75 amax, will they work seated deep?

[gcoulsey]

guys,

my friend has asked me to work up a load for him to shoot in competition this year in his custom ar-15 (single shot.. UK laws..)

hes given me a box of 75grn amax to try, but they are too long for the mag,
when seated with .020" clearance for reliable feeding, the ogive is inside the neck about .030"

i dont shoot .223, and have never encountered this with my calibres, so i have no idea if this is a problem or not??

is it worth trying them? or shall i not bother and just get a box of different bullets instead. (i have half a box of 68grn bthp hornady here also..)

i think he was after the high BC of the 75 amax.. but his maximum range is 500yrds in the competition.. is there really much benefit to such a heavy bullit only out to 500?!!
he does a mixture of the prone/sitting/standing type shooting, at 300-500yrds.

recomendations/advice much apreciated, i have NO experience with .223!!!!

 

[bubbapug1]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

yes, they will work fine. Its tough to crimp them but it can be done

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

Cheers mate, I'll give them a go then,
I've got plenty time to work a load up, I just didn't want to waste powder chasing a pipe dream on these amax's!

 

[wyobill]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

hornady 75 bthp and 68 bthp are designed to be loaded to mag length and the 75 a max is not according to hornady.

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wyobill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hornady 75 bthp and 68 bthp are designed to be loaded to mag length and the 75 a max is not according to hornady. </div></div>

im not holding my breath, i'll fall back onto the 68's if the amax's prove problematic.

 

[biglou13]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

+1 o above post

75 amax at mag length is not good

ok ive loaded them but its a dangerous proposition, ok they did function, no KB,

better left seated long, single shot, and or bolt action

great pill just not mag legnth

 

[jbailey]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

I have had very good results w/ the 75gr and 80gr AMax single loaded in the 223Rem, either with a slight jump or slight jam. They are an excellent ballistic choice for 223Rem and are pretty easy to get going at 2600fps. I was using RL15, but imagine that ball powders like W748 and AA-2520 will do equally good job.

I was getting subMOA groups at 600yds with the 80gr AMax from my 18" AR. I was even shooting 1000yds with the same bullet/rifle. If your wind calls are good, 80gr AMax is decent performer at 1000.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gfunkUK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cheers mate, I'll give them a go then,
I've got plenty time to work a load up, I just didn't want to waste powder chasing a pipe dream on these amax's!</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline">DO NOT load these with the ogive below the neck.</span></span> There's that 'ever once in a while' that you can get extreme rapid detonation of your powder and a huge pressure spike.

That is with any load not just the 75 A-max. There is more bullet down in the case to cause a jam up than the too short contact in the neck can maybe (or maybe not) straighten out.

If you are going to load 75 A-max's, load them out close to the lands and single feed them to the open bolt caused by leaving a standard magazine in. The bolt will lock back each time and you just toss one in on top of the feed tray.

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gfunkUK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cheers mate, I'll give them a go then,
I've got plenty time to work a load up, I just didn't want to waste powder chasing a pipe dream on these amax's!</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline">DO NOT load these with the ogive below the neck.</span></span> There's that 'ever once in a while' that you can get extreme rapid detonation of your powder and a huge pressure spike.

That is with any load not just the 75 A-max. There is more bullet down in the case to cause a jam up than the too short contact in the neck can maybe (or
maybe not) straighten out.

If you are going to load 75 A-max's, load them out close to the lands and single feed them to the open bolt caused by leaving a standard magazine in. The bolt
will lock back each time and you just toss one in on top of the feed tray.</div></div>

When I said the ogive, I Should have said where the straight shank starts to curve to the ogive.. Even so.. I'm NOT going to use these amax, it's not worth the potential aggro/safety issue.

I spoke to him about the possibility of single feeding, but he said it's not an option as some of the shooting disciplines require sprinting 100yrds, dropping prone to fire, sprinting again, kneeling to fire etc etc..
So mag length it is.
I'll start work on this box of 68grn hornady's and see how they run.

Thanks again for the advice chaps

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

Sorry to be dramatic there. I saw you posted a couple days ago and I hoped you hadn't run any of them through his rifle yet. I know the feeling, though. I bought a box of 75 A-max's to run through my carbine...and lo and behold they are too long for the standard AR mag. (just like everyone said) I ended up single feeding them through that and my Savage 12.

If you're lucky there are some bolt gun magazines that will take them. I believe the Rem 700's will. Most of the older ones were just standard length short action. But, then again most older .223's had 1-12" twists and wouldn't stabilize the longer A-max's. If you rebarreled an older Rem 700, that would be just the ticket for a bolt gun.

Anyhow, if your buddy does care to single feed they shoot great in a tight twist AR.

 

[bubbapug1]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

I've shot 500 of them in an AR loaded to mag length. I also crimp them with a rcbd standard seating die. You have to dial it in almost perfectly, and the brass should be the same trim length. I also know a LOT of other shooters using these bullets in AR's with no issues.

I load mine with Ramshot TAC - 23.4 grains, 2.255 OAL, average FPS is 2665 at 3000 foot elevation, 65 F. 24" white Oak SS match barrel. TAC is a very DENSE powder and this load is NOT compressed in the least.

There are a lot of guys on this board who also load these bullets with TAC. Check my post asking about TAC for 223 and 308 loads. The 68 grain HPBT is more problematic as its profile hits the lands, at least in my chamber...at the 2.255 OAL.

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

@sandwarrior, no probs mate, I'll just have to keep them to one side in case I ever go Ack Imp tight twist on my 22-250 lol! I should have done more bullet research before 'buying the best BC' type shopping!!

@bubba.. If it was MY rifle, and I was shooting them, I would probably give them a go, but with the added responsibilty of handing the ammo over for someone else to shoot, I better pass this time!
The 68's hit your lands loaded to 2.255"? That sounds short for lands contact? Or is that typical with ar's ???

I only just picked up my friends ar' last night, so I have still yet to get my measurements from it.

 

[bubbapug1]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

The barrel on the white oak I own doesn't like blunt bullets. I think the lands are too close, but it shoots most ammo well, just not less tapered stuff. Its a very nice barrel, very tight chamber, it just is picking on the profiles. I have a Hornandy tool to measure the OAL which doesn't seem to work too well. I actually load dead rounds and cycle them and look for the marks on the bullets to get the proper seating depth.

All of my other barrels handle everything very well, just the white oak is tempermental and so tight.

I am not disagreeing with sand warrior, I have just had empirical results which indicate the loads are safe. There is no sign of high pressure on the brass either. No flattening of the primers, no loose primer pockets, no bolt face marks on the cartridges, etc.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...975#Post2316975

 

[Grump]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bubbapug1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've shot 500 of them in an AR loaded to mag length. I also crimp them with a rcbd standard seating die. You have to dial it in almost perfectly, and the brass should be the same trim length. I also know a LOT of other shooters using these bullets in AR's with no issues.

I load mine with Ramshot TAC - 23.4 grains, 2.255 OAL, average FPS is 2665 at 3000 foot elevation, 65 F. 24" white Oak SS match barrel. TAC is a very DENSE powder and this load is NOT compressed in the least.

There are a lot of guys on this board who also load these bullets with TAC. Check my post asking about TAC for 223 and 308 loads. The 68 grain HPBT is more problematic as its profile hits the lands, at least in my chamber...at the 2.255 OAL. </div></div>

QuickLOAD says that your load, in my brass (31.56 gr water capacity fired) is quite safe and could do 2800 fps out of a 24-inch barrel. NOT corrected for what TAC really does in my barrel, though. DO NOT rely on this report. Verify everything for yourself.

Any of you skeptics looked at the .030 our friend across the Pond described? I wouldn't carry ammo with that "ring" of open space around in Afghanistan for serious purposes, but for pulling it out of the ammo can and range shooting it a few minutes later, I'd never hesitate. All I would care about would be reliability and accuracy. If they jump well in a particular rifle, I'd happily make them jump.

 

[bama110]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

I tryed to seat them to mag length and they shoot like crap. the 75 shoot great in my 22-250 ai but I loaded them to touch the lands. You will need to go to 77 SMK to shoot in AR.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 75 amax, will they work seated deep?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bubbapug1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The barrel on the white oak I own doesn't like blunt bullets. I think the lands are too close, but it shoots most ammo well, just not less tapered stuff. Its a very nice barrel, very tight chamber, it just is picking on the profiles. I have a Hornandy tool to measure the OAL which doesn't seem to work too well. I actually load dead rounds and cycle them and look for the marks on the bullets to get the proper seating depth.

All of my other barrels handle everything very well, just the white oak is tempermental and so tight.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I am not disagreeing with sand warrior, I have just had empirical results which indicate the loads are safe. There is no sign of high pressure on the brass either. No flattening of the primers, no loose primer pockets, no bolt face marks on the cartridges, etc.</span>

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...975#Post2316975

</div></div>

It's not necessarily the .223 or 'That' load. It's the reloading books stating not to seat the ogive down into the neck. If there is more bullet down in the case than there is neck to guide it up the bore, you may just be okay. I always hear about the 1-10/1-100/1-1000..etc. Well, I don't want to be the 101st or 1001st shooter and have that huge pressure spike. Granted that may be a rule written when we didn't have the QC at our bullet factories like they do today. <span style="text-decoration: underline">I'm just saying it's an old reloading rule.</span>

For that reason I've gone to 68 Hdy, 69 SMK, 70 Ber VLD, 75 hdy BTHP's and 77 SMK/NosCC. You seat the ogive out past the lands.

And FWIW, gunFunkUK, let us know how that next 1-8" twist .22-250 goes. I sure want one of them. I may even will my Savage (pronounced Suh-Vojh {long "o"}) 12 to my brother-in-law in pursuit of one of these mythical beasts.