700 5-R or Bergara for a .300WM build?

[Montega]

I've been trying to put this together for some time and pretty much had my heart set on using a first gen 700 5-R with 26" barrel, swapping the stock for a KRG Bravo + goodies. BUT things are not always so simple, and the Bergara HMR seems to have a lot of what I want out of the box (26" barrel, DBM, adjustable stock, threaded barrel).

As someone who hasn't been around long-range shooting too long, I'd like to pose this to the experts here at the hide. Which barrel is likely to be more accurate, and which option would you guys choose?

 

[SonicBurlap]

Having shot both in .300WM I'd go with the Bergara, my experience has been that my groups were on average .5 to .7 MOA tighter at 100 yards than with the Remington.

 

[300ATT]

Bergara

 

[wade2big]

Having shot both in .300WM I'd go with the Bergara, my experience has been that my groups were on average .5 to .7 MOA tighter at 100 yards than with the Remington.

Wow. That means you were shooting zero moa groups. Fascinating.

 

[Friday]

Bergara unless you intend to put a custom barrel on the Remington. Out of box barrels from Remington are marginal at best

 

[wade2big]

Bergara unless you intend to put a custom barrel on the Remington. Out of box barrels from Remington are marginal at best

Regurgitated internet talk.
Absolutely not true with the 5r rifles. Mine shoot as good with factory ammo as what a lot of guys post with their aftermarket barreled rilfes.

Im not saying Bergaras dont shoot because what i have seen on here they absolutely do as do the Remington 5R rifles. Either would serve him well.

 

[Friday]

My 5r was marginal at best nothing compared to my brother in laws bergara B14

 

[cornhusker86]

I have two of the gen 1 5R's. A 308 and a 300. BOTH are very accurate. I did however replace the triggers and bed them. Your mileage may vary.

 

[wade2big]

My 5r was marginal at best nothing compared to my brother in laws bergara B14

A marginal shooting 5R is the exception and not the rule. The reason I am saying this is thtough my experience over multiple Remington 700 5R rifles. You can google fu all you want and will have a tough time finding threads or reviews with 5R rifles not shooting. Your post would be the only one to pop up LOL. Do the same google fu searching Bergara rifles and you will find plenty of non-shooting rifles. I still would wager that most Bergara rifles do shoot well.

 

[Friday]

Lol so your saying if I google a Remington not shooting mine would be the only one to pop up? I would love to take that bet haha remington and quality do not belong in the same sentence, having said that 90% of my rifles are remington 700 because I do like the action. Bergara is a far more quality product. As with anything no matter the company there are going to be non shooting products on the market. Trust me I’m not the only person in the world that thinks remington quality is not up to par. Marginal at best.

 

[lennyo3034]

My .300 WM 5r shot like such shit and had so much wrong with it, my smith told me it would just be cheaper to buy a custom and bring it to him instead of paying him to fix all that was wrong with it.

 

[wade2big]

Lol so your saying if I google a Remington not shooting mine would be the only one to pop up? I would love to take that bet haha remington and quality do not belong in the same sentence, having said that 90% of my rifles are remington 700 because I do like the action. Bergara is a far more quality product. As with anything no matter the company there are going to be non shooting products on the market. Trust me I’m not the only person in the world that thinks remington quality is not up to par. Marginal at best.

I was joking about your post popping up. This conversation is also referencing Remington 700 5R rifles specifically. These are fantastic rifles. Lets comprehend everything we read. It helps keep everything flowing. And I do not doubt for one second your bad experience. It happens across all lines. I see more problems posted with all these custom actions popping up than anything else lately.

 

[Friday]

Well I’m glad you had luck with yours because mine was not that great, like I said I love buying Remington 700 rifles because I love building off the action I just feel even there 5r barrel could use a lot more work to be competitive with other guns on the market.

 

[Velocity Chad]

I had a 5r that shot great if you are happy with 1.25-1.5 moa. After my last couple remington experiences, I'd take a savage, or pretty much anything else over remington. Bergara makes a nice rifle from what I have seen, but never owned one.

 

[AZgeek]

I own an older Gen 1 R5 Milspec in 308 circa 2005. Super accurate and still after 5K+ rounds, is capable of .5 MOA. Given the hit or miss Remington quality issues documented over say the last 10 years, I would give the Bergara at try. Too much of a gamble with the Remington IMHO. As previously mentioned, the stocks on some of the Bergara models are really nice!

 

[Montega]

Thanks for all the great replies. Seems about 50/50, which is pretty much where I am

Does anyone know which barrel has the heavier contour? It's tough to get accurate information on the exact barrel dimensions, but it looks like the 5-R has a Varmint profile, which is a little heavier than the Bergara. How much of a difference that would make I don't know.

Another question which might put me on one side of the fence or the other: How is the compatability of the Bergara action compared to the 700 for things like triggers and barrels?

 

[Friday]

Bergara is a Remington 700 footprint

 

[wade2big]

Thanks for all the great replies. Seems about 50/50, which is pretty much where I am

Does anyone know which barrel has the heavier contour? It's tough to get accurate information on the exact barrel dimensions, but it looks like the 5-R has a Varmint profile, which is a little heavier than the Bergara. How much of a difference that would make I don't know.

Another question which might put me on one side of the fence or the other: How is the compatability of the Bergara action compared to the 700 for things like triggers and barrels?

You didn't expect anything differently than 50/50 did you? Triggers, stocks, and scope bases would be the same as Remington 700. Any gunsmith can rebarrel the action for you. Remington 700 prefits wouldn't be an option so a barrel nut setup is out. If you have no intentions of using an off the shelf barrel nut system then either will work for you.

 

[SonicBurlap]

Regurgitated internet talk.
Absolutely not true with the 5r rifles. Mine shoot as good with factory ammo as what a lot of guys post with their aftermarket barreled rilfes.

Im not saying Bergaras dont shoot because what i have seen on here they absolutely do as do the Remington 5R rifles. Either would serve him well.

The Remingtons were close enough for government work, but on my own dime I'd rather have a rifle with an action incorporated bolt release, a smoother action, a safety I can depend upon, and shot groups that are reliably sub MOA, and that comes with a threaded barrel. Maybe you happened to get an exceptional Remy but In over thirty -five years of shooting them, civilian and military before I switched to Bergara, or DIY builds with Shilen barrels Remington never failed to underwhelm me.

 

[Lynn Jr]

On an open forum like this you don't know the capabilities of those posting.
If they get 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards that might actually be all they are capable of shooting regardless if it's a factory gun or a full blown railgun.
The picture is of a decent shooting 700 but I am sure some here could mess up its grouping capability.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

The new Ruger Hawkeye Long Range Target Rifle has been getting good reviews. You may want to consider that one.

 

[SonicBurlap]

I have long given up judging what a rifle's shot groups might be by its looks. I might be able to tell if it has all the right features that can possibly make it more accurate. I know what my capabilities are and I have several rifles that I can shoot shot groups that are from .3 to .7 MOA with, in the service I was not the only shooter behind the trigger of said Remingtons, and none were in love with the brand in my unit and preferred other brands if Uncle Sam was willing to provide them. I am however aware that a skilled gunsmith can turn even what was better used as a tomato stake into a passable shooter. If you don't mind me saying the picture of your rifle doesn't exactly look like it came out of the box as is, plus a picture of the rifle tells me nothing about its, or the attached shooters capabilities in regards to accuracy, precision, technique, or experience.

 

[wade2big]

The Remingtons were close enough for government work, but on my own dime I'd rather have a rifle with an action incorporated bolt release, a smoother action, a safety I can depend upon, and shot groups that are reliably sub MOA, and that comes with a threaded barrel. Maybe you happened to get an exceptional Remy but In over thirty -five years of shooting them, civilian and military before I switched to Bergara, or DIY builds with Shilen barrels Remington never failed to underwhelm me.

Have you any experience with the 5R Remingtons? I own a few. My father owns one, and I have been around others and they all shoot with factory ammo.

 

[SonicBurlap]

Yes I have, shot a few, seen others who are excellent shooters shoot them and get mediocre results, was not impressed. If they work for you I'm glad for you but I will invest my money elsewhere I'm glad we live in a country where we have choice. I love the Remington footprint but as to its action and barrel they come up short, unless more money is invested into having it worked over with a custom job .

 

[Lynn Jr]

I have long given up judging what a rifle's shot groups might be by its looks. I might be able to tell if it has all the right features that can possibly make it more accurate. I know what my capabilities are and I have several rifles that I can shoot shot groups that are from .3 to .7 MOA with, in the service I was not the only shooter behind the trigger of said Remingtons, and none were in love with the brand in my unit and preferred other brands if Uncle Sam was willing to provide them. I am however aware that a skilled gunsmith can turn even what was better used as a tomato stake into a passable shooter. If you don't mind me saying the picture of your rifle doesn't exactly look like it came out of the box as is, plus a picture of the rifle tells me nothing about its, or the attached shooters capabilities in regards to accuracy, precision, technique, or experience.

Exactly my point.
You don't know if any gun can shoot well without trying for yourself and nobody here knows if you can hold 2-3 moa.
The only thing we know is that posters here think the Remington 700 is a tomato stake and that our troops would rather shoot mossbergs howas or savages?

 

[Friday]

Exactly my point.
You don't know if any gun can shoot well without trying for yourself and nobody here knows if you can hold 2-3 moa.
The only thing we know is that posters here think the Remington 700 is a tomato stake and that our troops would rather shoot mossbergs howas or savages?

I don’t think any of us said that our troops would rather use something other than Remington. They will shoot as well they just don’t shoot as well as other guns I’ve shot from the factory, they are not complete shit they just are a marginal barrel in my opinion. They were a far better barrel in the late 90s early 2000s then from somewhere around the early millennium they fell off bad in quality control.

 

[cornhusker86]

I wonder if some people are confusing the 700 long Range with the Mil Spec 5r? I do know the long range model has a bad rep, deserved or not. I'm wondering if quality took a nose dive with the second gen 5r's? Both of mine are gen 1 and are damn good rifles given the price point.

 

[Lynn Jr]

You missed the post by sonicburlap as that is exactly what he posted.

 

[Friday]

I personally don’t think remington was always bad just in the last 15 years or so in my opinion

 

[Friday]

You missed the post by sonicburlap as that is exactly what he posted.

Just saw my apologies

 

[wade2big]

@SonicBurlap,
You are right about people getting a choice in the matter. I even agree that the Bergara Hmr at $850 gives more than the Remington 5R does. The only advantage to the Remington is its stainless which may not matter to some.
I am not even arguing that they are the best option.

The main reason I argue a bit when Remington is brought up is because most of what is said is way overblown. According to the internet (your stuff included), Remington 700s suck. None shoot, blah blah blah. I have too many that prove otherwise.

Tell people you dont like them. Tell people there are better options, And tell them why. But to say if you buy one its garbage is a stretch.

 

[SonicBurlap]

Nor do we know about your abilities beyond posting, or your knowledge about the preferences, or capabilities of our troops , past, or present. You like your rifle above all else, based on your experience, as well you should - I don't ,based on my experience, and I don't have to. I hope you can deal with it, this back and forth is pointless and of no use to the OP .

 

[Lynn Jr]

The Remington actions I just bought are actually better.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Nor do we know about your abilities beyond posting, or your knowledge about the preferences, or capabilities of our troops , past, or present. You like your rifle above all else, based on your experience, as well you should - I don't ,based on my experience, and I don't have to. I hope you can deal with it, this back and forth is pointless and of no use to the OP .

I was using your experience with the troops not mine.
The guys I shoot with know what a Remington can do

 

[wade2big]

The Remington actions I just bought are actually better.

Why are you taking pictures of turds. Thats what it looks like to me!! ?

Ok im done posting in this thread. Now only a spectator

 

[Lynn Jr]

Why are you taking pictures of turds. Thats what it looks like to me!! ?

Ok im done posting in this thread. Now only a spectator

Yeah Remington's are turds that's why I threw in that BAT action so we could all roll our eyes.
OP
You might think about buying a bare receiver like I did with the 3 actions above and adding a bolt and barrel of your choice.

 

[bravesirrobin]

Thanks for all the great replies. Seems about 50/50, which is pretty much where I am

Does anyone know which barrel has the heavier contour? It's tough to get accurate information on the exact barrel dimensions, but it looks like the 5-R has a Varmint profile, which is a little heavier than the Bergara. How much of a difference that would make I don't know.

Another question which might put me on one side of the fence or the other: How is the compatability of the Bergara action compared to the 700 for things like triggers and barrels?

As far as I know, Bergara actions are not compatible with Remage prefit barrels because Bergaras have coned bolt faces.

 

[roamin]

My 300wm 5R Gen2 is averaging 0.6moa accross the last 35 or so 3 round groups I've shot with it all with factory ammo. The 5r shots within a couple tenths of an MOA of my AX and I only notice a difference between the two on the bench and not in practical accuracy.

 

[L2bravo]

Ok, so the Bergara is looking like a contender for my next rifle. If it is rebarrel time, will a smith be able to use a Rem barrel? Or what options do we have?

 

[wade2big]

Ok, so the Bergara is looking like a contender for my next rifle. If it is rebarrel time, will a smith be able to use a Rem barrel? Or what options do we have?

They will turn the barrel to match your action like they do every other. There just wont be prefits on the shelf.

 

[L2bravo]

They will turn the barrel to match your action like they do every other. There just wont be prefits on the shelf.

Is that going to be a more expensive exercise?

 

[wade2big]

Is that going to be a more expensive exercise?

Its what most guys do anyhow. They purchase a barrel blank and either drop off or send away their action and barrel to a gunsmith who the threads and chambers it for your rifle.

About the only thing you lose out on is the ability to run a savage like barrel nut setup. There are companies that have barrels chambered and ready to go for standard Remington threads. This allows for quicker times getting barrels and just a few tools needed to swap them out. This saves the cost of the gunsmiths labor but you will have the costs of the tools needed to get it done and headspaced correctly as an initial investment. Search Savage barrel change or Remage barrel change for more info.

Like I said earlier, most guys use either a local gunsmith or send off to a known smith anyhow. If you like the Bergara action best go for it.

 

[Harman117]

Might as well check out a HOWA 1500 option as well. Brownells has a 24” threaded .300 WM barreled action for $500-ish I believe. Pick out a stock or chassis and there’s another viable option.

 

[Montega]

Thanks. I did take a look at Howa, and also the Ruger Long Range Target mentioned above. Howa doesn't quite make a barrel in .300WM that I want. I like the Ruger, but the downside for me is the compatibility of the M77 action.

I think I'm going to stick to my gut and build off the 700 5-R like I had originally planned. The only bummer is it's not threaded, but that's not too much coin to fix.

I appreciate all the great replies.

 

[Lynn Jr]

You will be extremely happy with 700

 

[JC0352]

Thanks. I did take a look at Howa, and also the Ruger Long Range Target mentioned above. Howa doesn't quite make a barrel in .300WM that I want. I like the Ruger, but the downside for me is the compatibility of the M77 action.

I think I'm going to stick to my gut and build off the 700 5-R like I had originally planned. The only bummer is it's not threaded, but that's not too much coin to fix.

I appreciate all the great replies.

What is the intended purpose of the rifle? I’m wondering why .300wm.

 

[Montega]

Mostly as a range toy and my entry into serious long-range shooting. It's something I've wanted to do for quite some time. I went with .300WM because I want something that can put significant energy downrange.

 

[JC0352]

You can go with something that won’t beat you up as much and will let you focus on the fundamentals better. A 6.5 CM will still smack a steel plate at 1,000yds and it’s a better choice should you decide to start shooting local matches down the road.

I’m not trying to poopoo on your choice. There are easier calibers to shoot that will still reach far.

What distance do you have access to shoot at in your neck of the woods?

 

[Montega]

I hear ya. I just don't have the coin right now for a purpose-built match rifle, so I'm trying to make the best use of what I have to build one that can fill a couple of different roles.

 

[JC0352]

It’s all good man. I just see too many people think they need a win mag or a 338 to reach out far, and end up going to something else because it beats them up and the ammo is so expensive. They do make a 5R in Creedmoor, too.

If you can’t tell I’m a huge fan of 6.5, haha