7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

[Young_Engineer_89]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Bryan Litz's book shows an increase of 30 in g1 from the 180s to the 189s. I don't know much about pointing but just have had the idea or trying the cauts out.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Ive heard of people shooting up to a MIL flatter with pointed 180 Hybtids at 1k yards. We haven't done it ourselves yet but look forward to giving it a go.

Our remear has a .317" neck and the rounds are a little sticky on the way out. Might have to try a neck bushing sizer die.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Great thread. For one considering what 7mm to chamber a custom in, why did yall go with the 7saum over the 7wsm? Was it the neck length for keeping the ammo concentric with the long bullets? Better brass? Curious about your reasoning.

 

[VKC]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great thread. For one considering what 7mm to chamber a custom in, why did yall go with the 7saum over the 7wsm? Was it the neck length for keeping the ammo concentric with the long bullets? Better brass? Curious about your reasoning. </div></div>

It comes down to brass. Do you want to pay more for Nosler SAUM brass which is more consistent, but also more difficult to find? Or do you want to pay less for Winchester WSM brass, but potentially need to weight sort or cull?

SAUM is also a little more powder efficient (about 7%) than WSM.

 

[D Miller]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great thread. For one considering what 7mm to chamber a custom in, why did yall go with the 7saum over the 7wsm? Was it the neck length for keeping the ammo concentric with the long bullets? Better brass? Curious about your reasoning. </div></div>
There were several little reasons that pushed me in favor of the SAUM over the WSM.

-Longer neck, better consistency and ability to seat the bullet to a longer OAL.

-better brass, I know a few WSM shooters that grumble about the Win brass. The factory Remmy brass seems to be better.

-i like the 60* neck, same as the 6.5Creedmoor round that has served me so well.

- said to be a more efficient round

-the 6mm br article sealed the deal after reading saum vs wsm.
http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html

 

[Young_Engineer_89]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids


The 6mmbr.com article is the straw that broke the camels back pushing me over the edge from wsm or 284 to the SAUM


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D. Miller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great thread. For one considering what 7mm to chamber a custom in, why did yall go with the 7saum over the 7wsm? Was it the neck length for keeping the ammo concentric with the long bullets? Better brass? Curious about your reasoning. </div></div>
There were several little reasons that pushed me in favor of the SAUM over the WSM.

-Longer neck, better consistency and ability to seat the bullet to a longer OAL.

-better brass, I know a few WSM shooters that grumble about the Win brass. The factory Remmy brass seems to be better.

-i like the 60* neck, same as the 6.5Creedmoor round that has served me so well.

- said to be a more efficient round

-the 6mm br article sealed the deal after reading saum vs wsm.
http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html



</div></div>

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I was really looking at the SAUM, but decided to go with the straight 284 Winchester so I could use Lapua brass.

I'm still kind of thinking maybe I should have done the SAUM instead.

With a 30" barrel, I'm shooting the 180gr Berger Hybrid @ ~2795fps with 50.7gr H4350.
--

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Were slinging the same bullet @ 3070 fps with 61 grains of H4831SC

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I'm OK with 2800+ compared to my 260 Remington, but I was honestly hoping to be closer to 2900fps.

 

[goober]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Might I add all the velocities mean ZIP if one is reading not knowing the conditions these speeds were generally measured in .
Please add the Altitude and Temp at least so one can evaluate the responses with a little more understanding , thanks

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Well when you are measuring the velocity 10ft from the muzzle I dont think there is going to be a HUGE variation in differing weather conditions...

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

In the case of Reloder 17, the ambient temperature may have a significant impact on the velocity.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Good point, I was thinking elevation and other variables, forgot about powder temp with some powders

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I've hit 2968 w/52gr of RL17 in my 284 Winchester, but that seemed too hot.
--

 

[goober]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've hit 2968 w/52gr of RL17 in my 284 Winchester, but that seemed too hot.
-- </div></div>I just loaded 2 batches of catridges using rl17 54gr and 55gr with 180gr bergers for my 284shehane -way to hot ??temp around 75f sea level

 

[goober]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

54.5gr r17 seems ok,speed 2975fps speed -cases wont lar 5 fireings one thinks

 

[Night Hunter]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Finally getting a load together for my 7saum. Got this load to produce 1.997 inches at 500 today. A sidenote, my buddy Chris shot this group with one of his buddies today while I was at work

he sent me pics on my phone, but I am not sure how to get them on here...

berger 180 vld
61.5 of 4831sc
virgin nosler brass
fed. 215 mag primer
velocity 2910

 

[jbailey]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Night Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Finally getting a load together for my 7saum. Got this load to produce 1.997 inches at 500 today. A sidenote, my buddy Chris shot this group with one of his buddies today while I was at work

he sent me pics on my phone, but I am not sure how to get them on here...

berger 180 vld
61.5 of 4831sc
virgin nosler brass
fed. 215 mag primer
velocity 2910
</div></div>

Barrel length and OAL of load? And maybe a temp it was shot at? thanks!

My new 7SAUM is also now in my possession, as are all my loading components. Just need some time for the range. Will post update here as I get them.

 

[Night Hunter]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I'll have to go look up the OAL but the barrel length is 26" plus break and the temp was 55 degrees.

 

[Young_Engineer_89]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

This thread needs a bump, how's the results of the SAUM in a long action looking guys

 

[calinb]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I'm planning to build a 7mm SAUM on a modern Winchester "Classic" controlled-push round feed action with CDI bottom metal but I'm finding it tough to decide on long vs. short action. It looks like the only way to mag-feed a good Berger 180gr. VLD load from even the longest short action mags (Alpha Mag = 2.985") is to throat the chamber a bit shallow but then I read this advice in the 6mmBR.com article:

<span style="font-style: italic">Additionally, the SAUM case has a slightly longer neck. This gives you greater flexibility in bullet seating. With a long neck you can set the throat so the long 180gr VLDs are above the neck shoulder junction, yet you can still seat shorter hunting bullets close to the lands. Additionally, long case necks, some believe, cause less throat erosion than shorter necks. That's not "hard science" but it is certainly a view shared by many experienced shooters. </span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">1. Do the long action magnum DBMs feed 7mm SAUM well?</span>

My maximum mag capacity would drop from 10 rounds in a short action to 5 rounds (or maybe 6 rds with the AM double stack, single feed from Accurate-Mag?) with the long action, but that's not a terribly big deal.

I reading reports of 1:9 and 1:8.5 twist.

<span style="font-weight: bold">2. Is there much chance of a longer/heavier bullet entering production?</span>

It seems to me that 180 isn't as "heavy for bore" as a lot of 30 caliber bullets.

<span style="font-weight: bold">3. Should I go for 1:8.5 or even 1:8 or stick with 1:9?</span>

I'm planning on 28" of barrel to hit the 2950-3000 fps node but I'd go longer, if necessary.

Hopefully, my questions will help to bump this thread too!

I sure would be greatful for help on planning my first long range hunting and entry F-class rifle.

-Cal

 

[kennyg]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

1. Feeding from a mag should not be a problem, feed lips may have to be tweaked slightly.

2. Yes, berger is coming out with a 195 grain bullet, I don't know the release date

3. If you hope to shoot the new 195 bullet, a 1:8.5 is recommended by berger, and I think that would be fine for the 180s too.

Throated long, you should hit your velocity goals easily in a 28 inch tube. Good luck with your build. The 7 SAUM rocks!

 

[calinb]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Thanks so much for the help, kgw43! That settles it for me--a long action is what I need. I did notice that Brownells has a cute little tool that's even calibrated for tweaking feed lips for various cartridges. I'll be ordering a 1:8.5 barrel and hoping to do well with both the 180 and upcoming 195s.

Between the other posts here and Mike's help at PTG, I'm sure I'll get setup with the right reamer too. I can't believe that I didn't have time to stop by more booths at SHOT and ask questions, but I'm busy launching my own business too. Hopefully, I'll have time to work on this by the time all the parts come in. Again, the info here is very helpful and thanks!

 

[steve123]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

FYI...Every once in a while Accuracy International does a run of 10 round 300wm mags. They are lengthy but I can still get down prone on the bipod without it touching the dirt.

 

[calinb]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FYI...Every once in a while Accuracy International does a run of 10 round 300wm mags. They are lengthy but I can still get down prone on the bipod without it touching the dirt. </div></div>Cool! Do they keep a waiting list or can you pre-order?

 

[Some Day]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Whats the barrel life on the 7SAUM.

 

[steve123]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

They might be in stock at various places.

http://milehighshooting.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=detail&id=530996&product=200&pageid=67

 

[Papagrizzly]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Very Nice!!

I like how the whole system looks and works. One of my favorite cartridges.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Loving this thread. I think it has pushed me over the top to switch from the 284 to the 7saum.

--I have a surgeon long action and DBM, with the 300wm ai mags...i would just need to bend the feed lips out on the mag a little to get it to work then?

--I was planning a 27in barrel on the 284 but could i go 26in and still reach 2900 with the 7saum?

--Any idea what the 7saum could push the new 195 gr Berger out at? If the .407 BC is correct, if you could get 2800fps then supersonic to 1800yds is a reality. Not sure if the saum could get it to that speed or not. I have no info on bearing surface length.

--Has anyone shot out there 7saum barrel yet, if so what did you get out of it?

If I can get at least 1500 out of the barrel I think im going to have to switch.

 

[copper91]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Couple questions for you 7SAUM shooters as I have a surgeon mag bolt face LA begging for a barrel:
* what freebore you running with the reamer to keep bearing surface above neck/shoulder junction?
* I'm thinking of a 9twist -- will this be good choice for either the 180's or say the 162amax?
* .317 neck?? anyone running tighter and getting away with no turning...

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Copper91</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Couple questions for you 7SAUM shooters as I have a surgeon mag bolt face LA begging for a barrel:
* what freebore you running with the reamer to keep bearing surface above neck/shoulder junction?
* I'm thinking of a 9twist -- will this be good choice for either the 180's or say the 162amax?
* .317 neck?? anyone running tighter and getting away with no turning... </div></div>

I am running a 1:9 and a .3178 neck and have no problems with necking down 300 SAUM brass. My freebore is 177

the 1:9 handles both the 162s and 180s extremely well from my experiences.

With my reamer I am running my 180s at an overall length of 2.920 and my 162s at 2.845

I am however going to add a little more freebore to my rifle so I can seat the 180s a little further out ans eventually play with the 195s making its way to the market place.

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">--I was planning a 27in barrel on the 284 but could i go 26in and still reach 2900 with the 7saum?</div></div>

I am running a 26 inch barrel and throwing 180 Berger hybrids at 3014fps I have thrown them as fast as 3050 but was a little to hot for my step up.

 

[copper91]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

How much are you going to add to that freebore then??? I plan on necking down norma brass as well so 317 should be the ticket.
Would like to try 195's as well but think the same as others here that you will probably need 8 or 8.5 twist for them to run right but maybe not... I think I will run a 9..
Seems like most guys running 28" plus tubes,,, wonder if I would get good velocity out of a 26",, I run a can on everything so like to keep overall barrel length at or under 3 feet..lol

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Copper91</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much are you going to add to that freebore then??? I plan on necking down norma brass as well so 317 should be the ticket.
Would like to try 195's as well but think the same as others here that you will probably need 8 or 8.5 twist for them to run right but maybe not... I think I will run a 9..
Seems like most guys running 28" plus tubes,,, wonder if I would get good velocity out of a 26",, I run a can on everything so like to keep overall barrel length at or under 3 feet..lol </div></div>

Well i am going to have it reamed out to as close as the 220 I can..(177 and 220 are the two most popular for the SAUM)I will work with my smith and report back what he was able to increase it to.

As I stated i get good velocities out of the 26 inch barrel and being it is such an efficient case not sure there is any need to go beyond 26... I am not sure what velocity you are looking for but even at 24 inches you can run a 180 grain at over 2900 fps second and if you put that speed and the BC of the bullet into a drop chart, its still very impressive...if your looking to smoke 3000fps you may want to think about going to the biggest reamer and than running a 28 inch type barrel

Personally I will be happy eventually runnning the 180s around 2950.. because the ballistics are still impressive, and at these speeds I am not running them that hot.

 

[copper91]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Perfect.. Thanks for the info... I was in between posts when you posted your tube length... Thats right where i want to be but will go with fps where its most accurate of course...

good stuff,,, appreciate it...

Time to order a reamer i guess...

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Thanks all. Ok...ran some Stability numbers today and at my AO (around 800') it looks like the 195s will need a 1 in 8 unless it is hot out to ensure the stability factor is above 1.4 as Bryan recommends. Don't have my notes in front of me but I will post them in the 195 thead.
My concern is that if you go 1 in 8, will you still be able to shoot the 162amax, which is a cheap but awesome bullet? At 3000fps the amax would be up to 270,0000rpm and the saum could probably push em faster. When do they blow up?
Could download them I guess....

 

[calinb]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They might be in stock at various places.

http://milehighshooting.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=detail&id=530996&product=200&pageid=67 </div></div>
Thanks, steve123! Pricey, but I'll have to budget for two of 'em!

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I had a few extra minutes this afternoon and sent some 180s at my steel plate at 750yds this afternoon The wind was horrible 8-10mph and gusting up to 35-40mph. Only 3.9Mils from my 100yd Zero these 180s sure do shoot flat hope to get some groups tomorrow if its decent.

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

The Rifle
Stiller Tac 300
Shilen 1-9 Twist 30.5 long
A-5 non sniper fill
Jewell trigger
Badger bottom metal.
Hensoldt 4-16x56 FF Mil/Mil
Badger rings
Harris
Tab gear rear bag
Load
180 Berger Hybrids
64gr H-1000
Federal 215M
Nosler brass.

 

[D Miller]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta989</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Rifle
Stiller Tac 300
Shilen 1-9 Twist 30.5 long
A-5 non sniper fill
Jewell trigger
Badger bottom metal.
Hensoldt 4-16x56 FF Mil/Mil
Badger rings
Harris
Tab gear rear bag
Load
180 Berger Hybrids
64gr H-1000
Federal 215M
Nosler brass. </div></div>

Nice setup!!

I hope to get out early tomorrow morning and run the 7Saum with the nosler brass. The remmy stuff made for some difficult extract and ejects.

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I ordered a match reamer from PTG and the Remington brass didn't always chamber. But I haven't had any problems with the Nosler. Has anybody taken the Norma 300 Saum brass as a cheaper alternative and necked it down? Since Nosler is 2$ each and the Norma can be had for 1$ each.

 

[nobiman2]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Thank's for all the great info, look's like I have finally found the right forum!

 

[Rthur]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

This is sort of off topic but here goes. I'm looking to build a 7 saum hunting/elr rifle with the surgeon wsm "short action" and seekins wsm dbm. They advertise a 3.100 mag length and loading port. I was wondering if anyone had gone this route and if they were satisfied with the results? I understand you can't get the 180s seated all the way out. Any help would be appreciated.

Rthur

btw- this is for a 7saum

 

[VKC]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rthur</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is sort of off topic but here goes. I'm looking to build a 7 saum hunting/elr rifle with the surgeon wsm "short action" and seekins wsm dbm. They advertise a 3.100 mag length and loading port. I was wondering if anyone had gone this route and if they were satisfied with the results? I understand you can't get the 180s seated all the way out. Any help would be appreciated.

Rthur

btw- this is for a 7saum </div></div>

I went a similar route with a 7mm WSM surgeon action and alpha mags which have shorter coal than seekins. I had to notch the feed ramps, but am very happy with the results.

 

[Rthur]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Thanks for the info vkc. Do you have any of the specs on your rifle? What was the reamer used? What velocity are you getting with the 180s or your chosen bullet? What col can you load to? What barrel length do you have? What twist rate is it? How much jump are you loading for?

thanks Rthur

 

[VKC]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Rthur,

surgeon RSR action
rad rapid brake
28" #17 hv taper melonited deep spiral flutes
1 in 8.5" twist
McMillian A5
180 Berger VLDs hunting bullets seated touching with room to jam
Alpha WSM mags
2930 fps
1/2-1/3 moa

RWS gunsmithing did rifle for me, you can look him up on this forum and ask him about reamer.

I'll get back to you about coal.

 

[D Miller]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta989</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ordered a match reamer from PTG and the Remington brass didn't always chamber. But I haven't had any problems with the Nosler. Has anybody taken the Norma 300 Saum brass as a cheaper alternative and necked it down? Since Nosler is 2$ each and the Norma can be had for 1$ each. </div></div>

I use Nosler 300 saum brass and neck it down to 7mm. It is just over a buck per case instead of $2. Its stupid simple and quick, I am the worlds laziest reloader and I wont complain.

A package of 180hybrid Saum food just arrived so I need to get it back out there and have some fun.

Im also looking in to a set of Ivy 150moa mic adjustable rings to really stretch it out and enter in to the Ashfork 2500y match.

 

[RTO]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I finally got my 7 SAUM finished and loads worked up. I have been watching this thread with great interest. I decided to have PTG make a 7 SAUM AI with 40 degree shoulder.

7 SAUM AI
Surgeon 591 WSM
Seekins dbm with 3.16" ID
180gr Match King
67.6gr H1000
COAL 3.00"
5 shot group .571" at 300 yards
3050fps
SD-1
ES-2
DA was 3000
temp was 87
no signs of pressure

Also found another node at 3104fps with the 180 MK's but ES was around 14 so I decided to keep it at 3050.
Slight primer flattening at 3100fps.

6.2 mil at 1k

 

[VKC]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

The internal OAL of wsm Alpha mags is 2.985".

 

[gregsjt]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

RTO,

Did you have to modify the surgeon to work with Seekins bottom metal?