat it like a bench rest cartridge.
yes we do all the fancy shit except trim necks. tried it a bunch, juice not worth the squeeze. annealing was a pleasant surprise and I do it every 2 to 3 firings because I'm too lazy to do it every time. also greatly extends brass life. 20 plus loadings with 40.5 of h4350 under a 115dtac is usual. we ran a load stupid hot for a whole year and toasted a barrel in approx 1100 or 1200 rounds because america... it shot good as shit though, 115 dtacs at 3150 out of a 28" gain twist barty. we averaged 1500 rounds on a barrel running the normal 40.5 load with perfect accuracy. when we see fliers or drop in velocity we now call it a day.
I'm down to 2 6 creed barrels (with my new atxc coming with one, unless im super lucky and get a used atx cheapy cheap).
looking at Bartys lead times I may need to go ahead and make that order and finally try out the new mod BB! hope they offer it in gain twist...

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Unless you need to shoot factory ammo, The 6 dasher (and BR, BRA, GT) is a much more efficient design, will be much easier to load/tune and will cost you less in the long run. You can load down a 6 creed to BR velocities, but you loose case efficiency and have a ton of empty case fill that effects burn efficiency. it doesn't really make sense to run a 6 creed unless you are pushing it over 3k, but then you are also dealing with barrels burning faster as well as more recoil that could effect spotting your shots.

There is a good reason the 6 BR family cases dominate the shooting disciplines. They are so easy to get shooting well, you spend more time shooting and less time being frustrated. Now there is dasher, BRA and GT brass from Alpha and Lapua as well as mags designed to run them, there is no reason not to run one.

 

[Kfive73]

There’s a reason you see a lot more of the small 6’s at matches. Dasher, BR, BRA, GT. I went with dasher because it seemed like everyone was doing it. I figured if there’s a lot of shooters that are much better than me running it, I should do the same.

There’s also a thread on 6 dasher in the reloading section. I run 31.5 g varget with 105 hybrids, CCI 450, and alpha brass. 2890 fps. It seems like the dasher shooters at my local match are all in the 2850-2900 fps range on 105’s

 

[FatBoy]

There’s a reason you see a lot more of the small 6’s at matches. Dasher, BR, BRA, GT. I went with dasher because it seemed like everyone was doing it. I figured if there’s a lot of shooters that are much better than me running it, I should do the same.

There’s also a thread on 6 dasher in the reloading section. I run 31.5 g varget with 105 hybrids, CCI 450, and alpha brass. 2890 fps. It seems like the dasher shooters at my local match are all in the 2850-2900 fps range on 105’s

That the same velocity we get with a 6BR in NRA Any Rifles, using 30” barrels. 29.5gr Varget nets 2850, give it take with the BR. I am right at 2950 -2975 with the Dasher.

I ran my current Dasher at a 3 x 1000 yesterday. Ended the day with about 2500 rounds down the pipe. Firing schedule is 3 x 25-28 shot stings in about 15-18 minutes. The lands are basically gone for the first 6” and the first cracking is fairly heavy for about 16” and it still put up a 595-30x, SD at the target (I know these are sketchy) was 13fps. That’s with the “inferior” Norma Dasher brass with 7 - 8 firings on it. I literally cut a new box of 107s open, opened a new jug of Varget and loaded for the match. No load testing what so ever. So freaking easy to load for.


We have some really good guys who shoot 6 Creed (a great shooter moved over form 6mmSwiss Match) but like has been mentioned, they’re in the 3100 fps range with 30” tubes.

At the end of the day, I’m not sure it makes a bit of difference if you’re shooting a Dasher (BRA, etc), a 6 Creed, 6XC, etc. as long as you’re not trying to go nuclear and you stay on top of the carbon, it’s going to work. For some that extra 100fps may be worth it, and I have a 6XC match rifle, but I choose to shoot the Dasher for the simplicity.

 

[ZiaHunter]

Started with a 6 creed for a mid-range F Class rifle. Never could get the rifle to shoot where it needed to be and replaced it with a 6 Dasher. The other downside was the amount of throat erosion with a fairly low round count. The 6 Creed is basically an overbore cartridge with the Dasher being much more efficient. 32.4 gr of Varget in a 30" barrel gives me just a hair over 3000 fps with Berger 105's.

 

[CK1.0]

I’ve shot a bunch of 6CM in the past and have been shooting 6GT for the last couple of years, and half the guys I shoot with run Dashers…

IMHO, between ~2800-2900fps, a 6 is a 6, doesn’t matter, pick one. The biggest advantage to the smaller 6s like Dasher is that you can you use faster powders like Varget or SWPR which IMO just make things easier… thing is, those powders work great in 6CM too (it’s just not as common).

The biggest thing I’ve learned is: don’t bother changing calibers/cartridges until you’ve really got your powder drop situation squared away, because since I started loading every round to the kernel, everything shoots.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I shoot both and like them both, however I may ditch the 6 creed. Dasher does everything I need and with 8-9 grains less powder.

6 creed at 3050-3075 is fun though

 

[stevieb92]

I've been shooting 6 creedmoor for the last two PRS seasons and it's done well for me, but I've realized that I would probably fare just a bit better with a tiny bit less recoil, gain some barrel life and use a few grains less powder so I'm doing research to move to the 6BR family on the next barrel. I'll probably go with 6BRA, but I'm not done doing my research yet. I'm running my 6 creedmoor (107 smk) at 3k from a 26 inch bartlein, so it's not screaming hot, but healthy.

 

[CK1.0]

Recoil is really the name of the game… it’s a misleading to compare a 3000+fps 6CM to a Dasher.

Most of us are looking to do whatever we can to make it easier to see/spot every impact/splash… so along with a 20+lb gun, powder/speed is something to think about too.

In PRS, most guys are in the neighborhood of ~2800fps, maybe nearing ~2900fps on super hot 100degF days, but IDK of too many who’re competitive running hotter than that… because you don’t need it, and faster means more recoil.

So in the end, a slow 6CM does the same thing as a spicy 6BR or Dasher as long as one’s SDs stay under control.

In fact, different powders with different cartridges can have different recoil impulses that one might like better than others, a 6CM running a 115 at ~2850fps with something like H4831 feels like a nice slow push whereas Dasher running a 110 at ~2850fps with Varget feels snappier….

Honestly, not sure if anyone has done it yet, but a recoil comparison of all the usual suspect cartridges would be interesting…

 

[Crappiekiller]

Great info. I am in the market for a dasher. Local guy has one and I have been very impressed with what he has done with it.