7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

[RTO]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

gregsjt, Yes, I had to mill out about 100 thou off the feed ramp and about 50 thou on the bolt stop to allow the bolt to pick up a round. The Ackley 40 degree shoulders havent been a problem and feed flawlessly.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">H4831sc (my 1st powder choice)</span>
start: 57.0, with +0.5gr increases in powder up until 62.0grs, expect to see pressure around 61.0.

<span style="font-weight: bold">H-1000 (my 2nd powder choice) </span>
start: 60.0, with +0.5gr increases in powder up until 65.0grs, expect to see pressure around 64.0.

<span style="font-weight: bold">H4350 (my 3d powder choice - this is the current rave of all the F-classers) </span>
start: 54.0, with +0.5gr increases in powder up until 58.5, expect to see pressure around 57.0.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Retumbo (my last powder choice - least amount of data on this powder)</span>
start: 61.0, with +0.5gr increase in powder up until 66.0. No idea on pressure expectations.

</div></div>

Bump.

I finally got out to range to pressure test and chrono my above loads. Only ran into pressure on the H4530 load at 58grs (sticky bolt lift and extractor ring). The top MV's (chrono 14' from muzzle) for H4831sc and H4530 were all around 2900fps from my 26" Krieger 9twist, OAL 2.950", 90* temp. H-1000 was doing 2850 at the top end. Barrel is brand new (only 20rds thru it on this data) so these MVs are likely to change. My chamber is reamed for the 180gr Berger Hybrid at 2.950".

I had a very smart guy (Bohem on this forum) tell me add a few grains to your top H-1000 load and run Retumbo. Any other Retumbo/7mm RSAUM fans????

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">H4831sc (my 1st powder choice)</span>
start: 57.0, with +0.5gr increases in powder up until 62.0grs, expect to see pressure around 61.0.

<span style="font-weight: bold">H-1000 (my 2nd powder choice) </span>
start: 60.0, with +0.5gr increases in powder up until 65.0grs, expect to see pressure around 64.0.

<span style="font-weight: bold">H4350 (my 3d powder choice - this is the current rave of all the F-classers) </span>
start: 54.0, with +0.5gr increases in powder up until 58.5, expect to see pressure around 57.0.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Retumbo (my last powder choice - least amount of data on this powder)</span>
start: 61.0, with +0.5gr increase in powder up until 66.0. No idea on pressure expectations.

</div></div>

Bump.

I finally got out to range to pressure test and chrono my above loads. Only ran into pressure on the H4530 load at 58grs (sticky bolt lift and extractor ring). The top MV's (chrono 14' from muzzle) for H4831sc and H4530 were all around 2900fps from my 26" Krieger 9twist, OAL 2.950", 90* temp. H-1000 was doing 2850 at the top end. Barrel is brand new (only 20rds thru it on this data) so these MVs are likely to change. My chamber is reamed for the 180gr Berger Hybrid at 2.950".

I had a very smart guy (Bohem on this forum) tell me add a few grains to your top H-1000 load and run Retumbo. Any other Retumbo/7mm RSAUM fans????

</div></div>

Yeah wait to you get about 100 rounds or so down the tube...your MV should increase. Mine started to get really good velocitiies just after I cracked the 100 round mark. That or my chrono started giving me better numbers but I always verify my speeds on steel and make sure the dopes line up with the velocity my chrono gives...and its always pretty close...never perfect but directionally correct.

 

[Barney88PDC]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

What bushing are y'all using with Nosler brass?

What is a loaded round with a 180 Berger VLD measure with Nosler brass?

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barney88PDC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What bushing are y'all using with Nosler brass?

What is a loaded round with a 180 Berger VLD measure with Nosler brass? </div></div>

As far as the dies I am using the Forester full length sizing die on the brass. I was using the Hornady dies but the quality of their dies are questionable at best.

The length of the bullet will vary depending on the reamer used when your gun was created. In my gun the smaller reamer 177 was used, but some in this thread used the bigger 220 reamer creating more freebore so there will be a big difference to what they can seat their bullets out to and what I can seat mine out to.

I run mine at 2.920 OAL

 

[Barney88PDC]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I should have been more specific. What is the neck diameter of a loaded round with Nosler brass measure.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I finally got a couple loads for my DTA SRS, 180 gr SMK with 61.0gr of RL-22. It shoots right at 3000fps out of my 24" 8.5 twist SAC built Bartlein. I am so in love! this thing is gonna be alot of fun.

Like rows of teeth in a shark's jaw..........

 

[T302]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

RTO,

I was wondering what your barrel length is on your 7mm SAUM?

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barney88PDC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I should have been more specific. What is the neck diameter of a loaded round with Nosler brass measure. </div></div>

Measure the neck of <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">your</span></span></span> loaded round and deduct .002" and .003" from it, Order those bushing sizes. The .3178" reamer was designed for the 300 SAUM Nosler/Norma Brass. Loaded, the necks are around .315", your looking at a .312" & .313" bushing.

Tony,
I've seen you talking about having your throat bumped out to .220" from .177". FYI, aftet 100+ rounds your throat may be out to .187" or more. If your shooting 180's at 3,000+ fps do you really think moving the throat will help. What do you expect to gain from the move?

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Hey William...

I hope things are well man.

For me it comes down to two things:

1) More freebore will hopefully allow me to fix my feeding issues with the 162s

2) More freebore will allow me to seat the 180s out further to use more of the case capacity yet stay out of the lands. Even if I don't gain performance I should get equal performance with less pressure.

Right now with my 180s I am limited to seating them out to about 2.920 to were I am still way in the case and just out side the lands. so although I am getting good velocity, I am in a decent amount of pressure. With the current reamer and the 180s I am forced either way into the case or into the lands, so i can't escape pressure unless I sacrifice speeds, but speeds the gun should be capable of hitting without hitting the amount of pressure I am currently in. Guys who are shooting with more freebore are using 1grn more powder, getting more velocity, and not in as much pressure as I am. I figured if I built it on a long action why not go ahead and give myself more freebore to play around with powder charges and seating depth.. so comes down to I am limited more than I have to be right now.

Since I am running 338 lapua mags with the 162s and the current reamer .177...I am again limited to how far out I can seat my bullets and when shooting comps with this gun it fails me in the speed rounds because the bulltes nose dive since it has got allot of room up front before getting chambered...so again if I give myself more freebore I can seat the bullets further out and I should hopefully be able to eliminate this issue. right now I can seat them out to about 2.840 and that is in the lands.

So for me the smaller reamer limits my capabilities with the long action build to where the larger reamer allows me to take full advantage of it...

And not sure .220 is the magic number, when I go to eventually have it done, I may want to add a little more.

 

[squin]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I apologize for hijacking the thread, but I have had great results with 180gr Hybrids as well. My rifle is built on a BigHorn short action so I'm limited to 2.96 OAL using Alpha Type 3 Mags. I went short action simply because I had already ordered a KMW sentinel stock in short action 4 months before I decided to build a 7mm RSAUM. I was worried about the shorter OAL and giving up so much case capacity. I did some research using QuickLoad and some chats with Dave at PTG and it looked like I could make it work. I rolled the dice , no pressure problems or compressed loads. It has worked well so far.

59.2 gr N560
2990fps
82 deg
grouped 5 shots at .216 MOA at 100 yds
grouped 10 shots with 1 flyer at .338 MOA at 400 yds.

Looking for a cheaper powder I found:
62 gr Magpro
2830 fps
82 deg
grouped 5 shots .173 at 100 yds
grouped 10 shots .464 MOA at 400 yds

Rifle specs are:
7mm RSAUM
BigHorn Short Action
28" Krieger 1-9 tw #17 HV
Custom PTG reamer with short free bore of .054 and .318 neck ground for 180 Hybrids seated to 2.96 OAL
KMW Sentinel short action stock with integrated mounting block
Timney 510 trigger
TBAC 30P-1 Suppressor

 

[jonthomps]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Excellent thread and crazy good shooting. The head shots on elk is nuts! Might have to add a 7mm to my stable.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Tony,

I just didn’t want you to get caught up in the "Magic Free Bore" debate or drink that cool aide. 7mm 180's at 2,900+ fps is pretty strong regardless of COAL. 3,000+ is in the higher pressure area and really not needed. It's all relative and pressure / velocity run hand in hand. The higher the velocity, the higher the pressure. Don’t get too caught up in a number as your target velocity, load for an accuracy node that produces an acceptable velocity.

Just for conversation, when we compare the .177" FB reamer to the others it's only .011" shorter than the .188" and .043" shorter than the .220".

1/16" is equal to .0625"
1/32 is equal to .03125"

Looking at the measurements we see that the .220" FB reamer is barley over 1/32 longer than the .177", hardly worth the money it'll cost to have your smith extend the FB in your current rifle and chances are you‘ll see no appreciable accuracy or velocity gains.

If your looking to try the new FB length at some point this is what I'd recommend you do. Build a dummy cartridge with your favorite bullet at the COAL you desire to use. Have a reamer ground to match those measurements and use it to chamber your new/next barrel. Don’t worry too much about .188 or .220, let your dummy cartridge dictate the free bore and run that instead.

Sometimes the Free Bore discussion gets carried away and the cool aide gets passed around like a 1980's prom queen. There's no magic number here where FB's concerned.

#1. Make a dummy cartridge with your bullet/coal of choice
#2. Have a reamer ground to match
#3. Chamber barrel
#4. Run it hard
#5. Order new barrel/repeat

Good luck and good shooting

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tony,

I just didn’t want you to get caught up in the "Magic Free Bore" debate or drink that cool aide. </div></div>

Thanks William.

No, I am definitely not drinking any cool aide around the subject. I speaking through my own personal experiences with the cartridge and spending hours upon hours on load development and shooting this gun to truly understand what this caliber can do, as well as talking to many other guys who own and reload for their 7SAUMs. Centerfire1 added more freebore to his 7SAUM in the spring and his results were pretty impressive with the velocity increase he recieved and was able to do so while staying out of high pressure

I agree that if you are in the mindset that 2900 is all you need than the reamer used on my gun is fine, but if you are looking to maximize performance (with accuracy) then there is a need to put more FB into the gun eventually, because like I mentioned in the prior post above, the bullet at max length to where I am not in the lands is still way into the case creating more pressure than neccessary and If I try to seat them out further I am touching the lands with in .005 were I am at. Now I am in the lands and way into the case still. The bullet can't get out of its own way sort of speak. So in my opinion the smaller reamer is far from ideal for the 180s, sure it can be used, but its not ideal as you WILL have to sacrifice performance. In my opinion the .220 with .043 more throat, although still may not be the ultimate answer, would still be a better option then the .177 as .043 is quite a bit of room when seating bullets in or out.

I agree completely with having a reamer built for the next barrel, but your original question was "what do I feel I will gain?" and the answer still remains it will allow me to maximize the ability of the caliber, and the other reason is to fix the feeding issues with the 162s that I currently have.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I'm looking forward to getting into my 7SAUM this fall once I get my summer matches done. Thanks to everyone posting intel in this thread.

I agree with wnroscoe - just get the 180 Hybrid moving at a decent speed that shoots bugholes and let the BC do the downrange work! Awesome stuff!

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I agree with wnroscoe - just get the 180 Hybrid moving at a decent speed that shoots bugholes and let the BC do the downrange work! Awesome stuff!</div></div>

Again, if you are ok with putting a crutch on your gun there is nothing wrong with using the smaller reamer. I shoot matches with my SAUM as well and I would much rather throw an accurate bullet at 3000fps at extended ranges than 2900 for the wind drift factor alone. ASC we can have shots out to 1400yds and the winds can be upwards of 15+ miles an hour at times...i'll take the 3000fps all day over 2900 there. You can't get to 3000fps with the .177 reamer without being at the ragged edge of the pressure game. Guys using larger reamers are there without being on or near the ragged edge. So again,I am not saying it will NOT work...but challenge the fact its ideal? why settle for the .177 when there are better options and it is proven over and over again including in this thread.

180 is a long ass bullet and the SAUM is a short ass case...so why not give yourself more throat to seat the bullet out to where you can gain accuracy and velocities without the pressure?

just sayin...

Eitherway you will love the caliber.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 25MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you are ok with putting a crutch on your gun there is nothing wrong with using the smaller reamer. </div></div>

A 180 Berger at 2,900 fps is hardly a crutch on a rifle. I have a client in CA that shoots to 1,760 yards with his SAUM, same reamer, 180 Bergers. 2,950 fps and it drills. He's had groups under .5moa at 1,760 for conversation.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Velocity will never make up for poor marksmanship fundamentals.</span></span></span> If you're implying that I put a crutch on your rifle/chamber, that’s BS.

Simply saying that everyone has room for improvement where marksmanship is concerned. Velocity will never fix that for us.

Good luck to you.

 

[RedGoat]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Velocity will never make up for poor marksmanship fundamentals.</span></span></span></div></div>

I don't think he was trying to make up for poor marksmanship with the added velocity, but augment his current marksmanship.

Correct me if I'm wrong - If a rifle is able to shoot a bullet faster with less pressure, being to seating the bullet out of the case further due to more FB. Then wouldn't this in-turn increase brass and barrel life?

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 25MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you are ok with putting a crutch on your gun there is nothing wrong with using the smaller reamer. </div></div>

A 180 Berger at 2,900 fps is hardly a crutch on a rifle. I have a client in CA that shoots to 1,760 yards with his SAUM, same reamer, 180 Bergers. 2,950 fps and it drills. He's had groups under .5moa at 1,760 for conversation.

Velocity will never make up for poor marksmanship fundamentals. Implying that I put a crutch on your rifle/chamber is pure BS.

Good luck to you. </div></div>

William...seriously!

This how stuff always gets twisted up. I never implied anywhere in my thread that "wnroscoe" purposely put a crutch on my rifle. You asked a question I gave my feedback. Sorry if you don't approve or some how I offend you with facts.

If I knew what I know now...damn right I would had ordered another reamer and sent it to you. But I ordered this rifle a LONG ass time ago and there wasn't nearly as much info on this caliber as there is now... so competeting and playing around with the caliber you learn alot as well as talking to others doing the same.

And again, never said the gun wasn't accurate becuase it is...but kudos to some dude in Cali for shooting .5 groups at a mile...that really has nothing to do with what I stated are the faults to the smaller reamer. With what I am suggesting he could get there faster and flatter. I am all ears if you want to share you experiences reloading and shooting the SAUM? instead of attacking the scenario.

Bottom line is the 7SAUM is fully capable of shooting over 3000+fps (VERY accuratley) with a very usable load if it is chambered to do so...why the hell wouldn't you want to have that ability? or share that fact? I personally would love to be able to compete with those types of velocities but do to high pressure signs I can't, so to me I consider that a "crutch" since guys with the same calibers have no issue doing it. Never said i am pissed about it just was eventually going to get it setup the way I prefer. Its all I ever said.

Good luck to you as well...

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Tony, there’s no problem on this end, I'm not offended about anything and it's all good. Hell, you can even call when ever you get ready and we'll shoot the shit. It just seemed that the crutch statement was directed at a chamber I cut. The Cali. guy was just mentioned to show that that length FB wasn’t all bad.

I did go back and add this because I thought you'd take the marksmanship statement as being directed at you which it wasn’t <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">"Simply saying that everyone has room for improvement where marksmanship is concerned. Velocity will never fix that for us."</span></span>

I stand by my velocity statement, although it's not directed at anyone, it is true.

At the end of the day a man has to get what he wants and what makes him happy regardless of what anyone else thinks. If FB "X" is what a guy wants that’s what he should get, period.

This topic made me do some research and ask a few questions concerning the 7SAUM and freebore. I spoke to Dave Kiff at PTG as he receives feed back from numerous builders/shooters on a daily basis. Dave provided me with the following information. It seems that the old style 180 hybrids did require a FB of .202" to .230" depending on how a guy wanted to set his COAL up. The new style 180 hybrids are running at .169" to .188" free bore for the same results.

One particular builder/shooter likes a FB of .230" so he can shoot out of or burn out of the "Sweet Spot". He sets his barrels back every 2-300 rounds. Ironically, he requested that reamers made for his clients be .030" to .050" shorter than he gets so their throats last a bit longer.

Another very well known builder sent in a dummy and a reamer to be re-ground to the dummy FB. The dummy was seated to what he thought was .230" FB. After measurements were taken the dummy was at .167" FB. .188" was suggested but the reamer was re-ground to .167".

It's been proven time and time again that the SAUM is a race horse but, it does like the taste of throats and eats them like candy. If you want the .220" FB I say get after it. The shorter FB will let you chase the lands for a while longer but hey, it's your parade, be happy.

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This topic made me do some research and ask a few questions concerning the 7SAUM and freebore. I spoke to Dave Kiff at PTG as he receives feed back from numerous builders/shooters on a daily basis. Dave provided me with the following information. It seems that the old style 180 hybrids did require a FB of .202" to .230" depending on how a guy wanted to set his COAL up. The new style 180 hybrids are running at .169" to .188" free bore for the same results.
</div></div>

Now we are back on track ...William this is great info and by any chance do you know how to determine the older style hybrids or when Berger made the switch? I am assuming I could call Berger, but this is info I was unaware of and would like to run these first

And come on be honest...you really don't want me calling you...LOL

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Tony, I really dont know when the numbers changed as I dont run the hybrid 180's. Thats why I speak to Dave from time to time because of the continued feed back he gets from accross the nation. I try to draw from that data base when I can as it's really impossible to gain that much knowledge on our own.

You should call him sometime and strike up the conversation. You might be surprised.

A custom ground reamer and 1000 bullets from the same lot should be in your future, thats really the only way to go for what you want.

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Thanks William...I will definitely give him a shout.

It was great catching up

Talk to ya soon.

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

This thread is coming along nicely! Good info on the cartridge. Keep it coming guys.

 

[Barney88PDC]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

So is H1000 the go to powder for this caliber? I have Retumbo and H4350 on hand as well. I want to shoot the 168 and 180 Hunting VLD Bergers as my Elk / Mule Deer rig. Going to limit myself to 800 yards because of flight time (right at 1 second). I can't predict what the animal does between pulling the trigger and the bullet arriving. It looks like the 168's have less drop in those ranges and the lower SD should ensure lesser penetration which for a really close shot would be better than a pass through with minimal expansion due to the higher SD of the 180's.

Thoughts?

 

[lvgolfer962]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Great info in this thread

We just buttoned up my 7mm saum and I ran out to the range and put a few rounds through her

Only had enough day light to shoot a few groups and 63.3g of h1000 with 180 vld at 2.985 was the best out of the few I got to try.

I hope to get out this weekend with a chrono to see how fast their going out of my 31" krieger.

By lvgolfer962 at 2012-07-20

By lvgolfer962 at 2012-07-20

 

[JFComfort]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lvgolfer962</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great info in this thread

We just buttoned up my 7mm saum and I ran out to the range and put a few rounds through her

Only had enough day light to shoot a few groups and 63.3g of h1000 with 180 vld at 2.985 was the best out of the few I got to try.

I hope to get out this weekend with a chrono to see how fast their going out of my 31" krieger.
</div></div>

Keep Dane and I updated on how the load development goes. Looking forward to seeing you connect at 2k yards with your new 7 SAUM!

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barney88PDC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So is H1000 the go to powder for this caliber? I have Retumbo and H4350 on hand as well. I want to shoot the 168 and 180 Hunting VLD Bergers as my Elk / Mule Deer rig. Going to limit myself to 800 yards because of flight time (right at 1 second). I can't predict what the animal does between pulling the trigger and the bullet arriving. It looks like the 168's have less drop in those ranges and the lower SD should ensure lesser penetration which for a really close shot would be better than a pass through with minimal expansion due to the higher SD of the 180's.

Thoughts? </div></div>

I tested H4350,H1000 and H4831sc...and I ended up shooting H4831sc

H4831sc out of my gun gave me the best accuracy node and velocities with the lowest standard deviation and extreme spread.

H1000 was accurate but quite a bit slower. So I went with best of both worlds and stuck with the H4831sc.

I use the Federal 210M primer. And I use the H4831sc with both the 180 hybrids and 162 A-max bullet.

 

[D Miller]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 25MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">



I tested H4350,H1000 and H4831sc...and I ended up shooting H4831sc

H4831sc out of my gun gave me the best accuracy node and velocities with the lowest standard deviation and extreme spread.

H1000 was accurate but quite a bit slower. So I went with best of both worlds and stuck with the H4831sc.
</div></div>

While its just an observation and not tested personally, the H4831sc looks like great all around but the H1000 seems to shine in the longer barred 28+" rifles with the 180gr vld/hybrids.


I want to pick up some H1000 and retumbo for my 29" barreled 7Saum

 

[VKC]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I've observed similar. Barrel length from 22-26" try H4831sc. Barrel length of longer than 26", try H1000. Retumbo is good in 28" or longer barrels, but I found that I had to compress loads to get the velocities I wanted so I went with H1000. Of course, the quoted barrel length recommendations are somewhat arbitrary, as others' experience may vary slightly, but should provide a guideline.

 

[25MAN]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D. Miller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 25MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">



I tested H4350,H1000 and H4831sc...and I ended up shooting H4831sc

H4831sc out of my gun gave me the best accuracy node and velocities with the lowest standard deviation and extreme spread.

H1000 was accurate but quite a bit slower. So I went with best of both worlds and stuck with the H4831sc.
</div></div>

While its just an observation and not tested personally, the H4831sc looks like great all around but the H1000 seems to shine in the longer barred 28+" rifles with the 180gr vld/hybrids.


I want to pick up some H1000 and retumbo for my 29" barreled 7Saum
</div></div>

Good stuff Dane...yes I should have stated that I am running a 26 inch barrel. Being the H1000 is a slower burning powder than the H4831sc it makes sense it would work well out of the longer barrels

 

[lvgolfer962]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Got some chrono-ing done

31" barrel

63.3g H1000, Federal 215, and 180 berger vld
2975 avg and it was a tight spread 4-5 fps

64.2 same as above
3050 avg

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lvgolfer962</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got some chrono-ing done

31" barrel

63.3g H1000, Federal 215, and 180 berger vld
2975 avg and it was a tight spread 4-5 fps

64.2 same as above
3050 avg

</div></div>

I should chrono my load. 215M 64Gr H-1000 180B ergers 30.5 Shillen Select.

 

[eracer]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I finally got a couple loads for my DTA SRS, 180 gr SMK with 61.0gr of RL-22. It shoots right at 3000fps out of my 24" 8.5 twist SAC built Bartlein. I am so in love! this thing is gonna be alot of fun.

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv323/coldboremiracle/Snapbucket/66D6CEFE-2.jpg

Like rows of teeth in a shark's jaw..........

</div></div>GREAT pic!

 

[eracer]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I will make this thread one of my home pages, so that I can read it every morning with my coffee.

I have a Defiance Rebel X-med. single-shot action (3.20" max. OAL) sitting in my safe, next to a CG-Jackson trigger and a Sightron 10-50x60 LRMOA scope, all waiting for a Bartlein 30" Heavy Varmint 1:8.25" 5R barrel and an as-yet-undecided-upon stock.

I have a few boxes of 180 VLD's, and some Remington brass as well.

Can't wait to get this 7mm SAUM together and start shooting.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Have any of you guys tried the 180gr SMK?

The BC is right there with the Bergers, but the SMK is nearly 0.1" shorter. Since I'm in a short action, Alpha mag length, my powder capacity is limited by my OAL. So in theory, I could get some more powder behind the SMK and move it a tad faster than the Bergers.

Plus there is a big deal on them right now in the For Sale section, 1100pcs for $250 shipped, $0.23 a pc. At that price I jumped on a box.

If nothing more, Berger ain't the only choice

 

[drkebs]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Ive ran them in my 7mm saum with good, but not bug hole results. Im doing a bit of load work this weekend and will post any good results relative to grouping and distance if found with the 180 smk.

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta989</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lvgolfer962</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got some chrono-ing done

31" barrel

63.3g H1000, Federal 215, and 180 berger vld
2975 avg and it was a tight spread 4-5 fps

64.2 same as above
3050 avg

</div></div>

I should chrono my load. 215M 64Gr H-1000 180B ergers 30.5 Shillen Select. </div></div>


Took 11.3 mills to get to 1460yds today.

 

[lvgolfer962]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

That's very solid beretta, have you chrono-ed that load yet?

Im still back and forth on whether to push them harder. I've only got dope for a few yardages so far. I know environmental factors and weather play a part in everyone's dope, but do you have anything close to mine for comparisons sake.

960yd 5.7 mils
1600yd 14.2 mils
1800yd 16.2 mils

Btw, what brass are you running with that load?

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

My chamber is tight enough that not all the Remington brass will always chamber But the Nosler works great. We chronoed it yesterday on a cheap chrono and it spit out. 3030 3005 3015.

 

[D Miller]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I ran a few rounds loaded with H1000 through the saum this weekend just to test for pressure signs. I only had 9 cases preped and primed so loaded up 3 each at 63.5, 64, 64.5 and then hit the road for our weekend practice.


Shot with 1x fired 300Nosler brass necked down to 7mm

63.5- No pressure signs .75" group
64- ejector swipe on 2 and one with a slightly sticky bolt lift. 2 stacked and a flyer.75" off center
64.5 - group sucked at over 1" and 2 of them were hard bolt lifts.

I think I'm going to practice my art of load theft and start with LVGOLFERS 63.3 and go from there. Ill see if we can talk mike in to coming out with his chrono so i have some viable data to share.

Welcome back from 3 days of Ban Camp JFComfort for apparently pissing off Rob.

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I necked down 50 Nosler 300 saum Sunday. Shot one with 64gr H-1000 with the 180s I also had Ejector wipe.

 

[lvgolfer962]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

My nosler had bolt swipe on 63.3g of H1000. I ran rem brass up to 64.5 or .7 Before i had any signs of pressure. My rem brass is 219-222 g and my nosler is weighing in at 233-235g, so it looks like less is more with the nosler.

I can probably get my hands on a chrono if you need one D.Miller

 

[D Miller]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Ty and a few of the guys were going shooting yesterday after noon so I brought all my gear to work and went to play afterwards. Finally got some chrono data for the 7saum


results were from a 29.5" barrel, 4000 asl, 102F, 180 hybrids

<span style="font-weight: bold">62.5gr H1000 @ 3" oal</span>

2920
2921
2933
2911
2928

<span style="font-weight: bold">63.3gr H1000 @ 3" (lvgolfers load)</span>

2941
2954
2943
2959
2953


<span style="font-weight: bold">65gr Retumbo @3.1"</span>
3011
2996
2996
2996
2996
yes, 4 duplicates, I have witnesses

]

I had a slight swipe on one of the cases but the Retumbo looks promising out of the long barrel 7. I will be loading up some more retumbo loads and testing it out on paper in the very near future.

 

[beretta989]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Loading up some 175Smk now with Retumbo to try out against the 180 Bergers. The 180s are staying on full size IPSC steel at 1460yds rather easy. But I can't hit jack at 1820!!

 

[TannerGun]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Hey JF, will you paint my scope like that for me?

But seriously, that looks cool. Who did it?

7SAUM/180 Berger is a nasty, nasty combo.

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

Beretta could it be that the 180s are not transitioning well to subsonic? You may get better results with the SMK in the transonic region.

 

[Papagallos]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

JFC,

If I fly to Las Vegas, will you let me shoot your 7mm SAUM? Your rifle looks sick and it shoots great.

 

[wvlapua]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

JFC,

What does she weigh ready to shoot..no ammo?

 

[jbailey]

Re: 7mm SAUM + 180 Berger Hybrids

I had my 7 SAUM out at a local fun match this past weekend. I somewhat randomly selected my load of 62.0grs of H4831sc, the 180gr Berger Hybrid and estimated a 2900fps MV (I'm in a short action/26" barrel). Pretty much ZERO load development work, didn't even have a solid 100yd zero. First time shooting it past 100yds and the barrel has less than 20rds down the tube.

Wow, this cartridge shots. It was putting bullets into the same splash on steel at 895!