Those high round count stages will kill a barrel for sure as will sustained high rates of fire throughout the day as you well know. There's a reason I limit my stages to reasonable round counts.
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6mm Dasher
- Thread starter BoilerUP
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Those high round count stages will kill a barrel for sure as will sustained high rates of fire throughout the day as you well know. There's a reason I limit my stages to reasonable round counts.
I saw about 0.035" of erosion at 1800 rounds, about 2/3 were lighter loads at 29.2g of XBR 8208 behind a 105 BTHP. Cleaned every 200-300 rounds, still developed a carbon ring that I finally cleaned out with CLR at the end. Haven't chased the lands, but I did shoot a match with it at 1900 rounds and did well, 4th place against some tough competition. Have since switched over to a new barrel and the prior one is doing practice duty.
i could only get to 31.9 varget with the 110s before the bolt started to stiffen up. About 2850. Going back to H4895
31.8-32.0 is where mine flattened out with the 110s. Velocity was 2885 and just a slight ejector button mark although the primers were still pretty round and no sticky bolt. I'm going to load up a few for further testing at 31.9 and see how they shoot at distance.
I think I finally finished up my Dasher barrel. I'm gonna pull it at just shy of 2700 rounds. It lost speed in the middle of the last regional match (KYL rack). I knew I was close to the end, but was having fun keeping it alive for testing's sake. It held vertical very well till the end and got me a top 20 prs finish at 2400. I had to chase the lands quite a bit and needed to add 2/10 more powder to get my velocity back one time. I wanted to chronograph it before I pull it and may still if I have time, just for fun. I cleaned it up and bore-scope'd it last night at a friends house. Holy shit! The throat is missing 1/2" of rifling and the fire-cracking is wicked. Looks fucking awful, but was still shooting. It was a Chanlynn Palma at 26" (RIP)...
Here's hoping Dasher II will treat me similar!
Here's hoping Dasher II will treat me similar!
BigHornTL3
26 inch Hawk Hill 236 bore 1.555 Lapua Chamber
Lapua Fire Formed BR Brass
ARC Mag
berger 105 hybrid
32.5 Varget 5 thou off the lands
Density Altitude 1403 Temp 78 degrees
3003 FPS SD 4 ES 9
Norma GenII 6 Dasher Brass trimmed back to fit in Lapua Chamber
berger 105 hybrid
32.5 Varget 5 thou off the lands
3015 FPS SD 6 ES 10
Density Altitude 1403 Temp 78 degrees
Did have a little more tougher bolt lift and light swipe marks anyone else have this issue with Norma Brass?
26 inch Hawk Hill 236 bore 1.555 Lapua Chamber
Lapua Fire Formed BR Brass
ARC Mag
berger 105 hybrid
32.5 Varget 5 thou off the lands
Density Altitude 1403 Temp 78 degrees
3003 FPS SD 4 ES 9
Norma GenII 6 Dasher Brass trimmed back to fit in Lapua Chamber
berger 105 hybrid
32.5 Varget 5 thou off the lands
3015 FPS SD 6 ES 10
Density Altitude 1403 Temp 78 degrees
Did have a little more tougher bolt lift and light swipe marks anyone else have this issue with Norma Brass?
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Norma brass has less capacity, so you will have higher pressure at the same charge weight. Might want to back the charge down a few tenths.
I'm on my second Dasher barrel running 32.3gr Varget 105 Hybrid 20 off the lands, 26" Rock Creek 7.5 twist 2961fps SD 3 ES 9. Hammers, won a PRS club series match with it last weekend.
I ran that exact same load last season at the same velocity except i was ~.005" off the lands. Bart 1:7.5 @ 26" here. accuracy went to shit at 1,500 rounds. I checked throat erosion at it had moved .050" in those 1,500 rounds. Moved the bullets out accordingly and added a tenth or two of powder to get back up to speed and had it shooting dots again right before the Grind. it has around 1900 on the barrel now; not sure how much longer I'll run it if I need to keep chasing lands. probably just practice with it over the winter and have a fresh one cut for next spring.
It's amazing how predictable the Dasher is. I know others who are running that 32.3gr load as well.
My load for my 26" Bartlein barrel, Lapua brass, 32.4 of Varget, 20 off give me 2905 fps with the 115 DTACs
Just bought 500 of the 108 ELD-m to try in my dasher after seeing a friend’s shoot them amazingly well.m24 Hawk hill 26” 7.5t barrel on a Mausingfield. I opted for a 135FB, I’m afraid that will be too long but if it is I’ll switch to the 110smk
Finally got out to do some load work up. Specs are Bighorn TL3 w/ 26" Kreiger barrel capped with a 30 cal Titanium phantom supressor. H4895 under Berger 105's.
These were once fire formed Lapua brass.
Charge Min Max Avg. SD
31gr 2881 2913 11.7
31.2gr 2912 2925 5.6
31.4gr 2920 2949 2932 11.9
31.6gr 2936 2947 2942 4.1
31.8gr 2955 2982 2967 10.0
32.0 2971 2988 2988 6.9
32.2 2994 3007 3001 6.3
32.4 3011 3022 3017 4.6
32.6 3013 3039 3028 10.2
32.8 3044 3063 3052 6.8
This was a cold day at 5760 elevation. Definitely not my best day shooting but with this I can start to see where I go next. 32.8 was starting to show a slight tension on bolt lift but not bad. I'm looking at 32-32.4gr playing with seating depth.
These were once fire formed Lapua brass.
Charge Min Max Avg. SD
31gr 2881 2913 11.7
31.2gr 2912 2925 5.6
31.4gr 2920 2949 2932 11.9
31.6gr 2936 2947 2942 4.1
31.8gr 2955 2982 2967 10.0
32.0 2971 2988 2988 6.9
32.2 2994 3007 3001 6.3
32.4 3011 3022 3017 4.6
32.6 3013 3039 3028 10.2
32.8 3044 3063 3052 6.8
This was a cold day at 5760 elevation. Definitely not my best day shooting but with this I can start to see where I go next. 32.8 was starting to show a slight tension on bolt lift but not bad. I'm looking at 32-32.4gr playing with seating depth.
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I am running the following load in my dasher 6mm
Berger 105 Hybrids
32.4 gr Varget
CCI 450 primer
AVG FPS 3030 with 7.5 twist krieger barrel 28” in length
shooting off a benchrest I get 1/4” five shot groups.
Berger 105 Hybrids
32.4 gr Varget
CCI 450 primer
AVG FPS 3030 with 7.5 twist krieger barrel 28” in length
shooting off a benchrest I get 1/4” five shot groups.
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Got out yesterday in some fairly challenging conditions. 40 deg cold cloudy wind 10-30mph 11-3. 32.2gr H4985 under berger 105gr going 3003fps. At 550 it wasn't even a challenge. At 1000 hitting a 6" plate was just fun enough to make me want to climb back out of my SUV after warming up to shoot another string. Wasn't really wanting to make it a shit show day but had to verify chono and calculation data at range. Dead nuts on for three different calibers. Good day.
Are you still running 8208 XBR? Assuming you can get good speed out of it, I'm thinking it might be a better powder to run full time based on this chart and the calculator linked there:
http://www.leroyrifleandpistolclub.org/powder-heat-potential.html
I ran a bunch of XBR reduced velocity rounds through my last Dasher barrel as my "practice" rounds, partially because of the heat index info you quoted above, but primarily because XBR just meters really nice through a progressive press. I've since added a 223 trainer so now all my practice is done with that instead of the Dasher, still using XBR for the 223.
I've heard of some guys using XBR and getting good velocity for full power Dasher loads, but I've just stuck with Varget since it shoots so well and I don't have to reinvent the wheel. There's a reason that Varget is the go-to powder for Dasher. I'm less worried about barrel life now, just want to shoot what runs best and when it's time for a new barrel I'll just throw one on.
I ended up with 33.3gr of Varget under 115gr DTACs. Avg = 2925, SD = 3.4, ES = 9. Seated just off the lands.
Primers are a little flattened but bolt lift is normal. 26” Hawk Hill, 1:7.5” barrel. Start low and work up.
I also tried compressed RL-16 loads but ran into pressure issues depending on temp. Figured it wasn’t worth trying to chase that powder around to figure out where it was happy when Varget will do the same with less.
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I will say it again. I think you guys are trying to run these too fast. Dasher is gonna be happier at a lower speed. 2950+/- with 105 class and 2850+/- with the 115 or 110. 33.3 is a stout load with 105, let alone a 115. If you want to shoot the DTAC with varget, start at 31 grains. If you have 4895 start a grain lower.
If you guys really want to go fast, pick a different cartridge like 6cm or 6x47. Dasher is about accuracy and consistency, not pure speed. All you will do is trash your brass and barrel, then at 1500rds it will go sideways and you will be scratching your head and calling it a "fucking dasher". This road has already been traveled by the BR guys. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. Just because it is new to our discipline does not mean it is new.
If I tried 33.3 grains of varget with a DTAC in my new Krieger, I would be in a world of hurt. This new barrel is sending 105 at 2990 with 31.2 of varget. I am in the process of tuning it down to 2950-2980. Start low! Find that sweet spot and keep your barrel clean.
Different strokes. If you don’t want to run them fast then don’t. Doesn’t mean there is a right or wrong way of doing it. I know of a lot of guys pushing them even faster with no appreciable difference in brass life or accuracy.
You’re right in that there are better cartridges if you’re after pure speed. The Dasher is not built for that alone. With that being said, I’m on the 6th firing, primer pockets are fine. Shoot, resize, repeat. Will I sacrifice a few rounds of barrel life? Sure. It’s a worthwhile tradeoff for me. Doesn’t mean you or the next guy has to have the same mentality.
Keeping the barrel clean and the limiting sustained rates of fire has worked for me. I’ve been through 2 barrels, both went over 1,800 rounds and both were still shooting fine when I hung a new one on it. The dedicated BR guys will tell you they need set back every 1k rounds anyway.
I agree with your statement about starting low and will revise my original post. Start low and work up, as is the case with anything. But I don’t necessarily agree with the whole “slower is better” notion.
It is... but a lot of that depends on rifle, environmentals, etc. It’s always smart to start low and work up to that. Just because it’s a popular charge weight doesn’t mean it won’t be way different from chamber to chamber.
I understand what delfuego is saying in the sense that the Dasher is not meant to be a hot rod round. There are better cartridges for that. But a lot of us have found it to work well pushing the heavy bullets a little faster than normal. Doesn’t make it right or wrong, just a little different than what some are used to.
In the end it really just comes down to finding something that works for your application and rolling with it. Info here can be good to use as a reference but ultimately it doesn’t matter what us keyboard warriors say... it matters what works for your specific rifle.
I understand what delfuego is saying in the sense that the Dasher is not meant to be a hot rod round. There are better cartridges for that. But a lot of us have found it to work well pushing the heavy bullets a little faster than normal. Doesn’t make it right or wrong, just a little different than what some are used to.
In the end it really just comes down to finding something that works for your application and rolling with it. Info here can be good to use as a reference but ultimately it doesn’t matter what us keyboard warriors say... it matters what works for your specific rifle.
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Lots of people will say not to clean or not to "over-clean" your barrel, but 6mm is a different animal. It can get very fouled very fast pushing little bullets at very fast speeds. I had a barrel I though was either a dud or shot-out (1500rds), so I pulled it off. It sat for 1/2 a year, until I decided to give it another chance. I took a look and could see with the naked eye a carbon build-up. I proceeded to strip the copper, and JB bore paste the barrel, mostly the throat, until it was nice and pretty. I screwed it back on and it started shooting again.
I have heard from a few people that also had Dashers go tits-up/sideways/whatever around 1500rds and think it could be similar. Dashers will also erode the throat a lot for a little cartridge, it is surprising how much in fact. Combine the bullet jump and the carbon build-up together and you can see why they suddenly stop performing. I started cleaning and started chasing and mine kept shooting! From now on I will keep measuring the throat and keep it nice and clean.
So I just ordered up my first Dasher barrel and could use some opinions on fire-forming. I'd prefer to just load long and jam into the lands with good neck tension. Thought/preferences? Also looking for a good (and safe) fire-forming load if I just use the jam technique. Thanks!
I have been testing 8208xbr and have found the best accuracy with a big jump to the lands using 107SMK and 110SMK. Was about to give up on it until I remembered a recent conversation with a BR shooter who said some of his Dashers shot best w/ .090” - .120” jump. Sounds crazy, but seems to work .
False shoulder with a .010 jam worked for me, otherwise I would send the brass out for hydroforming,,,,I believe it's Dennys brass service?
There is literally no reason to mess with false shoulders or hydroforming.
BR case, 30gr Varget, just kissing the lands with whatever cheap 105 range bullets you have sitting around. I’d take that load to a match and shoot it if it came down to it. I’ve split 1, maybe 2 cases out of 400+.
BR case, 30gr Varget, just kissing the lands with whatever cheap 105 range bullets you have sitting around. I’d take that load to a match and shoot it if it came down to it. I’ve split 1, maybe 2 cases out of 400+.
Thanks. That group was done off a benchrest at a 100 yards in a prone position.
I'd like to know what everyone's max length to lands is/are, along with what they are currently running for BTO. I had made up today a homemade case to run in the Hornady tool and got max base to lands of 1.850 with a Berger 105. I had made up some loads a few weeks ago that haven't been shot yet that are at 1.810 BTO. These are with 32.2gr H4895 giving 3003FPS and 6.3SD.
So lets hear it. What are your jumps and jam's?
So lets hear it. What are your jumps and jam's?
Last few barrels have had the lands at around 1.780-1.790 to touch with a 105 hybrid. 104 freebore.
I think one barrel I was at 1.750 and another 1.785 just because that's what jump they liked best. Throat erosion plays a part in it too.
Who uses H4895 vs Varget? I started initially using Varget (60ish rounds) but am just now finding out about h4895. Seems to me from my light reading it runs cooler and isn't as prone to torching throats? Is this correct?
thats what a lot of users say. Josh from PVA uses H4895 for that reason. Varget is super temp stable but is kinda prone to torching throat.
I don't have enough rounds on mine to comment. I'm using AR2208 (Varget) and AR2209 (H4350) behind 105gr Berger Hybs. I have a short freebore - .104". 32.5gr Varget and 36gr of H4350 shoot to exact same point of impact at 100m.
Those using H4895 (AR2206H in Australia) any comment on the below thread? A number of dasher shooters in Aus appear to have increased throat wear running that powder - it appears contrary to Josh's experience stating Varget was torching throats.
http://ozfclass.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6497&sid=2987b2f645604d3d558c7f617ce7b59d&start=15
Those using H4895 (AR2206H in Australia) any comment on the below thread? A number of dasher shooters in Aus appear to have increased throat wear running that powder - it appears contrary to Josh's experience stating Varget was torching throats.
http://ozfclass.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6497&sid=2987b2f645604d3d558c7f617ce7b59d&start=15
