6X5 Thread V5.0 *new 1/1/21*

[jbell]

I got out to the range right before dark to zero a scope so I brought along my daughters Vudoos to see how they shot in the cold. It was 20f when I got to the range and 18f when I left at dark. The rifles and ammo both sat out in the cold for about an hour while I was monkeying around. Then I ripped 15 rounds through each of them as fast as I could (mainly because I was freezing). I think the results are interesting. Note how each rifle shot very similar through the string, they progressively shot better as the barrel warmed. Both are also zeroed for 60f air temp, same POI shift too.

I'm not going to post this on the results as it's with 2 different rifles, just thought I would share it. For what it's worth every precision rimfire rifle I have owned has behaved the same in the cold.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

jbell,
Thank you for putting this together and organizing the results. Lots of good data to review on this thread and a challenge that is fun as it is informative while practicing.

Genuine question: what was your reasoning behind choosing the 6x5?
This eliminates the "cherry-picked" groups and a 10 shot group can be difficult to resolve especially for 50-yard groups.

Were the 30 rounds chosen to provide the correct sample size to provide enough statistical power (n=30) for a confidence interval (p<.05)?
Or perhaps 30 rounds because higher quality ammo comes in 50 round boxes and some may use 20 rounds to season the barrel?
Or a different reason completely?
Or I'm overthinking this and I should go out and shoot more.

Appreciate your advice and keep up the great work.

Happy shooting

 

[jbell]

jbell,
Thank you for putting this together and organizing the results. Lots of good data to review on this thread and a challenge that is fun as it is informative while practicing.

Genuine question: what was your reasoning behind choosing the 6x5?
This eliminates the "cherry-picked" groups and a 10 shot group can be difficult to resolve especially for 50-yard groups.

Were the 30 rounds chosen to provide the correct sample size to provide enough statistical power (n=30) for a confidence interval (p<.05)?
Or perhaps 30 rounds because higher quality ammo comes in 50 round boxes and some may use 20 rounds to season the barrel?
Or a different reason completely?
Or I'm overthinking this and I should go out and shoot more.

Appreciate your advice and keep up the great work.

Happy shooting

My good friend Bob (BM11) originally started this thread but he was too busy to manage it so I took it over. Back then there was a 6X5 challenge for gas guns that Elfster had going. Bob just copied his format for rimfire. I would have to assume it's 30 rounds because that is 1 magazine for an AR platform. Nothing very sexy about it really.

I did try and get a 5X10 going a few years ago but it never gained traction...

 

[Mr. Wolf]

My good friend Bob (BM11) originally started this thread but he was too busy to manage it so I took it over. Back then there was a 6X5 challenge for gas guns that Elfster had going. Bob just copied his format for rimfire. I would have to assume it's 30 rounds because that is 1 magazine for an AR platform. Nothing very sexy about it really.

I did try and get a 5X10 going a few years ago but it never gained traction...

Thanks. I appreciate the explanation, makes practical sense.
2021 targets on the way as soon as the weather cooperates.
Happy shooting

 

[elfster1234]

I Think I started the first 6x5 group for semi auto back in 2012? And then the bolt action soon after. It went on for a few years until I got tired of running it and I passed the torch on. A lot of people actually participated back then. I simply started the 6x5 shooting comp threads back then because I was simply tired of people saying "I shoot .5moa all day long".... so I said, oh really? Prove it..... not that many people did so and it really did give those, especially those just starting out, a real world expectation of what to expect out of a particular rifle and how much reloading made the difference with load development. It really did shut up the. 5moa all day long peps and especially those that loved to cherry pick that one group with a finger over the flier..... ohhhhh, you know who you are!

jbell,
Thank you for putting this together and organizing the results. Lots of good data to review on this thread and a challenge that is fun as it is informative while practicing.

Genuine question: what was your reasoning behind choosing the 6x5?
This eliminates the "cherry-picked" groups and a 10 shot group can be difficult to resolve especially for 50-yard groups.

Were the 30 rounds chosen to provide the correct sample size to provide enough statistical power (n=30) for a confidence interval (p<.05)?
Or perhaps 30 rounds because higher quality ammo comes in 50 round boxes and some may use 20 rounds to season the barrel?
Or a different reason completely?
Or I'm overthinking this and I should go out and shoot more.

Appreciate your advice and keep up the great work.

Happy shooting

 

[jbell]

I Think I started the first 6x5 group for semi auto back in 2012? And then the bolt action soon after. It went on for a few years until I got tired of running it and I passed the torch on. A lot of people actually participated back then. I simply started the 6x5 shooting comp threads back then because I was simply tired of people saying "I shoot .5moa all day long".... so I said, oh really? Prove it..... not that many people did so and it really did give those, especially those just starting out, a real world expectation of what to expect out of a particular rifle and how much reloading made the difference with load development. It really did shut up the. 5moa all day long peps and especially those that loved to cherry pick that one group with a finger over the flier..... ohhhhh, you know who you are!

How close was I on the round count thing? Was it 6X5=30 rounds b/c of magazine capacity of the AR platforms or just shit luck that it was the same?

Good to have you here in this thread, you unintentionally created a lot of work for me. HA! But I truly enjoy keeping this thread going, I have been fortunate to have seen some pretty kick ass targets over the years.

 

[elfster1234]

How close was I on the round count thing? Was it 6X5=30 rounds b/c of magazine capacity of the AR platforms or just shit luck that it was the same?

Good to have you here in this thread, you unintentionally created a lot of work for me. HA! But I truly enjoy keeping this thread going, I have been fortunate to have seen some pretty kick ass targets over the years.

I was going to do 4x5 initially but figured 6x5 would prove you can do it "all day long"... really the only reason

 

[Krob95]

My newest vudoo, figured it was time to do a little 6x5 @ 100yds. Maybe 800 rounds through it now as of this target. Shot at 100yds unsuppressed. The little hole on the target on #3 (bottom left) to the right of the circle was from sighting in. Didn’t feel like pulling the target back in. Shot indoors off a bench w/ bag and bipod

AVG group size: 0.545 MOA

Largest group size: 0.81 MOA (insert fucking embarrassing gif from letterkenny here)

Smallest group size: 0.26MOA


Vudoo V-22
Ace barrel 20” MTU
Manner PRS-TCS stock
Tangent Theta 5-25x Gen2XR
TriggerTech Diamond 2 Stage
PURG ELR rear bag
MDT Gen 2 Ckye Pod
Non lot tested Lapua Center X

 

[jbell]

Very nice job, I have you on the 100 yds results. However the math did not add up to your MOA #, let me know if I am wrong but I double checked mine.

I friggin love Letterkenny, “Barb”

 

[Krob95]

there’s a reason I failed college trig twice and went to work in the oil field vs perusing a degree in anything I got the first number right at least lol

 

[jbell]

Home is where the Barb is...

 

[Krob95]

Got a good chuckle from that

 

[Quickoz]

Went to the range this morning as I had to zero my Anschutz 22LR with a spare Bushnell 5-15x40 Tac Optics as the Elite 4200 6-24x40 I had on it was too finicky with eye relief I was finding. Plus the mildots are handy when smashing bunnys. I zeroed at 25m, and confirmed dope in applied ballistics at 50m and 100m.

I also decided to shoot the 6x5 for some practice. I dare say I need it and Im also going to shortern my stock by 1/2in this afternoon as its just a tad to long to be 100% comfy when prone off the pack.

Cheers guys.

 

[jbell]

Quickoz, welcome. I have you on the results. What stock is your Anschutz in? Factory wood stock but painted or something different? I just don't recognize it.

 

[Quickoz]

Quickoz, welcome. I have you on the results. What stock is your Anschutz in? Factory wood stock but painted or something different? I just don't recognize it.

Hey mate, Cheers. It was good fun. I'll be doing it again on a regular basis.

Its a Boyd's Pro Varmint in the black. Had it pillar and glass bedded. The normal classic stock just didn't feel right to me.

 

[Tomiboy]

Jesse, When someone shoots a 6 x 5 with a V22S will it be designated as such? I'm anxious to see how they do vs. the repeater?

Thanks!

 

[jbell]

Yes, I'll try and remember to do that.

 

[jhr1986]

Haven't been to the range in a few months because I spend my winter free time snowboarding but I decided to go this morning to test out a new lot of SK Pistol Match Special. Shot two boxes indoors at 50 yards, all into 5 round groups. The CTC average of all 20 groups was .317" (.608 MOA). Best group, which is also the best group I've ever shot, was .091", though that group was not included in this 6x5 as it wasn't part of the best consecutive 6 groups.

Best consecutive 6 groups measured CTC:

.216"
.184"
.309"
.153"
.278"
.216"

Average: .226", .433 MOA

Bergara B14R
50 yards, indoors
Bipod & rear bag
SK Pistol Match Special

2nd target has the .091" group just for bragging rights

 

[Tomiboy]

That Bergara really shoots!

 

[jbell]

Jhr1986, damn good shooting. I have you on the results.

 

[jhr1986]

Jhr1986, damn good shooting. I have you on the results.

Thank you, this new lot of ammo certainly looks like a winner. I’m quite pleased to see what this rifle is capable of with the right load.

 

[djromma]

Went to the range this morning as I had to zero my Anschutz 22LR with a spare Bushnell 5-15x40 Tac Optics as the Elite 4200 6-24x40 I had on it was too finicky with eye relief I was finding. Plus the mildots are handy when smashing bunnys. I zeroed at 25m, and confirmed dope in applied ballistics at 50m and 100m.

I also decided to shoot the 6x5 for some practice. I dare say I need it and Im also going to shortern my stock by 1/2in this afternoon as its just a tad to long to be 100% comfy when prone off the pack.

View attachment 7550748
View attachment 7550747

Cheers guys.

Apologies for the dumb question, new to the forum and community, where to find this target to print out? pdf preferably, thanks.

 

[Quickoz]

View attachment 6883227

Here is the Target for the guys asking. Page 2 of this thread.

 

[djromma]

Here is the Target for the guys asking. Page 2 of this thread.

thanks! will try to upload something after the next range visit.

 

[jbell]

thanks! will try to upload something after the next range visit.

Feel free to shoot whatever target you prefer. Just know they the shoot and see targets are really hard to measure.

 

[jbell]

On the subject of measuring, which is a point of contention around here. The are those who say that the targets submitted both here on the 6X5 and other places on the interwebs are not even close to what they think they should measure. Some of the times I agree, I have seen targets that there is no way the group is the size it's reported to be. But as far as I'm concerned in regards to this thread just do the best you can, be honest, and all comers are welcome!! If you have questions just ask, learning / teaching / open discussion / and motivation to improve is the point of this thread. If you disagree with someone's target bring it up, but don't be a dick! There is no money on the table here so it's not that big of a deal...

 

[djromma]

Feel free to shoot whatever target you prefer. Just know they the shoot and see targets are really hard to measure.

Yeah, I know that, I had an opportunity to run a local competition 3X5. yes, measuring is a bit complicated. The first time I used range buddy to measure all the targets then tried to measure using http://taran.ptosis.ch/ I will do my best. so far had no more than 3 qualified targets per sheet. but the rifle performs very well.

 

[Quickoz]

I used Vernier's zeroed in a .22LR loaded round and then check multiple angles to get the largest measurement for the group.

Jbell, is there a standard method you think we should use for uniformity across the board for this?

I shot 3x 6x5 targets today. I just couldn't get consistent behind my rifle for some reason, would drill 3 or 4 and then a big flyer. My trigger is really pissing me off. I'm heading to a smallbore trigger guy tomorrow to get it looked at. I've also just ordered a 5098 two stage for my Match 64. I'm sick of my 5094. Its shocking. Haha.

 

[jbell]

No, I'm not going to dictate a method for measuring as I want this to be an inclusive thread and if I say you have to do X to measure then it may turn some people away.

However my method is: calipers and measure the extreme outer points leaving a crack of paper between the blade on my calipers and the black ring around the hole. Then subtract 0.222"

But that's just me

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

For what it's worth, I also use a caliper, and find the widest holes, or widest part of a group of holes, and measure from the outer edge of the dark ring on one side to the outer edge of the dark ring on the other side. That's the Edge to Edge measurement for a group. Then, subtract 0.222, to get the Center to Center measurement for a group. I only carry the measurement out to three decimals on all measurements. jbell is correct that there are a lot of opinions about how to measure, but I can recommend his approach if you don't already have a measurement technique.

 

[Quickoz]

Yeah thats the way I've been doing it.

No, I'm not going to dictate a method for measuring as I want this to be an inclusive thread and if I say you have to do X to measure then it may turn some people away.

However my method is: calipers and measure the extreme outer points leaving a crack of paper between the blade on my calipers and the black ring around the hole. Then subtract 0.222"

But that's just me

No dramas mate. I was just wondering if there was an accepted method. Im already doing it the same way as you anyway.

This thread has made me shoot more rounds thru my 22 in a week then the last 3 months combined. I love it. Thanks.

 

[Travelor]

I was "corrected" on the measurement of my 6x5 target groups. I finally found the initiative and time to use my BR tools to measure. I used to shoot CF BR and as part of it I measured by groups with a tool used by the organization. Here is the tool and my corrected group sizes. Smallest group is .1435" Average group sizes is .2305" for an average of .461 moa. These measurements wre made using the actual target not a picture.

 

[jbell]

Travelor I have you updated.

 

[Stu_NY]

Hey guys, new here and just started shooting a year ago. Having fun working on my benchrest technique! Hopefully ok to post todays best 6x5.

No pics of my gun yet, but here are the specs:
Anschutz 1903 in an SBR stock
36X Sightron scope
Harrell tuner (was dialing it in today- third time out with it!)
Lapua CenterX ammo
Conditions were cold! 24 degrees F, wind between 5-10mph. Ground covered in snow.
50 yards

Followed above measuring tips with calipers- edge to edge of furthest black bullet rings on target and then subtract .222"

.283"
.302"
.483"
.221" (smallest)
.355"
.437"

.347" average

Looking forward to warmer days at the range to give it another go! It is really great to have this thread as a beginner to get a sense of my progress. Thanks!

 

[jbell]

Stu_NY, welcome! I have you on the results.

 

[flatland1]

Still learning how to shoot off a one piece rest with a joystick; have a Sightron SIII 45x45 scope on the new V-22S, and it shows every little wiggle, shake & mistake I make while trying to hold still and remove as much human influence as possible from each shot. At any rate, the rifle is an early V-22S action, Shilen ratchet rifled select match in R5 contour that I finished at just under 25", and chambered with a Nevius reamer. Trigger is the Flavio Fare, but since I don't have one of the digital trigger pull gauges, I don't have a scale that will measure how light I've got it set. It's in a McMillan Kestros stock, and the SIII scope is in a set of TPS TSR high rings on a VGW 20 MOA rail. The 1st 6x5 target was shot with a lot of SK Std+ that's 5-6yrs old, and the 2nd target was shot with Lapua Center-X from lot testing at Lapua in Mesa for a Krieger bbl that I chambered for my 1st V-22 repeater - it's about 2yrs old. Std+ was shot in 47*F calm, avg group size - .236"; Center-X in 35*F calm, avg group size - .202". I've got a Pro-X tuner on the Shilen, and haven't yet gotten setting finalized for it. The best groups I've shot with this rifle so far are .096" & .097, so it's fairly obvious to me that I'm the only factor that's holding the rifle back...

 

[jbell]

Very nice shooting Dennis! I think this may be the first V-22S on the 6X5, maybe I am wrong... It is great to have you and I look forward to more!

 

[flatland1]

Thanks Jesse - am looking forward to getting in more shooting with the V-22S before sending it out to Lapua in Mesa, but the huge mass of arctic air that's covered us up is making it impossible to get out to do it. It's -9*F the last time I looked, and windchills are forecast to be -25*F to -35*F for the next couple of days. At this rate, it'll be time to start my early spring farm work when it finally warms up enough to get any shooting in...

 

[Quickoz]

Nice work mate. The V22S looks like its shooting good. All these V22 builds have me considering one to replace my Anschutz 64. But just unsure if it will agg better overall.

I shot another 2x 6x5 today. One with SK Rifle Match and 2nd with Centre X. The groups are mainly wide as this 5094 trigger is just crap. I've ordered a 5098 two stage for it so heres hoping I can shrink that horizontal down a bit. This isnt as good as my first one so no need to change numbers on the results. Hahaha. But here ya go. This rifle does seem to prefer SK Rifle Match based on overall group but vertical the Centre X gets the nod I think (just ignore that horrible 1.158in group) See what happens when I get the new trigger. Have a look anyway guys and girls. Shot off the deck again off my pack. Not the most stable position but I prefer being setup like that. I save the rest and alike for my F-Open rifles.

 

[jbell]

Interesting how they both shot the same average vertical but the SK seems to be more consistent.

 

[jbell]

Thanks Jesse - am looking forward to getting in more shooting with the V-22S before sending it out to Lapua in Mesa, but the huge mass of arctic air that's covered us up is making it impossible to get out to do it. It's -9*F the last time I looked, and windchills are forecast to be -25*F to -35*F for the next couple of days. At this rate, it'll be time to start my early spring farm work when it finally warms up enough to get any shooting in...

I hear ya, it has been pretty cold here the past few weeks...

 

[Quickoz]

Interesting how they both shot the same average vertical but the SK seems to be more consistent.

I agree there. I wasn't expecting it. But that large Centre X group blew the average very out by a large margin. At 25m the Centre X drills it. Certainly tighter then SK. I'm not going to shoot the Centre X again until I have the new trigger. I also changed shooting position today from straight behind rifle to slight angle to test the difference. That could also account for some of my horizontal. I'm going back to straight behind tomorrow morning as its my last day off and the winds and decent before I go back to work for a fortnight. Will see how I go. I hope my next lot of SK RM is as good or better. I shot the last boxes of that ammo today.

I've been scrolling through this thread looking at the average groups from Vudoo's. I'm considering selling this rifle to get a Vudoo barreled action but unsure if I will notice the difference in accuracy. Need to do some more research.

 

[jbell]

Having owned several Anschutz 1907, 1913 (18 series too), plus a few match 64 rifles in addition to several Vudoo’s it is more about functionality and aftermarket options that sets the Vudoo’s apart. The Anschutz just can’t compare in that area. Plus out of all of the Anschutz I have owned I ended up either selling them or installing an aftermarket barrel to get the accuracy where I expect it to be. All of my Vudoo’s have been shooters out of the gate, I really don’t think you will be disappointed.

 

[Quickoz]

I've been thinking that. It was hard enough to find a reasonable stock for this Match 64 let alone track down a new trigger. And the stock is still a Boyds that's been bedded after all aswell. At least I can always find a Rem 700 spec trigger. Sure cant find stuff for Anschutz 64's here in Australia easily, if at all.

I have gone thru the last 4 years of results and Vudoo holds nearly 50% of the top 20 results in both 50 and 100yd averages and best groups. Best part is I already have a HS PST stock spare to throw the Vudoo into which I know works.

 

[Tomiboy]

Very impressive!

 

[flatland1]

Quickoz - I have a tough time thinking you'd ever be disappointed with owning & shooting a V-22. I have three of these repeaters now, plus the V-22S, so guess that pretty well establishes me as a Vudoo fanboy, but I've never regretted the investment. Just a side note on one of the repeaters, the oldest one, first one I barreled myself, using a Krieger sendero blank. After seeing how much difference the Pro-X tuner made while shooting groups with the V-22S, I decided to order in another Pro-X for the Krieger on the oldest repeater. While it shot pretty much as expected with the tuner set at the initial calculated setting at 50yds, the first time I shot it at 100yds, it put four of five shots into .092", with the first shot being out (edge-to-edge) by .235" (see attached photo). That's while being shot off a bipod & rear bag on my slightly shaky portable bench, with the tuner still set at the calculated initial setting, and an older lot# of Center-X. Love these rifles, and appreciate the great customer service from Mike Bush & the crew at Vudoo Gun Works...

 

[Mr. Wolf]

My first 6x5 of the year.
10/22 with Kidd ULW Barrel + TBAC 22 TD suppressor, SK Rifle Match.
82% humidity, 58 F, 3-5 MPH winds from 5 o clock, prone with bipod and rear bag.
6x5 avg = .347” Best = .253” MOA = .662
I think I finally got this rifle sorted (less shoulder tension the better, it shoots better with a suppressor, and likes SK RM best so far)
YMMV, happy shooting

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

I've been thinking that. It was hard enough to find a reasonable stock for this Match 64 let alone track down a new trigger. And the stock is still a Boyds that's been bedded after all aswell. At least I can always find a Rem 700 spec trigger. Sure cant find stuff for Anschutz 64's here in Australia easily, if at all.

I have gone thru the last 4 years of results and Vudoo holds nearly 50% of the top 20 results in both 50 and 100yd averages and best groups. Best part is I already have a HS PST stock spare to throw the Vudoo into which I know works.

Quickoz, I went through a similar journey. Started with a H&R M12, sold that, purchased an Anschutz 1416, sold that, purchased an Anschutz 1903 in a SBR stock, and lastly, sold that to buy a custom benchrest rifle from Killough Shooting Sports. I have a two friends who have V22s rifles, and they love them. They shoot very well out of the box, and with a little tuning, they are ready for matches this year. If I did not already have my 2500X custom rifle, I would buy the new Vudoo. I can guarantee you will shoot better group sizes with the new V22s. Another thing to think about is the customer service you will get from Vudoo. They stand behind their products 150%, and will help you out if you have questions. They don't really have a lot of competition as far as supporting the products they sell. Something you can't really get with Anschutz, in my opinion.

Good luck!

Rimfireshooter99

 

[jbell]

Mr. Wolf, I have you on the results. It is crazy how your 10/22 and 9rCrazy’s 10/22 shot basically the same average and best group! Out of all the years I have been recording this I have yet to see that. Pretty cool...

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Mr. Wolf, I have you on the results. It is crazy how your 10/22 and 9rCrazy’s 10/22 shot basically the same average and best group! Out of all the years I have been recording this I have yet to see that. Pretty cool...

I noticed that as well and I think we both shot SK RM. That Ruger heavy barrel must have some potential but the Kidd ULW is pretty amazing for what it weighs. Thank you for organizing and maintaining this fun diversion.