6X5 Thread V5.0 *new 1/1/21*

[RainierRimfire]

When doing bipod/bag like Rainier's picture, is your body touching the rifle or are you just lining it up and pulling the trigger? I guess if I want to rule out the shooter, I should just stick the rifle in a sled to see how well ammo/gun performs?

HAHA, yeah, when I shoot I put the butt of the stock against my shoulder put the bag under the grip part of the stock. In this test I’m seeing more what the gun can do, not me. I had a Ruger Precision Rimfire that couldn’t even come close to groups like this when shooting this same way.

 

[RainierRimfire]

RainierRimfire, 50 and 100 are too easy for you. Time to go further out.

Thank you Transinator! Yes, my range only goes to 200; that’s next. It’s hard to find anything longer in the Seattle area. However, I think Littlepod is implying i’m cheating HAHA! The rules state: “lets keep this a bipod/rear bag or shooting off a ruck challenge”, right?

 

[jbell]

RainierRimfire, hell of good shooting! Especially at 100 yards. You have a pair of excellent shooting Vudoos! I look forward to more form them.

 

[jbell]

I got out to the range this afternoon and got my ass kicked by the sun. On this range in the summer your looking right into the setting sun. I need to remember to bring a sunshade or just put it on the scope and leave it. But I got a 50 yard target in barely, you can see the effects of the sun on the last 2 targets (I shoot the left row first then the right top to bottom. I only got 2 groups at 100 yards then gave up the sun was killing me, could not hold a consistent image in the scope.

 

[Sledge1]

Good shooting J.

 

[littlepod]

Thank you Transinator! Yes, my range only goes to 200; that’s next. It’s hard to find anything longer in the Seattle area. However, I think Littlepod is implying i’m cheating HAHA! The rules state: “lets keep this a bipod/rear bag or shooting off a ruck challenge”, right?

Oh I never knew there were rules, nor did I imply you were cheating. I was wondering how I could test out the maximum precision of the ammo/gun, and not me as a new shooter. Those vudoos sure can shoot. I have a lot of work to do as a shooter, and finding the right ammo fit for the rifle. Looks like midas+ is a great shooter through the vudoo and you are a great shooter too! On my 308 I only can put in at 0.7 moa @ 100, when the person with me on the same rifle will put in < 0.5.

 

[littlepod]

I got out to the range this afternoon and got my ass kicked by the sun. On this range in the summer your looking right into the setting sun. I need to remember to bring a sunshade or just put it on the scope and leave it. But I got a 50 yard target in barely, you can see the effects of the sun on the last 2 targets (I shoot the left row first then the right top to bottom. I only got 2 groups at 100 yards then gave up the sun was killing me, could not hold a consistent image in the scope.

What rifle/ammo setup is that?

 

[jbell]

Oh I never knew there were rules, nor did I imply you were cheating. I was wondering how I could test out the maximum precision of the ammo/gun, and not me as a new shooter. Those vudoos sure can shoot. I have a lot of work to do as a shooter, and finding the right ammo fit for the rifle. Looks like midas+ is a great shooter through the vudoo and you are a great shooter too! On my 308 I only can put in at 0.7 moa @ 100, when the person with me on the same rifle will put in < 0.5.

When we first started this thread we had a few “rules” I think which are still on the 1st page. This was initially intended to be shot off a bipod and rear bag from the prone position mainly to keep the training part alive. But there are some people who physically can’t go prone any more, so a lot of people shoot it from a bench and even off of a more sturdy rest. To me that is fine, because this thread has morphed from seeing how good of a shooter you are to how good we can get rimfires to shoot. The only rule that I try to enforce is a complete target has to be shot on the same day with no extra rounds on any one particular bull. Meaning no cherry picking, just let the chips fall where they may. And we are going off the honor system, make the range your shooting at be correct (no cheating by going short).

What rifle/ammo setup is that?

Vudoo V-22 20” Ace Kukri in a Manners folder with a mini chassis and a MK5 CCH on top supported by a Harris and a TAB rear bag.

 

[RainierRimfire]

Oh I never knew there were rules, nor did I imply you were cheating. I was wondering how I could test out the maximum precision of the ammo/gun, and not me as a new shooter. Those vudoos sure can shoot. I have a lot of work to do as a shooter, and finding the right ammo fit for the rifle. Looks like midas+ is a great shooter through the vudoo and you are a great shooter too! On my 308 I only can put in at 0.7 moa @ 100, when the person with me on the same rifle will put in < 0.5.

Thanks! I was totally being sarcastic. I didn’t make that come across obvious enough in my text.

 

[Steelhead]

Has anyone done a comparison with a suppressed vs. non-suppressed rifle? I did a quick test, but need to do further testing. What I found was some rounds that do really well non-suppressed, did terrible suppressed and vice-versa.

 

[littlepod]

Has anyone done a comparison with a suppressed vs. non-suppressed rifle? I did a quick test, but need to do further testing. What I found was some rounds that do really well non-suppressed, did terrible suppressed and vice-versa.

I did a 10x5 suppressed yesterday and I saw less vertical variance then all my other 6x5 unsuppressed. I'll keep comparing between them.

 

[RainierRimfire]

Has anyone done a comparison with a suppressed vs. non-suppressed rifle? I did a quick test, but need to do further testing. What I found was some rounds that do really well non-suppressed, did terrible suppressed and vice-versa.

I have done the same cursory testing with .22lr as you and had the same results as you; inconclusive. However, I am absolutely more accurate with my 6.5cm precision rifle suppressed, than non-suppressed.

 

[littlepod]

I have done the same cursory testing with .22lr as you and had the same results as you; inconclusive. However, I am absolutely more accurate with my 6.5cm precision rifle suppressed, than non-suppressed.

Is it the recoil / recovery of getting back on target? On my 308, I'm more precise when shooting it with a brake, just because the recoil reduction really helps me maintain the exact same cheek/positioning vs no brake. My TBAC Ultra 7 won't be here for 14 mo

Rainier, where do you shoot at btw if you don't mind me asking. I'm in SEA area, trying to find somewhere > 200 yards to stretch my .308 and waiting on Cascade's 6 yr list is never going to happen...

 

[RainierRimfire]

Is it the recoil / recovery of getting back on target? On my 308, I'm more precise when shooting it with a brake, just because the recoil reduction really helps me maintain the exact same cheek/positioning vs no brake. My TBAC Ultra 7 won't be here for 14 mo

Rainier, where do you shoot at btw if you don't mind me asking. I'm in SEA area, trying to find somewhere > 200 yards to stretch my .308 and waiting on Cascade's 6 yr list is never going to happen...

Yeah, I believe in part, or in whole, recoil/recovery is a factor in the accuracy difference. Mostly I just know it works.
TBAC’s are very nice!

After trying out numerous ranges within a reasonable driving distance from where I live, I settled on Renton Fish and Game Club. It is relatively well maintained and it’s ran very well. The staff and members are a nice group of people. Downside is it only goes out to 200 yards. If it’s close to you, try it out. I am there most Saturday’s by 10am. They have a .22 match the first Saturday of the month at 10am. It is not a NRL22 event, however.

HAHA, I am number 282 on Cascade’s waitlist. That puts me at being a member around the year 2032.

 

[tansinator]

Has anyone done a comparison with a suppressed vs. non-suppressed rifle? I did a quick test, but need to do further testing. What I found was some rounds that do really well non-suppressed, did terrible suppressed and vice-versa.

My Vudoo shoots great until I put a suppressor on it and group size doubles. With every ammo I've tried. Liberty Kodiak, I am going to contact them soon and see if there is a fix.

 

[BigRed308]

Somehow just found this thread. I am going to be giving it a go tomorrow with my CZ 457 MTR. I'll throw down my best pictures at 50 and 100.

 

[jbell]

Somehow just found this thread. I am going to be giving it a go tomorrow with my CZ 457 MTR. I'll throw down my best pictures at 50 and 100.

Welcome

 

[BigRed308]

Well here it is. Not my best shooting so don’t let it reflect on the setup too much. I got to the range at 7:30am and shot a match then didn’t shoot this until about 2:15 pm. So some shooter fatigue played in.

CZ 457
No modifications
Harris bipod/ Triad Bag
Prone

Lapua Center-X
Shot one target to season the barrel then this one right after.

Strong winds. My Kestrel was in the truck but I was holding 2 moa of wind at 50 yards.

Someone walked away with my calipers so I was stuck using a ruler for measurements. Came out with a 0.447” average once I converted to decimals.

 

[jbell]

I have you on the board. How did you do in the match, what kind of match was it?

 

[BigRed308]

I have you on the board. How did you do in the match, what kind of match was it?

It was actually a benchrest match. Gun was shooting better then, or atleast the shooter. Hung shot for shot with a Anschutz. Finished top of factory class and middle of custom class

 

[drglock]

Cz 457 Varmint
Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50
SK Rifle Match
6x5 at 50yds

Not quite at the limitations of the gun but I think I’m getting close, more of the limitations of the shooter. The groups that are opened up are mostly when I lose focus on my fundamentals.

 

[BigRed308]

Cz 457 Varmint
Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50
SK Rifle Match
6x5 at 50yds
View attachment 7110800
Not quite at the limitations of the gun but I think I’m getting close, more of the limitations of the shooter. The groups that are opened up are mostly when I lose focus on my fundamentals.

Did you measure furthest edge to edge then subtract the .222? Just wondering

 

[drglock]

Did you measure furthest edge to edge then subtract the .222? Just wondering

Yes I measure from edge of grease mark to edge of grease mark and subtract .222

 

[littlepod]

I always find discrepancy with caliper measuring, versus using software. .222 is a pretty lenient measurement. If I set my calipers to .222 it usually is a good decent size spacing from the edge of the grease marks. So like if I looked at the black marks, the outer edge and giving it the most miniscule of white space, to the other outer edge giving it miniscule white space is around .222.

Usually I take a picture of the paper with rangebuddy, set the paper as 11" tall for the ruler setting, and then it'll do all the internal measurements.

 

[jbell]

Nice improvement drglock!

 

[Anderson_A]

Finally got out and did some proper 6x5s with my new vudoo and some sk long range
Shot at 50 yards 82degrees with a 2-4mph from 3oclock
Left hand V22, 20” Bartlein mtu , mpa hybrid chassis, tt diamond at 1lb, athlon ares etr 4.5-30

.273 and .290 avg I just read the comment about using .222 to subtract and will do so moving forward but these were measured with my dial caliper to the hundredth anyway
Center x is on the way to try and improve on these

 

[jbell]

I have you up to dated Anderson_A

 

[Anderson_A]

Wow I did not think that would be a competitive score really goes to show how good the vudoo is the only thing I regret is not buying it sooner I almost ordered one a dozen times and really couldn’t see spending that $ but it really is that good

 

[barronian]

Sig Sauer 200 STR, Delta 5-50x56
bipod prone
51m c. 56 yards
17degC little wind.

I'm still trying to learn what fundamentals suit me so consistency is ... somewhat missing ;-)

ive been keeping track of my results with different ammo - it may be of interest to others

I was using a clay pigeon range today and there wasn't anything to put the targets on at 50m - hence the 51m

 

[brianf]

i love the bottom graph set up
never thought of switching from a spreadsheet

 

[barronian]

i love the bottom graph set up
never thought of switching from a spreadsheet

i find it useful - it helps to separate 'my errors' from ammo variation and i can change the axis to show my progression over time. ... besides i'm a nerd ;-)

 

[drglock]

Cz457 Varmint
Athlon Ares BTR
SK Rifle Match
Tuner setting 372
Temp. 82
Wind 5-8 from my 5:00
DA 3997
Humidity 36%
50 yards prone

 

[jbell]

Nice shooting guys, I have everything up to date.

 

[10ring1]

Has anyone done a comparison with a suppressed vs. non-suppressed rifle? I did a quick test, but need to do further testing. What I found was some rounds that do really well non-suppressed, did terrible suppressed and vice-versa.

Ymmv but my Vudoo does not play well with my supressor (pilot). Groups were double in size

 

[drglock]

Cz 457 Varmint
Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50
Harrell Tuner setting 373
SK Rifle Match
Bipod and rear bag
Temp: 80
Alt. 962
Humidity 44%
6x5@50 yards

 

[littlepod]

Cz 457 Varmint
Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50
Harrell Tuner setting 373
SK Rifle Match
Bipod and rear bag
Temp: 80
Alt. 962
Humidity 44%
6x5@50 yards
View attachment 7117627

How well did it shoot without a tuner? Can you get tuners for any rifle? I wonder if it's worth getting one for my T1X to play with.

 

[drglock]

If you go up to post #571 , that was my best 6x5 before switching to the tuner. This is my buddies tuner but after playing with it I ordered one for my rifle yesterday. According to his website he can make one for barrels.750-1.016 in diameter.

Harrell Rimfire Tuners

 

[jbell]

Dang man! That is a huge improvement, I hate to say the tuner is making a big difference as I don’t want to take anything away from your shooting. But either way I am very impressed! I have always stayed away from tuners mainly out of laziness but to get results like that with a factory CZ changes the game.

 

[drglock]

Dang man! That is a huge improvement, I hate to say the tuner is making a big difference as I don’t want to take anything away from your shooting. But either way I am very impressed! I have always stayed away from tuners mainly out of laziness but to get results like that with a factory CZ changes the game.

I know I’m learning more every time I go out and a lot good things happened today. Wind was almost nonexistent this morning and that’s a rarity here in Oklahoma. I’ve installed a trigger spring and got my trigger down to 10oz and this is a pretty good lot of SKRM. What I’ve noticed since playing with the tuner is my groups are more consistent now .
I shot this 6x5 right after I shot the one I turned in . The first shot in group 1 is the one that’s way high and right. I’m positive it wasn’t me but maybe a deformed round that I didn’t notice when I loaded it. But as you can see every shot after that was right on.

 

[jbell]

I hate to say it, but that’s rimfire. I see that stuff from time to time and only can assume it is the ammo. Even with the very “best” ammo you see it, just with the expensive stuff the distance it is out is usually less and they occur less frequently. What I look for in an accurate rifle / ammo combo is exactly what your targets are starting to show, neatly arranged round tightly packed groups that are on the same POI every time (minus the winds effect). Once you have that you can then start working on reducing total group size with lot selection, or refining your processes to minimize the human effect.

 

[justin amateur]

I’m positive it wasn’t me but maybe a deformed round that I didn’t notice when I loaded it.

That right there, is what I've learned over the past year, sending 50 shots of rimfire at 200 yards.
Vertical can be explained with mv spread and a crosswind will show as lateral spread
but on those calm mornings when the chronograph shows tight mv's and I'm holding steady on center
those odd strays still keep showing up. It wasn't until I started inspecting every cartridge before chambering
that the pattern made sense. It wasn't wind, or mv shift, or me failing to follow through, it was cartridge defects.
If your cartridges aren't all exactly the same shape, then aerodynamics will spin those rounds off on random flights.
I can predict just how bad my results will be, by taking a close look at the cartridge before chambering it.

Zoom in on those 22lr cartridges, count the defects that are visible.
Look at the dents, dings, scratches, distorted/inclined drive bands.
If the nose and sides are beat to hell, what do you think the bullet heel looks like?
Do you really think those rounds will fly the same trajectory?

Crappy ammo produces crappy results.
The further the crap flies, the wider the spread when it hits.

 

[10ring1]

Justin, what ammo is that? I see a few that are really bad regarding the concentricity of the bullet shoulder I guess u would call it

 

[justin amateur]

CCI AR Tactical, results in the link below

50 at 200

Imo, the 'odds' of the 1st shot often being the 'hot one' wouldn't/couldn't consistently be the luck of drawing a higher velo load out of the box. It would possibly be some of them, sure, but would make me consider it is something else as the primary causal factor. Fwiw, when it matters to me I...

www.rimfirecentral.com

 

[JG26_Irish]

I know I’m learning more every time I go out and a lot good things happened today. Wind was almost nonexistent this morning and that’s a rarity here in Oklahoma. I’ve installed a trigger spring and got my trigger down to 10oz and this is a pretty good lot of SKRM. What I’ve noticed since playing with the tuner is my groups are more consistent now .
I shot this 6x5 right after I shot the one I turned in . The first shot in group 1 is the one that’s way high and right. I’m positive it wasn’t me but maybe a deformed round that I didn’t notice when I loaded it. But as you can see every shot after that was right on.
View attachment 7117899

That is some impressive shooting. I have also had good luck with a tuner in the past. That wild flyer in group 1 could be anything. Was it a cold bore shot? They are often high to the right. You said it was a calm day. I have a BR expert friend who is older and very experienced with rimfire precision shooting who claims that when there is zero wind some guns and ammo combos will throw weird flyers for no reason. He says the 22lr needs a little wind to help stabilize the projectile. Is he right? I dunno. I have not seen it result in a flyer quite that bad. Your CZ is a repeater, it may have shaved a little lead off of one side of the bullet which caused it to veer off course. 22 kind of wobbles down range on a good day.

Irish

 

[Anderson_A]

Center x is definitely an improvement in my gun over the sk long range it feels like it would shoot everything into .1xx if I was not involved

Included a pic of the rifle this time it’s quickly become my most used rifle by a long shot. I would like to shoot it out of a rest or a good set of bags at some point and see what it can do at 100 I really feel like I’m holding the rifle back at 100

 

[jbell]

The Center X is the right ammo for most V-22, nice improvement!

 

[A-Rob]

I really need to try a tuner on mine. Does anyone know if the PRXIII tuner is still being made? It has been out of stock at Killoughs forever

 

[jbell]

Call Killoughs, they are great to work with and super helpful. I bet they can point you in the right direction.

 

[A-Rob]

Call Killoughs, they are great to work with and super helpful. I bet they can point you in the right direction.

I'll do that Monday.

 

[drglock]

Cz 457 Varmint
SK Rifle Match
Wind: 3-6mph 2:00
Temp: 83
Alt: 1024
Humidity: 42%
Prone 200 yards 6x5
This is without the tuner.