7.62x54R cheap shooter

[donws2]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I think you will find a heavier bullet groups better. The original load for these were bullet in the 170 to 180 range. I believe all the later Mosins kept the same twist rate so model number really does not matter. Think M1 Garand, has the twist rate as the 1903 and was for the 1906 ball ammo. A 172 grain bullet, the use of a 150 grain bullet was more economic driven than for accuracy. I know of several people that use the SMK 174 in .311 cal with great success. If you want to use a light bullet try the 124 grain .311 bullets. They are at least the correct diameter. Anyway enjoy, I've finished three PU snipers this week and am waiting on a rain free day to zero and see how they do at 700 yards. We'll see how these "Enemy at the gates" rifles do in a day or two.

 

[desola]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

What about the Barnaul 203 gr ammo?

 

[donws2]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

The Russians loaded some 200 grain match ammo so I see no reason the 203 grain ammo should not work. My guess the 200 grain stuff has a higher BC so it has less wind drift at long range.

 

[dannydifalco]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I have a 1944 hex receiver mosin i got for $125 with original sling. oil can, ammo pouches, and bayonet. The gun shoots like a mule. Its a great gun and very reliable!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

OK, let me try this one more time. I'm interested in loads for .308" diameter bullets and IMR-4895.

These look like possibly useful loads:

110gr/49.3gr IMR-4895
125gr/48.2gr IMR-4895
150&155gr/45.4gr IMR-4895

Can anyone confirm this, or suggest better ones using .308 bullets and IMR-4895?

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I got some help with this on another thread. Thanks, those of you who contributed.

New question.

I want to drift the front sight a bit for windage. Shoots to the right, drift to the right. Assuming I bave a conventional bench vise, what else do I need for this and what's the best process to get this done without butchering an otherwise pretty rifle.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Well, that went well...

 

[Joop]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got some help with this on another thread. Thanks, those of you who contributed.

New question.

I want to drift the front sight a bit for windage. Shoots to the right, drift to the right. Assuming I bave a conventional bench vise, what else do I need for this and what's the best process to get this done without butchering an otherwise pretty rifle.

Greg </div></div>

Greg,

I just use a punch and a mallet. Put the barrel in the vise, making sure that the bottom of the front sight base is supported by the vise, so the barrel doesn't roll when you tap it. Most of them aren't too difficult, but you'll run into one on occasion that takes a pretty good swing to break loose.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Thank you. I was thinking along the same lines, with a good soak using a penetrating oil first.

Have been tinkering with the reloading dies.

I disassembled (RCBS collet bullet puller die) 3 boxes of Win 180gr white box ammo, weighed the charges, and reassembled 20 of them using the average charge of 45.6gr of some sort of stick powder (possibly IMR-4064-ish?).

Will be using the other 40 primed cases for 20 test loads of 124gr .310" FMJ bullets from TulAmmo rounds with 49.0gr of IMR-4064 (yeah, I changed my mind about the propellant. IMR-4064 has worked very effectively in my .308 and .30-'06 loads.), and 20 more with HDY .308" 150gr FMJ and 46.0gr of IMR-4064. Will probably need to get inventive about the OAL with the 124's.

This could get to be fun.

Greg

PS, the .310" 124gr TulAmmo FMJ bullets turned out to be .308" 124gr PMC FMJ bullets.

 

[Joop]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Do the Tula bullets have a cannelure? If so, I would seat them just under that. I've done it with Hornady bullets and it works great. If not, just be sure to get them over half way in the neck and they should be fine. Curious to see how the .308s do. It could be hit or miss (no pun intended).

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

No. I'm figuring on more than 1/2 a diameter into the neck.

Good question, the .308's. My Sierra manual list only .308 bullets for their loads developed for an M44. So I figure they must be relatively effective, despite SRA making bullets in several pertinent weights employing a diameter suitible for the .303.

I have some misgivings about handloading manuals. They tend to contract out the load development, and you end up getting loads made from components the consultant prefers.

For example, the .260 article in the latest SRA manual make no effort to employ H-4350, which is likely the most effective and popular propellant used for that chambering.

Greg

 

[longguntoter]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskapopo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Several friends and I just got some Mosens. I was the unlucky one. While the others that have been shot so far group ok meaning 5 inches or so at 100 yards. Mine is minute of pizza box at 50 yards. Oh well at least it looks nice.

</div></div>I have two M91/30's, and you really need to make sure that the bore is in good shape before walking out the door with one. I always take a cleaning rod/patches, and a bore light before picking one out.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I like mine enough to actually consider asking my dealer to repeat the purchase. I suspect I can feel something coming on similar to the 'SKS Fever' I weathered back in the mid-90's. My Granddaughter could probably put one to good use.

The crappo-magic anchovy can ammo shot better than I expected. I think I can now see how a proletariat conscript army managed to drive the Hun all the way back to Berlin.

I am trying out an accurizing trick I read about somewhere; wrapping the barrel with leather inside the stock/handguard at the two points where the barrel bands are located. Only I'm using two plies of Foamies 2mm closed cell neoprene foam instead.

Might do something useful...

If so, I might also look into bedding the receiver.

Greg

 

[longguntoter]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like mine enough to actually consider asking my dealer to repeat the purchase. I suspect I can feel something coming on similar to the 'SKS Fever' I weathered back in the mid-90's. My Granddaughter could probably put one to good use.

The crappo-magic anchovy can ammo shot better than I expected. I think I can now see how a proletariat conscript army managed to drive the Hun all the way back to Berlin.

I am trying out an accurizing trick I read about somewhere; wrapping the barrel with leather inside the stock/handguard at the two points where the barrel bands are located. Only I'm using two plies of Foamies 2mm neoprene foam instead.

Might do something useful...

If so, I might also look into bedding the receiver.

Greg </div></div>Hope it works out for you. Both of mine will hold about 2.5-3.0" at 100 yards, off the bench. I either use Brown/Silver Bear 174 grain ball, or the Sellier & Ballot 180 grain soft points. Ever since I had a case rupture with MilSurp ammo, I don't use the stuff.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Anybody tried the PPU 182gr Match in the 91/30? If so, how good?

What were the consequences of the case rupture?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Sheesh, here we go again...

 

[0002s]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I shoot .308 SMK 190 gr w/4064 and have great success at 600 yds. (minute of man) I've popped a few off at 1000 yds and can keep a 4x4 ft group. It's more than capable of shooting accurately at that distance, just the sights are not really good for my eyes at that distance. (I should add that I have a better trigger installed which really makes all the difference in accuracy with the 91/30)

-jm2c

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Much thanks. After considering/comparing IMR-4895 and IMR-4064 in the .308 and .30-'06, I like IMR-4064 better. I figure the 7.62x54 rides somewhere in between the two.

IMHO, all that dithering about propellants for the USGI Sniper/Match rounds should have been resolved in favor of it. Run the 175SMK and 42.2gr of IMR-4064 and be done with it. Good for the M-14, and good for most sniper bolt gun barrels, too. No powder is ever gonna run consistent across the board under varying enviromental temps anyway. A prefessional sniper who isn't shooting frequently under local conditions isn't plying their trade adequately, anyway. You are what/how you shot yesterday, no more to it.

For some reason, I seem to find that my marksmanship is less dependent on trigger quality. As long as I'm not pulling down hard on a truck spring, I seem to do OK.

Greg

 

[Thunderin300]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I just traded for a M38. Bore is super minty/shiney and metal is in good condition. The stock was beat to hell, so its gettin stripped down for a refinish. The trigger pull is quite nice. I was gonna get the bolt handle bent, but think I will leave it un molested as all the numbers on the rifle match. I think I am going to fire only new non corrosive stuff in this ala Greg as the bore is sooo nice, and buy a tin or two of surplus for just in case. Will hopefuly get it refinished and up and runniing for a trip up to my buddy's cabin over Labor Day weekend.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I just reboxed all the sardine can stuff in a USGI ammo can, and it's going up onto the top shelf for 'SHTF-only'.

I know I shouldn't be making so much emotional investment in a mid-war arsenal rack 91/30, but hey; it's a really neato bare-bones, git 'er done firearm.

I wouldn't be at all uncomfortable being quoted as saying that every young American boy should own one.

It'd still be a bargain at twice the price. Just don't quote me to the importers; that sort of talk is just what buggered up the bargain SKS market.

Greg

 

[Thunderin300]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I couldn't agree more Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Bingo, give that gentleman a cigar...!

 

[Thunderin300]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I'll take that cigar, its been a while since I've had a good one. LOL

 

[longguntoter]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody tried the PPU 182gr Match in the 91/30? If so, how good?

What were the consequences of the case rupture? </div></div>Just got some minor burn marks on my face, but the gun was fine. When I went to work the bolt to get the round out, I did it slowly so that I would not rip the base off the casing. It was a crack about 1/2 the way around the base where it flanges out to the rim. That ammo was some Copper washed stuff I had and just threw the other forty or so rounds out.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Assuming it was Great Patriotic War fodder. Just trying to assess the potential far harm to my Granddaughter, were I to get her a 91/30 of her own. Very glad to know there was no lasting injury.

Since I have a collet bullet puller and a Dillon shellplate for the chambering, I could at least attempt a salvage of the bullets. The more I think about it, that's probably the best thing to do right from the start. The empty primed cases could go in a campfire for July 4.

Thanks for the response.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Pulled 20 rounds with collet bullet puller die. The bullets are copper jacketed, lead core 150gr .311" FMJBT, and about 1/4" longer than a Hornady 150gr FMJBT W/C, most of the add'l length is in the boattail. Longish stick powder charges vary from 48.1-48.9gr, cases appear very clean and untarnished inside and out. The ammo surprises me a bit with the clean cases and longer, almost VLD-ish bullets.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Pulled total of 100rd. Load averages out to 48.5 gr. All components have the appearance of spanking newness.

This seems an opportunity to play with free components.

Planning to reassemble some of the 100 with metered charges of 48.5gr, and a few with increments above and below. Previously fired primers do not appear to exhibit overpressure.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Put 50rd back together using 48.5gr charge. Outwardly, no difference from original appearance. Will try some later this week; and do a comparison with unaltered ammo.

Reviewing Sierra load data, the original powder appears to have performance/charge weight chacteristics of something similar to IMR-4320 or maybe a bit slower. The kernels are cylindrical, and on the longish side. Previous shooting suggests it burns rather dirty.

May try some of the remaining cases and bullets with ballpark estimated loads of IMR-4895, -4064, H-4350.

Greg

 

[roggom]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Greg, I played with 54r ammo a few years ago and found that some of the lightball ammo (147gr) powder to burn close to H4895. Also if you happen to have some .311 180 gr sp over 53.5 (or so) of H4350, will make a nice hunting round. Sometimes it takes longer to find a sweetspot with these MN's because their bore sizes vary from .312 to .315 in the 91/30.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Thanks, I'll keep the narrative running...

 

[rojkoh]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

You'll find that the Finish M39's will shoot 1MOA with the Sierra .311 Match Kings. We just were testing some ammo in a new one. Still has some of the cosmoline on it. Has the issue scope to.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Alas; my Summer shooting schedule keeps getting overwritten by myriad Honey-Do's and assorted social events and/or medical appointments. Celia is in the midst of getting her cataracts operated upon. When I get to matches, I'm coaching Grandkids instead of doing any shooting of my own.

This actually all good news, it's just not helping me get any further along with the 91/30 project.

Depending on how the Grandkids interests and skills develop, I'm tentatively planning on acquiring another two 91/30's, as similar to the first as possible, sometime early on, net year. They'll be for the 'kiddos, so we can do our own 91/30 match exercises.

Greg

 

[jakerz3]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I much appreciate the additional info. My pref would be for the 91/30 vs the M44, and an M39 Finn would not displease me either.

Nice trick with lowering the slider; sounds neato, and is just my speed.

Greg</div></div>

I would have to go with the M39 myself. it will not displease.

 

[Devious6]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Be careful, these do get addictive. My M39 is on the rack next to this one.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Well one of those intervening obligations dematerialized yesterday, and I was able to get a decent day on the range. This included firing several loads on Shoot 'n See targets from the 91/30 at 50yd. The trigger was nicer than I had expected. The tests involved wrapping the barrel underneath the two stock bands. From what I recalled (not really, totally clearly) from the first shooting session, the groups seem to have tightened up significantly.

Damned if the Spamcan Light Ball didn't shoot best of all, and by a significant margin.

The same components with the equalized average charge strung out vertical, the handloads with HDY 150gr FMJBT and pulled Tulammo 124gr FMJBT showed 1" or more of spread, and the 180gr Win (White Box) Metric Target was similar.

The unaltered 1943 Ishevsk Spamcan Light Ball printed tight and round at 50yd, roughly 1/2", and centered in a 6" Shoot 'n See. Honestly, it's a headscratcher, but I'm taking the results at face value.

The rifle cleaned right up using T/C muzzleloader bore foam. Ugly patches, but it came clean with 3 soaks.

Then, as I was unloading the Grand Caravan in the driveway, I glanced over and noticed that a downspout angle had separated and a recent heavy rain has cut a hole alongside my foundation that probably reaches into my basement.

Looks like some of the fieldstone foundation stones have separated, too. The heat worked OK this AM and we have hot water, so if there's been flooding, it hasn't reached too high.

This will be my first priority for the forseeable near future. No rain forecast today, so work will begin tomorrow.

Greg

 

[Devious6]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Greg,

I'm loading for my 91/30 sniper using the 174 gn .311 Sierra Match King. It seems like a good round for my competition rifle and I've had solid results out to 600 yards - haven't had a chance to go beyond that yet.

I can't help on the powder load data - I'm using Varget. If you opt to try that powder, a 43.5 gn load seems to be very accurate to 600 yards - and other prople have had similar good results beyond that range. It seems to be a good balance between accuracy and velicity...and even saves a bit on the shoulder.

Om the range where I shot the competition, they don't allow steel core bullets so reloading was a necessity to compete.

Keep the thread going. I'm interested in hearing your results!!

Mark

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Some research indicates my equalized average charge was wrong. 7.62x54R.net indicates the charge as 49.1gr of the original powder. My calculated average charge was 48.5. Will try the 49.1.

Also, some research/skullwork suggests as possible equivalent charge using IMR-4064.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Well, Dayum...

OK, now I know what I'm getting my Grandkids for Christmas...

We'll be holding our own little Vintage Military Bolt Rifle comps.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Took the 91/30 out to play today. Brought along a longtime pal (from my unit in 'Nam) who's having major vision trouble. He has to get an intravitreal injection (into the vitreous humour of the eye), each eye, once each month, $7K per shot. Sometimes it's my turn to drive him to Rochester for the treatment.

Well, we propped up the 91/30 on a bench, rest, and bag for him at about 40yd and coached him onto the target. Once he was able to work out the sight picture he began hammering them into about a 1" group. We had a howlin' great time. I left him at home with 100rd for his M44, some stripper clips, and a Limbsaver Slip-On pad for his rifle.

The reloaded 148gr steelcase surplus load of 49.1gr of the ComBloc powder is very accurate for a service rifle and load. Substituting 49.0gr of iMR-4064 is one clean bullet width hole (two bullets' height) at 50yd; I didn't honestly believe I could hold that small with iron sights.

The Prvi Boxer/Brass 150gr softpoint is deadly accurate for a deer load. I may aim to take one of my deer with it this year, if the right opportunity materializes.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I'm picking up my Mossberg MVP Varmint today, and will also be looking for .311 150gr bullets, to see if the 49.0gr IMR-4064 load holds up using the Prvi and Win Boxer brass.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Brought the MVP home, it's a Predator Sporter, not the Varmint, but i think I'm going to like it anyway.

I also picked up a box of HDY 150gr FB Softpoint .303's to try with the 49.0gr IMR-4064 load in Prvi/Winchester boxer brass. Will see how that works out.

Finished off the MVP Predator mounting a Tasco 6-24x42 Varmint/Target MilDot scope, which is pretty much my standard scope these days. The rifle came with a 10rd aluminum AR type mag, and I added a pair of aluminum 5rd AR Mags.

Greg

 

[longguntoter]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Had both of my M91/30's out today, shooting 174 grain FMJ @ just 100 yards, and best I could hold was about 2.25" groups. I suppose that's about normal for those old gals.

 

[Devious6]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longguntoter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had both of my M91/30's out today, shooting 174 grain FMJ @ just 100 yards, and best I could hold was about 2.25" groups. I suppose that's about normal for those old gals.

</div></div>

I've seen lots of tight groups from these old war horses including sub- 1 MOA groups. There are a lot of variations and ammo is one of them. Some rifles love one type and vomit another. I would try some different manufacture and weights. There is also a big variation in the bore sizes on these rifles - I've seen everything from .311 to .315. And, a lot depends on the condition of the bore on your rifle.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longguntoter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had both of my M91/30's out today, shooting 174 grain FMJ @ just 100 yards, and best I could hold was about 2.25" groups. I suppose that's about normal for those old gals.

</div></div>

SMK? Try 43.5 of Varget under it...

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Just assembled 25 Win/Prvi once-fired cases with CCI-200's, HDY 303 caliber 150gr Interlock SP's, and 49.0gr of IMR-4064. Will test fire them after Sandy departs the area. If pressure signs and accuracy are acceptable, will consider them as a Hunting/Multipurpose load.

Seriously considering trying for a deer this year with the 91/30. It's a looong gun, but it's actually shorter than my traditional 33" barreled sidelock percussion .50cal muzzle loader. Same proportions, same basic sights principle. But, there are (at least) 4 more shots in the magazine

Greg

 

[longguntoter]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just assembled 25 Win/Prvi once-fired cases with CCI-200's, HDY 303 caliber 150gr Interlock SP's, and 49.0gr of IMR-4064. Will test fire them after Sandy departs the area. If pressure signs and accuracy are acceptable, will consider them as a Hunting/Multipurpose load.

Seriously considering trying for a deer this year with the 91/30. It's a looong gun, but it's actually shorter than my traditional 33" barreled sidelock percussion .50cal muzzle loader. Same proportions, same basic sights principle. But, there are (at least) 4 more shots in the magazine

Greg </div></div>Well, its certainly capable of downing a deer. Funny how hunters of old used equipment that was very basic, in a time when you could not run to the store to pick up some burgers for the grill. I guess that's what made them good at shooting and field craft huh?

 

[Unknown]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I had one of the Finnish Mosins that was superbly accurate. With that Czech silver tip ammo, it would shoot right along side my national match Garand. I later learned that the Finns had very tight accuracy requirements for the 39's before they would be accepted. Some made by Sako, Tikka and other high quality Finnish firearms factories.

It is one of the rifles I sold that I wish I had kept...and there are very few of those. That rifle was as ugly as it was accurate...and it was very accurate.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Returning to this topic (and my first post under the new board format)l I offer the latest observations.

There is an affliction called 'Mosinitis", and I've got it good. Just picked up a pair of Izshevsk 1934 91/30's for the Grandkiddos. I may be looking for another two if I think I can get them past Celia with only a tolerable degree of flack.

Awaiting momentary delivery of an AIM <Su**lus> Sport scope kit containing a 2-7x42 30mm tube LER scope, Scout base, and 30mm rings specifically configured for the M-N; primarily to permit more precise sight adjustment and sight picture resolution.

Meanwhile we are in the teeth of Winter, and range sessions are still at least weeks away.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

OK, AIM Sports Optics kit has arrived, and it's the kind of mount that replaces the sight leaf. Not my first preference , but the real issue is even more basic; the sight leaf retaining pin won't budge. I have it soaking from yesterday afternoon with Hoppe's oil and #9 solvent. Will re-attack it with light hammer and drift punch later today. Perhaps the gods will nod in my direction.

The scope is a non-illuminated 30mm tube model with supposedly 1/4MOA clicks using coin slots, 42mm objective, and a kinda hokey 'range finding' reticle that kind looks like the funnel shaped one they had on the 3.5" rocket launcher (bazooka) we trained with in the Corps back in 1966. The rings are kinda tall, with 'see-thru' openings beneath the scope cradles, and the base is about 10-11" long with a Weaver configured rail. Definitely not a Loopie setup, but for $100 and some coins from Amazon (including shipping), I'm gonna go short on choosey.

Wish me luck.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

No nods yet. Escalated up to PB Blaster yesterday. I tap, I spray, I whack, I spray, I wait...

Dayum; that's one tenacious pin...!

Greg