7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

[JFComfort]

We've had the 7mm SAUM finished for a little bit now but have been busy shooting matches. We finally got a chance to head out with it and see how it does. We didn't really do a load development. Dane used Quick Load data and fellow Hide member's loads to come up with ours;

180 gr. Berger Hybrid
61 gr. H4831SC
Tula Mag Primer
Virgin Rem 7mm SAUM brass
COAL 3.15"

We started off by zeroing the rifle at 100 yards. We haven't really attempted any groups at 100 yards so we were really happy about how it did. We don't have a LA magazine for it yet. We were single feeding it all day.

After zeroing we went straight back to 1k yards. We needed 22 MOA of elevation and the rifle was shooting sub-MOA. We were beating up a 6" steel popper on the elk's head.

Once we were finished up with 1k yards we headed back to 1,800 yards. By this time the wind was getting tricky. We could see drifts going L to R and some going R to L. Here are some target pictures after the 1st volley. The 7mm needed 59 MOA to connect with targets at 1,800 yards.

After the second volley.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Rifle spec's

Factory Rem 700 long action, mag bolt face
Badger over sized lug
McRee Precision long action chassis
Nightforce 20 MOA base
Kreiger HV 1-8.5" 30"
Nightforce 5.5-22x56mm NP-R1
JP Enterprises/Cooley brake
Elite Iron .308 suppressor

We had some visitors while out there.

View from the targets;

View to the targets;

 

[Donald]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Some nice shooting there those 180 berger hybrids are really working out in your 7mm SAUM what speed are you getting out of your 30 inch barrel?

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

We need to run a 10 shot string through a chronograph but going off the data I have and using JBM we are estimating a velocity of 3050-3100 fps. Small hints of pressure on the brass but nothing out of the ordinary. Dane has some 180 VLD's to try. We can seat them way out because of the aggressive ogive. We chambered the rifle with a +0.002" head space so brass life should be excellent.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Un-suppressed;

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Suppressed;

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[hognuts]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Good shit! Those 1000 yard elk head shots were impressive! I don't think that popper is even 6 inches! Nice shooting gentlemen!

 

[Geronimo]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

That can sounds pretty good, haven't seen alot of comments on them, heard their .50 cans were tanks though.

 

[steve123]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Good shooting guys!

I like your cheater gun,LOL. They sure do drift less in the wind compared to our 6's and 6.5's.

I recently got myself one too in 7RM. Lovin it!

 

[Skyking]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Nice shooting.

Just finished up my 7saum. Also waiting on a Thunderbeast Arms can for it. Nice to hear yours.

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

What reamer did you use? I've got a 30 inch 7saum built on a Tac 300 action been testing the 162 A-max and bthp's but haven't got to the 180 Hybrids I have sitting here.

 

[D Miller]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good shooting guys!

I like your cheater gun,LOL. They sure do drift less in the wind compared to our 6's and 6.5's.

I recently got myself one too in 7RM. Lovin it!

</div></div>

You will see it make an appearance in you neck of the woods next time i can get up there to Prescott or the Ash fork match.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta989</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What reamer did you use? I've got a 30 inch 7saum built on a Tac 300 action been testing the 162 A-max and bthp's but haven't got to the 180 Hybrids I have sitting here. </div></div>

Standard PTG piloted 7saum reamer. The 180VLD can be loaded to right around 3.2 where the hybrids had to be shortened slightly to around 3.16. Im at work and dont remember the exact OAL off the top of my head.
I didnt want them touching or rammed in to the lands in case you have to remove the round from the camber. Its a PITA when the bullet pulls out of the neck and dumps powder all over the place.

Havent had the chance to chrono them yet but reverse engineering them through DOPE and JBM its looking like they are cookin at around 3070fps with the long tube

 

[jbailey]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Nice looking rig guys and nice shooting as well. Have you guys done any other load work up, especially with H-1000, or is it just w/ H4831sc? I'm building a 7SAUM and was going to start with H-1000. With your long barrel, I bet H-1000 would kick ass in your setup. You might be able to get rid of the minor pressure signs you are getting w/ H4831sc w/o loosing any MV. Just a thought. Any powder selection thoughts you guys have would be appreciated.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

The load with H4831SC is the only one we have tried for now. I ran some Quick Load info and was very curious about H-1000 and Retumbo. I had great luck with Retumbo in my old .300 WM and H-1000 did well in the same rifle.

We will be building a second 7mm SAUM in the near future and I think I'm going to set it up a little defferent and try some of the other powders like Hybrid 100V, Retumbo, Ramshot Magnum and H-1000. I will keep you updated the best I can. Right now were pretty happy with the load we have but we may tweek it in an attempt to improve our 1 mile + shooting.

 

[D Miller]

uninvited visitors

Heres one of our uninvited target poachers taking a piss as seen through the spotter.

 

[PeterPHWS]

Re: uninvited visitors

Lol, now that has to be a first on here ....

 

[crawler97]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Nice looking rig and nice shooting.

 

[Young_Engineer_89]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JFComfort</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The load with H4831SC is the only one we have tried for now. I ran some Quick Load info and was very curious about H-1000 and Retumbo. I had great luck with Retumbo in my old .300 WM and H-1000 did well in the same rifle.

We will be building a second 7mm SAUM in the near future and I think I'm going to set it up a little defferent and try some of the other powders like Hybrid 100V, Retumbo, Ramshot Magnum and H-1000. I will keep you updated the best I can. Right now were pretty happy with the load we have but we may tweek it in an attempt to improve our 1 mile + shooting. </div></div>

JFC,
Can you post any good loads you find on the hide somewhere? I am building a SAUM out of a long action aswell, and I would like to have a place to start from with the loads

 

[jbailey]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Young_Engineer_89</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Can you post any good loads you find on the hide somewhere? I am building a SAUM out of a long action aswell, and I would like to have a place to start from with the loads </div></div>

What powder do you plan on using? I have a file of starting loads from a variety of sources on H4350, H4831sc, H-1000, and Retumbo that I could post if you have interest in any of those powders....

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Young_Engineer_89</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JFComfort</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The load with H4831SC is the only one we have tried for now. I ran some Quick Load info and was very curious about H-1000 and Retumbo. I had great luck with Retumbo in my old .300 WM and H-1000 did well in the same rifle.

We will be building a second 7mm SAUM in the near future and I think I'm going to set it up a little defferent and try some of the other powders like Hybrid 100V, Retumbo, Ramshot Magnum and H-1000. I will keep you updated the best I can. Right now were pretty happy with the load we have but we may tweek it in an attempt to improve our 1 mile + shooting. </div></div>

JFC,
Can you post any good loads you find on the hide somewhere? I am building a SAUM out of a long action aswell, and I would like to have a place to start from with the loads</div></div>

I will happily share any loads that shoot well!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Young_Engineer_89</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Can you post any good loads you find on the hide somewhere? I am building a SAUM out of a long action aswell, and I would like to have a place to start from with the loads </div></div>

What powder do you plan on using? I have a file of starting loads from a variety of sources on H4350, H4831sc, H-1000, and Retumbo that I could post if you have interest in any of those powders....

</div></div>

I think we both would love to see what ya got if ya didn't mind. I've been thinking of playing with Retumbo next.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JFComfort</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think we both would love to see what ya got if ya didn't mind. I've been
thinking of playing with Retumbo next. </div></div>

Roger wilco. Databook with them is at home - will post here later.

 

[Young_Engineer_89]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I was planning on starting with H4350 but I'm willing to try just about anything. Like JFC said any info would be great

 

[steve123]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

JF,

I'm using 70.5 grains of Retumbo,(compressed) in my 7RM/28" and only getting 3040 fps with a 176 grain bullet. I'm guessing that H-1000 would be better for you than Retumbo because of the smaller capacity of 7 Saum but the H-4831 looks to be doing just fine as is. I was surprised you were getting 3070 fps.

 

[gregsjt]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

How is that elite iron suppressor? I think I am going to get one for my 7mm SAUM. That video made it sound stupid quite, but it's hard to judge the sound of a suppressor with any video.

 

[coues7]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Any feeding problems?

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I have a 7Saum built on the Tac 300 action. Its a Shillen select 30.5 inch barrel. I'm running Badger bottom metal and the AICs 300Win mag for my saum and I get slight hang ups where the magazines has 2 slight fingers the fold into the mag. It catches slightly on the shoulder of the brass mainly when the magazine is fully loaded but not so much as you get to the last few shells. I have 19rds through mine of 162 A-max and dumped a doe at 350yds today. I'm running a light load of H-1000 62grs and loading the 162A-max 15thou off the lands.

 

[kennyg]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta989</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a 7Saum built on the Tac 300 action. Its a Shillen select 30.5 inch barrel. I'm running Badger bottom metal and the AICs 300Win mag for my saum and I get slight hang ups where the magazines has 2 slight fingers the fold into the mag. It catches slightly on the shoulder of the brass mainly when the magazine is fully loaded but not so much as you get to the last few shells. I have 19rds through mine of 162 A-max and dumped a doe at 350yds today. I'm running a light load of H-1000 62grs and loading the 162A-max 15thou off the lands. </div></div>

What primer are you using with the H-1000? I am following this thread with interest because my savage 7 SAUM build is nearing completion. I am planning to start with H-1000 and the 180 berger vlds, but didn't know whether to try a standard or magnum primer first...?

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Federal 215m Magnum Match primmers.

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/4,4518.html

 

[jbailey]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

OK, here are the loads that I plan to start with in my 7SAUM (currently waiting on a Manners stock). Note that these loads are based on several sources: several buddies of mine who are F-class open shooters (and the 7SAUM is an absolute beast in that event - almost unfair!), Berger (I contacted Walt Berger and he sent me their data), and lots of internet searching (Accurate Shooter.com 7mm page, this forum, several other forums). Also note that these are for a 2.950" COAL, which is my target (mag feed from a Alpha 300WSM mag in a short action).
<span style="font-weight: bold">
H4831sc (my 1st powder choice)</span>
start: 57.0, with +0.5gr increases in powder up until 62.0grs, expect to see pressure around 61.0.

<span style="font-weight: bold">H-1000 (my 2nd powder choice) </span>
start: 60.0, with +0.5gr increases in powder up until 65.0grs, expect to see pressure around 64.0.

<span style="font-weight: bold">H4350 (my 3d powder choice - this is the current rave of all the F-classers) </span>
start: 54.0, with +0.5gr increases in powder up until 58.5, expect to see pressure around 57.0.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Retumbo (my last powder choice - least amount of data on this powder)</span>
start: 61.0, with +0.5gr increase in powder up until 66.0. No idea on pressure expectations.

I *HOPE* I never get past testing H-1000, as I think the most consistent performers will be either H4831sc and/or H-1000.

Best of luck,
-James

 

[D Miller]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Thank you very much for the powder/load info.

Im going to read up on the 4350 load and see why the Fclass guys are lovin it. 4350 is the staple diet for my 65creedmoor and there's no shortage of it around my house.

At 61gr of 4831sc@ 3.16 oal we are starting to see a very slight ejector swipe.

 

[Zilla]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I had pressure problems with 4350. Got loose primer pockets after 1 firing. Switched to 4831 and the problem went away.

 

[Young_Engineer_89]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Are you using bushing sizing dies? If so what size for the neck? I am planning on ordering my 7mm SAUM dies this weekend.

Thanks guys

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Which brass do you plan on running? Remington Nosler?

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Young_Engineer_89</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you using bushing sizing dies? If so what size for the neck? I am planning on ordering my 7mm SAUM dies this weekend.

Thanks guys </div></div>

YE 89,
Hope this isn't to late, and hope it helps, I run a .312 bushing in my Redding die. Use it for both 175gr XLD and 180gr hybrid, with Remington brass. I fl size every 3 firings and anneal. Haven't found the need to neck turn, accuracy is good out of both guns.
For loads I run;
70gr VV N570
Fed 210M primer
Rem brass
175 touching lands, 3080fps 24" nitrited barrel
180 .005 off, 3020fps 27" barrel

I do have a friend who just switched to Retumbo with great success.

 

[D Miller]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Rem brass, Hornady Custom grade dies(the cheap-o dies). The hornady dies were not bumping the shoulder back at all before the shell holder touched the base of the die. Supposedly there's low profile shell holder to get past this. I just shaved a few thousandths off the bottom of the die until i got a.0015" shoulder bump.

JF'er stupid photo bucket has killed your account

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

When I get mine built I wanna play with a little bit of Retumbo! Sorry about the pictures guys. I have reached my limit on a free photobucket account and have to upgrade. I'll get to work on it when I get back home from shooting today!

 

[Skyking]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I did a 7saum AI a few months ago. Had custom dies built, that the builder screwed up. Now still waiting on new dies from anther die builder. Sorry I don't have any new updates as of resent. Here is the post with some more info on the gun if you care to read. My Thunderbeast Arms 30p-1 went pending on Sep 2nd. Still waiting.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2839238&page=1

My gun has a Bighorn short action with the Alpha mags. I had a reamer built to change the shoulder to a 35 degree just like the 7wsm. Not sure how much I really gained from doing that. Probably should have gone to a 40*. I already have a 7wsm shooting the Berger 180's 2950fps. Thought I would try and get the 168 going fast enough to have a advantage inside 1000 yards of the 180's. I tested 4831SC, H1000, Retumbo, in Remington brass, CCI-BR2 primers, Berger 168 VLD's. I just jammed them +.010 just like my WSM. Each time I moved up to a slower powder pressure signs dropped. Retumbo I think is what I will stick with. I also tried Nosler 300 saum necked down with the same loads. Pressure signs shot way up. Had to stop shooting. Looks like the Nosler brass holds less powder. Once I get my dies back I will have to do more testing.

The here are the fastest speeds, and speeds that shoot the best with the different powders.

4831SC
61g, 2977fps
61.5g, 3108fps, Lots of pressure signs

H1000
65g, 3111fps, Best group
66g, 3146fps, pressure signs

Retumbo
65.5g, 3130fps shot the best groups.
67.5g, 3195fps pressure signs

Left to Right,
7wsm 180 Berger, 7SaumAI 168, 7Saum 168

 

[bward]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

When you shot the 300 SAUM brass how much clearance did the neck have? If you necked them down and didn't turn them it could be the cause of pressure.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

We ran some rounds through LVMikes chrono with my 6.5 CM match rifle, Dane's 7mm SAUM and LVMikes AI tight bore .308 Win. We were surprised that the chrono confirmed the velocity we estimated. 3070 fps ES 6 SD 2!

I was very happy with the velocity I'm getting with my 6.5 CM and 139 Scenars. 2880 fps ES 15 SD 5. LVMikes 155 Sierra loads were cooking! He was getting excellent velocity with his new barrel. He was shooting flatter than me at 975 yards.

 

[hognuts]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Looking forward to getting back out there with you guys and doing some ELR stuff, I will get some more AMAX loaded up for the BMG and we can bang on the elk some more! We need to bring your GPS and try and get out to the 2500+ mark and see what we can do!

 

[Night Hunter]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Great load info guys. My new to me 7SAUM should be here within the next few days, can't wait to get started and get to the range.

This will be my set up thanks to cz550:

Rem 700 long action trued and lapped,pinned oversized lug.
Rock Creek 8.7 Twist M24 26" plus break Chambered in 7RSAUM
Centershot Musclebrake 5/8x24 TPI
Manners T5 with Minnichassis and Badger DBM. 300win AI Mag
Factory trigger tuned 2.5 pounds Trigger is super nice zero creep breaks like glass.
Nightforce 20MOA base
Nightforce 5.5x22x56 NPR1

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Night Hunter that sounds like its going to be a very nice rifle! Post some pic's once its put together!

Hog, yes we gotta try 2,500 yards in the near future! During our most recent ELR/ULR shooting session on Christmas eve the 7mm SAUM is a bonified 2k yard rifle! (2,129.6 yards to be exact)

I have been very impressed with the cartridge/bullet/powder combination.

 

[hognuts]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Nice shooting gentlemen! All I managed to do was possibly wreck Dane's target stand! That silhouette target was giving me the big "F" U!!!

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hognuts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice shooting gentlemen! All I managed to do was possibly wreck Dane's target stand! That silhouette target was giving me the big "F" U!!!

</div></div>

Eh, you had to leave early! We'll beat the hell out of that F'er next time.

 

[DZelenka]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I finally got to the range with a chronograph to test some 7mm SAUM loads. Here are the results.

New Nosler 7mm SAUM brass; 180 Berger VLD; 210M Primer in all loads. .015" into the lands (3.040" OAL). Temperature was 45 degrees.

Retumbo
64.5 gr 2869 fps
65.5 gr 2925 fps .40" @ 100 yards
66.0 gr 2950 fps .36" @ 100 yards

H1000
64.5 gr 2917 fps

Reloder 25
61.0 gr 2781 fps
62.0 gr 2811 fps .566" @ 100 yards
63.0 gr 2890 fps .485" @ 100 yards

I didn't experience sticky bolt lift on any load.

My plan is to play at 300 yards with 65.5 to 66.0 gr Retumbo and seating depth.

The rifle specs are as follows:

Remington 700 LA
Krieger 26" #5 contour; 1:9” twist; 5R rifled barrel
McMillan Remington Classic stock
Burris Zee rings and mounts
Leupold 6.5-20x50mm LRT with standard plex crosshair and M1 turrets
Remington Trigger
Beartooth Products cheek piece

Gunsmithing by Louisiana Precision Rifles

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Do you guys know what reamer was used for your builds? I just ordered a reamer for my saum build from PTG, its a .188 FB and I got the .315nk. Dave said the .315 neck will just require a clean up pass on the brass. Is that a mistake, should I switch to the .317 neck?

Id really rather not turn, was thinking I may get away with a tight neck and no turning, think thats possible?

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Hi i run a .316 neck for a tight no turn neck at .315 you will need to skim the necks.

I use Rem and necked down Norma brass and have won a lot of champiuonships with the 7mm SAUM over 1000 to 1200 yards i usualy use the 175gr MatchKings though they have proved to be better performers throughout the life of the barrel no chasing the lands or altering the loads after the inicial load is developed with the bergers you have to chase the lands and keep adjusting the length.

 

[flounderv2]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Run the .317, it will be more than fine.

 

[Young_Engineer_89]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Has anyone used 189grn Cauterucio bullets with a SAUM? I am looking at trying these out when I get my SAUM.

I was looking for what kinda performance you are getting with loads on these things.


PS I hope this isn't a hijack of the thread.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Young_Engineer_89</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone used 189grn Cauterucio bullets with a SAUM? I am looking at trying these out when I get my SAUM.

I was looking for what kinda performance you are getting with loads on these things.


PS I hope this isn't a hijack of the thread. </div></div>

Are the 189 Cauterucios a significant bump up from the 180gr Berger Hybrids? What if you uniform and point the Berger Hybrids, I bet the two are neck and neck...

My Manners stock came in and my 7SAUM build is at the gunsmith!!! Getting close...