77, 75, 69 vs 62 gr 5.56 choices?

[Triton225]

Well, I was gonna load 62gr gold dots as a defense round and thier cheaper since I can get 55gr bulk ammo and both shoot poi closely.
But I'm no wondering if some of the 69 75 or 77 gr surplus stuff would be better suited for both uses?
Can anyone chime in on the performance of the higher gr bulk/surplus ammo.
Not sure if this was right forum, but it does regard reloading so...

 

[flyfisher117]

The current hot flavor of the month is the 77 OTMs and SMKs for defensive rounds. Some report the Hornady 75 BTHP does well too.

Personally I have had too many issues running the SMK on Coyotes so I stick to the gold dots or other bonded soft points.

 

[AK264]

IMO The 77s change the nature of the experience with a 15. You know when that steel gets hit much much further. I havnt shot anything but the 77s in a long time but I bought a bunch of nosler custom comps during the Sandy hook scare. I try not to buy during scares but I did. Even then nosler price tag was a lot more reasonable then now. Now were in a continuous scare. Shoot the 77s. 73 eldm if you want something frangible and mag length. Hornady best bang for buck now. You wont want to go back to 62 or 55.

 

[semperfireloading]

Basically, 62-64 grain bonded "type" bullets, such as Nosler Bonded, or Bear Claw, or etc are better through "barriers" and 77 grains are better at "everything" else. But this is the deciding factor to help close the issue.

77 grain OTM Berger's, etc, are literally HALF the group size as any bonded 62-64 grain, which is not a match bullet. HALF is conservative, its probably more like .5-.7 group for 77 match out of good barrel, and for same barrel using Bonded, you will be lucky to get 1.5" consistently, which is good and fine for what it is.

it is undisputed that for taking hogs, big ones, that the Hornady 75 Grain BTHP Match are top tier, and so is 77 Berger OTM. Do not take my word for it, call the largest outfits that you can pay for Hog hunting in Texas, AL, or GA. They are using 75+.

 

[fdkay]

The .223 gold dots are excellent. They do make a 75.

 

[Zolar]

77 has more energy and less wind drift at range (all ranges 100+) than 69, fragments further (OTM especially with TMK being the exception which is essentially identical), produces larger wounds at all ranges, but don't let science of facts get in the way of your opinions!

 

[Haney]

77 has more energy and less wind drift at range (all ranges 100+) than 69, fragments further (OTM especially with TMK being the exception which is essentially identical), produces larger wounds at all ranges, but don't let science of facts get in the way of your opinions!

"but don't let science of facts get in the way of your opinions!"

 

[308pirate]

Go big or go home

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[AK264]

Nice. look at that thick jacket at the bottom to hold it together. You shoot those at mag length?

 

[RTH1800]

All will work. Pick one and stick with it.
I did not see a mention of barrel length. Might have missed it
Expect no expansion from 11.5”
Depending on your circumstances over penetration could be an issue in some AO’s.
Most tend to heavier side.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I would not listen to anyone who says a 77gr SMK is better than a quality bonded bullet the the gold dot or even the 64gr PP. Those are designed to expand and do massive damage, and its what MOST police use. After action reports and autopsy reports show that the bonded and soft points do significantly more damage.

This whole use 77gr cuz the boys downrange use it (Hint, they couldn't use SP ammo and even if they could, their engagement ranges are past what you would have in a self defense situation. Not to mention it was an adapted LR round, not a purpose built, short barrel, short range cartridge.

Look at the what LE swat and patrol rifle guys are using for ammo. You don't need high BC or a massive bullet to shoot inside the practical envelope of a 10-12" carbine.

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[DeathBeforeDismount]

77 has more energy and less wind drift at range (all ranges 100+) than 69, fragments further (OTM especially with TMK being the exception which is essentially identical), produces larger wounds at all ranges, but don't let science of facts get in the way of your opinions!

Oh wow, First of all its not really until you get past about 300 yards that the bullet makes a difference. They will all have similar POI and drift, or atleast it won't matter on a man sized target. Nothing is going to frag at that range out of a 16" or shorter gun anyway.

How many 100, 200 or 300 self defense shots you planning on taking? Good luck explaining that to any DA or Judge.

Any bullet is better than nothing but there are superior rounds to shit like the MK262. If you want to go hard, get some M885A1. Its only about $3/rd.

These tactical timmies and their outdated WOT BS advise need to find a nice pasture to die in.

We have proven, availible self defense rounds designed to be shot our of short barrels at short (self defense ranges) that are devistating on tissue. Zero reason to deviate for self defense.

 

[PappyM3]

All will work. Pick one and stick with it.
I did not see a mention of barrel length. Might have missed it
Expect no expansion from 11.5”
Depending on your circumstances over penetration could be an issue in some AO’s.
Most tend to heavier side.

TMKs will absolutely expand and fragment from an 11.5”, even out to 250 yards.

 

[PappyM3]

I would not listen to anyone who says a 77gr SMK is better than a quality bonded bullet the the gold dot or even the 64gr PP. Those are designed to expand and do massive damage, and its what MOST police use. After action reports and autopsy reports show that the bonded and soft points do significantly more damage.

This whole use 77gr cuz the boys downrange use it (Hint, they couldn't use SP ammo and even if they could, their engagement ranges are past what you would have in a self defense situation. Not to mention it was an adapted LR round, not a purpose built, short barrel, short range cartridge.

Look at the what LE swat and patrol rifle guys are using for ammo. You don't need high BC or a massive bullet to shoot inside the practical envelope of a 10-12" carbine.

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Shopping for the Gold Dot Rifle Personal Protection - Learn more about the latest Gold Dot Rifle Personal Protection and other hunting, shooting or reloading gear at Speer.

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Largely agree, and the terminal effects of 77gr SMK in soft tissue really aren’t anything to write home about. Better than M855, but that’s not saying much.

BUT, a lot of those bonded bullets are chosen by LE because they are more barrier agnostic. A person choosing a self defense rifle load may not care about that. Fragmentation is better at turning temporary stretch into permanent wound cavities than expanding bonded bullets or solids. But, of course most fragmenting bullets aren’t good through things like auto windshield glass, so they’d be terrible for LE.

Also, mil could use soft points. There is nothing prohibiting their procurement and use. The military just chose to go a different path for expanding bullets that maintain mass. They chose the 70gr TSX for a barrier blind option over a bonded bullet.

 

[RTH1800]

TMKs will absolutely expand and fragment from an 11.5”, even out to 250 yards.

Our experiences clearly differ. Glad they expand for you.

 

[Niles Coyote]

I'd stay away from the heavy match bullets if this is meant for defense from bipeds. It's not that they wont work, the GWOT taught us that they work rather well. There are just better options available outside of military service and most soft points will fit that bill well. Take your pick from the ones that group the best... I personally like the 62 grain range and stock up when midsouth has specials in bulk supply.

 

[PappyM3]

Our experiences clearly differ. Glad they expand for you.

What bullets have you had problems with? You are being kind of vague.

I mentioned a specific bullet with an extremely well proven track record. though I know others will still work just fine too. Like the 62gr and 70gr TSXes. There is plenty of testing out there that show at what velocities they will expand to what diameters, and it is rather repeatable. Using the velocities provided by an 11.5” barrel, the TSX bullets should expand to ~0.40” out to 200 yards. Even if you have a high extreme spread on the load, you’d still be looking at 150 yards. Then expansion would drop off considerably. But still, 150-200 yards of expansion out of 11.5” velocities.

 

[RTH1800]

What bullets have you had problems with? You are being kind of vague.

I mentioned a specific bullet with an extremely well proven track record. though I know others will still work just fine too. Like the 62gr and 70gr TSXes. There is plenty of testing out there that show at what velocities they will expand to what diameters, and it is rather repeatable. Using the velocities provided by an 11.5” barrel, the TSX bullets should expand to ~0.40” out to 200 yards. Even if you have a high extreme spread on the load, you’d still be looking at 150 yards. Then expansion would drop off considerably. But still, 150-200 yards of expansion out of 11.5” velocities.

I’m not going to debate you.
I’m glad you get expansion.
Thank you.

 

[PappyM3]

I’m not going to debate you.
I’m glad you get expansion.
Thank you.

Not a debate. What bullet are you having expansion problems with?

Information is good. So please share yours.

 

[Stevo86]

I’ve killed a ton of pigs with 77 smk… shot some big 250- 300lb with them…. 1 shot… DRT. Haven’t tried any bonded bullets. No need. YMMV. These were shot out of a 18” and a 14.5”.

 

[308pirate]

Nice. look at that thick jacket at the bottom to hold it together. You shoot those at mag length?

Never used one but they are designed to be loaded to SAAMI length.

 

[reelserious]

OMG if you can get 62 grain gold dots at a price you are happy with just use those, excellant choice. Just so happens one of my go to 50 caliber ammo cans has 900 of them in them loaded up and ready to roll.

 

[epeet]

62 or 64 grain bonded, ESPECIALLY if you are using a short barrel. If you are using 16" +, then almost anything is going to perform well, if you take barriers out of the mix. You have such great choices, such as the Gold Dot, that there is no reason to even think about "match" anything for defensive use within 50m (likely, within 10m).

 

[sierracharlie338]

I shoot bonded/soft tips out of my ARs and 69smks out of my bolt gun. For “self defense” bonded/soft tips are the way to go.

 

[semperfireloading]

I’ve killed a ton of pigs with 77 smk… shot some big 250- 300lb with them…. 1 shot… DRT. Haven’t tried any bonded bullets. No need. YMMV. These were shot out of a 18” and a 14.5”.

But...but...if you were smart enough to shoot them with 62 or 64 grain BONDED, those pigs would be "MORE dead right there". Why you so dumb bro? LOL

 

[PappyM3]

But...but...if you were smart enough to shoot them with 62 or 64 grain BONDED, those pigs would be "MORE dead right there". Why you so dumb bro? LOL

… but what if those hogs are driving a car, and you need to retain mass through the windshield?!

 

[spife7980]

… but what if those hogs are driving a car, and you need to retain mass through the windshield?!

 

[AK264]

The 75 gr Hornady can be had for .16 per. It has a canelure version that should increase its terminal ballistics. Hornady is best bang for buck in just about anything now. Yeah Bergers are a superior product. Hornady is not terrible. Not terrible at all. Sierra and Nosler are awful proud of their copper and lead now. Im the world most terrible investor. Thats saying somthing because the last two decades all you had to do is pick any market fund. Lead and copper has treated me well however. I have never regretted a investment in lead and copper. Not once, Its a pretty liquid investment also. They say "buy it cheap and stack it deep". Whats cheap? Its just about always cheap over time. Dont go crazy go into debt but if you have a shooting hobby when you got some cash pick up some projectiles. I like how Hornady offers bulk. If I was buying now it would be that 75. Hornady for rifle projectiles Zero for handgun projectiles. Hey life is tough in the hillbilly ghetto.
https://ammoseek.com/reloading/bullets/.224-diameter/Hornady-75grains?ikw=match