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6X5 Thread V5.0 *new 1/1/21*
- Thread starter jbell
- Start date
Orkan, welcome to the 6X5. I have been waiting a long time for you to join in, great to have you and I certainly look forward to more especially after it warms up. I have you on the results with the first entry for a Zermatt Rim X based rifle. Those Benchmark barrels shoot pretty good don’t they!
Please don’t be a stranger, I really enjoyed the video version. I haven’t thought about trying to shoot one on video, maybe I’ll have to get a phone adapter for my spotting scope.
Attempt #2
TS Customs RimX Rifle
Zermatt Arms RimX Action
26" Benchmark 3-groove 16.5 twist MTU contour, 22LR Primal 2° chamber
McMillan "McWoody" A5A stock, bedded, TS Customs adjustable cheek hardware
Triggertech Diamond trigger
Hawkins Precision bottom metal & heavy tactical scope mount
Tangent Theta 525P GenIIXR
Atlas PSR bipod
Date: 4/16/20 6:15AM
Wind: 7:00, 6-9mph
Temp: 24F
Station Pressure: 27.32 inHg
Humidity: 66%
Ammo: RWS R50
6x5 average: 0.233"
Video of target shot:
Bulls 5-10.
TS Customs RimX Rifle
Zermatt Arms RimX Action
26" Benchmark 3-groove 16.5 twist MTU contour, 22LR Primal 2° chamber
McMillan "McWoody" A5A stock, bedded, TS Customs adjustable cheek hardware
Triggertech Diamond trigger
Hawkins Precision bottom metal & heavy tactical scope mount
Tangent Theta 525P GenIIXR
Atlas PSR bipod
Date: 4/16/20 6:15AM
Wind: 7:00, 6-9mph
Temp: 24F
Station Pressure: 27.32 inHg
Humidity: 66%
Ammo: RWS R50
6x5 average: 0.233"
Video of target shot:
Bulls 5-10.
Greg, nice shooting especially considering the temp! I have seen some serious loss of accuracy when the air temps get down into or below the low 20’s, I find that the wind effects POI more in those temps than when it is warm. Also I have never had great luck with R50 in any of my rifles (and there have been a lot of them), so that is cool to see it shooting well in yours. I am loving the videos, please keep them coming! I have your 50 yards results updated.
I think there is a PDF in the first few pages of this thread. But feel free to use any target you want.
6X5 entry at 100 yards. Vudoo, NF 7-35, SK Biathlon, Bipod and rear bag from a bench. Shooting out of my garage. Temp in garage was 52* and outside was 45*. Target measured 101 yards from my seat with a Vortex range finder. Wind was switching and I was adjusting my scope chasing the bullseye.
I measured my groups two ways. I had installed a Ballistic-X App on my phone so I was learning how to use it. Group sizes written in black are from that. I also measured with my Lyman Dial Caliper. The group sizes written in red are from that. Considerable difference. With the caliper I measured the widest part of the group as close to the edge as I could then subtracted .222". I thought that perhaps because my tape measure was curved it gave an erroneous reading so I remeasured one group using a flat ruler for the 1 inch reference. Closer. ?? I'm going to experiment to see where the error is.
I will call my average as .898" and my smallest group is .455".
Strange about the app vs caliper, I would have expected a bit closer... I have your average updated.
Setting the reference distance in the first two steps of the app are extremely important to having the program function correctly.
I think this is the secret. I just measured one group 2 more times. Using the caliper I got .827". Three tries with the Ballistci-X app gave me .78", .84" and .71". I have trouble with the cursor moving when I lift my finger after placing it over the shot. I tried a stylus and had the same problem. I wonder if there is a sensitivity setting for my I-Phone? I'll try some more.
I just had my wife measure the same group using the app and resetting the reference size. She got .81".
I'm just going to continue to use my caliper. Much simpler.
I measure to 3 decimal points and I'm closer to the same reading no matter how many times I do it. The app only measures to 2 decimal points and I can't get it to be consistent.
My groups seem to measure bigger with the caliper but they're much more consistent. I measure to the outermost point of the 2 furthest shots and subtract .222".
I'm just going to continue to use my caliper. Much simpler.
I measure to 3 decimal points and I'm closer to the same reading no matter how many times I do it. The app only measures to 2 decimal points and I can't get it to be consistent.My groups seem to measure bigger with the caliper but they're much more consistent. I measure to the outermost point of the 2 furthest shots and subtract .222".
I just had my wife measure the same group using the app and resetting the reference size. She got .81".
I'm just going to continue to use my caliper. Much simpler.
My groups seem to measure bigger with the caliper but they're much more consistent. I measure to the outermost point of the 2 furthest shots and subtract .222".
I tried the app a few years ago and also had a hard time getting consistent measurements, especially when the groups are one very small hole. But whatever your comfortable with is fine.
Things that might help ?
I assume that in Ballistic-X you are:
1. taking the initial picture so that just one bull is photographed at a time and not the whole target ?
2. setting the caliber in Ballistic-X to .22
3: zooming in to the picture, both to set the reference distance and to place the shots ?
This is the result i got just using the little picture in your posting and trying to overlay the shot picks that you made. Repeating this 5 times gave me exactly the same answer each time... The picture I show below isn't zoomed - its the picture as taken in Ballistic-X. I then zoom in to place the shots and set the reference distance.
Hope this helps - Ballistic-X can make it so much easier to get consistent measurements.
Last edited:
The aspect ratio of that image appears to be a bit off... as the circle is more of an oval. I popped it open in photoshop and drew a perfect circle, and as you can see, the target image you used @barronian is definitely skewed. Taking a picture of the screen probably did that to you.
Before posting my original targets, I checked them with a caliper and mine were spot on (give or take the thousandths place).
Obviously in order for the program to work correctly, the image it's working with must be full and true aspect ratio. If not, the calibration and the measurements will both be off.
Before posting my original targets, I checked them with a caliper and mine were spot on (give or take the thousandths place).
Obviously in order for the program to work correctly, the image it's working with must be full and true aspect ratio. If not, the calibration and the measurements will both be off.
Well i had an interesting day today, got to lie in the sun at a comfortable 70 deg F while the target was sitting at 37 F
Very little wind, just some 'interesting' thermals, so i managed 5 semi random acts of 5 shot accuracy This is my new personal best - 0.306 MOA at 100m.
Pity they wernt all on the same 6x5
Sig Sauer STR 200, Eley Match, Rempel bipod and a rear bag.
Very little wind, just some 'interesting' thermals, so i managed 5 semi random acts of 5 shot accuracy
This is my new personal best - 0.306 MOA at 100m.Pity they wernt all on the same 6x5
Sig Sauer STR 200, Eley Match, Rempel bipod and a rear bag.
Well i had an interesting day today, got to lie in the sun at a comfortable 70 deg F while the target was sitting at 37 F
View attachment 7302247
Very little wind, just some 'interesting' thermals, so i managed 5 semi random acts of 5 shot accuracy
Pity they wernt all on the same 6x5
Sig Sauer STR 200, Eley Match, Rempel bipod and a rear bag.
View attachment 7302243
That's a wicked looking bipod! I noticed you have it mounted pretty far back vs. out front. Do you see a difference in accuracy at that position, or is it purely a readily available place to mount it. I can't tell, do you have a conventional bipod on the front? Those 200's are super nice rifles, I've never seen one in the USA.
Well barronian you said ”keep them coming “ so here is one at 100 yds..
ONE MUST BE A STUDENT OF THE WIND ?
I don’t know if it’s an ADDICTION or an AFFLICTION
ONE MUST BE A STUDENT OF THE WIND ?
I don’t know if it’s an ADDICTION or an AFFLICTION
Barronian! What did you do?
Semi-random? Really?
A new phrase to describe rimfire groups?
I like it. Well played.
Semi-random? Really?
A new phrase to describe rimfire groups?
I like it. Well played.
DRACO, welcome I have you on the 50 yard and 100 yard results. Not that I care but your MOA conversion is a bit off, you divide the group size by 1.047 for 100 yards and 0.524 for 50 yards. I have it corrected in the results.
Winds were reasonably calm today. So I pulled out the Mark Penrod built H&R model 12.
Had a mild 2-5MPH wind switching from left to right. As you can see on the 9x5, the first 3x5 had some left dispersion. However, the next three went so well I didn’t let up and ran with another 3x5 to see what would happen. Ended up with a .605 average. This rifle is amazing. Took it back to 203 and printed a 1.95” 10 shot group.
Jbell, I don’t know if a continuation 6x5 counts, if it does, drop it in for the new list. If not, I guess I’ll have to drag the M12 back out. It’ll be torture...
Had a mild 2-5MPH wind switching from left to right. As you can see on the 9x5, the first 3x5 had some left dispersion. However, the next three went so well I didn’t let up and ran with another 3x5 to see what would happen. Ended up with a .605 average. This rifle is amazing. Took it back to 203 and printed a 1.95” 10 shot group.
Jbell, I don’t know if a continuation 6x5 counts, if it does, drop it in for the new list. If not, I guess I’ll have to drag the M12 back out. It’ll be torture...
Heck yeah it counts, the groups were shot consecutively so its good to go. Great shooting! Based on that rifles previous results I am assuming this is a 100 yard target, correct?
100 yards indeed. And thank you, but I gotta say Mark Penrod built a heck of a rifle. Starting to push back to 203 yards more often. (my range is a bit non-standard) May have to do a 6x5 at 200!
Stepped up my game and made wind flags. Showed me quite a bit in today’s outing. The correlation between mirage boil, to laying moving with the wind hit home today. It’s a subtle shift with light winds.
The bipod is a Rempel - a really nice Canadian F-class bipod. It is mounted so that i can just reach it from the shooting position to adjust the height. Vibration wise it is quite a good place for it as well. The othe mount, the one in front of the bipod, is a plate for use on a Sinclair Competition rest . I actually find it easier to get good results using the Rempel than i do with the Sinclair. although the Sinclair is a joy to adjust.
Agreed the STR is a really nice rifle, the more i try other people's guns the more i appreciate mine
no, no, no! to do it right you have to get your best group in the first group ... then go downhill from there
Good to see i've got company !@justin amateur i didnt want to just use your term without giving due credit - and i was too lazy to write the credits !Barronian! What did you do?
Semi-random? Really?
A new phrase to describe rimfire groups?
I like it. Well played.
also since i managed to get 5 out of 17 groups I thought it was justified to elevate its status to semi-random
It really could be either, I suppose you could have another really good shooter shoot your rifle or you could try another very accurate rifle and see.
I that last target a 50m submission? If so what Was the order they were shot in or which series of targets?
I that last target a 50m submission? If so what Was the order they were shot in or which series of targets?
Is it the limitations of the rifle or shooter?
Could be the limitations incurred by the ammunition.
Doesn't take much of a cartridge defect to cause trajectory dispersion.
I can produce 1/4 moa at 100 yards with my centerfire hand loads,
but that doesn't happen with rimfire.
The problem isn't me or the rifles, it's the ammo.
The chronograph agrees.
Could be the limitations incurred by the ammunition.
Doesn't take much of a cartridge defect to cause trajectory dispersion.
I can produce 1/4 moa at 100 yards with my centerfire hand loads,
but that doesn't happen with rimfire.
The problem isn't me or the rifles, it's the ammo.
The chronograph agrees.
Is it the limitations of the rifle or shooter?
Could be the limitations incurred by the ammunition.
Doesn't take much of a cartridge defect to cause trajectory dispersion.
I can produce 1/4 moa at 100 yards with my centerfire hand loads,
but that doesn't happen with rimfire.
The problem isn't me or the rifles, it's the ammo.
The chronograph agrees.
To a large extent i agree with this - fits with my observations too... but a well driven benchrest setup should get a better average than 0.65 MOA with Eley Match ? shouldnt it ? If that is the case then i haven't reached the limitation of the ammo yet ?
i have no doubt that with 22 lr, ammo is less consistent than hand loaded centerfires but I think than my inconsistencies and the wind are the most likely probs. I rarely shoot past 50 yd.
The real issue with 22lr and wind... is tiny wind intensity affects these low BC bullets so dramatically in short distances. Without at least 3 comprehensive sets of specialized wind flags between you and the 50yd target... you just can't see those tiny nuances of the wind. Pretty easy to wrangle it all enough to consistently shoot small groups. It's a whole other endeavor to shoot for SCORE.
and now for something totally different ....
I was messing around with an old Sony RX100 mounted to my scope by a bit of nylon drainage tube ...
I suspect this is the first picture of a 6x5 on a floating concrete dock
I didnt want to freak out the boat owners toooo much so i refrained from shooting it !
scope is a Delta Stryker 5-50 x 56 at 40x.
its not quite sharp (hand holding the rifle and the dock is moving in the waves) but it was a fun proof of concept
I was messing around with an old Sony RX100 mounted to my scope by a bit of nylon drainage tube ...
I suspect this is the first picture of a 6x5 on a floating concrete dock
I didnt want to freak out the boat owners toooo much so i refrained from shooting it !
scope is a Delta Stryker 5-50 x 56 at 40x.
its not quite sharp (hand holding the rifle and the dock is moving in the waves) but it was a fun proof of concept
Calm weather prevailed again today, so I made the best of it. The M12 pulled a .571” 100 yard average. Personal best with that rifle.
Working through some Eley lot testing. With the current tuner setting, this rifle seems to excel with something in the 1060-1065 FPS range. Such an interesting and addictive game.
Working through some Eley lot testing. With the current tuner setting, this rifle seems to excel with something in the 1060-1065 FPS range. Such an interesting and addictive game.
It certainly is, and I completely lucked into it. Picked it up off Rimfire Central, seller didn't really point out the M. Penrod part on the barrel so most seem to think it was an average M12. I'd talked to Mark about working on one of my 52's so I knew of his work. So I figured if Mark Penrod would work on a H&R it was worth a chance at $750… Wouldn't take $2750 for it. I do wish the trigger were a bit better but, It makes me earn every shot. I've ordered one of the Nightforce cantilever mounts (running two on winchester model 52's) so I can get some extra MOA. I'm about 1.5 Mils short at the 200 yard line, so 20 MOA mount here we go. Once the mount is in, I'm gonna run the 6x5 at 200 ? !
Well, the stars aligned for me this weekend! Practically no wind at all! I wish I would have had time to shoot some groups at 100 yards, but I had to leave. I did manage to shoot a 12" plate at 300 yards 5 out of 5 though! Best results I've ever had with this rifle:
Rifle is a Vudoo in a Manners T6A stock with mini-chasis; Timney Calvin Elite trigger; Cabela's Covenant 5 scope in Nightforce Unimount; Atlas Super-CAL bipod; rear bag; Lapua Center-X ammo.
Beautiful day at the range!!
Rifle is a Vudoo in a Manners T6A stock with mini-chasis; Timney Calvin Elite trigger; Cabela's Covenant 5 scope in Nightforce Unimount; Atlas Super-CAL bipod; rear bag; Lapua Center-X ammo.
Beautiful day at the range!!
