Rifle Scopes $700 scope comparison

[FuhQ]

It’s getting a lot of street credit here.

Interesting that Zeiss is getting mixed reviews. I grew up thinking they were top-notch. Of course, I grew up hunting with a buckmaster 3x9x40, so by comparison I guess Zeiss was great. Still hunt with that buckmaster sometimes, though. Dropped it out of a tree stand on one of my first hunting trips as a kid. It fell 18 feet, hit a tree root scope-down with a huge rattling bang from a hunting nightmare. It survived with a few dings. Split the wood stock on my rifle completely in two, but the scope just needed to be re-zero’d and it was good to go. Shot all kinds of things with it over the last 20 years, and can still shoot it sub-moa. Guessing the root must have hit right on a ring instead of the scope body, but still…

That scope will go to my kids when I’m old. That’s the goal for whatever I buy. But I do like getting a deal from folks who don’t hang onto things quite so long. May have to go sniff out a used Burris.

Zeiss is top-notch. People are just brand-loyal fanboys (we all are to a degree), but some will recommend their favorite flavor over something they obviously (from their posts) have little-to-no personal experience with. I probably have over 10 Zeiss scopes currently, some for over 20 years. I've never needed a warranty and never had to send one back, or had any issues or defects in them, including a pile of V4's.

You also have to take into strong consideration who is telling you what about a certain scope brand or model. Some folks will subconsciously call it garbage because they're constantly looking through $8,000 Tangent Thetas. And some will call it garbage because it didn't cost $8,000. And some people have personal interests in a certain brand through monetary affiliation. Which is sadly another driving factor with some that might be lurking, but not open about being a dealer or something. There's lots of brand and cost bias in this industry.

 

[chevy_man]

None of the above.

Vx5 or sightron on most of my hunting rifles.
I did put a sig 3-18 tango 6 on one this year, only because it's setup heavy already with a rail and will only be used as a tripod setup. Several places I don't have to get 100 yards from the truck.

After seeing Leupold service 30+ year old scopes I bought my kids 4.5-14 vx3hd as something they could keep using forever.

 

[Cr1775]

Burris customer service is great. No problems whatsoever, even gave me a return label,sent me my scope back not even a week after they received it..
The XTR III is a much better scope than the XTR II. My XTR II 3 15 is great all around for a little over 500 its the best deal out there, my older 4 20 is crap, but the Burris bloggers on the hide say they improved the glass on the newer scopes., don't think they make the 4 20 anymore.
And the XTR III much better glass. I Almost like them more than my MK 5's . but not quite.

 

[Scopeye]

lot of good things said on here about Burris. I’ll add it to the lineup! Nice warranty, anybody have experience with their customer service?

I've had a positive warranty experience with Burris for a USA made brand new Signature scope years ago that immediately failed within the first 3 shots due to recoil and could see the internals loose and rattling inside the scope. They repaired it and sent the same scope back in around 2-3 weeks. I had to pay to ship a literally brand new scope to them with only 3 shots fired though. I never used a Burris on that rifle ever again and switched to Leupold and had zero issues after that. I still bought Burris brand scopes and rings after that until switching to Bushnell but still bought Burris Signature rings and offset inserts to use on my other brands of scopes.

The Burris XTR2s I bought a while back had terrible glass and returned them for refund instead of bothering to send them in for warranty. There had been many reports of poor glass quality back then however I haven't had the urge to buy any recent XTR2s after that which is said to have went through glass improvements.

Last Burris I ordered was their XTR PRO when a dealer had a very cheap sale I couldn't pass up. It's fine but crude and rough around the edges though for a scope with an over $2200 MSRP IMHO compared to my other scopes with similar cost. I expected better quality.

 

[Scopeye]

Th

It’s getting a lot of street credit here.

Interesting that Zeiss is getting mixed reviews. I grew up thinking they were top-notch. Of course, I grew up hunting with a buckmaster 3x9x40, so by comparison I guess Zeiss was great. Still hunt with that buckmaster sometimes, though. Dropped it out of a tree stand on one of my first hunting trips as a kid. It fell 18 feet, hit a tree root scope-down with a huge rattling bang from a hunting nightmare. It survived with a few dings. Split the wood stock on my rifle completely in two, but the scope just needed to be re-zero’d and it was good to go. Shot all kinds of things with it over the last 20 years, and can still shoot it sub-moa. Guessing the root must have hit right on a ring instead of the scope body, but still…

That scope will go to my kids when I’m old. That’s the goal for whatever I buy. But I do like getting a deal from folks who don’t hang onto things quite so long. May have to go sniff out a used Burris.

The other guy that replied to me stated most people on this forum don't even keep their scopes for 5 years so it's apparent why they don't care about their warranty whether it's lifetime or for only 5 years.

If you plan on passing your stuff down to your kids I'd strongly suggest buying only hassle free no BS lifetime warranty products including their electronics. Just a suggestion but you wouldn't be able to care after you are dead anyways.

 

[skytrooper67]

Surprised Leupolds VX3 HD 4.5x14x40mm is a consideration. Under $700. Great warranty. Nobody like loopys anymore?

 

[blue_ridge]

Ive had the Bushnell XRS 4.5-30, Burris XTR3 5.5-30, XTR3 3.3-18, Credo 2.5-15, Vortex Razor LH 2-10 and USO 2.5-20 and for general hunting with some long range opportunities in the mix, I would choose the Credo if weight is a concern and the XTR3 if weight not a big issue. I sold my Bush XRS And USO.

Personally, I think glass clarity is overblown. Maybe it is critical for a sniper, who is using their scope as an observation device for hours on end. But for me, I use binoculars for this. Most of my shots I place the target in the middle, so edge clarity is not as critical.

My priorities in a general purpose/hunting scope are: eyebox/parallax, reticle, ease of operation, turret precision, dependability, low light performance. When I’m shooting at a deer or a steel plate, how sharp the trees are over on the side is not critical.

 

[blue_ridge]

Surprised Leupolds VX3 HD 4.5x14x40mm is a consideration. Under $700. Great warranty. Nobody like loopys anymore?

For me Leupold is what I used 20 years ago. Great glass and warranty. Just not interested in Duplex reticles with MOA turrets except on more vintage rifles. Also their prices are high. Vortex, Burris, Trijicon mo betta.

 

[FuhQ]

You want something you can pass down to your kids… So you should definitely buy a cheap ass shitty Chinesium Athlon just because it has a lifetime warranty…

 

[FuhQ]

Surprised Leupolds VX3 HD 4.5x14x40mm is a consideration. Under $700. Great warranty. Nobody like loopys anymore?

No. There’s much better out there for their price ranges.

 

[UpSideDown]

The only 'pass down to your kids' scope in this discussion so far has been the Burris XTR3. Meopta is a Euro company that just got bought out, who knows what their future is. Athlon is a China corp.... I really would not bank on forever being able to buy/service firearms parts from a Chinese company for a whole host of reasons.

The Burris is a tank with good glass.

 

[Woolsocks]

I like a robust warranty as much as the next guy. Nice to feel you won’t have a surprise expense at some point. With that said, I’m well aware it’s just something you pay for in the purchase price of the scope. It has nothing to do with the quality of the product. There’s an argument for seeking out things with lesser warranties, so you’re just paying for the product. Add 10 percent to the price of a non-warrantied purchase, put that in a bank account, after 10 purchases you are self-warrantied, no customer service interaction needed. It comes down to personal preference.


I’m sure Loopys are great scopes. I just feel like you’re paying a big premium for the ability to re-sell them based on brand recognition and warranty. Re-sale isn’t important to me, so I haven’t put leupold on the list.

 

[blue_ridge]

I like a robust warranty as much as the next guy. Nice to feel you won’t have a surprise expense at some point. With that said, I’m well aware it’s just something you pay for in the purchase price of the scope. It has nothing to do with the quality of the product. There’s an argument for seeking out things with lesser warranties, so you’re just paying for the product. Add 10 percent to the price of a non-warrantied purchase, put that in a bank account, after 10 purchases you are self-warrantied, no customer service interaction needed. It comes down to personal preference.


I’m sure Loopys are great scopes. I just feel like you’re paying a big premium for the ability to re-sell them based on brand recognition and warranty. Re-sale isn’t important to me, so I haven’t put leupold on the list.

I disagree. I‘ve spent the better part of my career in customer service for several different companies. I also am very familiar with all the competing companies in my industry. The companies with the best products are also the ones with the best customer service. When a company invests in customer service, paying for more people, higher salaries, it shows a commitment to 1) supporting their customers 2) receiving feedback on their products. 3) using that real, field use feedback to improve future products.

 

[Woolsocks]

I disagree. I‘ve spent the better part of my career in customer service for several different companies. I also am very familiar with all the competing companies in my industry. The companies with the best products are also the ones with the best customer service. When a company invests in customer service, paying for more people, higher salaries, it shows a commitment to 1) supporting their customers 2) receiving feedback on their products. 3) using that real, field use feedback to improve future products.

I agree - real customer service is part of a heathy business model and speaks well of a company. I’d absolutely have preference for buying from a company that has an attentive and responsive attitude, and owns up to manufacturer’s defects.

lifetime no questions asked warrenties are a form of insurance, though. They take the statistical likelihood of you smashing your scope, the typical cost of repair, and whatever profit they want to make, then tack that cost onto their price. That’s why both poorly made and well-made products sometimes come with robust warranties.

 

[FuhQ]

The only 'pass down to your kids' scope in this discussion so far has been the Burris XTR3. Meopta is a Euro company that just got bought out, who knows what their future is. Athlon is a China corp.... I really would not bank on forever being able to buy/service firearms parts from a Chinese company for a whole host of reasons.

The Burris is a tank with good glass.

The Zeiss V4 will last. And you know Zeiss is going to be around forever.

But I agree the Burris is the only option in here I see from a mostly tactical perspective.

 

[UpSideDown]

The Zeiss V4 will last. And you know Zeiss is going to be around forever.

But I agree the Burris is the only option in here I see from a mostly tactical perspective.

Are any of the V4’s available in a Mil reticle? Or is it all funky MOA reticles? Zeiss will be around but in twenty years the scope market is probably going to be way way more refined, and it’ll be like having a silver polished Simmons fixed 4x you wanted to hand down to your kid but the market is producing feature rich, super ED glass for bargain prices. As far as any scope goes I don’t think they fall into the hand-me-down category anymore. The market is going to change so much for the better that todays good scopes just won’t compete in 15-30 years.

 

[FuhQ]

Are any of the V4’s available in a Mil reticle? Or is it all funky MOA reticles? Zeiss will be around but in twenty years the scope market is probably going to be way way more refined, and it’ll be like having a silver polished Simmons fixed 4x you wanted to hand down to your kid but the market is producing feature rich, super ED glass for bargain prices. As far as any scope goes I don’t think they fall into the hand-me-down category anymore. The market is going to change so much for the better that todays good scopes just won’t compete in 15-30 years.

Not yet, I’ve been trying to get them to for quite a while. I mention it on their social media stuff a lot… So, hopefully someday soon.

Even though it’s not top-tier anymore, the NF NXS can still play the game, and that design has been around since like 1991…

 

[Woolsocks]

Got the Athelon Ares BTR And the Trijicon 10 mile in today. Impressions from looking through pine trees at 150 yards in my back yard.

The Trijicon gathers light well, has a good edge-to edge image and a nice forgiving eye box. The eye relief is great. It feels like a solid scope (can’t explain that one). Unfortunately, the image blurs a bit right at 24x, which is problematic in a second focal plane scope where I must be at full mag to use the holdovers. It’s not a bad scope, but isn’t blowing me away.

The Athelon actually beats out the trijicon for image quality. It’s super-crisp! It does tunnel a bit at hight magnification, but the clarity stays good all the way to 27x. The turrets are more clean than the trijicon, though that’s not a big deal for me. The reticle is quite nice. Unfortunately, it’s just super-finiky. The eye box is impossible to find, changes a lot through magnification, and it totally whites out unless you find the perfect spot. The parallex spot is also super hard to find, like you need a 10 inch lever attached to make the tiny rotations to find just the right spot, and it’s totally unforgiving. Trying to hold your eye in the box while fiddling with the parallelex is like trying to juggle while on a tightrope. Probably not bad for shooting competition. Seems too finicky for hunting, where you’d have to adjust quick and take a shot.

So, neither of these have me excited. The Zeiss and Burris are coming in Tuesday, let’s see how they stack up.

 

[Woolsocks]

Not yet, I’ve been trying to get them to for quite a while. I mention it on their social media stuff a lot… So, hopefully someday soon.

Even though it’s not top-tier anymore, the NF NXS can still play the game, and that design has been around since like 1991…

People must like it. Few demos around, but looks like it goes for MSRP most places.

 

[jmw]

The 6-24 Trijicon at euro must be selling fast. They raised the price 100$ since I looked a couple days ago

 

[Scopeye]

Got the Athelon Ares BTR And the Trijicon 10 mile in today. Impressions from looking through pine trees at 150 yards in my back yard.

The Trijicon gathers light well, has a good edge-to edge image and a nice forgiving eye box. The eye relief is great. It feels like a solid scope (can’t explain that one). Unfortunately, the image blurs a bit right at 24x, which is problematic in a second focal plane scope where I must be at full mag to use the holdovers. It’s not a bad scope, but isn’t blowing me away.

The Athelon actually beats out the trijicon for image quality. It’s super-crisp! It does tunnel a bit at hight magnification, but the clarity stays good all the way to 27x. The turrets are more clean than the trijicon, though that’s not a big deal for me. The reticle is quite nice. Unfortunately, it’s just super-finiky. The eye box is impossible to find, changes a lot through magnification, and it totally whites out unless you find the perfect spot. The parallex spot is also super hard to find, like you need a 10 inch lever attached to make the tiny rotations to find just the right spot, and it’s totally unforgiving. Trying to hold your eye in the box while fiddling with the parallelex is like trying to juggle while on a tightrope. Probably not bad for shooting competition. Seems too finicky for hunting, where you’d have to adjust quick and take a shot.

So, neither of these have me excited. The Zeiss and Burris are coming in Tuesday, let’s see how they stack up.

Back the magnification down for hunting then it gets a lot easier to get behind then it should also be more forgiving regarding parallax adjustment. You only use maximum 27x magnification for spotting your long distance hits and for target shooting not for hunting just back it down to 12x-18x or whatever low magnification you normally use for hunting with.

Glad you got a chance to experience it for yourself and found it to have clearer image quality and better turrets compared to the Trijicon Tenmile. You have till end of January 2023 to return it for a refund after comparing it to whatever else other brands of scopes you have coming. If you end up keeping the Athlon Ares BTR G2 the optional sunshade helps it a lot more than you can possibly imagine. For now, try to wrap a sheet black paper around the front end and tape it on as a temporary sunshade to see how much more forgiving it actually gets. You'll be surprised.

 

[Scopeye]

You want something you can pass down to your kids… So you should definitely buy a cheap ass shitty Chinesium Athlon just because it has a lifetime warranty…

Actually Vortex has the best warranty in the business but I personally don't like the Chinesium Vortex scopes and feel that the Chinesium Athlons with HD glass are far superior to any Chinesium Vortex scopes.

Unfortunately not everyone is filthy rich like yourself and are forced to go and buy Chinesium scopes only when they go on sale with significantly good discounts.

At least Athlons I recommend are reliable with class leading glass and have the same repeatable turrets with stainless steel mechanicals as the Ares ETR. I do not, and will not, ever recommend buying them if they are not on sale. It's really insane to pay $869.99 for them while $565.49 is more than reasonable.

 

[Zolar]

I like my Nikon scope's except for one thing. I got a 4 1/2-14 just for long range target's. Only one problem with it. Has that balistic drop reticile in it aand I hate it. Last one they had in the store and was on sale. So contacted Nikon to see if they would change it for me, nope! I believe Leupold would have changed it. I also have a couple RedfieldLeupold scope's, both 2-7x. Like them really well. But only talking about $150 so probably not ht your looking for. If I wanted a new say 3-9X I'd give the Redfield/leupold a try in a second.

 

[Scopeye]

I like my Nikon scope's except for one thing. I got a 4 1/2-14 just for long range target's. Only one problem with it. Has that balistic drop reticile in it aand I hate it. Last one they had in the store and was on sale. So contacted Nikon to see if they would change it for me, nope! I believe Leupold would have changed it. I also have a couple RedfieldLeupold scope's, both 2-7x. Like them really well. But only talking about $150 so probably not ht your looking for. If I wanted a new say 3-9X I'd give the Redfield/leupold a try in a second.

Nikon is no longer in the scope business. I wouldn't expect them to have any future warranty support on them going forward.

You could sell it on eBay and surely find an idiot who'd probably buy it for more than what you paid then you can just go and buy a Leupold that still honors their lifetime warranty.

DVOR recently had a good sale on some Leupold scopes. Optics Planet might have them on sale as well from time to time with free shipping and free returns within 30 days and get their easy to obtain additional 10% off discount coupon code as well.

 

[FuhQ]

Got the Athelon Ares BTR And the Trijicon 10 mile in today. Impressions from looking through pine trees at 150 yards in my back yard.

The Trijicon gathers light well, has a good edge-to edge image and a nice forgiving eye box. The eye relief is great. It feels like a solid scope (can’t explain that one). Unfortunately, the image blurs a bit right at 24x, which is problematic in a second focal plane scope where I must be at full mag to use the holdovers. It’s not a bad scope, but isn’t blowing me away.

The Athelon actually beats out the trijicon for image quality. It’s super-crisp! It does tunnel a bit at hight magnification, but the clarity stays good all the way to 27x. The turrets are more clean than the trijicon, though that’s not a big deal for me. The reticle is quite nice. Unfortunately, it’s just super-finiky. The eye box is impossible to find, changes a lot through magnification, and it totally whites out unless you find the perfect spot. The parallex spot is also super hard to find, like you need a 10 inch lever attached to make the tiny rotations to find just the right spot, and it’s totally unforgiving. Trying to hold your eye in the box while fiddling with the parallelex is like trying to juggle while on a tightrope. Probably not bad for shooting competition. Seems too finicky for hunting, where you’d have to adjust quick and take a shot.

So, neither of these have me excited. The Zeiss and Burris are coming in Tuesday, let’s see how they stack up.

Which Burris and Zeiss did you end up getting? It's been a hell of a week, and I've lost track at this point.

 

[FuhQ]

Actually Vortex has the best warranty in the business but I personally don't like the Chinesium Vortex scopes and feel that the Chinesium Athlons with HD glass are far superior to any Chinesium Vortex scopes.

Unfortunately not everyone is filthy rich like yourself and are forced to go and buy Chinesium scopes only when they go on sale with significantly good discounts.

At least Athlons I recommend are reliable with class leading glass and have the same repeatable turrets with stainless steel mechanicals as the Ares ETR. I do not, and will not, ever recommend buying them if they are not on sale. It's really insane to pay $869.99 for them while $565.49 is more than reasonable.

I work hard for my money. And I grew up roughing it, and spent most of my life struggling to pay bills and make ends meet. But I've hustled and made a nice career for myself. It's not a matter of how much you have, it's a matter of how much you're willing to invest in your hobbies. For me, this is my main hobby, so I invest a good portion of my money into it. I've also found that lower-quality scopes tend to cause me to have severe eye-fatigue and triggers migraines, and it messes with my astigmatism. So, there's a few legit medical reasons than just me being a glass snob.

 

[FuhQ]

I like my Nikon scope's except for one thing. I got a 4 1/2-14 just for long range target's. Only one problem with it. Has that balistic drop reticile in it aand I hate it. Last one they had in the store and was on sale. So contacted Nikon to see if they would change it for me, nope! I believe Leupold would have changed it. I also have a couple RedfieldLeupold scope's, both 2-7x. Like them really well. But only talking about $150 so probably not ht your looking for. If I wanted a new say 3-9X I'd give the Redfield/leupold a try in a second.

From my experiences, unless you're using it on an AR15 with a specific load that it was setup for...BDC reticles are all but useless. That's why I try to avoid them, and only get scopes with actual MIL or MOA stadia, and not BDC that's pre-set for a specific cartridges/caliber/weapon. Because the odds of your setup being 100% identical to the one it was setup for, is pretty damn slim.

 

[Scopeye]

You want something you can pass down to your kids… So you should definitely buy a cheap ass shitty Chinesium Athlon just because it has a lifetime warranty…

I actually gave Athlon a second chance after first buying a pair of their shitty Argos BTR 6-24x50's as my first impressions weren't positive.

After doing further research and listening to Athlon's customer service recommendation of buying their much better quality Midas HD line and up for better quality glass and turrets and noticing even Rex reviews raved about how perfect and repeatable the Ares ETR tracked with many shooters using their Athlons in competition, the Midas Tac and Ares BTR G2 also share the exact same reliable turrets with perfect tracking and stainless steel mechanicals and I didn't regret buying the Midas Tac 6-24x50 followed by the Ares BTR G2. They're most certainly night and day far superior to the Argos BTR that's for sure and my best guess is they must not be made in that same shitty factory.

I'm also a Burris fan for the most part but the last XTR2s were a major disappointment just like how the Athlon Argos BTR disappointed me in far below average glass quality. I haven't tried to order any of their current ones on sale but several shooting buddies had some of the Philippines made Burris RTs and they sure had a lot of chromatic aberration. Even the new Philippines made Primary Arms GLx's seem to have below average glass. I'd like at least Filipino Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 level of glass as a minimum baseline and go up from there. I got the XTR PRO it's ok great FOV almost Nightforce NX8 glass but level of build quality and controls seems rough around the edges and below average for the price they charge IMHO. I haven't yet tried any of their Filipino XTR3 yet but hope their build quality is better and glass quality is at least comparable to the XTR PRO otherwise the cheaper Meopta Optika 6 and similarly priced Athlon Cronus BTR Gen 2 may be better options at least with much better than average glass and more total elevation travel.

I wouldn't have any use for a Burris without an illuminated reticle either.

 

[Scopeye]

Zeiss is top-notch. People are just brand-loyal fanboys (we all are to a degree), but some will recommend their favorite flavor over something they obviously (from their posts) have little-to-no personal experience with. I probably have over 10 Zeiss scopes currently, some for over 20 years. I've never needed a warranty and never had to send one back, or had any issues or defects in them, including a pile of V4's.

You also have to take into strong consideration who is telling you what about a certain scope brand or model. Some folks will subconsciously call it garbage because they're constantly looking through $8,000 Tangent Thetas. And some will call it garbage because it didn't cost $8,000. And some people have personal interests in a certain brand through monetary affiliation. Which is sadly another driving factor with some that might be lurking, but not open about being a dealer or something. There's lots of brand and cost bias in this industry.

I honestly thought you had some sort of an affiliation with Arken with your previous recommendations. Did you receive "any" free scopes from Arken?

Why did you all of a sudden quit recommending them?

I got no dog in this but my own eyes simply don't like their glass and eye fatigue really sets in when using Arkens including the ones with so called Japanese ED glass.

The good news for other folks who's eyes can actually tolerate looking through Arken scopes for prolonged periods their warranty and customer service is second to only Vortex and they also send a prepaid return shipping label whenever you need to send your Arkens in for warranty.

If people's eyes can tolerate Arken glass, they're an excellent buy at their current 25% off sale with free shipping direct from Arken Optics with a 30 day money back guarantee. I can only recommend their EP5 5-25x56 for $397.49 but not at full price. They're fine when used as a 5-20x scope but going past that, you see they have not so great image quality speaking about the majority of them but there seems to be the rare lottery winners who claim their EP5's are just as clear as their Vortex Razor Gen 2's believe it or not which I simply can't believe after going through 3 different ones and they really do vary in QC and customers are their QC tester employees. In reality, if you get one of their good ones, they're comparable to the more expensive Vortex Strike Eagle and Element Titan and if it's one of their shitty ones, they won't focus as clearly.

 

[NewsShooter]

For the cost I'd go Athlon, I have midas tac, Ares, and Cronus models. All work well and I haven't had an issue with any of them them. I have an Ares 2.5-15 on my air rifle at this point, it's also been on a hunting rifle. I like the reticles and illumination works for FFP in hunting situations. I also have the Burris XTRIII in the 3.3-15 with the SCR reticle for a hunting rifle and the 5.5-30 with the SCR2 reticle. I wouldn't hunt with the scr2 reticle without illumination. Had an XTR II and it was like looking through gauze.

 

[db2000]

I actually gave Athlon a second chance after first buying a pair of their shitty Argos BTR 6-24x50's as my first impressions weren't positive.

After doing further research and listening to Athlon's customer service recommendation of buying their much better quality Midas HD line and up for better quality glass and turrets and noticing even Rex reviews raved about how perfect and repeatable the Ares ETR tracked with many shooters using their Athlons in competition, the Midas Tac and Ares BTR G2 also share the exact same reliable turrets with perfect tracking and stainless steel mechanicals and I didn't regret buying the Midas Tac 6-24x50 followed by the Ares BTR G2. They're most certainly night and day far superior to the Argos BTR that's for sure and my best guess is they must not be made in that same shitty factory.

I'm also a Burris fan for the most part but the last XTR2s were a major disappointment just like how the Athlon Argos BTR disappointed me in far below average glass quality. I haven't tried to order any of their current ones on sale but several shooting buddies had some of the Philippines made Burris RTs and they sure had a lot of chromatic aberration. Even the new Philippines made Primary Arms GLx's seem to have below average glass. I'd like at least Filipino Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 level of glass as a minimum baseline and go up from there. I got the XTR PRO it's ok great FOV almost Nightforce NX8 glass but level of build quality and controls seems rough around the edges and below average for the price they charge IMHO. I haven't yet tried any of their Filipino XTR3 yet but hope their build quality is better and glass quality is at least comparable to the XTR PRO otherwise the cheaper Meopta Optika 6 and similarly priced Athlon Cronus BTR Gen 2 may be better options at least with much better than average glass and more total elevation travel.

I wouldn't have any use for a Burris without an illuminated reticle either.

Can you elaborate on the the build quality, or lack there of on the XTR Pro? I’m surprised to read this. Thanks

 

[UpSideDown]

@Scopeye youre the only person I’ve heard give that kind of review of the XTR Pro. Have you had it checked out? I’ve heard enough comparisons about the regular XTR3 being so close to the NX8 with some things better and some worse, and the Pro should be slight but distinctly better. The Pro has better glass and is US made. What makes it rough? Stiff turrets? Crunchy?

 

[blue_ridge]

Interesting discussion. All three scopes in the original post are made in the same factory in Japan. None of the companies mentioned in the original post is known for particularly good customer support.

I didn't particularly like XRS2. I have never seen a V4 that there wasn't something wrong with. It has been a little while, so perhaps they got more consistent. V6 scopes are also made in Japan. V8 are made in Germany.
If you are looking for a track record of durability, Trijicon's designs have been around for a while, so there is a lot of track record.

In terms of configurations, none of these are what I would use for hunting, but YMMV.

If you are shooting far away, go with FFP. Since it was mentioned above, I will second that Burris XTR3i 3.3-18x50 is an excellent option. One of my favourite hunting scopes recently introduced in Tract Toric 2.5-15x44 for a bit under $1k. Again, this is a configuration I would prefer personally. Even out west where I live, I have a hard time imagining a hunting situation that can not be well served by a 3-15x or similar scope.

With high magnification and FFP, best bang for the buck going is probably Meopta Optika6 5-30x56 that you can pick up at Eurooptic for $700. General disclaimer, I designed the tree reticle for it, so I might be biased. Given that Meopta was recently purchased, I have no insight whether the sporting optics part of the company will persist or not. They are listed in the SHOT 2024 list, so hopefully they will stick around.

ILya

OP mentioned Zeiss V4. I believe I read on your site, maybe BigJimFish, that Zeiss Conquests were made by Meopta. Also Optika6 is basically a 6x variable upgrade of the same Zeiss Conquest spec.

 

[Woolsocks]

OP mentioned Zeiss V4. I believe I read on your site, maybe BigJimFish, that Zeiss Conquests were made by Meopta. Also Optika6 is basically a 6x variable upgrade of the same Zeiss Conquest spec.

Would be interested to see the data behind that.

 

[Woolsocks]

Which Burris and Zeiss did you end up getting?

I got the Burris XTR 3 5.5-30x56 and the Zeiss V4 6-24x56. Should be here Tuesday.

I’m not sure yet about FFP, I’m used to SFP and not searching for the crosshairs at low mag. Illumination might make a difference.

 

[FuhQ]

I honestly thought you had some sort of an affiliation with Arken with your previous recommendations. Did you receive "any" free scopes from Arken?

Why did you all of a sudden quit recommending them?

I got no dog in this but my own eyes simply don't like their glass and eye fatigue really sets in when using Arkens including the ones with so called Japanese ED glass.

The good news for other folks who's eyes can actually tolerate looking through Arken scopes for prolonged periods their warranty and customer service is second to only Vortex and they also send a prepaid return shipping label whenever you need to send your Arkens in for warranty.

If people's eyes can tolerate Arken glass, they're an excellent buy at their current 25% off sale with free shipping direct from Arken Optics with a 30 day money back guarantee. I can only recommend their EP5 5-25x56 for $397.49 but not at full price. They're fine when used as a 5-20x scope but going past that, you see they have not so great image quality speaking about the majority of them but there seems to be the rare lottery winners who claim their EP5's are just as clear as their Vortex Razor Gen 2's believe it or not which I simply can't believe after going through 3 different ones and they really do vary in QC and customers are their QC tester employees. In reality, if you get one of their good ones, they're comparable to the more expensive Vortex Strike Eagle and Element Titan and if it's one of their shitty ones, they won't focus as clearly.

Nope, I am not affiliated with any company in any monetary way, and I never received any free scopes from anyone, including Arken. I bought every scope I own/owned. I've never received a free optic from anyone, ever. Never received a free gun. Never received free rings. Never received anything free, other than 1 suppressor, simply because the owner wanted to gift it to me as a thank you for helping them T&R a new product, after I had bought the first 3 to test. Other than that, I have received nothing free from anyone, ever.

I quit recommending them because the first couple of SH4's were really nice budget scopes... Then when popularity started picking up, and new models came out (EP5) I instantly started seeing QC start to slip and started having to send scopes back, started noticing spring-back in the turrets, and started noticing lots of CA that I wasn't seeing in my early SH4 scopes, even with cheaper Chinese HD glass (they had some of course, but not like the first EP5 and both EPL4's I bought do/did). That's why I stepped away from recommending them to folks, and why I'm selling all of mine, other than maybe 1-2 of the "good" SH4's that I still have. They track reliably and are built like a tank, so they make good target and load development test mules.

As you can see I have no dog in this fight either...Just my personal experiences and lots of wasted money over the years trying to help folks not make the same mistakes. Companies start making great products at first to get their name out there, then once they start blowing up, they stop caring as much, and QC starts slipping, and so does product quality. It happens in every industry. This is why I've flip-flopped on lots of things over the last few years. I started seeing more and more of that happening with brands that were previously making great products.

 

[FuhQ]

OP mentioned Zeiss V4. I believe I read on your site, maybe BigJimFish, that Zeiss Conquests were made by Meopta. Also Optika6 is basically a 6x variable upgrade of the same Zeiss Conquest spec.

No. Zeiss V4 is built in Japan by LOW...Meopta does not build any Zeiss scopes.

The original Conquest series of scopes (10+ years ago) internal parts (erectors, washers, screws, frames, etc...) were all manufactured by Meopta, the glass was made in Germany (obviously to a lower standard than the top-tier, but still VERY good quality), and then all parts shipped to the USA for final assembly. This was what I was told directly by a Zeiss rep years ago. Some of the old Conquest MSRP prices were in the $1500-1,600 price range, like the old 3-12x56 FFP 30mm. I had one of those since 2008, and sold it just last year to a buddy of mine for his wife's rifle). I don't know if the glass was made in Germany, but I guess it could have been B-stock glass they utilized for them, instead of melting it back down? Which would explain the lower cost.

 

[Scopeye]

Nope, I am not affiliated with any company in any monetary way, and I never received any free scopes from anyone, including Arken. I bought every scope I own/owned. I've never received a free optic from anyone, ever. Never received a free gun. Never received free rings. Never received anything free, other than 1 suppressor, simply because the owner wanted to gift it to me as a thank you for helping them T&R a new product, after I had bought the first 3 to test. Other than that, I have received nothing free from anyone, ever.

I quit recommending them because the first couple of SH4's were really nice budget scopes... Then when popularity started picking up, and new models came out (EP5) I instantly started seeing QC start to slip and started having to send scopes back, started noticing spring-back in the turrets, and started noticing lots of CA that I wasn't seeing in my early SH4 scopes, even with cheaper Chinese HD glass (they had some of course, but not like the first EP5 and both EPL4's I bought do/did). That's why I stepped away from recommending them to folks, and why I'm selling all of mine, other than maybe 1-2 of the "good" SH4's that I still have. They track reliably and are built like a tank, so they make good target and load development test mules.

As you can see I have no dog in this fight either...Just my personal experiences and lots of wasted money over the years trying to help folks not make the same mistakes. Companies start making great products at first to get their name out there, then once they start blowing up, they stop caring as much, and QC starts slipping, and so does product quality. It happens in every industry. This is why I've flip-flopped on lots of things over the last few years. I started seeing more and more of that happening with brands that were previously making great products.

I always thought the shitty Arken QC control was always ongoing from the beginning. I do know they are indeed a few Arken lottery winning scopes though. I think their paid sponsored affiliate shills who got free scopes were all hand picked probably 1 out of 20 to 1 out of 50 scopes is my best guess. The rest of us get the bottom of the barrel entering their lottery hoping for the winner.

That SH4 4-16x50 C_DOES did a review on YouTube must have been a hand picked scope sent to him by Arken and it's unlike what most other users experienced in the optical quality and that specific YT review really surprised me in stark contrast to what Social Regressive had posted including a follow-up YT review why he would never again buy another Arken even after testing his replacement scope.

 

[Scopeye]

No. Zeiss V4 is built in Japan by LOW...Meopta does not build any Zeiss scopes.

The original Conquest series of scopes (10+ years ago) internal parts (erectors, washers, screws, frames, etc...) were all manufactured by Meopta, the glass was made in Germany (obviously to a lower standard than the top-tier, but still VERY good quality), and then all parts shipped to the USA for final assembly. This was what I was told directly by a Zeiss rep years ago. Some of the old Conquest MSRP prices were in the $1500-1,600 price range, like the old 3-12x56 FFP 30mm. I had one of those since 2008, and sold it just last year to a buddy of mine for his wife's rifle). I don't know if the glass was made in Germany, but I guess it could have been B-stock glass they utilized for them, instead of melting it back down? Which would explain the lower cost.

I thought Meopta actually made scopes for Zeiss previously.

 

[Scopeye]

@Scopeye youre the only person I’ve heard give that kind of review of the XTR Pro. Have you had it checked out? I’ve heard enough comparisons about the regular XTR3 being so close to the NX8 with some things better and some worse, and the Pro should be slight but distinctly better. The Pro has better glass and is US made. What makes it rough? Stiff turrets? Crunchy?

Stiff parallax and zoom and also not quiet. You know like how some scopes sound and feel like fine dust or sand inside when you twist the knobs.

 

[Scopeye]

I just realized one of your criteria is easy to see reticle for hunting which you just reiterated and I forgot to mention the Meopta Optika 6 4.5-27x50 30mm FFP with illuminated RD MRAD1 easy to see horseshoe in the center of the MRAD1 reticle that Koshkin DLO developed. They're currently on sale for $697 with free shipping at Sportsman's. It's a lot easier to see than the heavier $699.99 Optika 6 34mm FFP 5-30x56 RD MRAD at Scopelist and EuroOptic which does not have that extra center horseshoe reticle.

Glass and image quality is about the same as the the Athlon Ares BTR Gen 2 4.5-27x50 but the Meopta is brighter and superior in low light conditions. Buy the optional 50mm Meopta sunshade and a decent set of flip up lens covers.

I predict you will end up keeping either this Meopta 4.5-27x50 30mm RD MRAD1 or the Athlon Ares BTR G2 4.5-27x50.

 

[blue_ridge]

Look at the review comparison here. Skip to around 12-13 min mark for image comparison.

 

[MK20]

Interesting. I read reviews on here for that scope - that talked about mushy turrets and lower quality image at high magnification. With that said, maybe athelin stepped up their game for the Gen 2?

How about durability?

Athlon scopes are complete dogshit and so is the company as far as fixing their problems.

See my old thread about the 1-10 ETR.

 

[Scopeye]

I got the Burris XTR 3 5.5-30x56 and the Zeiss V4 6-24x56. Should be here Tuesday.

I’m not sure yet about FFP, I’m used to SFP and not searching for the crosshairs at low mag. Illumination might make a difference.

I totally forgot to mention the other Meopta Optika 6 4.5-27x50 30mm FFP illuminated RD MRAD1 with Koshkin's (DLO) unique easy to see center horseshoe reticle perfect to use on low magnification hunting with and has excellent low light performance. Currently on sale for $674.97 with free shipping at Sportsman's. Lifetime warranty including it's electronics.

My guess is you'll end up keeping either this specific Meopta Optika 6 4.5-27x50 MRAD1 or the Athlon Ares BTR G2 4.5-27x50. Either way buy the optional factory sunshade and a decent set of flip up lens covers for whichever one you decide to keep since neither of these scopes come with them.

 

[Scopeye]

Look at the review comparison here. Skip to around 12-13 min mark for image comparison.

THIS is the Meopta Koshkin DLO MRAD1 horseshoe reticle in the Optika 6 4.5-27x50 I just recommend currently on sale for $674.97 at Sportsman's with free shipping.

 

[blue_ridge]

I thought Meopta actually made scopes for Zeiss previously.

https://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2621

“The very popular, though now discontinued, original Zeiss Conquest series of scopes were made by Meopta and continue to live on in Meopta’s lineup as the Meopta Meopro scopes”

 

[Scopeye]

Athlon scopes are complete dogshit and so is the company as far as fixing their problems.

See my old thread about the 1-10 ETR.

I don't recommend buying any scope from Athlon's Ares ETR line at all which are way too overpriced even when they go on sale it's totally insane to buy them even when they go on sale and even through Expert Voice they're still CHINESE MADE when you can buy better quality Japanese made scopes instead when paying that much and even cheaper buying better quality Meopta Optika 6 models on sale.

I only recommend just their Ares BTR G2 4.5-27x50 and Midas BTR G2 4.5-27x50 and Midas Tac 6-24x50 (BUT NOT THEIR OVERPRICED 5-25X56 MIDAS TAC THOUGH) and ONLY when they are on sale at a significant discount, PERIOD...

I got hosed buying my first two shitty Athlon Argos BTR 6-24x50 scopes as well and Athlon wouldn't tahe them back for trade in for better quality scopes even after I offered to pay the difference to upgrade from these extremely terrible glass when I called their warranty customer service to voice my utter dissatisfaction with their below average glass quality for the price they charge and they said it's totally normal for their Argos have such shitty glass and to just buy their higher level models starting from their Midas HD line and up for superior glass.

I ended up buying ANOTHER Bushnell Engage 6-24x50 on sale for $289.99 (Previous ones I paid $450 apiece for same cost for each of their shitty Argos) with free shipping way way way better than the Athlon Argos. This was before I found out about the horror stories regarding Bushnell's extremely shady questionable warranty practices and lack of customer service support.

Bought an Athlon Midas Tac 6-24x50 way way way better than the Bushnell Engage, Bushnell Match Pro and Match Pro ED and Forge and Nitro. Then later bought an Ares BTR G2 wow just wow even better than the Midas Tac so I bought 2 more of them. Then 2 more Midas Tac 6-24x50's recently (yesterday) for $700 for 2 in as new condition with original boxes etc and with extras such as flip up lens covers for both scopes and also bubble levels and even a sunshade for a different scope I could use included so I simply couldn't pass up that fantastic offer. They're better quality than the MPED and Arken EP5 and Vortex Strike Eagle and believe it or not comparable even to some Japan made scopes believe it or not better than the Sightron SIII 6-24x50 and some Tract Optics scopes and comparable to the Element Optics Nexus and better than most of the the older Japan made Bushnell Elites and Tacticals. The first one I bought for $450 on sale at Amazon with free shipping has been totally reliable with absolutely perfect tracking it's unbelievable really and going on over 3 years so far zero issues and I dialed the hell out of that one. The thing is so sharp you would never believe it's made in China. The new Ares BTR G2 is even clearer than this Midas Tac most definitely wouldn't believe it's made in China.

If Athlon really screwed you over then you should seriously go out on a mission to post your negative experience all over the internet wherever possible and file a formal complaint over on the BBB if you want then to improve. That's what the BBB is for. If Athlon still screws you over again even after you file a complaint through the BBB then they really deserve to get their A+ rating lowered. There's oy one complaint that they remedied and jept their A+ so if they're as terrible as you say why no other BBB complaints while with another company such as Bushnell there's a huge difference in Bushnell' Outdoor's BBB F rating with three pages of complaints not including the reviews feedback ratings section.

 

[Scopeye]

https://opticsthoughts.com/?p=2621

“The very popular, though now discontinued, original Zeiss Conquest series of scopes were made by Meopta and continue to live on in Meopta’s lineup as the Meopta Meopro scopes”

Good to know thanks!

 

[NewsShooter]

Athlon scopes are complete dogshit and so is the company as far as fixing their problems.

See my old thread about the 1-10 ETR.

Absolutely not my experience, but I only have 5 of them I've used regularly over the past several years.

 

[MK20]

Absolutely not my experience, but I only have 5 of them I've used regularly over the past several years.

Yeah, and I only got 2 with limited problems out of fucking 8 that they sent me. The others had massive problems. And they kept sending me scopes with glass problems knowing that they had problems by their own admission.

Read this thread to see.

Athlon scope problems

I have 2 Athlon Ares ETR 1-10 scopes and I really like them. Until I turned on the illumination. It looks like this. The general red glare is because my hand is over the front of the scope, but those spots are all over the inside of the scope. What the hell causes this? Athlon says scopes...

www.snipershide.com