7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

[KPK]

Has any of you guys tried this? What kind of velocity, etc are you getting? I'm getting a SAUM built and was thinking maybe a .284 as well on a long action for the 180's, but is there going to be that much gain? Let me know what you think.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

KPK,
If your going with a Berger style bullet seated to the lands I'd go with a long action if possible.

I have have two 7mm SAUM's, both short actions, and if you chamber a round and decide not to fire, you'll end up pulling the bolt. Not a insurmountable problem, but a pain none the less.

As for velocity, I get 3160fps with a Berger 180 hybrid, 70gr VV N570, Fed 210m primer.
The gun has a Lawton SA 7500 dual port, 30" McGowan barrel.

But I have three friends with saum's, the velocities vary from:
Lawton 7000, 22" Lawton barrel, 2950fps, Norma MRP-2 powder,
Lawton 7000, 22" McGowan, 2960fps, VV N570,
Rem 700, 32" Broughton, 2910fps, VV N570.
Why the 32" Broughton isn't faster I don't know???

We shoot these guns to a mile with relative ease.
Hope this helps.
Personally I'd pick the SAUM over the 284.
Miles

 

[Shireman]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

i went through this same dilema about 6 months ago. Went with the SAUM on a long action. I run the 180 VLD's at 2900. I got them to 3100, but they shot best at the 2900 mark. 27" barrel and H4831sc. Havent tried the hybrids. 600 rounds on her so far.

 

[justshoot]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

I went with the .284 on Remington SA with 32" Barrel. Got 2960 fps with 55 grains H4831sc with Berger 180 VLDs. You have to single load and pull the the bolt back about 1/4" past open to eject a loaded round if needed.

 

[Kyshooter]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

Milo-2,

Why the SAUM over the WSM? Is one friendlier to the SA guns than the other?

Thanks

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

Kyshooter,
It is more a local favorite than anything. And having three people readily available to share load data with, it was just easier.

I did do some reading on the 6mm Br site, on the 7mm page and the saum seemed to have a better following than the WSM.

I recommended it over the 284 Win in my first post. I myself wouldn't hesitate running a WSM, choosing the 7 over the 270 just because of bullet selection though.

I actually was going to build a 6.5x300 WSM, had the Win 270 brass, two Krieger barrels, dies, everything, but decided on a second 7 saum instead.

As far as being friendlier to a SA, I would have to say it would be a wash. I would recommend a long action myself, I can't eject an unshot round without pulling my bolt. If I was shooting 162gr Amax's, it would not be an issue.
Hope I clarified myself, or this helped.
Miles

 

[Kyshooter]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

Miles,

I appreciate the info, it will help a lot. I imagine the 168 Berger/JLK offerings will be about as SA friendly as the Amax's.

Jason

 

[pinzmann]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

I'm running a 7 WSM with 180 VLD'S in a GAP built Rem SA. Getting 2960fps with no problem. Its mag fed with modified AI mags.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

Using a SAUM or WSM in a LA might work, but there isn't really that much to gain from it. Most people run these cases in a SA and get basically the same speed as the guys running them in the LA. While it might give you more room to seat the bullets out in a LA, there are reamers that will work in a SA with the long 180gr bullets.

 

[braso]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

I ran a 7saum on a Borden SA, I used a wyatt box for hunting, but if I was to do it over I'd use a detachable Alpha mag. I could only get to 2880 with the Berger 180 before showing presure signs

 

[mcfred]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

Well, the short magnums were made for short actions. I think you'd be better off with another inch of barrel than another inch of receiver.

 

[KPK]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

Thank you guys for the info. I guess I forgot about this thread I posted!

I've read alot lately and it seems like they don't have to be running 3100 to make the 180s perform. I think around 28-2950 I'd be in good shape, what do you think?

While we're all here what barrel length should I go with? I've got a barrel that will finish at 26", but thinking 24" would be nicer??

Also are you all running a brake on them? If so which one?

I've got the barrel (brux #5) and Surgeon RSR WSM ready to go! Taking it to my smith in the next few days I hope!!! MCM A3 should be here in the next month I hope as well...

 

[average_freak]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

how is the accuracy with the N-570? I'm building a 7/300 WSM w/ a 27" rock and I haven't really heard about anyone using this combo for one of these stubby 7 mags. 3100'ish is where I'd want to be, could care less about barrel life any info would help.

 

[KPK]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

Can you guys post your loads with the 180 in a short action? With COAL:?

 

[okiecat]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

I'm running the seek ins bottom metal with the mod mags, can go as long
As I want and loaded ones will eject too. Running retumbo with 26" @2900

 

[Donald]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KPK,
If your going with a Berger style bullet seated to the lands I'd go with a long action if possible.

I have have two 7mm SAUM's, both short actions, and if you chamber a round and decide not to fire, you'll end up pulling the bolt. Not a insurmountable problem, but a pain none the less.

As for velocity, I get 3160fps with a Berger 180 hybrid, 70gr VV N570, Fed 210m primer.
The gun has a Lawton SA 7500 dual port, 30" McGowan barrel.

But I have three friends with saum's, the velocities vary from:
Lawton 7000, 22" Lawton barrel, 2950fps, Norma MRP-2 powder,
Lawton 7000, 22" McGowan, 2960fps, VV N570,
Rem 700, 32" Broughton, 2910fps, VV N570.
Why the 32" Broughton isn't faster I don't know???

We shoot these guns to a mile with relative ease.
Hope this helps.
Personally I'd pick the SAUM over the 284.
Miles </div></div>

Wow N570 is pushing the 180gr in your 7mmSAUM at some impressive speeds, I thought this powder might be a bit slow for his case but it seems not with your shooting results, will have to give it a go myself.

 

[Dirty D]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there are reamers that will work in a SA with the long 180gr bullets. </div></div>

With a 180 Berger or 175SMK is the base of the bullet still in the neck or sticking down into the body of the case? eta: When seated to an OAL of 2.8"

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

The boat tail and some of the bearing surface will certainly be in the case if you load it at 2.8".

With the 7WSM case, the ogive of the 180 Berger is barely above the neck of the brass when loaded to 2.8." To get the bearing surface out of the case and into the neck I need to load my 7WSM to 3.100+ inches.

Jeffvn

 

[Dirty D]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The boat tail and some of the bearing surface will certainly be in the case if you load it at 2.8".

With the 7WSM case, the ogive of the 180 Berger is barely above the neck of the brass when loaded to 2.8." To get the bearing surface out of the case and into the neck I need to load my 7WSM to 3.100+ inches.

Jeffvn </div></div>

Thank you, the more I read about the 7mm bullets the more I want one and the 7SAUM is looking like the direction I want to go. I have been cruising the funstores looking for a long action Savage and this confirms a long action is the way to go.

 

[VKC]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

I don't think you need a long action for a 7mm WSM or SAUM, just use Alpha or Seekins mags and you've have plenty of room. Enough to avoid compressing powder, and with powder capacity to get your velocities to 2950fps, which should be around the accuracy node depending on you rifle.

I'm shooting a 7WSM in short action with Alpha mags, seat my bullet jammed or touching, and have plenty of room to reliably feed rounds from magazine.

 

[Inline6]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

I have an FN SPR shooting a 7WSM 168 Bergers with a 24" barrel 3200fps was not a problem. I backed it down due to most match rules (nothing more than 3100).

Play with the seating depths of the Bergers, you can jump them a long ways and get awesome performance.

 

[JLR]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Inline 6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an FN SPR shooting a 7WSM 168 Bergers with a 24" barrel 3200fps was not a problem. I backed it down due to most match rules (nothing more than 3100).

Play with the seating depths of the Bergers, you can jump them a long ways and get awesome performance.</div></div>

What powder were you using to get 3200?

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McFred</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, the short magnums were made for short actions. I think you'd be better off with another inch of barrel than another inch of receiver. </div></div>

The short magnums were made to run in short actions with factory hunting rounds - not 2 inch long 180 grain target bullets.

 

[Inline6]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Inline 6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an FN SPR shooting a 7WSM 168 Bergers with a 24" barrel 3200fps was not a problem. I backed it down due to most match rules (nothing more than 3100).

Play with the seating depths of the Bergers, you can jump them a long ways and get awesome performance.</div></div>

What powder were you using to get 3200? </div></div>

RL22

 

[808joel]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

I'm also wanting to build a 7SAUM on Surgeons WSM Action fed by Seekins WSM DBM. Unfortunately, Seekins stop making their WSM DBM which would of allowed me to seat 180 Vld's loner (3.1"). Since there's no one else that makes an extended SA Mag. I'm now continplating which way to go, Short or Long Action.

 

[T302]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

I bought a 591 WSM action thinking I could use a Seekins bottom metal. I also found out that they stopped making it. I Don't know if there are any other options out there. I guess I will probably run an Alpha magazine.

 

[mcfred]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winddrift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since there's no one else that makes an extended SA Mag. I'm now continplating which way to go, Short or Long Action. </div></div>

Well, the alpha mags are a bit longer internally than the AI mags without that spacer in the front. This gets you to 2.97-ish COL. I don't know of a long action magazine made for the WSM, but maybe the regular ones work fine? Do they hold 10 rounds? I've never looked into it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The short magnums were made to run in short actions with factory hunting rounds - not 2 inch long 180 grain target bullets. </div></div>

It works for me. It depends some on how the chamber is cut, and you can cheat a bit by moving the bolt stop back some and using the slightly longer mags, or lengthening the internal magazine to whatever you want. Of course if you're not trying to fit a magazine then you can single load with no problem. I have a 510 WSM built on an XR100 that I shoot 3.5" long rounds in.

I'd still rather have another inch of barrel than receiver. These rifles are plenty long as it is, and I think my next project will be a bull pup type build.

 

[squin]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

I backed my way into a 7mm RSAUM on a short action. I went with a short action due to already having a short action KMW Sentinel stock and Bighorn short action on order. I actually ordered the stock and action thinking I would build another 260. After reading all the praise of the 7mm RSAUM the bug bit me, and I decided to role the dice. AJ at Bighorn set me up with the correct bolt face and I was off.

I had PTG grind me a custom reamer for a Berger 180 gr Hybrid loaded to 2.96 in RP 7mm RSAUM brass. My chamber has a short free bore of .054 and gives me about .015 jump to the lands with the Hybrids.

QuickLoad indicated N560 and Magpro would be good powder options for a round loaded to 2.96. After some load work I found the following 2 loads worked well. Loads are not compressed and show no pressure signs.

59 gr N560
Berger 180 Hybrid loaded to 2.96 OAL
CCI #250 primer
RP brass weight sorted and necks cleaned up
2990 fps across an Oehler
.338 MOA 10 shot group at 400 yds.

63.3 gr Magpro
Berger 180 Hybrid loaded to 2.96 OAL
CCI #250 primer
2880 fps across an Oehler
.312 MOA 5 shot group at 400 yds.

So a short action can work with a short free bore. That said if I were to build again I would go with a long action. I give up a lot of valuable case volume loading to 2.96.

Build specs:
Bighorn short action
KMW Sentinel short action with integrated mounting block
Krieger #17 HV 1-9 tw finished to 28"
Timney 510 trigger set at 2 lbs
Alpha type 3 mag
March FX 5-40x56 scope
Badger rings
Thunder Beast 30P-1 suppressor



Correction: I just notice I typed 2.6 instead of 2.96 in a couple of places. My OAL is 2.96. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[808joel]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

Squin,
How do you like your KMW Sentinel Stock? Was the wait long? I'm also leaning toward a Long Action build for the same reasons. The consensus around here is to go with a long action versus short.

 

[squin]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

I absolutely love the KMW stock. I will likely place an order for a 2nd in the near future. Yes there was a long wait, but no longer than the wait for any other high end stock. Some things are simply worth the wait, KMW is one of those things. Order it, forget about it, and be suprised when Terry calls you to say its ready.

If I were building a 7mm RSAUM from scratch I would go long action. I'm helping a friend build a sister to my rifle in long action now. I only went short action because I already had a short action stock on order. Being able to load long is a plus. Short action is working great for me, but why give up the case capacity if you don't have to.

 

[808joel]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

On your sister build, what dbm and neck dia. will you be using? I heard of necks as tight as .309, .316 for a light neck turn or .320 for no neck turn. I've also read to tight of a neck and and not enough neck clearance can cause problems.

 

[squin]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

KWM stocks come with DBM. We will use the same reamer with a .318 neck, but lengthen the free bore with a unithroater. Looking back I could have easily gone with a .317 neck, which is what Dave at PTG originally suggested. I did lightly clean all my necks. If I recall the unturned brass was right at .316.

 

[808joel]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

What's the length of your free bore now? There's a few reports of people having great success with .188 free bore using 180vld's.

 

[squin]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

I don't believe you can reach the lands with a .188 free bore loading 180 Hybrids or 180 VLDs to mag length in a short action.

My free bore is .054".

If you already have a short action you can make the 7mm RSAUM work well with the 180 Hybrids. If you are building from scratch go with a long action to make better use of case capacity.

 

[808joel]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

.188 free bore is using a long action. Did you see any pressure spikes with your .318 neck? I was told some experience high pressures earlier than expected during load development and opening their neck from .317 to .319 fix the problem.

 

[squin]

Re: 7mm SAUM with 180 VLD on short action??

No pressure signs with the N560 and Magpro. I have not experimented much with H1000 and H4831SC because they are a little slower velocity at the same node in my gun.