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Join the contest SubscribeForming the false shoulder and fireforming. Unless you're using Norma Dasher brass that seems to be the way most people load it: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/6-dasher-fire-forming-false-shoulder-step-by-step.3918893/How is Dasher “brass prep” any different from 6BRA “brass prep”?
Forming the false shoulder and fireforming. Unless you're using Norma Dasher brass that seems to be the way most people load it: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/6-dasher-fire-forming-false-shoulder-step-by-step.3918893/
I'm just saying it's extra steps I personally don't want to do. Are you guys not forming the false shoulder or are you using Norma brass?
In a gay way?6gt looks much sexier than creed..![]()
Forming the false shoulder and fireforming. Unless you're using Norma Dasher brass that seems to be the way most people load it: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/6-dasher-fire-forming-false-shoulder-step-by-step.3918893/
I'm just saying it's extra steps I personally don't want to do. Are you guys not forming the false shoulder or are you using Norma brass?
I jammed all my Dasher fireform loads. It's really not any different than forming BRA. Set seating depth, load in gun, pull trigger
TIL, thanks.There are hardly any shooters using the false shoulder methods anymore because it yields not advantages. Look at the BR guys. It’s either load and shoot or hydroform. Stick with the Lapua.
how long does an extra step take? after fireforming you just load and shoot it 10-20 times. Unless you are going through thousands of rounds of brass prep every year with a Dasher...it's no big deal.Forming the false shoulder and fireforming. Unless you're using Norma Dasher brass that seems to be the way most people load it: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/6-dasher-fire-forming-false-shoulder-step-by-step.3918893/
I'm just saying it's extra steps I personally don't want to do. Are you guys not forming the false shoulder or are you using Norma brass?
Theres are so many variables it's hard to say on barrel life for a caliber. I hate to say this but I went the route of 6 comp match. Very small following but I have been very happy on barrel life
I run a .243AI shooting H1000 with 105 and 115 bullets. Pretty much the same concept as the 6 comp match. I don't push it hard. 3170 and 3050 respectively. The first barrel was done at 2500 rounds. I tried to milk more and pulled it at 2800 after shooting really shitty at a match and taking it to the range to find it wouldn't hold vertical at 800 yds. The second barrel is at 1400 rounds. It is still shooting sub half moa, but the throat has advanced a bit and I had to chase it and add powder to get the velocity back at around 900 rounds. For the amount of powder it takes to get that performance I'm thinking there has to be better alternatives. I'm going to burn through two more barrels and then evaluate if I want to go a different route. Then I'll have a better idea of what the average barrel life is, so I can compare it to whatever I try next. I think to get 3400 fps out of it a guy would have to run a 30" barrel and a shitload of pressure. In my opinion that is likely to make the barrel life very poor.How's that going? Of the barrels I saw torched in 6 comp, they ranged from 1200-1800 rounds. 1800 had been making it stretch out for a couple hundred rounds, too.
Listen to the right people and it's "3400fps and 3000 rounds with a 105"... I've never seen either of those.
I have a couple of Redding Match S bushing dies for different calibers. Never tried RCBS. The price is a lot more appealing though and I can use that extra $100 I'd save for the brass or bullets.I’m wondering which of the two dies is the better option
I went with the RCBS dies. Same reasoning it's a little cheaper so I can use that extra money for brass.Ya little over $300 after shipping plus you have to find a bushing. That's another $20 to 30 + shipping. Would have close to $340 in just the dies. Or I could try the RCBS for $164. GAP wants $18 to ship to me so $182. ( was pulling the trigger on these until I seen the $18 shipping). Still leaves me $158 for brass. I'm thinking brass will be about $1 to $1.10 each so 100 will be $110. Going with the RCBS I will have Dies and 100rd of brass and an extra $58 in my pocket for another 100 rounds of brass.
As you can tell I'm trying to justify buying the RCBS but all this math is making me wonder if I really need another caliber at all! Haha!
Considering the fact that you're not the only engineer involved in the discussion and that you completely discount the ideal gas law, I'm going to go ahead and "assure you" that what you're thinking may not be as true as you think.
A pressure spike of 60,000 PSI (max SAAMI average pressure) will cause a fair amount of heat. How much heat?
Case capacity of a 6.5 Creedmoor is approximately 52.5 grains of water, or 3.4 grams meaning the volume is approximately 3.4 milliliters. Approximately 50% of this volume will be taken up by solids (the gunpowder and the bullet, taking into account packing density of gunpowders is less than 100%) meaning we get a gaseous volume of ~1.7 milliliters.
Initial Condition:
101,325 * 0.0017 = n * R * 273.15
n = (101,325 * 0.0034)/(R * 273.15)
Solving for n we get that the original amount of gas in the chamber is approximately 0.07585 moles.
Gunpowder is approximately 75% Potassium Nitrate (KNO3), 15% Charcoal (C), and 10% Sulfur (S). The approximate chemical formula for the burning of gunpowder is as follows:
10 KNO3 + 8 C + 3 S -> 2 K2CO3 + 3 K2SO4 + 6 CO2 + 5 N2, of which Carbon Dioxide and Nitrogen are gasses while Potassium Carbonate and Potassium Sulfate are solids. By a percentage of the weight of the original gunpowder, perfect combustion will create 21.96% CO2, 11.65% N2, and 66.39% solids.
Let's use a standard 6.5 Creedmoor load of 40 grains of powder, which with perfect combustion would create approximately 8.784 grains of Carbon Dioxide and 4.66 grains of Nitrogen gas. This translates to 0.5692 grams of CO2 and 0.302 grams of N2, or 0.0129 moles and 0.0108 moles of the two gasses respectively combining for a total of .0237 moles of gas created by perfect combustion of 40 grains of gunpowder.
This means that the new amount of gas in the chamber after combustion (during the pressure spike) is 0.09955 moles. We also have a new volume since the gunpowder isn't there anymore, meaning the volume is approximately the 3.4 milliliter case capacity. The pressure of 60,000 PSI translates to approximately 413,685,420 pascal.
Post Combustion Condition (60,000 PSI):
413,685,420 * .0034 = 0.09955 * 8.3145 * T
T = (413,685,420 * 0.0034)/(0.09955 * 8.3145)
Our final temperature after the combustion, ignoring the heat from combustion itself, is approximately 1,700,000 degrees Kelvin (1.69931 x 10^6). This translates to 3,059,540 degrees Fahrenheit.
The temperatures realistically experienced in the chamber will be a significant amount lower because combustion is not perfect, nor is it instantaneous, and the volume is constantly expanding - this is an idealized spherical cow in a vacuum type calculation. This is demonstrated by the graphs posted already above.
Do you honestly believe though, in the face of the hard math and the data provided, that there is still no correlation between the temperatures and the pressures experienced within the chamber and throat of the barrel?
Who is making quality Dasher brass? Alpha is going to make 6GT so that will be quality.
How's that going? Of the barrels I saw torched in 6 comp, they ranged from 1200-1800 rounds. 1800 had been making it stretch out for a couple hundred rounds, too.
Listen to the right people and it's "3400fps and 3000 rounds with a 105"... I've never seen either of those.
View attachment 7011798
GAP Needs to reinvent the wheel every few years to keep the retards that have to buy a whole new $5k rifle every time there's a new caliber on the market, salivating.
Nevermind it does nothing ballistically different than current cartridge offerings. I'm sure the barrel life will be 6k rounds too! I'll stick with my 6x47.
Re: steel barrel for mpr.
Want to keep it zeroed ready to go with the carbon barrel for hunting.
Area 419, NSS, Paradigm Gunworx, and probably many others offer 6 GT prefits. Supposedly X-Caliber will be adding it by December.Who is making barrels for the 6 GT ?
Exactly my results, and I agree with your comparison to h4831.42gr, 115 DTAC, 3000fps, .140FB
RL23 is just a touch faster than H4831SC and my charge weights usually end up being 1 grain less