Need help gents. I have the parts ready for a PRS gun but cant decide on the caliber. I am thinking 6 dasher, 6 creedmoor or 6 x47 lapua. I hear great things about all three and now that Lapua offers brass for each one it makes the decision more difficult. The action is a bighorn tl3 and barrel is 7.5 twist. If anyone has experience with these cartridges I would like to hear from you to and chime in on the pros and cons of each of the cartridges.
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6mm pill for PRS
- Thread starter bodhisafa
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Lapua doesnt make brass in any of those, all involve various steps to form. While Im sure you realize that your post doesnt necessarily imply that understanding. Just want to make sure we are all aware.
Im gonna try the 105 rdf blems once my barrel eventually comes in but if I cant get them to work the sierra 110 and 107 have my interest.
Im gonna try the 105 rdf blems once my barrel eventually comes in but if I cant get them to work the sierra 110 and 107 have my interest.
I shoot 6mm and 6.5mm Creedmoor and have very results with both. I have had 0 issue with Creedmoor Hornady brass.Your other option is 6XC for which Norma brass is available. I don't like to form brass but that's just me.
Plenty of info out there on all of these. This is the way I see it
Dasher: pro: usually better barrel life, super efficient cartridges, super easy to tune, less powder
con: have to fireform to get lapua brass, mag kits run a lot better (not absolutely necessary but nicer), slightly slower velocity
6 creedmoor: Pro: more speed than the others, option to use lapua or hornady brass, easy to neck down brass, feeds great, with RL26 people are claiming stupid velocity or better barrel life if down loaded
cons: arguably harder on barrels than the others
6x47: pro: brass lasts forever, easy to neck down, very efficient, feeds nicely
cons: need small firing pin (doesnt affect you)
Dasher: pro: usually better barrel life, super efficient cartridges, super easy to tune, less powder
con: have to fireform to get lapua brass, mag kits run a lot better (not absolutely necessary but nicer), slightly slower velocity
6 creedmoor: Pro: more speed than the others, option to use lapua or hornady brass, easy to neck down brass, feeds great, with RL26 people are claiming stupid velocity or better barrel life if down loaded
cons: arguably harder on barrels than the others
6x47: pro: brass lasts forever, easy to neck down, very efficient, feeds nicely
cons: need small firing pin (doesnt affect you)
I don't have any experience with 6 Creedmoor. I had a 6x47 running 105 Hybrids around 3030-3050 and it performed well. Barrel lasted about 2400 rounds. I've read that the 6x47 can be a bit finicky to load for, but that wasn't my experience. 38.9 gr H4350 jumping 20 thou seemed to shoot fine. I'm currently shooting the Dasher. One rifle pushes the Hybrid about 2915 with Varget and the other is at 2990 with 8208XBR. Both were super easy to load for and continue to shoot well. Vertical dispersion tends to be really low without a lot of reloading voodoo. I don't mind fireforming, so that was never an issue for me.
In all honesty, it probably boils down to personal preference. Good luck!
In all honesty, it probably boils down to personal preference. Good luck!
Big picture reality is that any of those are very competitive options and the choice is not likely to change your ranking at a match. All can shoot very accurately, more than capable of winning. Dasher has a bit of an advantage on pure accuracy and consistency, just an inherently accurate cartridge and easy to tune. There's a reason it dominates the 1000 yard benchrest world.
I'd think of the decision as having to balance lower recoil for spotting your shots, and longer barrel life against flatter trajectory, more energy on target at distance, and a click or so less windage at 1000 yards. Dasher sits at one end of the scale, then 6x47, then 6 Creed. You might wish for a 6 Creed and 3150 fps when the wind is blowing and you're shooting the 1200 yard stage, but then on the fast moving midrange stage with lots of targets the Dasher is ideal with low recoil so you can spot your hits/misses and quickly make follow up shots. 6x47 is somewhere between the two and can easily run 100 fps faster than the Dasher.
I like the idea of low recoil, inherently accurate and better barrel life and am willing to give up a bit of ballistic advantage for it so I personally went with the Dasher. However the top shooters at our local match this weekend were running 6x47 and 6 Creed. There's no wrong choice.
I'd think of the decision as having to balance lower recoil for spotting your shots, and longer barrel life against flatter trajectory, more energy on target at distance, and a click or so less windage at 1000 yards. Dasher sits at one end of the scale, then 6x47, then 6 Creed. You might wish for a 6 Creed and 3150 fps when the wind is blowing and you're shooting the 1200 yard stage, but then on the fast moving midrange stage with lots of targets the Dasher is ideal with low recoil so you can spot your hits/misses and quickly make follow up shots. 6x47 is somewhere between the two and can easily run 100 fps faster than the Dasher.
I like the idea of low recoil, inherently accurate and better barrel life and am willing to give up a bit of ballistic advantage for it so I personally went with the Dasher. However the top shooters at our local match this weekend were running 6x47 and 6 Creed. There's no wrong choice.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of these cartridges, but if it was me, I'd probably opt for the 6mm Creedmoor. Why? One reason - you can buy loaded Hornady ELD Match ammo for it. I prefer to reload for my rifles, but I don't like to have to reload, if that makes sense. Having affordable, quality match ammo available puts the 6mm Creedmoor ahead of the pack for me.
I'd also throw 6XC in the mix, and you can buy loaded Norma ammo for it (though it's pricey). Based on what I've read, if I was just reloading, the 6XC and Dasher are probably the more efficient of the cartridges.
I'd also throw 6XC in the mix, and you can buy loaded Norma ammo for it (though it's pricey). Based on what I've read, if I was just reloading, the 6XC and Dasher are probably the more efficient of the cartridges.
The 6x47 and 6XC were the top two cartridges for the top PRS shooters this past year by a solid margin, but I think with Lapua making Creedmoor brass now, the 6mm Creedmoor will bump back up near the top next year.
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2017/02/16/long-range-calibers-cartridges-what-the-pros-use/
I've heard the same thing and have had zero issues with two different loads and two different barrels
5th and 6th 6x47l barrel for me, actually the 6th is on a friends rifle that I sold. One was a dud of a barrel and it still shot 3/4 when new, not my friends BTW. Best barrel was capable of .1's. 3rd barrel put in some 1/2" groups at 200Y when testing seating depth.
Create a false shoulder and run in the barrel for 100 rounds, do a ladder test at 300Y - test for accuracy with seating depth and go win matches.
I am gonna do a 6 Creedmoor bbl for my Tac 30 action in the AICS 1.5 Chassis,,I am gonna do a medium or light palma at 25 inches 7.5 twist and hope and pray it will shoot the 110 Sierra,if it doesnt pan out I know the 105 VLD and Hybirds will shoot,,,,I been shooting 243 on same rifle and I am hoping to get the same speed and accuracy with maybe a little better bbl life,,,
the 143 is a heck of a round out to about 1350-1400 rounds,,
the 143 is a heck of a round out to about 1350-1400 rounds,,
Ideal for 6 Dasher, that's the go-to combo of components. Also will work well for 6x47.
Any of those are competitive. And theyre all going to have pretty much the same barrel life. Give or take 100-300 rounds. Id choose the Creedmoor out of the ones listed. Easily neck down 6.5 brass. No fireforming. I dont believe there are ANY "inherently accurate" cartidges. It all depends on the barrel. Take a shit barrel, chamber it in the most "inherently accurate" cartridge available, and its going to shoot like shit. I dont care how much you "tune" it. I went through 3 barrels chambered in the "inherently accurate" 308 Win before I found my tac driver. Its a Pacnor. Most importantly, choose a quality barrel. Pacnor, Bartlein etc
Hornady also sells virgin 6mm Creedmoor brass, no need to neck it down. Use a powder slower than H4350 and it will last a long time.
I shoot both a 6L (Rock Creek) and 6 Dasher Lapua (Bartlein) on a TL3. The 6L shoots 115 Bergers and JLK's at 3060; the Dasher shoot 105 JLK's at 2990. This is my 2nd Dasher barrel. The Bartlein is replacing the Muller Works and for whatever reason the Bartlein is shooting about 60fps faster with identical loads vs. the Muller Works. And it hasn't speeded up yet.
Consider that you will want to fire-form Lapua brass; IMHO, stay away from the Norma crap. So that's one thing.
Second, without a mag modification I can only load 5 in the mag w/o issues. But they feed fine in the TL3. I'm waiting on my Ted Mag; I hear from Josh that it works great w/o the mod.
With the 6L, you'll need to neck down the brass.
If speed is your deal, the 6L with RL26 will push 105's past 3200 w/o pressure.
Consider that you will want to fire-form Lapua brass; IMHO, stay away from the Norma crap. So that's one thing.
Second, without a mag modification I can only load 5 in the mag w/o issues. But they feed fine in the TL3. I'm waiting on my Ted Mag; I hear from Josh that it works great w/o the mod.
With the 6L, you'll need to neck down the brass.
If speed is your deal, the 6L with RL26 will push 105's past 3200 w/o pressure.
I have 6x47 and if I had it to do over again I would choose the 6 dasher, because of the inherent accuracy and consistency that Sheldon speaks of. I haven't owned a dasher yet, but I have owned a couple 6 BRs and they both shot almost any load I fed them with 1/4 moa accuracy or better. I have heard that the 6 dasher is much like the 6 BR in this respect. The 6x47 has been finicky for me during load development. I rarely try as many different load combinations as I have with the 6x47 and the best load I found will shoot just over 1/2 inch at 100 yards.
I'm not sure I'd put it that way. I'm not sure any cartridge has 'inherent accuracy'. I could be wrong about that.
My 6L shoots either RL26 or H4350 quite well. Especially in the upper node. Low single digit SD's with H4350 and 105's. I don't have numbers for the 115's yet, but will. However first shot hits at 800 happen regularly. The 6L has only just noticeable more felt recoil. I don't shoot groups at 100, but at 600 I shot a 1.5" 3-shoot group. I will normally get a 4" horizontal dispersion over 5 shots, but nearly always keep the vertical at 2" or so. I like the 6L. Dashers nice too.
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Intriguing comments by all. Like many of our other hobbies/pursuits its hard not to get caught up in horsepower numbers. I believe Dave Tooley said that accuracy lives around 3,000 fps (forgive me if I miss quoted). So going faster may not necessarily equal improved accuracy..just flatter trajectory (less environment factors affecting bullet flight). So really all good things no matter which way I may go (leaning hard on the dasher but may be swayed to the lapua side).. The bartlein barrel came in today. Excited to build this thing.
Most people pushing the faster 6mms are concerned with match speed limitations (usually 3150 or 3200). Just something to keep in mind.
I don't doubt a Dasher will shoot inside 6x47. Although my current barrel is a hummer. I want to try one someday for all the good reasons but I have to have 99% reliability.
At the last 2 day match I went to there was a guy I was squadded with that also uses a Mausingfield that had fairly regular malfunctions, another guy who shot quite well with his Dasher had more than a few too, I don't remember what action he used. I can't abide malfunctions, not at all. It's worth noting I didn't have a single malfunction in super dusty conditions with 6x47 in the Mausingfield using my modified magazine.
This is my ladder test "stupid photobucket sucks! I'll keep trying" for the current 6x47 barrel shortly after I had it installed. It's hard for any chambering to shoot this good. Later on I put 4 rounds into 1.5" at "edit 784Y" but the vertical was only 1". After that 5 shots at 906Y into 2.5".
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That's why I went to 115's with the 6L. My best node with 105's was 3150-3180. I was able to stay in a node with 115's @ 3060fps.
I wasn't chasing velocity. It's just where the SD's came together & ladder flattened.
So I went to the 600yd range this afternoon to shot the 6x47 Ladder with 115 JLK's. I had to pull the Lapua Dasher barrel; torque the 6x47 back on; put the scope (Minox ZP5) back on; reset the offset to zero for the 6L; shot one fouler at 600; the next one was in the X ring. This is a testament to Josh, PVA, and the TL3!
The ladder was as I figured. loads 42.2 to 42.8g of RL26 shot 3017 to 3037, just over an 1" of vertical. FWIW, the JLK's shoot 30-40fps slower than the Berger Hybrids. I ended with an 8 shoot group of the rest of the foulers loaded at 42.2. SD was 9.2; the group was 2.5" vertical and 4.5" horizontal.
The ladder was as I figured. loads 42.2 to 42.8g of RL26 shot 3017 to 3037, just over an 1" of vertical. FWIW, the JLK's shoot 30-40fps slower than the Berger Hybrids. I ended with an 8 shoot group of the rest of the foulers loaded at 42.2. SD was 9.2; the group was 2.5" vertical and 4.5" horizontal.
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Whichever caliber you decide, I'd strongly suggest giving the 110 SMK's a shot. I was at the range today doing some load work with them in a 243. 1/2 grain increments from 44-46.5gr H1000, 5 shot groups all under .7" with 46 and 46.5 being between .3-.4. I haven't messed with seating depth, primers, nothing but the powder charge and I think I'm about done with load work in 1 range trip and 30 rounds. Maybe I got lucky but I suspect that these bullets are very forgiving and easy to tune.
PM me please and let me know how they work out for you with the Dasher and the 6L. What action are you using?
Thanks
fellas, why is no one talking about the new sierra 110gr 6mm bullets? they are killer. they claim a bc of over .600 thats crazy, My little dasher is shooting 2950 with this bullet and its great. I also have a 6mm creedmoor and mine shoots best at 44.5 grains of H4350. I know thats a hot load but my hawkhill shoots it just fine. the creeddmoor is very accurate but my gosh, im using 12grains more powder in this thing compared to the dasher and only gaining 150fps This is simply not worth it.. the dasher is the king of the 6mm and has been for a very long time. I cant believe it took the PRS guys so long to figure this out. Anyway another cool and very accurate chambering is the 6BR Improved. All you have to do is load a 6BR and shoot the dam thing. No necking up and down crap. the 6BR Imp equals the dasher in velo and accuracy. Some might even say the 6BR imp is more accurate?? Lee
Am loving my 6mm Dasher, am pushing 110 pills at 2930, and 105 pills at 2970. Rifle hardly moves when shooting. Have a bunch of 6.5 rifles, and they now "kick" ... going to take the Dasher out to distance in 2 weeks with the 110s once i get time away from work. Will run some drills with the 6 vs 6.5 out to 1200-1300 yrads
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